Do you think the reopening up of public places is going to back fire?

up vote

I get where you are coming from, but at the same time we are individuals and we have to decide for ourselves what is best.

Refusing healthcare? This isn't a plague, man, it's super-flu; there will be and there are plenty of beds. The US has a surplus of doctors and nurses. If you throw a rock, chances are you will hit a doctor. I know 10+ doctors in my life personally; do you know how many barbers I know? Zero. Do you hear people going "Man I wish we had more doctors and nurses!" ? No, you hear them going "I wish we had more face masks and ventilators".

Fearless? I think you're adding ego to a situation where there is none. I have yet to hear people say "I'm not afraid of COVID", it's more like "I don't want to let COVID run my life".

And no, people did not cause unemployment, COVID did. I know it's sort of a chicken and egg situation--do we stop working and beat COVID then go back to work? Or do we keep working and endure COVID?

I lived with a nurse (a few, actually) and through them knew even more nurses, and let me tell you something: while I have the utmost respect for their job, they tend to play both the victim and hero during a crisis. "Oh I got rashes on my nose from masks" or "Oh I worked 16 hours today". Boo fucking hoo. They also get paid a lot better salary than most people who work those same hours in other fields.

Obviously I am letting my frustration get the better of me but I am pretty sold on the notion that COVID is not the problem, we are. So unless the whole human race is going to suddenly change their tune and get their shit together (hint: we won't), we might as well just keep marching towards hell like we have been since we started practicing agriculture, religion, and establishing cities.

*I'm a few drinks in at the time of this post so I will probably regret what I wrote, but at the same time in vino veritas, n'est pas? Hahahaha.

I don't think we should be beligerant in opening things up, like forego facemasks and stuff. But there has to be a middle ground where we can gradually start going about our lives like normal while still being cautious.

I mean, for Pete's sake we are still going grocery shopping. Surely we can do other things.

i've seen companies use adverts to sell products by virtue signaling the virus, like apple and budwiser lol lots of people never stopped working, they are "essential" they cant claim UE if they quit.

Not everyone has to be scared of the virus, you can be scared, that's your right. Go get a bubble suit or something, don't try to shame people for not being scared lol

Just stay home.

I think its selfish to try to make people close down their businesses just because your scared, when no ones making you leave your house, but you want to make it so others cant. Do what ever you want, i'm not trying to control your life.

@jeezers:

Jeezers, I apologise, I am not trying to shame you nor control you and my prior note above was aggressive. I am sorry dude!

I can fully appreciate your eagerness to go back to work, earn a living and provide for your family. You're right to feel unhappy about businesses being shut down and there will be many bankruptcies on the horizon, both business and personal. I would add that the financial strain will also destroy some families and it would alter the course of children's lives for the worse.

I was lucky at work, I was transferred from the Projects Team to the S-Curve & Data Teams so I could work from home (frankly speaking not a lot of work). My entire team was disbanded and absorbed into other teams. I do pop into my office once a week since I returned to HK but I am careful and the office is practically empty.

The initial lockdowns are an attempt to slow down the rate of transmission so that fewer people contract the disease and hospitals can cope.

That is why practically every government has initiated lockdowns. Economies rise and fall, they're called business cycles and the world was due for a decline anyway. The US Federal Reserve was cutting rates well before COVID19 in Q4 last year.

The alternative is a massive loss of life, much greater than the figures now. Greater economic decline, higher unemployment and even the possibility of a breakdown of society.

My hopes are the same as yours, we and everyone else simply want COVID-19 to go away and in the absence of effective therapeutics and a vaccine, social distancing is the best method to minimalise transmission.

And if your country still has a high rate of transmission then re-opening without an effective test and trace capability, social distancing, hand washing and wearing facemasks will lead to unnecessary deaths.

Am I scared? Well frankly speaking yes I am. I have an elderly father 81 years old, a wife and a daughter. I am scared that I get infected and my time with them is cut short, I a scared that they are infected and our time together is cut short. I am scared if I contract COVID-19 and infect them and/or other people.

So yes I am very careful. I only go out when necessary, I don't wear a bubble suit but I do wear a face mask outdoors, I wash my hands at every opportunity and carry hand sanitizer.

Anyhow that is my rant, stay safe and again sorry for being overly aggressive earlier.

And I do hope your grandmother stays safe!

@jangles: That's a selfish attitude. We decide for ourselves. So you put others at risks because you want to decide during a pandemic for yourself. Only thing I see is the US has a major problem for two reasons. No leadership from the federal government and selfish attitude from the citizens. Granted they are the minority...….but they are a loud minority.

Word in republican circles is this was all fake anyways. With that understanding, how could reopening businesses possibly backfire?

@kadin_kai: Its all good man i didn't take anything you said personal

Just saying i disagree on some of it. You and your family stay safe as well man.

i don't usually watch prager u stuff but i found this to be very interesting. Thought id share it with you, check it out when you get a chance, tell me what you think.

You just linked Prager U. That source is completely bogus and 100% invalid.

Please find a better one showing Lockdown vs Virus harms. Because all the real data or medical expert statements I can find shows that fast re-opening without proper testing makes the virus worse. And that no lockdown would have made it exponentially worse.

• https://thehill.com/homenews/coronavirus-report/497322-fauci-warns-of-really-serious-consequences-if-nation-reopens-too
• https://www.businessinsider.com/covid19-model-predicts-40-million-people-could-die-without-interventions-2020-3
• https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/04/22/coronavirus-deaths-overreaction-quarantine/
• https://publicintegrity.org/health/coronavirus-and-inequality/federal-documents-more-than-300000-likely-to-die-if-restrictions-are-lifted/

@zaryia: I dont care if you dont like prager U, I seriously dont care, he makes several great points

It doesn't matter if I like it or not. It's literally fake and conflicts with medical experts and studies.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/prageru/

@zaryia: stop throwing a hissy fit over prager U, people can listen and decide for themselves

It's already backfiring. In so many states cases are continuing to go up. But since this is America, it's better to die on the job than to stay safe and healthy.

I think the lockdown only delays the inevitable. Eventually EVERYONE will get Covid-19 whether through person to person contact, airborne particles, infected mail/food delivery, vaccines etc. I'm willing to bet at least 25% of people in the US already have CV-19 antibodies in their system. Many people exhibit zero symptoms at all. It will make it's rounds just like the Cold/Flu and highly likely it already made it's rounds here in the US last year, based on the high number of people who had flu like symptoms but tested negative for flu last year. And now many doctors are misdiagnosing people by claiming new Covid-19 cases without testing to verify. Be careful but don't be freaked out like CNN and MSNBC would have you be with their sensationalism.

The battle cry of the Youtube and social media educated. This is why experts are derided and people insist that their 9/11 truther claims are unassailable.

I'm not throwing a hiss fit. I'm simply rebutting your post with facts.

I'm also trying to warn posters or lurkers who might accidentally watch Prager U and get tricked. It's literally fake.

They have mislead millions on climate change and history (Southern Strategy), and now this Virus. It's dangerous disinformation.

This word salad goes against known data. If not for the lockdown exponentially more people would have died due to easing stress on our medical system. States that open too early have spikes in cases by the way.

You're just wrong.

@mattbbpl: neither you or zariya have argued one point said in the video, your just ragging on it because they have a right leaning bias vs a left leaning bias like msnbc ,vox, cnn, wapo. You know the shit you like.

@zaryia: The only reason there's a recent spike in cases is because more test kits have just recently become available. And many people test positive for antibodies without ever exhibiting any symptoms. Staying home is fine. But eventually someone from the household has to go shopping or have something delivered to the home, putting everyone in the household at risk of infection. Opening the country is the best thing to do. People can wear masks and wash hands. Staying at home quarantined forever is not an option no matter how much Dems wish it was.

Only with the proper testing. As stated by Medical Experts and studies. Who are better than you.

1. Straw-Man. They never said this. But I'm glad they did champion it resulting in saving countless lives. Without SAHO we would be in deep doo doo. All while POTUS said it would go away by April and has been egging on the low IQ protests.

2. Dems didn't wish SAHO. Medical Experts and facts did. Guidelines did. Good they did though as explained above.

The GOP has been wrong about this every step of the way.

You forgot this part,

Still, she called the increase in her state “concerning” and noted that it comes as restrictions are being eased. “When we see this kind of an increase in case counts, we also know that we are easing restrictions and folks are moving around more,” she said, urging residents to wear face coverings, keep six feet apart and wash their hands as restrictions lift.

Dude.

The title of the video is "Which will do more harm, The Virus or Lockdown".

We already know the answer to this. The Virus. I'm not citing MSNBC, VOX, CNN, WAPO. I'm citing Fauci, CDC, Department of HHS, and studies (the Imperial College of London.) My links merely quote them....I'm not linking OP Eds.

Prager is literally fake news.

Fauci and the CDC have only expertise with the virus, as far as the economic repercussions from a nationwide lock down and how that will effect 10's of millions of people, they really don't know shit in that area. With the rising unemployment and the amount of people who wont have health insurance anymore. Fauci openly admits he is not an expert on the impacts of the shutdown economically or mentally, he is only talking about stuff in regards of slowing the virus. Not what the impact of 1/4 of the country put on UE, being quarantined, or the rising level of poverty will do to the country or people at large.

By the way Prager is no different that 99% of the sources you post constantly on this forum, its a media outlet, that writes stories, does audio and video commentary, and promotes through their website and other social media platforms. They are just another media outlet. I find it hilarious you post CNN like its spoken word and then have the nerve to have a panic attack at flipping prager u lol

One of my favorite points he brings up in the video, (which you obviously did not even try to watch).

The LA times writes as their headline "Extreme poverty may be pandemic's biggest toll"

But that's not true, extreme poverty that follows is not the result of Covid 19, but the result of our response to Covid 19.

That's very much true and yet much of the MSM will never even suggest the thought.

Media literacy is in short supply these days.

It... is... maddening...

You have every right to ignore the video. That doesn't mean you should try to stop others from viewing it because you disagree with the source. Or, you could spend 30 minutes and watch the video before presenting your well-sourced rebuttals to the points made in the video.

Not all of the deaths that are happening during the pandemic are due to infections, and to ignore that and say you would rather stay locked up in your home for the next year or two (the amount of time it could take to create and distribute a vaccine) may be something you are fine with, but others may disagree.

Why are people voicing false dichotomies of "Either opening unsafely or staying locked down until a vaccine is developed."

Yes. We've wasted time developing a test and trace program. Yes, we're still fighting creating that at the federal level - a self destructive act. But we can! And we should! Our testing capacity is much closer to what we need than what it used to be. States need a positive test rate of 10% as a maximum, and ideally 5% or less. From what I can see, only about 15 states fall short of that target. We need to continue to push that down and implement the tracing part.

Prager U, a slight step above Bovine University! (But seriously people use that shyte as a source?)

No one should encourage people who are malleable to listen to falsehoods and decide for themselves. Why are you cons so anti education?

Actually Prager U is massive disinformation and fake news. Not meme fake news, like literally.

So I actually would strongly advice people stay clear of it any time it is brought up here. It is actually worse than Info Wars, because they present themselves as legitimate. Hell even the name lol.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/prageru/

According to medical experts and institutes, if anything, the deaths are currently under-reported.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/cdc-us-covid-19-death-toll-likely-higher-reported

No one said this.

Yikes, someone here actually admitted to watching PragerU? Embarrassing.

If you did, don't be embarrassed. Everyone makes mistakes at first.

I wouldn't quote that channel when trying to fact check someone, but I wouldn't tell someone that they better not dare listen to them either. Let them make their own choice.

As for medical experts, people may be arguing why it's not a good idea to lift the lockdown, but people are also arguing why it can be harmful keeping the lockdown going indefinitely as well. Things like routine medical checkups for conditions unrelated to the virus to legitimate mental health issues being ignored because certain people want to keep everyone at home indefinitely over this stuff. I already mentioned women and children being victims of abuse and being stuck at home with their abusers as another example of why it's harming some people.

I legitimately wonder what you want to happen, never leave home until we are 100% free of the virus? Originally, the goal was to flatten the curb. Lifting some of the restrictions doesn't mean the police are going to point a gun at people more vulnerable to the virus and make them go out. We don't need to do the exact same lockdown in a place like NYC that we need to do in a place like Montana, and I don't understand why some of you act as we do.

@ad1x2: well said

Excuse me for not replying to your post since you didn't quote me directly.

Other posters are saying we need to stay locked down indefinitely and anybody that wants to lift the lockdown too early are greedy people that want millions of vulnerable victims to die. This all or nothing response to the pandemic is probably more harmful than good. No, I am not saying we need to fill sports arenas again or something similar, but some of the restrictions are not making sense.

I'm not against voluntary mass testing. However, I can tell you that there will be people out there that will refuse to be tested for whatever reason, and I'm not sure how you are suggesting we deal with people that refuse to be tested. Test them at gunpoint?

trump was right from the start. Shutting down the economy was dumb, just let the free market deal with it. In the end, he played a gamble, and lost his marbles. The numbers coming out, the projections for death tolls must have made him lose his balls. But looking at Sweden, their numbers without a full shutdown aren't too bad relatively speaking.

But Healthcare workers and researchers always peddle worst case scenarios, instead of taking into account human behaviors. On top of that, the data was just predictions without concrete evidence backing it up. The death rate from Corona was initially 5%, but now we see its closer to 1%.

They can refuse to be tested, but that will increase the spread rate and the case numbers.The numbers need to be watched, and if they start to exceed the thresholds manageable by test and trace programs then stay at home orders will need to be re-implemented until they go back down below those thresholds.

We can't stop morons from eschewing masks and distancing guidelines, but that comes with trade-offs - either in subsequent measures becoming necessary or additional deaths.

What "I want" to happen is merely just whatever the medical experts, studies, and institutions are recommending.

Not open too early and increase testing if you really want to completely open asap. Fortunately they were right about closing in the first place and I'm glad several politicians begrudgingly listened to them. It saved MANY lives. Now the opening part is clearly complex and there is no easy answer. Ofcourse 1-2 years would be way too much.

And yes it depends on the area of course.

@zaryia: "The GOP have been wrong on this every step of the way". WRONG. Early into this pandemic when Trump called for a travel ban and closing the borders, Dems called him a Xenophobe and threw a hissy fit. They never give Trump credit. But it's okay because people see through the liberal BS and come Nov a lot of libs will be crying again..

The medical experts are better than Trump and better than you.

You were wrong. He was wrong. Facts are facts.

Why should Trump get credit for that when he royally fucked up both before and especially after that one thing?

And even that one thing he fucked up on so I don't even know how that counts,

The Facts on Trump’s Travel Restrictions

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel-restrictions/

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-snowballing-china-travel-claim/

They were unprepared, they didn't heed the warnings, they were wrong about it ending quickly and only being 15 cases, they were wrong about the vaccine, they were wrong about hydro, they were wrong bout SAHO orders, they were wrong about testing, they were wrong about opening too early, etc.

This will go down in history as one of the biggest presidential blunders of all time no matter WHAT you say. The damage is done.

It's @jeezers I'm 90% sure he's a fakeboy.

Trump was very much wrong from the start. If we didn't do SAHO the death toll would be exponentially higher.......

Everything indicates it was the best move. There is no data set showing otherwise unless you can oblige me.

trump didn't stop travel in January when he was alerted about the virus. He didn't stop trave from Europe which is the strain in the US. He didn't even stop all travel from China.

If you actually bothered to read the studies (STUDIES, not a youtube INFOWARS) you would know the potential death toll from the Economic impact won't be higher than the potential death toll of not doing SAHO.

How you far right guys are STILL wrong about this Virus after being wrong about it since January at every turn is amazing.

This demonstrably false. WOW.

@LJS9502_basic: See? You won't give Trump any credit. You just whine and moan and it's pathetic.

Agreed. We should make sure Trump has credit for making everything worse.

You always say this when i say anything you disagree with. You just resort to calling me a "troll or fakeboy".

"i don't usually watch prager u stuff but i found this to be very interesting. Thought id share it with you, check it out when you get a chance, tell me what you think."

"i don't usually watch prager u stuff but i found this to be very interesting. Thought id share it with you, check it out when you get a chance, tell me what you think."

I posted this to show to another poster, what did i say about the video zaryia? I just told someone to check it out. I did not post this as some sort of "FACT CHECK" to anything.

Its Dennis Prager just giving his opinion on several different topics in regards to the lock down & the virus. I found it interesting. I appreciate hearing people out with different opinions. This was not a "news story" video.

I am very much aware PragerU has right leaning bias. 100% aware, they work with candace owens, ben shapiro, and michael knowles.

CNN, NYT, WaPo, MSNBC all have strong left leaning bias. So what? You like those sources because they confirm your bias.

and thats ok! everyone has a personal bias on something. I think a big reason you always get triggered by me is because we have drastically different views on the current state of the media. (also i'm pretty sure we are very different politically, i see myself as more of right leaning libertarian) Seeing how much you like democrats like joe biden and hillary i'm guessing you fall more in line with the establishment left. That also explains to me why you put so much trust into corporate news like CNN and MSNBC.

Let me put it this way Zaryia.

When you post 3 links from CNN, MSNBC, and VOX. I look at that the same way id look at someone who posts 3 links from Daily Mail, Brietbart, and FOX. Its like watching someone confirm their bias live every time. Its not a discussion or an exchange of ideas.

But no, this video is not an article or news story, its political commentary and you don't have to watch it.

I'm big on free speech, freedom of thought, and the exchange of ideas no matter how "controversial" you may see them to be.

Some of the ideas here could be seen as "controversial" i share the ideas hoping it will spark a discussion. I like to keep it interesting, I also like to see ideas be challenged.

You should be happy I do this, If some of us dont throw some objectivity out there once in a while "political gamers" would just be an orange man bad circle jerk coupled with CNN polls and an NPR article shared once in a while. Maybe that's what you want though, so i dunno!

That doesn't mean one must entertain every tinfoil hat conspiracy theory or even give equal credence to them. Keeping an open mind does not mean a disregard of reason.

@Vaasman: Did you give Trump credit for making you and millions of other smug libs cry a river on Nov 2016?

If US had the same death rate as Sweden, US would be close 170K deaths by now I think...

I posted facts. You are a trump fanboy and apologist who ignores facts.

Critical thinking is another skill in short supply these days.