Do you think Native American Indians have been properly treated by the US gov?

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#1 Edited by Jackamomo (425 posts) -

I heard about reparations to the descendants of former black slaves in the US.

Do Americans feel the native Indians have been well treated in the reservations and contributions they live on after the sequestering of their territories by the pioneers and cavalries of the 15th(?) century?

Or is it just ancient history now and they have the same opportunities of any American resident...

It seems they got a better deal than the Australian aboriginals.

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#2 Edited by SOedipus (10809 posts) -

I'm quite ignorant on how first peoples were treated in America. I just know that they weren't treated well. Not so ignorant in regards to Australia and Canada. How does it differ in America, compared to Australia?

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#3 Posted by korvus (11095 posts) -

I think the only people who can say whether American Indians are treated properly are American Indians...

I also have to say I don't fully understand the concept of reparations...people who never enslaved anyone giving money to people who were never slaves? What exactly are they righting here?

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#4 Posted by N64DD (9624 posts) -

I'm going to go with no.

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#5 Edited by IvanGrozny (584 posts) -
@korvus said:

I think the only people who can say whether American Indians are treated properly are American Indians...

I also have to say I don't fully understand the concept of reparations...people who never enslaved anyone giving money to people who were never slaves? What exactly are they righting here?

Stolen land duh Officially all the land belonged to Indians, and the federal government needed to negotiate sales of the land with Indian communities. Needless to say, most indian communities were bullied and blackmailed in surrendering their lands for little money. Reservations actually were a form of concentration camps - for many decades natives could not leave them without special permits. Kids were taken by force from their parents and given to the catholic church orphanages where they were physically and sexually abused ... till 70s. Yeah, till 1970s....Indians did not have the same rights as regular citizens without surrendering first their native status. Segregation with natives was even bigger than with blacks. A list of wrongdoings is very long. Natives suffered their 150-year long holocaust that has been only partially recognized by government. Its scale will never be fully recognized as the governments of US and Canada don't have that much of compensation money lol

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#6 Posted by korvus (11095 posts) -

@ivangrozny: Sorry, my post was ambiguous. I was talking about 2 different things. The reparations part I was referring to the one you mostly hear about, which is reparations to African Americans.

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#7 Posted by DaBrainz (7930 posts) -

They shattered our society and turned us into a bunch of hillbillies. Of course not.

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#8 Posted by LJS9502_basic (163339 posts) -

@ivangrozny said:
@korvus said:

I think the only people who can say whether American Indians are treated properly are American Indians...

I also have to say I don't fully understand the concept of reparations...people who never enslaved anyone giving money to people who were never slaves? What exactly are they righting here?

Stolen land duh Officially all the land belonged to Indians, and the federal government needed to negotiate sales of the land with Indian communities. Needless to say, most indian communities were bullied and blackmailed in surrendering their lands for little money. Reservations actually were a form of concentration camps - for many decades natives could not leave them without special permits. Kids were taken by force from their parents and given to the catholic church orphanages where they were physically and sexually abused ... till 70s. Yeah, till 1970s....Indians did not have the same rights as regular citizens without surrendering first their native status. Segregation with natives was even bigger than with blacks. A list of wrongdoings is very long. Natives suffered their 150-year long holocaust that has been only partially recognized by government. Its scale will never be fully recognized as the governments of US and Canada don't have that much of compensation money lol

Okay but are those same individuals alive? He's not wrong.

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#9 Edited by npiet1 (536 posts) -

I honestly think they should get over it, it didn't happen to them, my mothers side was invaded by the dutch but I don't hold prejudice against them for it. Here in Australia they get extra payments for just being aboriginal and they shouldn't, while they are more likely to get drug addictions and be homeless which is where the money shouldn't. With land rights the only time they claim is when its high value land where the one's in a business claim it to make money off it. A group (unsuccessfully thank god) just tried to get land which would of resulted in land being taken away from a housing commission area where aboriginals where staying fighting homeless and alcohol addiction

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#10 Posted by Libtard (4 posts) -
@npiet1 said:

I honestly think they should get over it, it didn't happen to them, my mothers side was invaded by the dutch but I don't hold prejudice against them for it. Here in Australia they get extra payments for just being aboriginal and they shouldn't, while they are more likely to get drug addictions and be homeless which is where the money shouldn't. With land rights the only time they claim is when its high value land where the one's in a business claim it to make money off it. A group (unsuccessfully thank god) just tried to get land which would of resulted in land being taken away from a housing commission area where aboriginals where staying fighting homeless and alcohol addiction

I'm Cree and I find this to be totally untrue. If you look at the statistics for many of the smaller cities and towns in Canada and possibly the U.S, you will find that the the majority of the homeless and drug addicts ARE native american. You have no right to tell someone whether on not they are allowed to recognise the decades of unfair treatment and genocide against their people.

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#11 Posted by Jacanuk (13295 posts) -
@jackamomo said:

I heard about reparations to the descendants of former black slaves in the US.

Do Americans feel the native Indians have been well treated in the reservations and contributions they live on after the sequestering of their territories by the pioneers and cavalries of the 15th(?) century?

Or is it just ancient history now and they have the same opportunities of any American resident...

It seems they got a better deal than the Australian aboriginals.

Yes, they got a fair deal.

They even got a few great NFL teams named after them.

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#12 Posted by npiet1 (536 posts) -

@libtard said:
@npiet1 said:

I honestly think they should get over it, it didn't happen to them, my mothers side was invaded by the dutch but I don't hold prejudice against them for it. Here in Australia they get extra payments for just being aboriginal and they shouldn't, while they are more likely to get drug addictions and be homeless which is where the money shouldn't (sorry my bad that should be "should"). With land rights the only time they claim is when its high value land where the one's in a business claim it to make money off it. A group (unsuccessfully thank god) just tried to get land which would of resulted in land being taken away from a housing commission area where aboriginals where staying fighting homeless and alcohol addiction

I'm Cree and I find this to be totally untrue. If you look at the statistics for many of the smaller cities and towns in Canada and possibly the U.S, you will find that the the majority of the homeless and drug addicts ARE native american. You have no right to tell someone whether on not they are allowed to recognise the decades of unfair treatment and genocide against their people.

Where did I say that the majority of them where not drug addicts, I think you miss read. I not saying don't recognise it, I'm saying they should get over it and realise it was a different time. Don't tell me I don't have a right when you are acting like you do, it happen to my people, it happened to a lot of different nations.

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#13 Edited by LJS9502_basic (163339 posts) -

@libtard said:
@npiet1 said:

I honestly think they should get over it, it didn't happen to them, my mothers side was invaded by the dutch but I don't hold prejudice against them for it. Here in Australia they get extra payments for just being aboriginal and they shouldn't, while they are more likely to get drug addictions and be homeless which is where the money shouldn't. With land rights the only time they claim is when its high value land where the one's in a business claim it to make money off it. A group (unsuccessfully thank god) just tried to get land which would of resulted in land being taken away from a housing commission area where aboriginals where staying fighting homeless and alcohol addiction

I'm Cree and I find this to be totally untrue. If you look at the statistics for many of the smaller cities and towns in Canada and possibly the U.S, you will find that the the majority of the homeless and drug addicts ARE native american. You have no right to tell someone whether on not they are allowed to recognise the decades of unfair treatment and genocide against their people.

At some point personal responsibility does enter into decisions. Yes what happened to Native Americans wasn't right. But those alive today didn't live through it. Seems people like to point to past generations to make excuses for the now.

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#14 Posted by npiet1 (536 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:
@libtard said:
@npiet1 said:

I honestly think they should get over it, it didn't happen to them, my mothers side was invaded by the dutch but I don't hold prejudice against them for it. Here in Australia they get extra payments for just being aboriginal and they shouldn't, while they are more likely to get drug addictions and be homeless which is where the money shouldn't. With land rights the only time they claim is when its high value land where the one's in a business claim it to make money off it. A group (unsuccessfully thank god) just tried to get land which would of resulted in land being taken away from a housing commission area where aboriginals where staying fighting homeless and alcohol addiction

I'm Cree and I find this to be totally untrue. If you look at the statistics for many of the smaller cities and towns in Canada and possibly the U.S, you will find that the the majority of the homeless and drug addicts ARE native american. You have no right to tell someone whether on not they are allowed to recognise the decades of unfair treatment and genocide against their people.

At some point personal responsibility does enter into decisions. Yes what happened to Native Americans wasn't right. But those alive today didn't live through it. Seems people like to point to past generations to make excuses for the now.

I totally agree. Aboriginals do it. African Americans do it (and they where the ones to sell the slaves to the "white man"), I can't say about Indians as I don't know enough about it. The "victim card" is such a stupid ideology that only hurts themselves instead of become successful

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#15 Edited by IvanGrozny (584 posts) -
@LJS9502_basic said:
@ivangrozny said:
@korvus said:

I think the only people who can say whether American Indians are treated properly are American Indians...

I also have to say I don't fully understand the concept of reparations...people who never enslaved anyone giving money to people who were never slaves? What exactly are they righting here?

Stolen land duh Officially all the land belonged to Indians, and the federal government needed to negotiate sales of the land with Indian communities. Needless to say, most indian communities were bullied and blackmailed in surrendering their lands for little money. Reservations actually were a form of concentration camps - for many decades natives could not leave them without special permits. Kids were taken by force from their parents and given to the catholic church orphanages where they were physically and sexually abused ... till 70s. Yeah, till 1970s....Indians did not have the same rights as regular citizens without surrendering first their native status. Segregation with natives was even bigger than with blacks. A list of wrongdoings is very long. Natives suffered their 150-year long holocaust that has been only partially recognized by government. Its scale will never be fully recognized as the governments of US and Canada don't have that much of compensation money lol

Okay but are those same individuals alive? He's not wrong.

Well, unfortunately for you, some native communities are still alive. Reparations are paid to the communities and all people whose status is native. It's extremely wrong to assume from the legal perspective that if everybody's dead then you are exempt from paying anything. There are still surviving family members who can inherit reparations. Besides, as I had mentioned before, many wrongdoings had been perpetrated till 1970s, so they are not that old to be swept under the carpet of time. And if you check the news such as Dakota Access Pipeline, the government and big corporations still keep screwing natives violating their already little pieces of land that have been left to them.

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#16 Edited by LJS9502_basic (163339 posts) -

@ivangrozny said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@ivangrozny said:
@korvus said:

I think the only people who can say whether American Indians are treated properly are American Indians...

I also have to say I don't fully understand the concept of reparations...people who never enslaved anyone giving money to people who were never slaves? What exactly are they righting here?

Stolen land duh Officially all the land belonged to Indians, and the federal government needed to negotiate sales of the land with Indian communities. Needless to say, most indian communities were bullied and blackmailed in surrendering their lands for little money. Reservations actually were a form of concentration camps - for many decades natives could not leave them without special permits. Kids were taken by force from their parents and given to the catholic church orphanages where they were physically and sexually abused ... till 70s. Yeah, till 1970s....Indians did not have the same rights as regular citizens without surrendering first their native status. Segregation with natives was even bigger than with blacks. A list of wrongdoings is very long. Natives suffered their 150-year long holocaust that has been only partially recognized by government. Its scale will never be fully recognized as the governments of US and Canada don't have that much of compensation money lol

Okay but are those same individuals alive? He's not wrong.

Well, unfortunately for you, some native communities are still alive. Reparations are paid to the communities and all people whose status is native. It's extremely wrong to assume from the legal perspective that if everybody's dead then you are exempt from paying anything. There are still surviving family members who can inherit reparations. Besides, as I had mentioned before, many wrongdoings had been perpetrated till 1970s.

Communities do NOT equal individuals. Please learn the difference. Hell I'm part Irish. The Irish were discriminated against when they first came to the US. Where are my reparations?

See how illogical your stance is yet?

There are also many programs in the US to help minorities....this includes Native Americans.

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#17 Posted by npiet1 (536 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic: See that's my point, it happened to so many yet groups weather they be black, white, native americans asian, we should just forgive but not forget.

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#18 Edited by IvanGrozny (584 posts) -
@LJS9502_basic said:
@ivangrozny said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@ivangrozny said:

Stolen land duh Officially all the land belonged to Indians, and the federal government needed to negotiate sales of the land with Indian communities. Needless to say, most indian communities were bullied and blackmailed in surrendering their lands for little money. Reservations actually were a form of concentration camps - for many decades natives could not leave them without special permits. Kids were taken by force from their parents and given to the catholic church orphanages where they were physically and sexually abused ... till 70s. Yeah, till 1970s....Indians did not have the same rights as regular citizens without surrendering first their native status. Segregation with natives was even bigger than with blacks. A list of wrongdoings is very long. Natives suffered their 150-year long holocaust that has been only partially recognized by government. Its scale will never be fully recognized as the governments of US and Canada don't have that much of compensation money lol

Okay but are those same individuals alive? He's not wrong.

Well, unfortunately for you, some native communities are still alive. Reparations are paid to the communities and all people whose status is native. It's extremely wrong to assume from the legal perspective that if everybody's dead then you are exempt from paying anything. There are still surviving family members who can inherit reparations. Besides, as I had mentioned before, many wrongdoings had been perpetrated till 1970s.

Communities do NOT equal individuals. Please learn the difference. Hell I'm part Irish. The Irish were discriminated against when they first came to the US. Where are my reparations?

See how illogical your stance is yet?

There are also many programs in the US to help minorities....this includes Native Americans.

Communities do NOT equal individuals? K, where do you get with such uneducated nonsense? I yet to see any community without its individuals.

Anyways native communities are in reality legal nations. These little tiny nations scattered across America. Nations inside a nation. So, many natives legally have double citizenships. Don't get a wrong idea, people must be recognized citizens of these so called "first nations" in order to be paid anything. Just feeling being native or having physical appearance of a native doesn't give you right to anything. Federal government made very sure about that. It's a long story of how the federal government was using dirty tactics to strip people from their native status, so today there are thousands of native communities who get paid nothing and not legally recognized in any way.

Secondly, comparing Irish and natives, the Irish didn't even get 10% of all shit that native people got. No offense. Besides, Irish came to Americas by choice, but natives were already here. They didn't have anywhere to go. They were already home. Do you see the difference?

Natives were literally federal government slaves. Federal government reserved their legal right to manage all aspects of natives' life. Federal government was literally dictating natives what they must believe, where to live, how to educate their kids, how to marry, where to work, how to work, etc. Literally full control of their life till 20 century, brother.

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#19 Posted by npiet1 (536 posts) -

@ivangrozny: What about how the Asians built the railroads but get nothing then?

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#20 Posted by korvus (11095 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic: I'm Portuguese and I lost track how many countries we invaded. Did we invade Ireland? If so, how much do I owe you for the hardship?

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#21 Posted by LJS9502_basic (163339 posts) -

@ivangrozny said:

Communities do NOT equal individuals? K, where do you get with such uneducated nonsense? I yet to see any community without its individuals.

Anyways native communities are in reality legal nations. These little tiny nations scattered across America. So many natives legally have double citizenships. Don't get a wrong idea, people must be recognized citizens of these so called "first nations" in order to be paid anything. Just feeling being native or having physical appearance of a native doesn't give you right to anything. Federal government made very sure about that. It's a long story of how the federal government was using dirty tactics to strip people from their native status, so today there are thousands of native communities who get paid nothing and not legally recognized in any way.

Secondly, comparing Irish and natives, the Irish didn't even get 10% of all shit that native people got. No offense. Besides, Irish came to Americas by choice, but natives were already here. They didn't have anywhere to go. They were already home. Do you see the difference?

Natives were literally federal government slaves. Federal government reserved their right, legally, no manage all aspects of natives' life. Federal government was literally dictating natives what they must believe, where to live, how to educate their kids, how to marry, where to work, how to work, etc. Literally full control of their life till 20 century, brother.

It's not at all uneducated nonsense but it is uneducated nonsense to equate the fact that a specific demographic community still exists that individuals were the ones that were removed from their land. It's false. You're wrong.

Well if you want are being honest Natives came they weren't initially here. They migrated. Just a historical fact for you since that's an issue with you. I'm not sure why choice means one should be discriminated and demonized though.

The point stands that those Native Americans are no longer alive. You can spin and twist all you want but that doesn't change.

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#22 Edited by IvanGrozny (584 posts) -
@LJS9502_basic said:
@ivangrozny said:

Communities do NOT equal individuals? K, where do you get with such uneducated nonsense? I yet to see any community without its individuals.

Anyways native communities are in reality legal nations. These little tiny nations scattered across America. So many natives legally have double citizenships. Don't get a wrong idea, people must be recognized citizens of these so called "first nations" in order to be paid anything. Just feeling being native or having physical appearance of a native doesn't give you right to anything. Federal government made very sure about that. It's a long story of how the federal government was using dirty tactics to strip people from their native status, so today there are thousands of native communities who get paid nothing and not legally recognized in any way.

Secondly, comparing Irish and natives, the Irish didn't even get 10% of all shit that native people got. No offense. Besides, Irish came to Americas by choice, but natives were already here. They didn't have anywhere to go. They were already home. Do you see the difference?

Natives were literally federal government slaves. Federal government reserved their right, legally, no manage all aspects of natives' life. Federal government was literally dictating natives what they must believe, where to live, how to educate their kids, how to marry, where to work, how to work, etc. Literally full control of their life till 20 century, brother.

It's not at all uneducated nonsense but it is uneducated nonsense to equate the fact that a specific demographic community still exists that individuals were the ones that were removed from their land. It's false. You're wrong.

Well if you want are being honest Natives came they weren't initially here. They migrated. Just a historical fact for you since that's an issue with you. I'm not sure why choice means one should be discriminated and demonized though.

The point stands that those Native Americans are no longer alive. You can spin and twist all you want but that doesn't change.

Look, I was thinking like you until I took a Native history course at the university. Completely by chance. I needed 3-hours in Humanities. I was a complete skeptic when I came to that course. But by the end of it, even I had to say "WTF How this could happen in Canada and USA?". Many look down on natives because we literally DO NOT know all the story. You think you know, but believe me, broh, you DO NOT. And it's not just you, it's 90% of American population who live in a peaceful bliss of ignorance. If they had a full picture of all wrongdoings to natives, they wouldn't see them in so a callous way.

It's not demographic communities. I told already, but you don't listen. Demographic communities have no right to anything, they are just regular American citizens. True native communities living in reservations are considered nations inside a nation, countries inside a country. They have their own governments and laws, and therefore, their own citizens. Reparations are paid to the nations and citizens of those nations.

Well if you want are being honest Natives came they weren't initially here.

No, they were already living at places of big American cities. You see, natives were not dumb, when europeans came, natives already occupied the best lands on important junctions of rivers, lakes and seaside. Then imagine this situation, you have a village of 50k people where you had lived for generations, then come Europeans and say, "You kinda live on a very important trade route. We need to you take your shit and go thousand kilometers north and start anew. And we will take your place for our trade outpost." Would you like that? Would you like to abandon your well established land with access to fishing, potable water and go to live to the swamps, and start building your towns from scratch in the middle of nowhere? Only to have Europeans come a few decade later and move you another 1000 km farther. Well, this is how reservations basically were created. They moved natives towns from one place to another, until the federal government appropriated 99% of all modern lands of America, this goes for Canada and the US. Needless to say, that dozen of thousands of natives died during these forced land migrations.

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#23 Edited by IvanGrozny (584 posts) -
@npiet1 said:

@ivangrozny: What about how the Asians built the railroads but get nothing then?

Oh, this is very interesting. You see, it's not about justice. It's about what you can prove in a court of law. In that, the federal government played themselves. The jurisprudence was already quite developed in the 1800s. So, in their fervor to segregate natives, the federal government provided them with passports that were documenting their native origin. They didn't know it would bite them in the future, when human rights kick in. They just wanted all natives well documented and controlled in a case of rebellions. But 150 years later, natives used that paperwork to track down their origins and, therefore, to claim reparations by law. Asians didn't have the same privilege, nobody was documenting them. They just became American citizens like everybody else. But don't make mistakes, the federal governments has been trying to fix their f*ck up for decades, using every excuse to removes native passports from natives and give them regular citizenships. In this way, they can no longer pay reparations to individuals if you no longer can prove your native status.

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#24 Posted by sonicare (56034 posts) -

I think most people can see that the various native american tribes/nations have been treated unfairly in the past by the US government. I believe that many of the original treaties and agreements were not honored. However, it is a very complex subject as there were various inter-native american conflicts that played out as well. They are not one big unified tribe, but rather multiple, separate nations with differing situations and political views. For example, I believe the original pilgrims were contracted for by one group of indigent peoples to wipe out another group.

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#25 Posted by LJS9502_basic (163339 posts) -

@ivangrozny said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@ivangrozny said:

Communities do NOT equal individuals? K, where do you get with such uneducated nonsense? I yet to see any community without its individuals.

Anyways native communities are in reality legal nations. These little tiny nations scattered across America. So many natives legally have double citizenships. Don't get a wrong idea, people must be recognized citizens of these so called "first nations" in order to be paid anything. Just feeling being native or having physical appearance of a native doesn't give you right to anything. Federal government made very sure about that. It's a long story of how the federal government was using dirty tactics to strip people from their native status, so today there are thousands of native communities who get paid nothing and not legally recognized in any way.

Secondly, comparing Irish and natives, the Irish didn't even get 10% of all shit that native people got. No offense. Besides, Irish came to Americas by choice, but natives were already here. They didn't have anywhere to go. They were already home. Do you see the difference?

Natives were literally federal government slaves. Federal government reserved their right, legally, no manage all aspects of natives' life. Federal government was literally dictating natives what they must believe, where to live, how to educate their kids, how to marry, where to work, how to work, etc. Literally full control of their life till 20 century, brother.

It's not at all uneducated nonsense but it is uneducated nonsense to equate the fact that a specific demographic community still exists that individuals were the ones that were removed from their land. It's false. You're wrong.

Well if you want are being honest Natives came they weren't initially here. They migrated. Just a historical fact for you since that's an issue with you. I'm not sure why choice means one should be discriminated and demonized though.

The point stands that those Native Americans are no longer alive. You can spin and twist all you want but that doesn't change.

Look, I was thinking like you until I took a Native history course at the university. Completely by chance. I needed 3-hours in Humanities. I was a complete skeptic when I came to that course. But by the end of it, even I had to say "WTF How this could happen in Canada and USA?". Many look down on natives because we literally DO NOT know all the story. You think you know, but believe me, broh, you DO NOT. And it's not just you, it's 90% of American population who live in a peaceful bliss of ignorance. If they had a full picture of all wrongdoings to natives, they wouldn't see them in so a callous way.

It's not demographic communities. I told already, but you don't listen. Demographic communities have no right to anything, they are just regular American citizens. True native communities living in reservations are considered nations inside a nation, countries inside a country. They have their own governments and laws, and therefore, their own citizens. Reparations are paid to the nations and citizens of those nations.

Well if you want are being honest Natives came they weren't initially here.

No, they were already living at places of big American cities. You see, natives were not dumb, when europeans came, natives already occupied the best lands on important junctions of rivers, lakes and seaside. Then imagine this situation, you have a village of 50k people where you had lived for generations, then come Europeans and say, "You kinda live on a very important trade route. We need to you take your shit and go thousand kilometers north and start anew. And we will take your place for our trade outpost." Would you like that? Would you like to abandon your well established land with access to fishing, potable water and go to live to the swamps, and start building your towns from scratch in the middle of nowhere? Only to have Europeans come a few decade later and move you another 1000 km farther. Well, this is how reservations basically were created. They moved natives towns from one place to another, until the federal government appropriated 99% of all modern lands of America, this goes for Canada and the US. Needless to say, that dozen of thousands of natives died during these forced land migrations.

And I thought you would understand the difference between people removed centuries ago and those alive today. Guess I was wrong.

Also they were here before Europeans. They weren't here at the start of civilization. They migrated as well. Also thought you would know that. Guess I was wrong.