Democrats reject Trump's new deal - Temporary protection for Dreamers (DACA)

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/20/politics/democrats-shutdown/index.html?utm_content=2019-01-20T18%3A30%3A17&utm_term=link&utm_source=fbCNN&utm_medium=social

A day after President Donald Trump offered his plan to end the shutdown and fund a border wall in exchange for temporary protections for groups of immigrants, Democrats stood by their demand to reopen the government before negotiating about the border.

"Let's not hold the American people, especially the federal workers, hostage to these negotiations," South Carolina Rep. Jim Clyburn, a member of Democratic leadership, told Fox News. "And hopefully we will open with what he has put on the table, and let's go back and forth on this and see where we can find common ground."The Democratic rejection came as Vice President Mike Pence made clear the GOP intended to go forward with the plan the President outlined, positions that combined to show little tangible progress toward ending the longest government shutdown on record. Trump took to Twitter on Sunday morning to taunt House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and knock her for rejecting the deal. "Nancy Pelosi and some of the Democrats turned down my offer yesterday before I even got up to speak. They don't see crime & drugs, they only see 2020 - which they are not going to win. Best economy! They should do the right thing for the Country & allow people to go back to work," Trump tweeted.

Pence backed up Trump's position on "Fox News Sunday," calling Pelosi's rejection of the deal "disappointing." "What President Trump did here is he set the table for a deal that will address the crisis on the border, secure our border and give us a pathway to reopen the government," Pence said.Trump delivered a speech on Saturday where he described an offer to end the shutdown that would include temporary deportation protections in exchange for $5.7 billion in money for his wall or physical barrier along the US border with Mexico. Pelosi said the offer was a "non-starter" that did "not represent a good faith effort to restore certainty to people's lives."

"Let me make clear, that what the President proposed yesterday, increasing border security, looking at (Temporary Protected Status), looking at the Dreamers -- I'll use that as a starting point, but you've got to start by opening the government," Warner said on NBC's "Meet the Press

Well, it appears we a truly in a deadlock. I understand democrats however, Trump is a very impulsive and spontanouse president, can they actually believe he'll actually pull through with what he's saying?

Also, to me it would seem more fair not temporary but absolute protection for dreamers. In all honesty, that's simply not a good deal. Eitherway, democrats appear to want to first open the government before opening.

I don't know. In my mind, again, I believe this will end once the senate overides Trump's veto.

This wasn't a deal. It was a marketing ploy that Trump, Pence, and Kushner agreed upon. It's only purpose was to hopefully stem the growing tide of disapproval for Trump on the shutdown.

So he was willing to give temporarily protection to those who had it axed by him earlier? That's about it?

It's interesting that Trump thought that offering something temporary in exchange for something permanent would be something democrats would jump at. Not really a great deal and this should just end without democrats or Trump getting anything except for what has already occurred (approval rating changes for both) and the government re-opening. Trump caused this shutdown and he can stop it simply by rescinding his demands and that's what really needs to happen here.

Yes. That's the artful part of it, it wasn't even a deal.

They might as well take it, if Democrats are so sure that they will retake the White House in 2020 the next president can just sign a new bill giving them full amnesty. On the other hand, if Trump wins a second term, they still bought themselves three years and they can play the shutdown game too to get it extended if Trump isn't willing to do so. If they refuse it they are telling Dreamers it's more important to deny Trump a win then it is to give them a chance to get legal and potentially become citizens down the line.

DACA was passed through an executive order and could have easily been thrown out in court. If I'm not mistaken there were already a few lawsuits out there trying to get it declared unconstitutional and an overreach of Executive Power. Putting it in a bill passed by Congress would make the possibility of it being thrown out no longer an option.

Why would they take it when lower appeal courts have already put a stay on Trump's order? Now it seems that the SC isn't taking it up and that the lower ruling is staying in place. So Trump's offer is even less enticing since the program continues as normal for another 10 months.

I disagree with Trump that the dems are only thinking of 2020. If they were, they would take a deal they could easily make permanent down the line. It could be used as a platform for the democratic primaries. Instead, they just throw it out the window.

You make good points, although I believe democrats shouldn't take the deal unless its permanent. A wall for DACA forver seems like both sides get something they can be proud of. The temporary solution appears like Trump wins.

Yeah, this is it in a nutshell.

Putting it in a bill guarantees that it will not get overturned in court, and in three years we may have a new president that signs a bill making DACA permanent with a real pathway to citizenship while cutting off future funding of the wall. Keep it as an EO from a former president and there is no guarantee it won't eventually be thrown out prior to the end of Trump's presidency. Also, DACA in it's current form has no pathway to citizenship. The closest it comes to one is if someone were able to enter the military while being covered by DACA but that would be citizenship through military service, not through DACA itself and the military isn't for everyone.

Also. Ruth Bader Ginsberg is 85 and is having health issues. She may be holding on for now for the sake of keeping for liberal judges on the Supreme Court, but eventually her family may pressure her to retire so she can spend her last years in peace. Or worse, she may become too ill to stay on the court or even pass away. If that happens and Trump gets another Supreme Court pick, you can't guarantee the new court won't hear it and decide he was within his authority to rescind it.

Even though I would prefer that they give most of the kids eligible for DACA a pathway to citizenship now, it's still a good deal in it's current form and the only reason Democrats have to reject it is to keep Trump from getting a win. Democrats authorized funds for a barrier on small portions of the border before, but that was when President Obama was in the White House.

Since DACA is not a pathway to citizenship, regardless of if it is permanent or not it doesn't solve the problem. An actual pathway to citizenship would be better, but they should take what they being offered for now so they don't have to debate for a better bill while almost a million federal workers are not getting paid. We can blame the president all day for this since he said he would shut down the government for the wall, but getting those people paid is more important than stopping Trump from getting a win, and Democrats upset about the wall can make sure they come out and vote next year if they don't want this to happen again.

As I've mentioned it before, unfortunately that's not going to happen. This would set a precedent for Trump. Everytime he doesn't get what he wants he'll shut down the government and hold hostage people so he can get what he wants. Again, a large portion of Americans are blaming Trump so this issue isn't really hurting Democrats, they have zero reason to budge and as polling is showing, the longer this goes on - the more unpopular Trump is becoming.

@blackballs: it ends once the senate kick out McConnell.

No they should NOT take it. You cannot give in to blackmail or it never ends.

Also he isn't offering a damn thing in return.

Agreed. It's his shutdown, he wanted it. It's unpopular with Americans and he's getting most of the blame. Democrats have zero - zero reason to cave in. If anything POTUS needs to man up and open the government so thousands of workers can get paid.

@LJS9502_basic: I'm pretty sure that's a chapter in "The Art of the Deal" - When the opposing side tells you it's a good deal, you'd better take it.

This shut down sure shows he knows **** all about making deals.

Except that Trump's deal only extended it to 3 years. If nothing else changes the SC wouldn't get another chance to take it up for 10 months, and even if they did rule against it, that would take even more months. So here are the two options:

1) Take Trump's offer and have DACA extended for 3 years with no perm. solution.

2) Reject Trump's offer and have DACA extended for 1.5 years in the worst case scenario of the SC siding with the admin.

If we ignore all other political repercussions and damaging polling issues, scenario 1 is only marginally better than not taking it. If we take Trump's growing disapproval rating into account then it completely throws it out the window. As I said before, this isn't a deal and Trump knows it. They're not giving anything that isn't already there for the time being.

@blackballs: The problem is that you can’t trust that Trump will follow through on any promise he makes. He’s impulsive and a borderline pathological liar.

The opportunity to shut down the government only comes a few times a year, he can't just shut it down on a whim. When it comes down to it, rejecting the bill at this point would have nothing to do with anything other than politics. Congress has approved several times the amount Trump is asking for in the past when it comes to border security, and even if they accept the deal there will be plenty of opportunities to stall major portions of construction until the end of 2020 and if Trump loses reelection the new Democrat in charge can sign an EO halting construction on day one.

DACA is currently an EO and there is no guarantee the courts will continue to block Trump from rescinding it. Putting DACA in a bill means it will be law and no president can hand wave it out of existence. You can argue the morality of shutting down the government to get what you want when you are going door to door getting people to register to vote next year but that isn't going to get the people not getting paid their paychecks.

If Trump is as terrible as you claim nothing he does between now and November 2020 will get him reelected, and the next president can easily halt all construction on the wall and Dreamers will still be protected by the three year DACA deal. Then that president can shut down the government to get it upgraded to full amnesty.

They are gambling if they don't take it. If the courts decide that he was within his authority to rescind Obama's original DACA order then Democrats just exposed all of those Dreamers to possible deportation just because they didn't want to put a dime towards the wall. In your worst case scenario, that gives Trump a minimum of six months to make life harder for the Dreamers assuming another deal doesn't come out and a maximum of four and a half years if he is reelected.

The bottom line is how much of the wall do you think they could build between now and January 20, 2021? If Trump doesn't get reelected, the next president could easily halt construction and the Dreamers still have their protected status. If he does get reelected, the Democrats could take the opportunity to do their own shutdown to get the three year deal extended or upgraded to amnesty since they already saw that shutdowns work. And in their case, they'll probably have a lot more people behind them for the sake of the Dreamers.

Congress can deal with DACA, There is NO WAY we should allow a president to hold the government hostage for his own personal agenda's. Sad that you support that.

@LJS9502_basic: How is border security a personal agenda?

This isn't about border security. He got called out by a couple of talking heads and reversed his decision. IE agenda.

Going by that theory, I could ask you why you were okay with DACA being passed in the first place. President Obama signed the EO putting it in place because Congress didn't give him enough votes to pass the DREAM Act and a few years later we have courts blocking President Trump from rescinding an EO his predecessor put in place.

As for the wall, while there are plenty of people against it, if it was his goal alone he wouldn't have campaigned on a promise to build one. I may not be a fan of a wall going from coast to coast, but I can see why certain areas of it can use some extra barriers.

And yet the government wasn't held hostage. False equivalency. Man you guys just keep making excuses for this train wreck of a president. You know what's good about it? The republican party is being hurt.

This wasn't a deal. This was Trump taking immigrants he wants to deport hostage.

First the government employees then the immigrants..........is this the art of the deal........hostages?

Maybe if you give him a car and private jet out of the country, then you'll get rid of the problem.

Hostage takers either give up peacefully and then go to prison or they take a bullet to the head and go to the morgue. This sure seems like Trump wants to take the political bullet to the head. I say let him.

@vl4d_l3nin: the wall is . not border security.

Considering America did not even vote for DACA by having it passed as a law, the Democrats should be thrilled they got this much.

And that´s about it, and that Democrats were unwisely arrogant about it and declined it.

How about DACA protection for $25 billion in border security - no wall included. Seems like a great compromise.

Not really.

DACA as a permanent protection has no place.

So then what's your compromise?

Nothing when it comes to DACA.

Democrats should also think about actual Americans, not illegals because they know if they get to vote, most will vote democratic.

Okay, but then what's your compromise? You know this shutdown isn't ending until both parties get something they can agree to. Wall is something you want and are passionate about but the other side hates - same with DACA. If you don't budge on DACA, then I don't think dem's should budge on a wall Mexico was going to pay for.

The in between is increase in border security.

My compromise would be something that benefits the actual Americans not illegals, something Democrats have been wanting to do.

Trump want the 5.7billion for the wall and the Democrats can get the same for anything they want, is the best compromise IMO.

Fair enough.

Currently the courts aren't falling in line with Trump's DACA mandate, so he's not offering something that isn't already there. It's like trying to make a deal saying he'll offer sunshine that'll come anyways. It's a joke.

So much drama over nothing. It's not a real government shut down unless more than 51% of government activities stopped. You have this FAKE news shut down. Why are senators and Congress still getting paid? Why is the military still getting $800billion which could be used to pay down the debt? This is fake news everyone.

I also encourage the so called federal workers who are not working to quit and find real employment in the private sector. Including the TSA. Unless the airlines want to step in and start paying the salary of these workers then they should all quit unilaterally

They'll be exposed to deportation in either scenario though. There's no permanence either way but one is more favorable to democrats politically. And again, this is assuming that the SC would eventually rule in Trump's favor. It could go the other way instead. You'd have to be an idiot to take Trump's deal.

Democrats wanted to shut down the government a year ago to force Dreamer protections into law and most of the media was cheering them on and got upset when they caved. Using a shutdown to get what you want isn’t exclusively a Republican thing, and at the point we are at right now there are no innocent parties. The right is guilty because they are depriving people of pay and/or services for a wall, and the left are guilty because they are depriving people of pay and/or services because they think it will pay off for them in 2020 among the people that think border security (not just the wall itself) is racist. This is not how our government should work, and in my opinion no politician should be able to leave Washington until they figure it out.

That's absolutely correct, and the instance you mention (Dreamer protections) is an apt comparison. That was a situation in which the Democrats were 100% responsible for shutting down the government, and then had to convince people that their goal was worth the shutdown. They failed, got nothing, and paid a political price for shutting the government down.

The underlined portion is just an attempt at obfuscation though. Just like in the Dreamer situation above, the Republicans have shut down the government in order to get what they want. They can argue that their goals are worth it (and they have been), but the shutdown is 100% on them.

Why would they be idiots to take the deal? Three years from today is January 2022. Many liberals believe that Trump is so horrible that he will easily be defeated in the 2020 election no matter what happens between then and now and a pro-Dreamer and anti-wall Democrat will be president on January 20, 2021. If that happens like they believe it will, they can push for a bill day one of their presidency making Dreamer protections permanent, while cutting funding for the wall.

Don’t take the deal, and the Dreamers are exposed to deportation if the courts rule in Trump’s favor, or another challenge comes in successfully arguing that Obama didn’t have the authority to put DACA in place in the first place. Even if Trump gets reelected that’s still a year after his reelection for them to try and force a bill extending their protections and for all we know Trump may not give a shit at that point and give the Democrats what they want because he already got his second term secured.

Democrats are also arguing that Trump should reopen the government without a wall and then after it’s reopen debate on a separate bill for funding for the wall. He is refusing because Speaker Pelosi outright told him that she will not consider border wall funding after the government is open, contradicting the previous offer to debate for wall funding later. Maybe she should take some of the blame there, and salvage the issue by taking the deal. She would still have almost two years to convince voters to relect her and the Democrats that voted in favor of it.

I've already gone over why I believe it's a bad deal. You're simply trying to polish a turd over and over again. At this point it seems like you're trying to sell it to yourself even.

@ad1x2: "Many liberals believe that Trump is so horrible that he will easily be defeated in the 2020 election"

I think at this point you would be foolish to believe that. Trump won without a majority vote, he's pushed through justices to the Supreme Court without a majority super-majority in congress, his base is rock solid regardless of what he says or does or how he goes about doing things, and he's the president now who automatically has structural advantages in their own re-election. You would have to be incredibly foolish to believe Trump's defeat in 2020 is inevitable.