Dictator Donald doesn't want to step down if he loses

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warmblur

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#1 warmblur
Member since 2017 • 6313 Posts

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/09/23/us/trump-vs-biden

President Trump, during a news conference at the White House Wednesday evening, refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power after the November election.

Asked by a reporter whether he would “commit here today for a peaceful transfer of all power after the election,” noting the violence that has arisen in some cities, Mr. Trump demurred. “We’re going to have to see what happens,” he said. “You know that I’ve been complaining very strongly about the ballots, and the ballots are a disaster.”

“We want to get rid of the ballots and you’ll have a very peaceful — there won’t be a transfer, frankly. There will be a continuation,” he added. “The ballots are out of control. You know it. And you know who knows it better than anybody else? The Democrats know it better than anyone else.”

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Eoten

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#2 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 1998 Posts

Unsolicited mail-in ballots, same day voter registration, hundreds of thousands of dead people still registered across the country, Michael Bloomberg spending millions to pay off felon's fees so that they can vote (highly illegal btw), Lebron James spending millions of dollars to do the same as well as funding a drive to recruit poll workers (honest ones? lmao, of course not). What's the worse that could happen? Lmao.

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LJS9502_basic

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#3 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 171593 Posts

He'll be taken by force then.

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Zaryia

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#4  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 14148 Posts

@eoten said:

Unsolicited mail-in ballots, same day voter registration, hundreds of thousands of dead people still registered across the country, Michael Bloomberg spending millions to pay off felon's fees so that they can vote (highly illegal btw), Lebron James spending millions of dollars to do the same as well as funding a drive to recruit poll workers (honest ones? lmao, of course not). What's the worse that could happen? Lmao.

Studies have been done by both the left and right (including the Trump administration). Voter fraud is almost non existent from all those things you listed. Especially in the GE. You just want less people voting because that statistically helps the less popular party.

You don't want these things because it helps your chances when less people vote. We know you don't care about that .01% Fraud rate. The alternative is that you're extremely misinformed. As usual you are often proven easily wrong:

Election Day voter registration poses ‘very little risk’ for fraud, audit finds

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2019/9/18/20872266/election-day-voter-registration-little-risk-for-voter-fraud-audit-finds

How about.....just make your party more popular? I understand the policies you liked are unpopular and don't work (Red States/Counties have a much lower HDI), but come on. There has to be a way to make your party continue to gain ground without stopping people from voting or gerrymandering. Brainstorm on it.

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rmpumper

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#5 rmpumper
Member since 2016 • 1192 Posts

@zaryia: What's the point in trying to convince a cultist with factual data?

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Vaasman

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#6 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 14685 Posts

I know it always comes to just imagine if Obama...

But... like just imagine if Obama refused to commit to peaceful transition. Imagine if his election team was looking for ways to bypass the election. Imagine if Obama told everyone that your ballots are shitty and certain votes shouldn't count, and it's all the Republicans fault.

What a fucking shitshow that would be.

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#7 deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@rmpumper: He is not a cultist; he is a bot.

Doesn’t matter what Trump says, if he loses he goes no matter what. But he is trying to steal it. We shouldn’t accept a Trump victory. Biden is our next president, period.

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jeezers

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#8 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

While democrats are promoting this crap, id say this election is going to be a bloodbath no matter who wins.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/hillary-clinton-says-biden-should-not-concede-2020-election-under-n1238156

I think the reason dems want mail in voting and changes to the voting rules is probably got more to do with overwhelming the system and dragging it out as long as possible, more than it does sending in fake ballots. Basically gives you a safeguard to contest as long as possible if you don't get the results you want, if we are counting ballots up to 1-2 weeks after election and the numbers don't look like they are in their favor, they will claim the election was illegitimate, something went wrong, even though they are the ones who changed the voting system which caused the delay. They know its going to be a shit show, i think they want the shit show, because i think they know Trumps chances are looking pretty good.

Basically if you cant win the system, just break it.

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#9 deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@jeezers: Switch Democrats with Trump and you got it. Biden’s chances look good right now, so Trump is trying to delegitimize the election before it happens.

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Eoten

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#10 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 1998 Posts

@thegreatchomp said:

@jeezers: Switch Democrats with Trump and you got it. Biden’s chances look good right now, so Trump is trying to delegitimize the election before it happens.

Trump isn't the one who came up with the stupid idea of mailing everyone a ballot and having anything but a normal, consistent election cycle.

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nintendoboy16

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#11  Edited By nintendoboy16  Online
Member since 2007 • 37772 Posts

And this is why I made that comment in my Lukashenko thread that pissed off righties.

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Maroxad

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#12 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 16507 Posts

@jeezers said:

While democrats are promoting this crap, id say this election is going to be a bloodbath no matter who wins.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/hillary-clinton-says-biden-should-not-concede-2020-election-under-n1238156

I think the reason dems want mail in voting and changes to the voting rules is probably got more to do with overwhelming the system and dragging it out as long as possible, more than it does sending in fake ballots. Basically gives you a safeguard to contest as long as possible if you don't get the results you want, if we are counting ballots up to 1-2 weeks after election and the numbers don't look like they are in their favor, they will claim the election was illegitimate, something went wrong, even though they are the ones who changed the voting system which caused the delay. They know its going to be a shit show, i think they want the shit show, because i think they know Trumps chances are looking pretty good.

Basically if you cant win the system, just break it.

They want voting changes to get more people to vote.

High voter turnout is generally favorable to left-wing causes. Which in turn benefits the democrats. This is why they were mysteriously closing voting booths in the 2015 primaries, to stop Bernie from becoming the nominee.

While improving the voter turnout is a good thing, the democrats are not doing it in a good faith manner.

At least they aren't pushing for Mandatory voting. I think mandatory voting is just as bad and anti-democratic as the voter suppression.

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#13 deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@eoten: Have a nice day.

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jeezers

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#14 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

@thegreatchomp said:

@jeezers: Switch Democrats with Trump and you got it. Biden’s chances look good right now, so Trump is trying to delegitimize the election before it happens.

Trump isn't trying to change the voting system, that's the democrats, all year they have been trying to make changes to the voting system/rules. Democrats are the ones sneaking changes to the voting process in covid relief bills lol

The person who changes the rules is the one who's trying to cheat.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#15 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 11752 Posts

He's already planted the seeds of illegitimacy by lying about mail in ballots. We can see it in this thread with the regular cultists.

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#16 deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@jeezers: Let’s just ignore his lies about mail in ballots and attempts to kill the USPS. Shhhh, never happened. Closing voter booths was an illusion. Lol

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jeezers

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#17 jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

@thegreatchomp said:

@jeezers: Let’s just ignore his lies about mail in ballots and attempts to kill the USPS. Shhhh, never happened. Closing voter booths was an illusion. Lol

screw mail in ballots, USPS can barley even handle the damn normal mail and the idiot dems think they can just send out mass ballots to every voter in the nation and nothing wrong is going to happen lol, eliminate signature verification, end voter ID, its plain as day. I think they just want to overwhelm the system and drag it out. Your talking about over 190 million ballots getting sent out in a short period of time, oh yeah nothing could go wrong. Your going to have so many problems, people voting twice, people voting who legally cant, people sending in ballots addressed to people who aren't them. Ballots who never get to where they were supposed to go.

We should have kept it as in person voting voting and the option to apply for absentee. At least we had basic safeguards in place with the normal system of voting. Its going to be a shitshow, so get some popcorn and enjoy the show.

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Eoten

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#18 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 1998 Posts

@thegreatchomp said:

@jeezers: Let’s just ignore his lies about mail in ballots and attempts to kill the USPS. Shhhh, never happened. Closing voter booths was an illusion. Lol

Or you can just get off your lazy ass and vote the same way everyone else has done for decades instead of trying to obfuscate, delay, derail, and defraud an election because it's the ONLY hope your party has to win.

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Eoten

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#19 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 1998 Posts
@Maroxad said:
@jeezers said:

While democrats are promoting this crap, id say this election is going to be a bloodbath no matter who wins.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/hillary-clinton-says-biden-should-not-concede-2020-election-under-n1238156

I think the reason dems want mail in voting and changes to the voting rules is probably got more to do with overwhelming the system and dragging it out as long as possible, more than it does sending in fake ballots. Basically gives you a safeguard to contest as long as possible if you don't get the results you want, if we are counting ballots up to 1-2 weeks after election and the numbers don't look like they are in their favor, they will claim the election was illegitimate, something went wrong, even though they are the ones who changed the voting system which caused the delay. They know its going to be a shit show, i think they want the shit show, because i think they know Trumps chances are looking pretty good.

Basically if you cant win the system, just break it.

They want voting changes to get more people to vote.

High voter turnout is generally favorable to left-wing causes. Which in turn benefits the democrats. This is why they were mysteriously closing voting booths in the 2015 primaries, to stop Bernie from becoming the nominee.

While improving the voter turnout is a good thing, the democrats are not doing it in a good faith manner.

At least they aren't pushing for Mandatory voting. I think mandatory voting is just as bad and anti-democratic as the voter suppression.

So you admit they are trying to change the voting system in their favor. What about Bloomberg and LeBron spending millions of dollars in Florida to pay off court fees and fines for felons so that they can vote? Or funding a recruiting drive for poll workers? Giving money to people in exchange to a vote, giving money to poll workers. You know these are illegal things right, done with the intention of influencing the outcome of the election.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#20 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 10554 Posts

@jeezers: If they can barely handle normal mail why were they dismantling mail sorting machines?

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#21 deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@eoten: lol.

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horgen

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#22 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 124305 Posts

@eoten: How is it illegal for Bloomberg to pay those fines?

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Eoten

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#23 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 1998 Posts

@horgen said:

@eoten: How is it illegal for Bloomberg to pay those fines?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/597

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Serraph105

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#24 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 35045 Posts

I'm so glad that the dems weren't the ones that ended up with a wannabe dictator and I'm not the one trying to defend it.

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#25  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 16507 Posts

@eoten said:

So you admit they are trying to change the voting system in their favor. What about Bloomberg and LeBron spending millions of dollars in Florida to pay off court fees and fines for felons so that they can vote? Or funding a recruiting drive for poll workers? Giving money to people in exchange to a vote, giving money to poll workers. You know these are illegal things right, done with the intention of influencing the outcome of the election.

Of course they are changing the voting system because it serves in their favor. Republicans want the voting system to remain the same because it favors them. But that doesnt change the fact that they are still doing the right thing. The US voter turnout is dismal and needs to improve. I seriously doubt what they are doing is illegal. And it is especially not immoral. Uplifting voices in a democracy is the right thing to do. As for those non-violent felons. They have served their time.

Then again, I look at things through a pro-democracy lens, as opposed to a partisan one. I want open elections, even if that means that the theocratic Constitution Party gets more power.

Edit: That law seems to refer specifically to bribing people to vote. Not spending money to restore restoration rights for disenfranchised people. He is paying money to the system, so the administration can restore the rights of people.

Spending money on influencing elections is not illegal, otherwise 99% of all political campaigning would be illegal. If you are certain you are right, why dont you prove yourself right in the court of law?

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#26  Edited By deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@eoten: That’s if he does it to get them to vote for it against someone. It’s not illegal if he does it and they are free to vote as they please. Lol

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mattbbpl

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#27 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 19204 Posts

@eoten said:
@horgen said:

@eoten: How is it illegal for Bloomberg to pay those fines?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/597

Whoever makes or offers to make an expenditure to any person, either to vote or withhold his vote, or to vote for or against any candidate; and

Whoever solicits, accepts, or receives any such expenditure in consideration of his vote or the withholding of his vote—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if the violation was willful, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

That is a stretch. That's written to be an anti-bribery law, not something to prevent clearing roadblocks for voting.

I see this is going to court, so it will be interesting to see how it's ruled. That would have implications for things like paying someone's voter ID fees in the states that require a photo ID to vote.

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horgen

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#28 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 124305 Posts

@eoten said:
@horgen said:

@eoten: How is it illegal for Bloomberg to pay those fines?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/597

If it comes with a promise to vote for The Democratic Party you have a case. If not, you don't.

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Eoten

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#29 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 1998 Posts

@horgen said:
@eoten said:
@horgen said:

@eoten: How is it illegal for Bloomberg to pay those fines?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/597

If it comes with a promise to vote for The Democratic Party you have a case. If not, you don't.

Are you honestly going to tell me you believe that bullcrap, or are you hoping I will? That they're paying off the fines of felons out of the kindness of their hearts and expect nothing in return?

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Drunk_PI

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#30 Drunk_PI
Member since 2014 • 3292 Posts

Oh boy, does this get better. link

Forbes: A jarring new report from The Atlantic claims that the Trump campaign is discussing potential strategies to circumvent the results of the 2020 election, should Joe Biden defeat Donald Trump, by first alleging the existence of rampant fraud and then asking legislators in battleground states where the Republicans have a legislative majority to bypass the state’s popular vote and instead to choose electors loyal to the GOP and the sitting president.

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#31 deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@drunk_pi: We already know this. Just be ready to fight for your country.

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mattbbpl

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#32 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 19204 Posts

@drunk_pi: But something about both sides!

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Xabiss

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#33 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 4189 Posts

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/19/nyregion/nj-election-mail-voting-fraud.html

It can happen and it has. This judge ordered a new election because of it. Not saying it will happen nationally, but on a scope that large it will be easy to do.

I will agree whoever loses must go.

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#34 deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@Xabiss: That is Trumps plan, sow the seeds of doubt now, stack the courts so if loses he can cry foul and have the courts overturn a free and fair election. One election, he loses he must go. Any legal battle unless it’s within a margin of error needs to be rejected.

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Xabiss

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#35  Edited By Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 4189 Posts

@thegreatchomp said:

@Xabiss: That is Trumps plan, sow the seeds of doubt now, stack the courts so if loses he can cry foul and have the courts overturn a free and fair election. One election, he loses he must go. Any legal battle unless it’s within a margin of error needs to be rejected.

And I can agree with what you said. There should be no court battle unless the margin of error is close or if their truly is voting tampering on either side happening.

And to be honest I don't trust either side when it comes to tampering with votes. They both are corrupt and wanting this presidency to bad.

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#36 deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@Xabiss: Unless it is blatant tampering, I don’t trust either on that. Too easy to make shit up and steal a state.

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whiskeystrike

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#37 whiskeystrike
Member since 2011 • 12213 Posts

wouldnt be hard to escort him outside of the white house

taze him if he gets a bit unruly

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mrbojangles25

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#38  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 48531 Posts

If he does try to stay, I really really really hope the GOP grows a pair, swallows its pride, and does the right thing and tell him he has to go.

With that said, I kind of hope he stays so all the disgruntled folks literally carry him out kicking and screaming. Would love to see some military officers serving their country by carrying out that anti-democratic sack of shit.

I expect to be disappointed with the results--either by Trump winning or Biden winning by a narrow margin--but I secretly hope that the country has come to its sense and elects Biden by a landslide. At least 60:40. That way there can be no disputing it (though Trump would likely dispute it because "everyone loves him")

@eoten said:

Unsolicited mail-in ballots, same day voter registration, hundreds of thousands of dead people still registered across the country, Michael Bloomberg spending millions to pay off felon's fees so that they can vote (highly illegal btw), Lebron James spending millions of dollars to do the same as well as funding a drive to recruit poll workers (honest ones? lmao, of course not). What's the worse that could happen? Lmao.

Be real, man: if cheating is happening, it's happening on both sides. Sad to say, but all we can plan for is that both sides balance the cheating out lol.

No one get's to take the high road this election, no one gets to be holier than thou.

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warmblur

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#39 warmblur
Member since 2017 • 6313 Posts

@whiskeystrike said:

wouldnt be hard to escort him outside of the white house

taze him if he gets a bit unruly

Good call also he likes bunkers they can tell him Putin wants to meet him there.

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Zaryia

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#40 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 14148 Posts

@jeezers said:
@thegreatchomp said:

@jeezers: Let’s just ignore his lies about mail in ballots and attempts to kill the USPS. Shhhh, never happened. Closing voter booths was an illusion. Lol

Your going to have so many problems, people voting twice, people voting who legally cant, people sending in ballots addressed to people who aren't them. Ballots who never get to where they were supposed to go.

Studies show the fraud from mail in voting is infinitesimal.

Like Trump, you are objectively wrong on this issue.

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Zaryia

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#41  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 14148 Posts
@mrbojangles25 said:

@eoten said:

Unsolicited mail-in ballots, same day voter registration, hundreds of thousands of dead people still registered across the country, Michael Bloomberg spending millions to pay off felon's fees so that they can vote (highly illegal btw), Lebron James spending millions of dollars to do the same as well as funding a drive to recruit poll workers (honest ones? lmao, of course not). What's the worse that could happen? Lmao.

Be real, man: if cheating is happening, it's happening on both sides. Sad to say, but all we can plan for is that both sides balance the cheating out lol.

No one get's to take the high road this election, no one gets to be holier than thou.

I mean Trump said this last time and it turned out false. Millions of invalid votes for Hillary? The fraud on both sides was less than .01%

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mattbbpl

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#42 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 19204 Posts

@zaryia said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
@eoten said:

Unsolicited mail-in ballots, same day voter registration, hundreds of thousands of dead people still registered across the country, Michael Bloomberg spending millions to pay off felon's fees so that they can vote (highly illegal btw), Lebron James spending millions of dollars to do the same as well as funding a drive to recruit poll workers (honest ones? lmao, of course not). What's the worse that could happen? Lmao.

Be real, man: if cheating is happening, it's happening on both sides. Sad to say, but all we can plan for is that both sides balance the cheating out lol.

No one get's to take the high road this election, no one gets to be holier than thou.

I mean Trump said this last time and it turned out false. Millions of invalid votes for Hillary? The fraud on both sides was less than .01%

But, damn it, something about both sides!

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deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc

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#43 deactivated-5fab1400b2fcc
Member since 2020 • 2126 Posts

@zaryia: They are lining up their excuses now so they can say they called it all along.

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Zaryia

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#44  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 14148 Posts

@mattbbpl said:
@zaryia said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
@eoten said:

Unsolicited mail-in ballots, same day voter registration, hundreds of thousands of dead people still registered across the country, Michael Bloomberg spending millions to pay off felon's fees so that they can vote (highly illegal btw), Lebron James spending millions of dollars to do the same as well as funding a drive to recruit poll workers (honest ones? lmao, of course not). What's the worse that could happen? Lmao.

Be real, man: if cheating is happening, it's happening on both sides. Sad to say, but all we can plan for is that both sides balance the cheating out lol.

No one get's to take the high road this election, no one gets to be holier than thou.

I mean Trump said this last time and it turned out false. Millions of invalid votes for Hillary? The fraud on both sides was less than .01%

But, damn it, something about both sides!

Voter fraud is virtually non-existent, by now we know the GOP and Trump do it to increase their chances of winning.

The question is if uninformed right wingers here know that's why. Or if they are being tricked into thinking voter fraud is a real issue that only happens to occur when more Democrats get to vote.

You can spam studies after study, they come back the next day citing the same Q-Anon reddit post like Eoten did.

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mrbojangles25

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#45 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 48531 Posts

@mattbbpl said:
@zaryia said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
@eoten said:

Unsolicited mail-in ballots, same day voter registration, hundreds of thousands of dead people still registered across the country, Michael Bloomberg spending millions to pay off felon's fees so that they can vote (highly illegal btw), Lebron James spending millions of dollars to do the same as well as funding a drive to recruit poll workers (honest ones? lmao, of course not). What's the worse that could happen? Lmao.

Be real, man: if cheating is happening, it's happening on both sides. Sad to say, but all we can plan for is that both sides balance the cheating out lol.

No one get's to take the high road this election, no one gets to be holier than thou.

I mean Trump said this last time and it turned out false. Millions of invalid votes for Hillary? The fraud on both sides was less than .01%

But, damn it, something about both sides!

Damn dude you are jaded as hell :(

or just being sardonic :D

@zaryia said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
@eoten said:

...

...

I mean Trump said this last time and it turned out false when claimed there were millions of invalid votes for Hillary.

It was fact checked false by his own administration lmao.

I can't believe Eoten is parroting these lies again after that epic self ownage Trump endured.

We live in a post-truth society. The right doesn't care about facts, they just want their feelings and beliefs validated.

"I want Trump to win. Why didn't he win?"

"The left cheated"

"Yeah, that's why! No, don't tell me anything else. 'The left cheated' is all I need"

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#46  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 14148 Posts

@thegreatchomp said:

@zaryia: They are lining up their excuses now so they can say they called it all along.

And when investigations turn up nothing they will make up new conspiracy theories. Q-Anon is dangerous when Trump enables them.

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#47 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 19204 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:

Damn dude you are jaded as hell :(

or just being sardonic :D

Por que no los dos?

I had to look up the definition of sardonic, though. Not going to lie :-)

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#48 Sevenizz
Member since 2010 • 6437 Posts

Mail in voting leaves a lot of room for error and fraud. When the proof comes out on or around Election Day, Trump should contest it - unless it’s in his favour - then, grats lol.

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#49 SUD123456  Online
Member since 2007 • 5900 Posts

@mattbbpl said:
@eoten said:
@horgen said:

@eoten: How is it illegal for Bloomberg to pay those fines?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/597

Whoever makes or offers to make an expenditure to any person, either to vote or withhold his vote, or to vote for or against any candidate; and

Whoever solicits, accepts, or receives any such expenditure in consideration of his vote or the withholding of his vote—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if the violation was willful, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

That is a stretch. That's written to be an anti-bribery law, not something to prevent clearing roadblocks for voting.

I see this is going to court, so it will be interesting to see how it's ruled. That would have implications for things like paying someone's voter ID fees in the states that require a photo ID to vote.

I doubt this is a problem as the expenditure isn't being made to the voter, nor is it being made to another person who could be construed to be a surrogate for that person. In other words, there is no direct financial benefit. The benefit is restoration of a constitutional right....that's it, that's all. And once restored the person can exercise that right in any manner they want or not exercise it at all.

As long as it is blanket/universal availability with no screening other than say, first come, first served, there won't be a problem. I also reject the Republican response that this is equal to paying off debt. There is no debt obligation. These people can literally go through the rest of their lives with never paying a cent if they want to, so there is no opportunity cost benefit.

Finally, using the photo ID example it seems quite clear that simple payment is insufficient evidence. Otherwise, many a parent that pays for their 18 yr old to get proper ID is going to be in jeopardy, which is obviously absurd.

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#50  Edited By Gatygun
Member since 2010 • 2161 Posts

Democrats gave trump a easy way to get out of any infavorable election results simple by blaming the mail in vote system being corrupt and not accepting the outcome because of it.

If democrats wanted a fair fight, they should have never meddled with the voting system which can also favor the outer party. Something they probably never thought about.