Do you think that society's tolerance of drug use has increased too much?

First of all, let me clear up that my question is not regarding law enforcement. I am aware that law enforcement to suppress use has been problematic at best and counterproductive at worst.

But i mean people's views regarding the health risks associated with drug use.

By association and comparison with the 2 most common legal psychotropic drugs: alcohol and cigarettes, (not counting caffeine here since it's not really harmful) a large segment of the population has managed to convince themselves that a least a subset of the illegal ones are mildly or not at all harmful. By this I mean (marihuna, mushrooms, LsD ). More so, a minority of the population seems also convinced that even hard drugs are manageable (cocaine, meth, opioids, etc)

But there is significant data showing that even long term use of marihuana (the poster child of harmless drug use ) causes noticable cognitive degradation, hormonal imbalance and increase tendency towards mental health problems.

My own personal point of view, is that generalized drug use has significantly exacerbated already existing problems like poverty, low social mobility, homelessness, organized crime, social classes academic achievement gaps.

And personally, as a south Americans i consider that drug use in developed countries has both financed and armed criminal gangs in our societies, greatly reducing quality of life and safety in my continent.

I wonder if the state should not spend more resources educating people on the harmful effects on using drugs, much as it has successfully do it with cigarettes.

This could be, together with very careful (and location restricted) legalization, both reduce consumption of drugs and reduce organized crime.

Also, again as a south American, communication should emphasize how drug use, harms our societies, since the problems that we get here by having gangs financed and armed by consumers in developed countries are truly terrible.

Not nearly tolerant enough. We still stigmatize drug users, treat them as "the other", when they clearly do not have issues with substance abuse.

And when they do happen to have substance abuse issues, we often decide to judge them. Not help them.

I think we (the US) should follow the Portuguese method; legalize pretty much everything, offer tons of help for abusers. We will see a spike during the initial honeymoon period like we do whenever a state legalizes cannabis, but it will fall off.

Ideally we would produce our own drugs instead of importing them as well, leading to a better economy and more wholesome (less toxic) drugs, while also hurting foreign criminal enterprises (i.e. Mexican cartels, etc).

@mrbojangles25: Agreed.

The only way the US would legalize everything is if it made a ton of money. I think minor drugs should be decriminalized. But hardcore drugs are not something I think should be encouraged. I have little experience, but I don't think they would be beneficial.

@InEMplease: i think legalization should go hand in hand with dis-encouraging for all drugs.

Legalization should be viewed a last resort to prevent the worst consequences of drug use, not as a tacit acknowledgment of drugs being harmless.

And in cases where drug use has helped?

Yes I don't see a benefit to legalizing highly addictive drugs. Minor drugs being legalized may decrease the use of the addictive drugs which may help.

@InEMplease: you mean when they help to treat a diesease?

The problem about using recreational drugs for treating conditions, is that people are likely to exaggerate it's positive effects because they enjoy the use.

But in case some recreational drugs are truly needed, and only them can treat some conditions, I would simply present it as something similar to chemotherapy.

You have to accept the negative health consequences in one area to treat a more important health condition In another area.

Not ideal, but preferencial.

Yes

Extremely, and not even in relation to illegal narcotic use which is a separate topic in of itself, but acceptance and reliance on prescription drug use... Pain medications, anti-depressants, etc. The trend to prescribe more and more medications to juveniles. I find it all problematic, especially the heavier (and extremely addictive) opiates for non-cancer patients.

Shhh, fellow bay area Californian. We know, we know.

Nah.

Can you imagine just walking into a drug store and getting a pack of oxy like we do with Tylenol?

Quite the opposite.

We should ditch this failed experiment and adopt the Portugese method (and increasingly the Dutch too). Which treats drug addictions like a medical issue, rather than a legal one. Of course, the Portuguese method isn't perfect either, but it works better than the Swedish one has >_>

I think people calling for the Portugal model are missinterpreting my comments as asking for greater use of bans and law enforcement.

But it's quite the contrary, i don't oppose legalization. I am simply concerned about what i perceive to be a great level of self deception at a societal level regarding the health and social harmfulness of drugs. And i see this self deception as responsible for greatly aggravating problems like poverty, homelessness and poor overall health.

There was a line in a movie fifty years ago that fits drug use as it did for alcohol use. " Man takes a drink, drink takes a drink, drink takes a man". It is the best line I ever heard for the progression of an additive substance.

Yeah I’m in Canada but I’ve seen lots of people who would never even consider touching marijuana when it was illegal take up smoking it now because the government says it’s okay. I’ve seen and heard of lots of little kids in elementsry schools now smoking those weed vape pens, it’s running rampant with young children in elementary schools. All this talk of legalizing cocaine and other hard drugs is mind boggling, we’ll be in a society of addicts where only those with a spine to avoid or put down the substance will be living a decent life.

People should be free to imbibe any substance they wish provided it causes no harm to anyone else.

@quiggling: well second hand smoking does harm other people, be it tabaco or marihuana.

But i never proposed to completely remove access to drugs .

I believe access should be legal within some restricted locations, and hard drugs legal consumption only under direct supervision.

But that's beside the point, my main concern is that i think most of society has decided collectively to fool themselves regarding how detrimental this shit is to their health and how easily many of the substances can create dependency.

I would like the government to devote more resources to educating people about this. It was done with cigarettesz why can it not be done with drugs ?

Besides how ironic is it, that at a time in which most people on western countries are rejecting tabaco out of a reasonable fears of lung cancer, a significant part of the population is embracing marihuana, that uses the exact same administration method that fucks up your lungs so much...

what if that harm is to someone 7,000 miles away?

@comp_atkins: well I guess that depends on the harm caused. I’m more concerned with the immediate harm potential such as driving under the influence

Rodgy that...

I know a lot of highly functional people across very different professional fields who consume recreative drugs on a regular basis and they still are very successful in what they do. It doesn't concern my at all, in fact their growing availability along with the explosive development our societies had in the last century in terms of knowledge and technology makes me pretty relaxed even though studies might give reasons for concern. From personal experience I'll say that those studies might be missing something pretty big.

Plus I have my doubts if societies with traditionally very strict anti alcohol/drugs positios show a significant, if any, advantage over more liberal ones. Makes me think the impact is pretty marginal compared with other factors. Also humans like to get high. Meh

I do support legalization and zero tolerance over underage usage. Buy if you're selling to adults that's between two adults. Basically it should be just like alcohol.

@kathaariancode: so you don't think the tents all over major cities in the USA have anything to do with drugs?

I mean, even if not the root cause of homelessness for some people, it definitely makes it way harder to get out of that situation.

To answer the topic's title question: yes.

I've always been one to support the legalization of weed; and since the gates have opened up for that reality, I see many people seeing it as leeway for egalization of hard drugs. I just can't get behind that.

I speculate much of these people that push for this have little to no experience with them, and have had no one in their personal lives that they've observed go through serious drug addictions that destroy their lives and the people around them, and/or die from them. A lot of people speak on naivety and I just can't get behind that.

No, it has to do with how we absolutely don't take care of people that fall through the cracks or run afoul of the law. We cast these people aside and into the garbage where they don't belong. Thousands upon thousands of potential productive members of society, potential taxpayers, just thrown out like the baby with the bathwater.

If anything, they need to be taking more drugs. Homelessness has always been an issue, but it didn't get terrible (in California, at least) until Reagan took charge and cut funding to welfare and state hospitals. Suddenly all those people with mental health issues found themselves out on the street, without medication; prior to that, many of them were getting meds and help.

Given the huge progress we've made in medical research concerning these things, I would argue many of these people would benefit from drugs such as ketamine, psilocybin, LSD, and other compounds. Of course the catch is that they need to do it responsibly, which is why it should be regulated. Legal, but regulated.

Fear-mongering, pearl-clutching, and worse. Ugh.

Of course "think of the children" lol. You know what the problem is?

Parents. Not drugs. Parents. Everyone wants a little version of themselves walking around out there in their desperate grasp at some semblance of immortality, but no one actually wants to look after their kids and they don't want to hear they failed as a parent.

20 bucks says a teacher probably called the kid's parents and the parents are like "My little Jimmy would never use a vape pen! We taught him better" lol

@Stevo_the_gamer said:

Extremely, and not even in relation to illegal narcotic use which is a separate topic in of itself, but acceptance and reliance on prescription drug use... Pain medications, anti-depressants, etc. The trend to prescribe more and more medications to juveniles. I find it all problematic, especially the heavier (and extremely addictive) opiates for non-cancer patients.

@mrbojangles25 said:

I think we (the US) should follow the Portuguese method; legalize pretty much everything, offer tons of help for abusers. We will see a spike during the initial honeymoon period like we do whenever a state legalizes cannabis, but it will fall off.

Shhh, fellow bay area Californian. We know, we know.

Was wondering when you'd show up 😋

I need the perspective of someone who deals with only the worst aspects of this topic.

@mrbojangles25: so your solution to homelessness, would be greater exposure to cognitively degrading, dependency generating, potentially lethal substances ?

I am not sure if your comment is just for shock value...

Your responses are weird, but i guess They have to represent the mindset of the country.

Funny thing, is that i have lived in the poorest parts of china, where substance abuse is extremely restricted and no social safety nets exist, and i haven't see the degree of poverty i have seen in the richest parts of LA.

Even in latin America it's hard to find sights like that. 20 years old looking like they are 70, poverty itself doesn't do that to you..

Drugs must be playing a big part in that.

"Drugs" is an easy, convenient, and lazy answer/excuse as to the causes of our problems.

The problem is not drugs; it's drug abuse. Drug abuse is already happening and is already bad. Legalizing it, regulating it, and then using that revenue to in part fund rehab clinics is having our cake and eating it too. Responsible users and people that actually benefit from using drugs (whether recreational or medically) can use them, while people with problems can actually get help. Win, win.

MDMA used for PTSD in Australia

Ketamine treatments help veterans with PTSD

Researchers have found that PTSD damages synaptic connections in the brain that affect information flow and patterns of thought, and ketamine treatments can repair and improve these connections while also building new, healthy patterns. If left untreated or if traditional treatments fail, PTSD is unlikely to disappear and can contribute to chronic pain, depression, drug and alcohol abuse, and suicide. Damage can also reappear over time if treatment is stopped without other support strategies in place.

Psilocybin used for treatment-resistant depression

...Psilocybin therapy is both studied and used by highly legitimate medical establishments such as Johns Hopkins. In fact, it was John Hopkins University that first received regulatory approval for psychedelic research in the year 2000, decades after the research and therapy were banned by the U.S. government in 1970.

In 2006, the first research paper by Johns Hopkins was published on the positive long-term impact of using psilocybin in a therapeutic study. Since then, dozens of studies and academic papers have been published, with the overarching theme that the therapy offers solid, long-term positive impact for patients with a variety of conditions.

...

Ayahuaska therapy helps victims of abuse, is "like three years of therapy in three hours"

...A frequent theme mentioned by victims of abuse and recovered addicts is that the ayahuasca-induced visions helped them to recover long-forgotten memories of traumatic events that they were then able to work through, providing a basis for restructuring their personal life (Loizaga-Velder and Verres, 2014). Ayahuasca-induced insights facilitate self-reflection, producing changes in self perspectives that can trigger psychodynamics insights which provide solutions to personal problems that underlie maladaptive lifestyles.

...

You really have to wonder what the world would be like if there was no Ronald and Nancy Reagan, no fruitless War on Drugs, and a common-sense approach to drug use that benefits society.

You know what the funny thing is? I'm pretty much sober now, like 98% of the year. I don't even drink alcohol. And I'm making this argument in favor of drugs lol. Why? Because I don't think it's just about the people that want to have a good time (though they have a right to do so!), it's about the people that could actually be helped by widespread drug use.

Of course I believe there should be some limits. I don't think methamphetamine, to name one, has any real benefit to society as it's legit poison.

China is notorious for opium (both use and export), and South America for cocaine.

Anyway I'm not sure if you're trying to paint them as some ideal but no thanks.

Again, as I might have mentioned, the issue is not drugs, it's drug abuse. Drug abuse includes cutting something natural like coke with, say, fentanyl or something pleasant like MDMA with heroin. That's how you get "20 year olds looking like 70"

People that can afford good drugs don't look like that. All the more reason to legalize and regulate, so we can ensure their wholesomeness and prevent them from being adulterated.

@mrbojangles25: what you are quoting Is a very regimented, professionally supervised drug medical use being successful to justify personal recreational use.

This is the same as me telling you, heroine has been used in war time to successfully anethesize the wounded or opioid derivates can be used to successfully treat patients under extreme pain.

Yes, it's true, but what happens when regular people have free access to those things, then you have a significant part of the population that gets fucked up.

Under recreational use, you depend on your own will power to restrict access, you are unaware of the long term effects, you lack the objectivity of a third party to judge if dependency has been created and most likely do not have the knowledge background of a medical doctor to regulate the harmful effects.

And saying that problem is not drugs but drug abuse, it's like saying guns don't kill people, people kill people. It's true, the abuser and the killer are making the action. But the object's easy availability greatly increases the risk that abuse or murder will happen.

And i am not presenting china or Latin America as ideals (both are very far from that, though opioid consumption is extremely rare in modern china so that example no longer applies)

I mention china because it has both a significant amount of the population living in poverty, it has not social safety nets and is very restricted when it comes to drug use. So it's an excellent example for comparison.

I mention latin America because i have lived there and I had expected to be much worse in terms of visible poverty. I was surprised to arrive to the usa and find not only a similar level of visible poverty, but people looking to be in worse health.

We need more treatment options for the hard drugs