Court blocks decision to penalize Sanctuary Cities. Trump angry!

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Avatar image for nintendoboy16
#1 Posted by nintendoboy16 (34547 posts) -

The Hill

President Trump on Thursday argued sanctuary cities are making America less safe in the wake of a court ruling that blocked his administration from limiting grant funding for such jurisdictions.

“Sanctuary Cities released at least 142 gang members across the United States, making it easy for them to commit all forms of violent crimes where none should have existed.”

“We are doing a great job of law enforcement, but things such as this make safety in America difficult!” he added.

The president appeared to be referencing Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) statistics released earlier this week that showed 142 gang members it sought to deport were released by local law enforcement between Oct. 1, 2016, and June 19, 2017.

The report noted all but one of the releases took place in a “sanctuary jurisdiction,” where local police do not enforce federal immigration law, according to the Center for Immigration Studies.

Trump has frequently railed against sanctuary cities, taking particular aim in recent days at California for its laws.

He said earlier Thursday there’s “a little bit of a revolution going on in California” because some residents don’t agree with the state’s immigration policies. He has previously thanked Orange County, Calif., for resisting state laws by joining a Justice Department lawsuit against the state.

The Justice Department is suing California over its sanctuary laws, and has attempted to withhold funding intended for local law enforcement from municipalities that implement sanctuary policies.

However, a federal appeals court in Chicago on Thursday struck a blow to the latter initiative when it upheld a nationwide injunction that blocks the administration from putting certain conditions on federal grant funding to force sanctuary cities to comply with immigration enforcement efforts.

Good! BS like this shouldn't happen. Donald can cry all he wants.

Avatar image for mattbbpl
#2 Posted by mattbbpl (15317 posts) -

A win for states' rights. Conservatives will be ecstatic.

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#3 Edited by DrLostRib (3927 posts) -

I wonder if Trump is tired of winning yet

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#4 Posted by LJS9502_basic (163339 posts) -

Hahaha.......guess he'll be busy on twitter.

Avatar image for mattbbpl
#5 Posted by mattbbpl (15317 posts) -

Also, obligatory "Trump Smash!" gif just because I can't help but think of it when I read the title.

Avatar image for kittennose
#6 Posted by KittenNose (2456 posts) -

States ignore drug law. States ignore immigration law. Time to stop pretending the federal government is useful for much.

Avatar image for Mikey132
#7 Posted by Mikey132 (5143 posts) -

@nintendoboy16: Demorats today say that no one is above the law when talking about Trump. I guess that doesn't extend to illegal immigrants they so dearly love.

The progressives in Ontario, Canada are trying the same nonsense. Regular citizens be damned, your tax dollars need to support our illegal criminals because we need them for votes. Now we have jihadists in our government pushing the Islamophobia (really, That's not a typo? Islamophobia isn't a real word) crap on us.

trying times for many, unity at an all time low. Perverse progressives have ruined North America.

Avatar image for mrbojangles25
#8 Posted by mrbojangles25 (40625 posts) -

Trump should be happy, he is all about state rights, smaller federal government, etc.

Avatar image for Mikey132
#9 Posted by Mikey132 (5143 posts) -

@mrbojangles25:

Yeah, but he's not about breaking the law.

I'll still never get it, why illegal immigrants are heroes to some people. I think about the countries I could go to illegally....and then END UP DEAD because of it.

If I pull this heart string hard enough, will it start your brain? (I didn't mean you personally)

Avatar image for speedfreak48t5p
#10 Posted by speedfreak48t5p (12936 posts) -

Avatar image for theone86
#11 Edited by theone86 (21555 posts) -
@Mikey132 said:

@nintendoboy16: Demorats today say that no one is above the law when talking about Trump. I guess that doesn't extend to illegal immigrants they so dearly love.

The progressives in Ontario, Canada are trying the same nonsense. Regular citizens be damned, your tax dollars need to support our illegal criminals because we need them for votes. Now we have jihadists in our government pushing the Islamophobia (really, That's not a typo? Islamophobia isn't a real word) crap on us.

trying times for many, unity at an all time low. Perverse progressives have ruined North America.

Yeah, I mean, it couldn't be about the studies showing that when illegal immigrants feel comfortable enough to cooperate with local law enforcement communities get safer for legal citizens, non-citizens, and police officers alike. No, it's just that crazy liberal agenda.

Avatar image for Mikey132
#12 Posted by Mikey132 (5143 posts) -

@theone86: Communities are safer without the illegals in the first place.

Avatar image for nintendoboy16
#13 Posted by nintendoboy16 (34547 posts) -

@mattbbpl: lol Partly what I had in mind. Although I was thinking more along the lines of this:

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Avatar image for mighty-lu-bu
#14 Posted by Mighty-Lu-Bu (2966 posts) -
@nintendoboy16 said:

The Hill

President Trump on Thursday argued sanctuary cities are making America less safe in the wake of a court ruling that blocked his administration from limiting grant funding for such jurisdictions.

“Sanctuary Cities released at least 142 gang members across the United States, making it easy for them to commit all forms of violent crimes where none should have existed.”

“We are doing a great job of law enforcement, but things such as this make safety in America difficult!” he added.

The president appeared to be referencing Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) statistics released earlier this week that showed 142 gang members it sought to deport were released by local law enforcement between Oct. 1, 2016, and June 19, 2017.

The report noted all but one of the releases took place in a “sanctuary jurisdiction,” where local police do not enforce federal immigration law, according to the Center for Immigration Studies.

Trump has frequently railed against sanctuary cities, taking particular aim in recent days at California for its laws.

He said earlier Thursday there’s “a little bit of a revolution going on in California” because some residents don’t agree with the state’s immigration policies. He has previously thanked Orange County, Calif., for resisting state laws by joining a Justice Department lawsuit against the state.

The Justice Department is suing California over its sanctuary laws, and has attempted to withhold funding intended for local law enforcement from municipalities that implement sanctuary policies.

However, a federal appeals court in Chicago on Thursday struck a blow to the latter initiative when it upheld a nationwide injunction that blocks the administration from putting certain conditions on federal grant funding to force sanctuary cities to comply with immigration enforcement efforts.

Good! BS like this shouldn't happen. Donald can cry all he wants.

People are so stupid in my home state of California that it is unbelievable. These cities are openly aiding illegal immigrants and they should suffer the consequences. How many more innocent people have to die in order for us to completely abolish the lame concept of sanctuary cities?

Avatar image for n64dd
#15 Posted by N64DD (9624 posts) -
@theone86 said:
@Mikey132 said:

@nintendoboy16: Demorats today say that no one is above the law when talking about Trump. I guess that doesn't extend to illegal immigrants they so dearly love.

The progressives in Ontario, Canada are trying the same nonsense. Regular citizens be damned, your tax dollars need to support our illegal criminals because we need them for votes. Now we have jihadists in our government pushing the Islamophobia (really, That's not a typo? Islamophobia isn't a real word) crap on us.

trying times for many, unity at an all time low. Perverse progressives have ruined North America.

Yeah, I mean, it couldn't be about the studies showing that when illegal immigrants feel comfortable enough to cooperate with local law enforcement communities get safer for legal citizens, non-citizens, and police officers alike. No, it's just that crazy liberal agenda.

Illegal immigrants shouldn't be here. What do you not understand about ILLEGAL?

Avatar image for mighty-lu-bu
#16 Edited by Mighty-Lu-Bu (2966 posts) -
@n64dd said:
@theone86 said:
@Mikey132 said:

@nintendoboy16: Demorats today say that no one is above the law when talking about Trump. I guess that doesn't extend to illegal immigrants they so dearly love.

The progressives in Ontario, Canada are trying the same nonsense. Regular citizens be damned, your tax dollars need to support our illegal criminals because we need them for votes. Now we have jihadists in our government pushing the Islamophobia (really, That's not a typo? Islamophobia isn't a real word) crap on us.

trying times for many, unity at an all time low. Perverse progressives have ruined North America.

Yeah, I mean, it couldn't be about the studies showing that when illegal immigrants feel comfortable enough to cooperate with local law enforcement communities get safer for legal citizens, non-citizens, and police officers alike. No, it's just that crazy liberal agenda.

Illegal immigrants shouldn't be here. What do you not understand about ILLEGAL?

This is what the left doesn't understand, illegal immigrants are criminals. Why? Because they broke the laws of our federal government in order to get into our country. They aren't citizens, they don't have constitutional rights and they don't deserve to stay. I am pro immigration, but I am 100% against illegal immigration.

If the left had it's way, people would just come into our country unchallenged and we would completely lose our culture, but of course they don't think in these terms because they feel bad for illegal immigrants. Why feel bad for a bunch of criminals who have no right to be in our country in the first place? They don't respect our laws or our culture so why should we suddenly grant these criminals citizenship? Sorry, but American citizenship is not given out like jelly beans, it is earned.

Avatar image for n64dd
#17 Posted by N64DD (9624 posts) -

@mighty-lu-bu said:
@n64dd said:
@theone86 said:
@Mikey132 said:

@nintendoboy16: Demorats today say that no one is above the law when talking about Trump. I guess that doesn't extend to illegal immigrants they so dearly love.

The progressives in Ontario, Canada are trying the same nonsense. Regular citizens be damned, your tax dollars need to support our illegal criminals because we need them for votes. Now we have jihadists in our government pushing the Islamophobia (really, That's not a typo? Islamophobia isn't a real word) crap on us.

trying times for many, unity at an all time low. Perverse progressives have ruined North America.

Yeah, I mean, it couldn't be about the studies showing that when illegal immigrants feel comfortable enough to cooperate with local law enforcement communities get safer for legal citizens, non-citizens, and police officers alike. No, it's just that crazy liberal agenda.

Illegal immigrants shouldn't be here. What do you not understand about ILLEGAL?

This is what the left doesn't understand, illegal immigrants are criminals. Why? Because they broke the laws of our federal government in order to get into our country. They aren't citizens, they don't have constitutional rights and they don't deserve to stay. I am pro immigration, but I am 100% against illegal immigration.

Incoming response from the left how illegal immigrants don't hurt anybody so breaking the law doesn't mean anything.

Avatar image for mighty-lu-bu
#18 Edited by Mighty-Lu-Bu (2966 posts) -
@n64dd said:
@mighty-lu-bu said:
@n64dd said:
@theone86 said:

Yeah, I mean, it couldn't be about the studies showing that when illegal immigrants feel comfortable enough to cooperate with local law enforcement communities get safer for legal citizens, non-citizens, and police officers alike. No, it's just that crazy liberal agenda.

Illegal immigrants shouldn't be here. What do you not understand about ILLEGAL?

This is what the left doesn't understand, illegal immigrants are criminals. Why? Because they broke the laws of our federal government in order to get into our country. They aren't citizens, they don't have constitutional rights and they don't deserve to stay. I am pro immigration, but I am 100% against illegal immigration.

Incoming response from the left how illegal immigrants don't hurt anybody so breaking the law doesn't mean anything.

Yeah, tell that to the poor young woman who got murdered by an illegal immigrant in San Francisco. The city of San Francisco refused to detain the illegal immigrant and refused to work with ICE- they should be charged with treason. Drastic I know, but we need to send a message to these sanctuary cities because all they are doing is aiding criminals.

Avatar image for perfect_blue
#19 Posted by Perfect_Blue (30680 posts) -
@mighty-lu-bu said:

This is what the left doesn't understand, illegal immigrants are criminals. Why? Because they broke the laws of our federal government in order to get into our country. They aren't citizens, they don't have constitutional rights and they don't deserve to stay. I am pro immigration, but I am 100% against illegal immigration.

If the left had it's way, people would just come into our country unchallenged and we would completely lose our culture, but of course they don't think in these terms because they feel bad for illegal immigrants. Why feel bad for a bunch of criminals who have no right to be in our country in the first place? They don't respect our laws or our culture so why should we suddenly grant these criminals citizenship? Sorry, but American citizenship is not given out like jelly beans, it is earned.

What crimes do illegal immigrants break to get into the country? Please be specific.

Also, an American citizenship definitely isn't always "earned", lmao. All it takes is to be born on American soil.

Avatar image for mighty-lu-bu
#20 Edited by Mighty-Lu-Bu (2966 posts) -
@perfect_blue said:
@mighty-lu-bu said:

This is what the left doesn't understand, illegal immigrants are criminals. Why? Because they broke the laws of our federal government in order to get into our country. They aren't citizens, they don't have constitutional rights and they don't deserve to stay. I am pro immigration, but I am 100% against illegal immigration.

If the left had it's way, people would just come into our country unchallenged and we would completely lose our culture, but of course they don't think in these terms because they feel bad for illegal immigrants. Why feel bad for a bunch of criminals who have no right to be in our country in the first place? They don't respect our laws or our culture so why should we suddenly grant these criminals citizenship? Sorry, but American citizenship is not given out like jelly beans, it is earned.

What crimes do illegal immigrants break to get into the country? Please be specific.

Also, an American citizenship definitely isn't always "earned", lmao. All it takes is to be born on American soil.

"The immigration law actually uses the term "improper entry," which has a broad meaning. It’s more than just slipping across the U.S. border at an unguarded point. Improper entry can include:

  • entering or attempting to enter the United States at any time or place other than one designated by U.S. immigration officers (in other words, away from a border inspection point or other port of entry)
  • eluding examination or inspection by U.S. immigration officers (people have tried everything from digging tunnels to hiding in the trunk of a friend’s car)
  • attempting to enter or obtain entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or willful concealment of a material fact (which might include, for example, lying on a visa application or buying a false green card or other entry document).

(See Title 8, Section 1325 of the U.S. Code (U.S.C.), or Section 275 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (I.N.A.) for the exact statutory language - www.uscis.gov/laws/immigration-and-nationality-act.)

Criminal Penalties

For the first improper entry offense, the person can be fined (as a criminal penalty), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. For a subsequent offense, the person can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, I.N.A. Section 275.)

But just in case that isn’t enough to deter illegal entrants, a separate section of the law adds penalties for reentry (or attempted reentry) in cases where the person had been convicted of certain types of crimes and thus removed (deported) from the U.S., as follows:

(1) People removed for a conviction of three or more misdemeanors involving drugs, crimes against the person, or both, or a felony (other than an aggravated felony), shall be fined, imprisoned for up to ten years, or both.

(2) People removed for a conviction of an aggravated felony shall be fined, imprisoned for up to 20 years, or both.

(3) People who were excluded or removed from the United States for security reasons shall be fined, and imprisoned for up to ten years, which sentence shall not run concurrently with any other sentence.

(4) Nonviolent offenders who were removed from the United States before their prison sentence was up shall be fined, imprisoned for up to ten years, or both.

What’s more, someone deported before a prison sentence was complete may be incarcerated for the remainder of the sentence of imprisonment, without any reduction for parole or supervised release.

(See 8 U.S.C. Section 1326, I.N.A. Section 276.)"

Need me to get more specific dweeb? Also, that is how citizenship works in most developed countries, if you are born in a particular country, then you are considered a citizen or national. This concept isn't unique to America and if you thought that it was, then perhaps you need to read some books and good back to school. Keep defending criminals pal.

Gotta love these liberals who know nothing about nothing and who spew absolute bullshit like "it's not a crime to enter the U.S. illegally". Another good one is "it's not a crime to break laws", I mean how dumb is the left? Pretty dumb if you ask me since they can't even grasp basic laws.

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#21 Posted by Celsius765 (2212 posts) -

@Mikey132: Isn't everyone not a native American technically an illegal immigrant descendent. We can't really talk about illegals coming on plundered land.

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#22 Posted by Serraph105 (32262 posts) -

@mattbbpl said:

A win for states' rights. Conservatives will be ecstatic.

lol yes, it's what they've always wanted.

Avatar image for nintendoboy16
#23 Posted by nintendoboy16 (34547 posts) -
@mighty-lu-bu said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

The Hill

Good! BS like this shouldn't happen. Donald can cry all he wants.

People are so stupid in my home state of California that it is unbelievable. These cities are openly aiding illegal immigrants and they should suffer the consequences. How many more innocent people have to die in order for us to completely abolish the lame concept of sanctuary cities?

At risk of everything out of past arguments we had, I'll bite. Just because we have a few bad people, doesn't mean we ruin it for everyone. Why don't the US deport all Brits after the country rebelled from them, and plus, after the right's favorite immigrant for everything he said?

Hell, should the UK deport all Irish for the freaking IRA? As well as some on-going anti-British stances from them?

Avatar image for perfect_blue
#24 Edited by Perfect_Blue (30680 posts) -
@mighty-lu-bu said:

"The immigration law actually uses the term "improper entry," which has a broad meaning. It’s more than just slipping across the U.S. border at an unguarded point. Improper entry can include:

  • entering or attempting to enter the United States at any time or place other than one designated by U.S. immigration officers (in other words, away from a border inspection point or other port of entry)
  • eluding examination or inspection by U.S. immigration officers (people have tried everything from digging tunnels to hiding in the trunk of a friend’s car)
  • attempting to enter or obtain entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or willful concealment of a material fact (which might include, for example, lying on a visa application or buying a false green card or other entry document).

(See Title 8, Section 1325 of the U.S. Code (U.S.C.), or Section 275 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (I.N.A.) for the exact statutory language - www.uscis.gov/laws/immigration-and-nationality-act.)

Criminal Penalties

For the first improper entry offense, the person can be fined (as a criminal penalty), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. For a subsequent offense, the person can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, I.N.A. Section 275.)

But just in case that isn’t enough to deter illegal entrants, a separate section of the law adds penalties for reentry (or attempted reentry) in cases where the person had been convicted of certain types of crimes and thus removed (deported) from the U.S., as follows:

(1) People removed for a conviction of three or more misdemeanors involving drugs, crimes against the person, or both, or a felony (other than an aggravated felony), shall be fined, imprisoned for up to ten years, or both.

(2) People removed for a conviction of an aggravated felony shall be fined, imprisoned for up to 20 years, or both.

(3) People who were excluded or removed from the United States for security reasons shall be fined, and imprisoned for up to ten years, which sentence shall not run concurrently with any other sentence.

(4) Nonviolent offenders who were removed from the United States before their prison sentence was up shall be fined, imprisoned for up to ten years, or both.

What’s more, someone deported before a prison sentence was complete may be incarcerated for the remainder of the sentence of imprisonment, without any reduction for parole or supervised release.

(See 8 U.S.C. Section 1326, I.N.A. Section 276.)"

Need me to get more specific dweeb? Also, that is how citizenship works in most developed countries, if you are born in a particular country, then you are considered a citizen or national. This concept isn't unique to America and if you thought that it was, then perhaps you need to read some books and good back to school. Keep defending criminals pal.

Gotta love these liberals who know nothing about nothing and who spew absolute bullshit like "it's not a crime to enter the U.S. illegally". Another good one is "it's not a crime to break laws", I mean how dumb is the left? Pretty dumb if you ask me since they can't even grasp basic laws.

Weren't you harping yesterday about decency and morals? Look at all the insults and condescension in your post lol. What a hypocrite.

Your post doesn't mention that most illegal immigrants just overstay their visa, which actually isn't a criminal offence at all but a civil one, thus they can't be criminals. It's telling that you don't actually know these things and needed to copy and paste verbatim something you found off Google. Maybe it's you who doesn't actually understand how illegal immigration laws function. And no where did I say anything was unique to America lol, you're even making stuff up for reasons to insult people. How sad and insecure you must be.

Avatar image for n64dd
#25 Posted by N64DD (9624 posts) -

@perfect_blue said:
@mighty-lu-bu said:

"The immigration law actually uses the term "improper entry," which has a broad meaning. It’s more than just slipping across the U.S. border at an unguarded point. Improper entry can include:

  • entering or attempting to enter the United States at any time or place other than one designated by U.S. immigration officers (in other words, away from a border inspection point or other port of entry)
  • eluding examination or inspection by U.S. immigration officers (people have tried everything from digging tunnels to hiding in the trunk of a friend’s car)
  • attempting to enter or obtain entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or willful concealment of a material fact (which might include, for example, lying on a visa application or buying a false green card or other entry document).

(See Title 8, Section 1325 of the U.S. Code (U.S.C.), or Section 275 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (I.N.A.) for the exact statutory language - www.uscis.gov/laws/immigration-and-nationality-act.)

Criminal Penalties

For the first improper entry offense, the person can be fined (as a criminal penalty), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. For a subsequent offense, the person can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, I.N.A. Section 275.)

But just in case that isn’t enough to deter illegal entrants, a separate section of the law adds penalties for reentry (or attempted reentry) in cases where the person had been convicted of certain types of crimes and thus removed (deported) from the U.S., as follows:

(1) People removed for a conviction of three or more misdemeanors involving drugs, crimes against the person, or both, or a felony (other than an aggravated felony), shall be fined, imprisoned for up to ten years, or both.

(2) People removed for a conviction of an aggravated felony shall be fined, imprisoned for up to 20 years, or both.

(3) People who were excluded or removed from the United States for security reasons shall be fined, and imprisoned for up to ten years, which sentence shall not run concurrently with any other sentence.

(4) Nonviolent offenders who were removed from the United States before their prison sentence was up shall be fined, imprisoned for up to ten years, or both.

What’s more, someone deported before a prison sentence was complete may be incarcerated for the remainder of the sentence of imprisonment, without any reduction for parole or supervised release.

(See 8 U.S.C. Section 1326, I.N.A. Section 276.)"

Need me to get more specific dweeb? Also, that is how citizenship works in most developed countries, if you are born in a particular country, then you are considered a citizen or national. This concept isn't unique to America and if you thought that it was, then perhaps you need to read some books and good back to school. Keep defending criminals pal.

Gotta love these liberals who know nothing about nothing and who spew absolute bullshit like "it's not a crime to enter the U.S. illegally". Another good one is "it's not a crime to break laws", I mean how dumb is the left? Pretty dumb if you ask me since they can't even grasp basic laws.

Weren't you harping yesterday about decency and morals? Look at all the insults and condescension in your post lol. What a hypocrite.

Your post doesn't mention that most illegal immigrants just overstay their visa, which actually isn't a criminal offence at all but a civil one, thus they can't be criminals. It's telling that you don't actually know these things and needed to copy and paste verbatim something you found off Google. Maybe it's you who doesn't actually understand how illegal immigration laws function. And no where did I say anything was unique to America lol, you're even making stuff up for reasons to insult people. How sad and insecure you must be.

I think illegal immigrants that let their visa's laps are manipulating the system and it's needs to be ratified. In this current state though, I agree that they are not breaking the law.

Can we agree the ones that are not breaking the law should not be here though?

Avatar image for mighty-lu-bu
#26 Edited by Mighty-Lu-Bu (2966 posts) -
@nintendoboy16 said:
@mighty-lu-bu said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

The Hill

Good! BS like this shouldn't happen. Donald can cry all he wants.

People are so stupid in my home state of California that it is unbelievable. These cities are openly aiding illegal immigrants and they should suffer the consequences. How many more innocent people have to die in order for us to completely abolish the lame concept of sanctuary cities?

At risk of everything out of past arguments we had, I'll bite. Just because we have a few bad people, doesn't mean we ruin it for everyone. Why don't the US deport all Brits after the country rebelled from them, and plus, after the right's favorite immigrant for everything he said?

Hell, should the UK deport all Irish for the freaking IRA? As well as some on-going anti-British stances from them?

Now you are trying to shift the argument.

You need to realize that people that come into the United States illegally are criminals because if you enter the U.S. illegally that in itself is a crime. I don't care what the UK does, I only care what happens to the U.S. The UK had a really liberal immigration process and they lost London as a result. Last I checked, Muhammad was one of the most common names in London so because of their liberal immigration policies, they have completely lost their culture and values in that city. I do not want the same thing to happen in America and I think it is very important that we preserve our values and traditions as Americans.

Let me ask you a question, do you believe that laws should be followed? If you don't believe laws should be followed, then do you believe in anarchy? People that openly break laws should not be given citizenship and this also applies to DACA children- if parents illegally came into America so that their children could be born in America and become "citizens by birth", they broke the law and their children shouldn't be acknowledged as citizens.

Avatar image for nepu7supastar7
#27 Posted by nepu7supastar7 (4223 posts) -

@nintendoboy16:

I wonder what Trump will say about his presidency after all of this is over.

Avatar image for perfect_blue
#28 Posted by Perfect_Blue (30680 posts) -
@n64dd said:

I think illegal immigrants that let their visa's laps are manipulating the system and it's needs to be ratified. In this current state though, I agree that they are not breaking the law.

Can we agree the ones that are not breaking the law should not be here though?

Well it does get ratified - if they get caught they get deported.

I can't agree with that because I haven't read a good argument for it. Without illegal immigration certain states' economies would completely tank without that cheap labour that the average American citizen doesn't want to do, or can't compete with the average illegal immigrant from Mexico or where ever. They also pay taxes via sales tax, gas tax, other taxes, and even income taxes all without reaping very little of the benefits compared to the average citizen.

These are contributing members of society who put in a lot more than they take out and frankly, I find it utter lunacy that anyone would advocate uprooting millions of people and lose all that economic productivity. I just don't see any rationale for it that isn't rooted in racism and fear of the other. Never mind the moral arguments of tearing up families and that deporting illegals is essentially a death sentence when they return home. Additionally, the fact is it isn't possible resource-wise to deport and/or imprison every single illegal immigrant. There are more pressing matters to address in the US.

I am not opposed to deporting and/or jailing illegal immigrants who have committed crimes. Though the crime rate of illegal immigrants is much lower than the average population.

Avatar image for mighty-lu-bu
#29 Edited by Mighty-Lu-Bu (2966 posts) -
@perfect_blue said:
@mighty-lu-bu said:

"The immigration law actually uses the term "improper entry," which has a broad meaning. It’s more than just slipping across the U.S. border at an unguarded point. Improper entry can include:

  • entering or attempting to enter the United States at any time or place other than one designated by U.S. immigration officers (in other words, away from a border inspection point or other port of entry)
  • eluding examination or inspection by U.S. immigration officers (people have tried everything from digging tunnels to hiding in the trunk of a friend’s car)
  • attempting to enter or obtain entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or willful concealment of a material fact (which might include, for example, lying on a visa application or buying a false green card or other entry document).

(See Title 8, Section 1325 of the U.S. Code (U.S.C.), or Section 275 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (I.N.A.) for the exact statutory language - www.uscis.gov/laws/immigration-and-nationality-act.)

Criminal Penalties

For the first improper entry offense, the person can be fined (as a criminal penalty), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. For a subsequent offense, the person can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, I.N.A. Section 275.)

But just in case that isn’t enough to deter illegal entrants, a separate section of the law adds penalties for reentry (or attempted reentry) in cases where the person had been convicted of certain types of crimes and thus removed (deported) from the U.S., as follows:

(1) People removed for a conviction of three or more misdemeanors involving drugs, crimes against the person, or both, or a felony (other than an aggravated felony), shall be fined, imprisoned for up to ten years, or both.

(2) People removed for a conviction of an aggravated felony shall be fined, imprisoned for up to 20 years, or both.

(3) People who were excluded or removed from the United States for security reasons shall be fined, and imprisoned for up to ten years, which sentence shall not run concurrently with any other sentence.

(4) Nonviolent offenders who were removed from the United States before their prison sentence was up shall be fined, imprisoned for up to ten years, or both.

What’s more, someone deported before a prison sentence was complete may be incarcerated for the remainder of the sentence of imprisonment, without any reduction for parole or supervised release.

(See 8 U.S.C. Section 1326, I.N.A. Section 276.)"

Need me to get more specific dweeb? Also, that is how citizenship works in most developed countries, if you are born in a particular country, then you are considered a citizen or national. This concept isn't unique to America and if you thought that it was, then perhaps you need to read some books and good back to school. Keep defending criminals pal.

Gotta love these liberals who know nothing about nothing and who spew absolute bullshit like "it's not a crime to enter the U.S. illegally". Another good one is "it's not a crime to break laws", I mean how dumb is the left? Pretty dumb if you ask me since they can't even grasp basic laws.

Weren't you harping yesterday about decency and morals? Look at all the insults and condescension in your post lol. What a hypocrite.

Your post doesn't mention that most illegal immigrants just overstay their visa, which actually isn't a criminal offence at all but a civil one, thus they can't be criminals. It's telling that you don't actually know these things and needed to copy and paste verbatim something you found off Google. Maybe it's you who doesn't actually understand how illegal immigration laws function. And no where did I say anything was unique to America lol, you're even making stuff up for reasons to insult people. How sad and insecure you must be.

I have morals and I am decent to people who are decent to me, but you have never acted decent to me so why should I act decent to you? You, like other leftists here do nothing, but spew nonsense and you try to push radical left ideas that are morally inept. The fact that you don't seem to care about people who overstay their visa and you don't seem to have much of a problem with illegal immigrants proves that you have questionable motives. Are you loyal to America and your fellow Americans or are you loyal to illegal immigrants and individuals who lack morals, who are manipulating the system so that they can stay in our country?

Of course people who overstay their visa aren't criminals, but I would argue that this is why we need immigration reform, however, crossing the border illegally is a crime. Do you acknowledge this? Overstaying on a visa is a loophole that needs to be rectified.

Avatar image for horgen
#30 Posted by Horgen (117438 posts) -

Is he using Twitter again?

Avatar image for n64dd
#31 Posted by N64DD (9624 posts) -

@perfect_blue said:
@n64dd said:

I think illegal immigrants that let their visa's laps are manipulating the system and it's needs to be ratified. In this current state though, I agree that they are not breaking the law.

Can we agree the ones that are not breaking the law should not be here though?

Well it does get ratified - if they get caught they get deported.

I can't agree with that because I haven't read a good argument for it. Without illegal immigration certain states' economies would completely tank without that cheap labour that the average American citizen doesn't want to do, or can't compete with the average illegal immigrant from Mexico or where ever. They also pay taxes via sales tax, gas tax, other taxes, and even income taxes all without reaping very little of the benefits compared to the average citizen.

These are contributing members of society who put in a lot more than they take out and frankly, I find it utter lunacy that anyone would advocate uprooting millions of people and lose all that economic productivity. I just don't see any rationale for it that isn't rooted in racism and fear of the other. Never mind the moral arguments of tearing up families and that deporting illegals is essentially a death sentence when they return home. Additionally, the fact is it isn't possible resource-wise to deport and/or imprison every single illegal immigrant. There are more pressing matters to address in the US.

I am not opposed to deporting and/or jailing illegal immigrants who have committed crimes. Though the crime rate of illegal immigrants is much lower than the average population.

That is a good argument for it. We do disagree but that is very well thought out and I see your point of view.

Question for you. I'm not talking about people that overstayed their welcome on visas, but other illegal immigrants that came here illegally. Do you think the health issues they bring are not a problem? Where do you stand on that?

Avatar image for nintendoboy16
#32 Posted by nintendoboy16 (34547 posts) -
@mighty-lu-bu said:
@nintendoboy16 said:
@mighty-lu-bu said:

People are so stupid in my home state of California that it is unbelievable. These cities are openly aiding illegal immigrants and they should suffer the consequences. How many more innocent people have to die in order for us to completely abolish the lame concept of sanctuary cities?

At risk of everything out of past arguments we had, I'll bite. Just because we have a few bad people, doesn't mean we ruin it for everyone. Why don't the US deport all Brits after the country rebelled from them, and plus, after the right's favorite immigrant for everything he said?

Hell, should the UK deport all Irish for the freaking IRA? As well as some on-going anti-British stances from them?

Now you are trying to shift the argument.

You need to realize that people that come into the United States illegally are criminals because if you enter the U.S. illegally that in itself is a crime. I don't care what the UK does, I only care what happens to the U.S. The UK had a really liberal immigration process and they lost London as a result. Last I checked, Muhammad was one of the most common names in London so because of their liberal immigration policies, they have completely lost their culture and values in that city. I do not want the same thing to happen in America and I think it is very important that we preserve our values and traditions as Americans.

Let me ask you a question, do you believe that laws should be followed? If you don't believe laws should be followed, then do you believe in anarchy? People that openly break laws should not be given citizenship and this also applies to DACA children- if parents illegally came into America so that their children could be born in America and become "citizens by birth", they broke the law and their children shouldn't be acknowledged as citizens.

"I don't care what the UK does, I only care what happens to the U.S. The UK had a really liberal immigration process and they lost London as a result. Last I checked, Muhammad was one of the most common names in London so because of their liberal immigration policies, they have completely lost their culture and values in that city. I do not want the same thing to happen in America and I think it is very important that we preserve our values and traditions as Americans."

That's not a contradictory statement at all. And "lost their culture?" Really, because I lived in England for four years and they still seem to have it, even in the few times I visited London.

And here we are with the "it's the law" argument again. Just because it's the law, doesn't make it less BS. If Trump made it legal to kill anyone who doesn't dare agree with him and authorized a strike on a protest to have armed soldiers and police to kill all protesters and anyone who disagrees with him (ala something like China in the late 80's at Tiananmen Square), would you still say "law is the law and those leftist cucks had it coming anyway"?

Avatar image for mighty-lu-bu
#33 Posted by Mighty-Lu-Bu (2966 posts) -
@nintendoboy16 said:
@mighty-lu-bu said:
@nintendoboy16 said:
@mighty-lu-bu said:

People are so stupid in my home state of California that it is unbelievable. These cities are openly aiding illegal immigrants and they should suffer the consequences. How many more innocent people have to die in order for us to completely abolish the lame concept of sanctuary cities?

At risk of everything out of past arguments we had, I'll bite. Just because we have a few bad people, doesn't mean we ruin it for everyone. Why don't the US deport all Brits after the country rebelled from them, and plus, after the right's favorite immigrant for everything he said?

Hell, should the UK deport all Irish for the freaking IRA? As well as some on-going anti-British stances from them?

Now you are trying to shift the argument.

You need to realize that people that come into the United States illegally are criminals because if you enter the U.S. illegally that in itself is a crime. I don't care what the UK does, I only care what happens to the U.S. The UK had a really liberal immigration process and they lost London as a result. Last I checked, Muhammad was one of the most common names in London so because of their liberal immigration policies, they have completely lost their culture and values in that city. I do not want the same thing to happen in America and I think it is very important that we preserve our values and traditions as Americans.

Let me ask you a question, do you believe that laws should be followed? If you don't believe laws should be followed, then do you believe in anarchy? People that openly break laws should not be given citizenship and this also applies to DACA children- if parents illegally came into America so that their children could be born in America and become "citizens by birth", they broke the law and their children shouldn't be acknowledged as citizens.

"I don't care what the UK does, I only care what happens to the U.S. The UK had a really liberal immigration process and they lost London as a result. Last I checked, Muhammad was one of the most common names in London so because of their liberal immigration policies, they have completely lost their culture and values in that city. I do not want the same thing to happen in America and I think it is very important that we preserve our values and traditions as Americans."

That's not a contradictory statement at all. And "lost their culture?" Really, because I lived in England for four years and they still seem to have it, even in the few times I visited London.

And here we are with the "it's the law" argument again. Just because it's the law, doesn't make it less BS. If Trump made it legal to kill anyone who doesn't dare agree with him and authorized a strike on a protest to have armed soldiers and police to kill all protesters and anyone who disagrees with him (ala something like China in the late 80's at Tiananmen Square), would you still say "law is the law and those leftist cucks had it coming anyway"?

There you go with another argument shift again, so I suggest you try to stay on topic. This isn't about Trump making laws that kill people, this is about a group of people who are refusing to acknowledge the laws that we have established in this country.

You either believe that laws should be followed or you believe that laws shouldn't be followed- what is it? From what you have said, it seems that you don't believe that the laws of our country should be followed and enforced and I have major issues with this way of thinking.

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#34 Posted by Jacanuk (13295 posts) -
@nintendoboy16 said:

The Hill

President Trump on Thursday argued sanctuary cities are making America less safe in the wake of a court ruling that blocked his administration from limiting grant funding for such jurisdictions.

“Sanctuary Cities released at least 142 gang members across the United States, making it easy for them to commit all forms of violent crimes where none should have existed.”

“We are doing a great job of law enforcement, but things such as this make safety in America difficult!” he added.

The president appeared to be referencing Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) statistics released earlier this week that showed 142 gang members it sought to deport were released by local law enforcement between Oct. 1, 2016, and June 19, 2017.

The report noted all but one of the releases took place in a “sanctuary jurisdiction,” where local police do not enforce federal immigration law, according to the Center for Immigration Studies.

Trump has frequently railed against sanctuary cities, taking particular aim in recent days at California for its laws.

He said earlier Thursday there’s “a little bit of a revolution going on in California” because some residents don’t agree with the state’s immigration policies. He has previously thanked Orange County, Calif., for resisting state laws by joining a Justice Department lawsuit against the state.

The Justice Department is suing California over its sanctuary laws, and has attempted to withhold funding intended for local law enforcement from municipalities that implement sanctuary policies.

However, a federal appeals court in Chicago on Thursday struck a blow to the latter initiative when it upheld a nationwide injunction that blocks the administration from putting certain conditions on federal grant funding to force sanctuary cities to comply with immigration enforcement efforts.

Good! BS like this shouldn't happen. Donald can cry all he wants.

How sweet another lower court judge who wants to put his name in the democrat book of honour.

It´s pretty insane that they do not care at all about the legal issues.

Avatar image for mattbbpl
#35 Edited by mattbbpl (15317 posts) -

@Jacanuk: So you are in favor of federal law enforcement agencies being able to commandeer state and local law enforcement resources?

Avatar image for nintendoboy16
#36 Posted by nintendoboy16 (34547 posts) -
@mighty-lu-bu said:
@nintendoboy16 said:
@mighty-lu-bu said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

At risk of everything out of past arguments we had, I'll bite. Just because we have a few bad people, doesn't mean we ruin it for everyone. Why don't the US deport all Brits after the country rebelled from them, and plus, after the right's favorite immigrant for everything he said?

Hell, should the UK deport all Irish for the freaking IRA? As well as some on-going anti-British stances from them?

Now you are trying to shift the argument.

You need to realize that people that come into the United States illegally are criminals because if you enter the U.S. illegally that in itself is a crime. I don't care what the UK does, I only care what happens to the U.S. The UK had a really liberal immigration process and they lost London as a result. Last I checked, Muhammad was one of the most common names in London so because of their liberal immigration policies, they have completely lost their culture and values in that city. I do not want the same thing to happen in America and I think it is very important that we preserve our values and traditions as Americans.

Let me ask you a question, do you believe that laws should be followed? If you don't believe laws should be followed, then do you believe in anarchy? People that openly break laws should not be given citizenship and this also applies to DACA children- if parents illegally came into America so that their children could be born in America and become "citizens by birth", they broke the law and their children shouldn't be acknowledged as citizens.

"I don't care what the UK does, I only care what happens to the U.S. The UK had a really liberal immigration process and they lost London as a result. Last I checked, Muhammad was one of the most common names in London so because of their liberal immigration policies, they have completely lost their culture and values in that city. I do not want the same thing to happen in America and I think it is very important that we preserve our values and traditions as Americans."

That's not a contradictory statement at all. And "lost their culture?" Really, because I lived in England for four years and they still seem to have it, even in the few times I visited London.

And here we are with the "it's the law" argument again. Just because it's the law, doesn't make it less BS. If Trump made it legal to kill anyone who doesn't dare agree with him and authorized a strike on a protest to have armed soldiers and police to kill all protesters and anyone who disagrees with him (ala something like China in the late 80's at Tiananmen Square), would you still say "law is the law and those leftist cucks had it coming anyway"?

There you go with another argument shift again, so I suggest you try to stay on topic. This isn't about Trump making laws that kill people, this is about a group of people who are refusing to acknowledge the laws that we have established in this country.

You either believe that laws should be followed or you believe that laws shouldn't be followed- what is it? From what you have said, it seems that you don't believe that the laws of our country should be followed and enforced and I have major issues with this way of thinking.

"This isn't about Trump making laws that kill people," which I only brought up for a theoretical example of what could be done because "the law". So no, I shifted nothing.

Again, "the law" is a complicated issue, considering there are things that shouldn't even be the law. People under DACA, for example, were legal, until Trump demolished it (though he blames the Democrats for it). And it's the left that has no regard for the law? Give me a break, you guys flip everytime Obama made a law you didn't agree with, even if it actually benefit hard working citizens and the economy.

Avatar image for n64dd
#37 Posted by N64DD (9624 posts) -

@nintendoboy16 said:
@mighty-lu-bu said:
@nintendoboy16 said:
@mighty-lu-bu said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

At risk of everything out of past arguments we had, I'll bite. Just because we have a few bad people, doesn't mean we ruin it for everyone. Why don't the US deport all Brits after the country rebelled from them, and plus, after the right's favorite immigrant for everything he said?

Hell, should the UK deport all Irish for the freaking IRA? As well as some on-going anti-British stances from them?

Now you are trying to shift the argument.

You need to realize that people that come into the United States illegally are criminals because if you enter the U.S. illegally that in itself is a crime. I don't care what the UK does, I only care what happens to the U.S. The UK had a really liberal immigration process and they lost London as a result. Last I checked, Muhammad was one of the most common names in London so because of their liberal immigration policies, they have completely lost their culture and values in that city. I do not want the same thing to happen in America and I think it is very important that we preserve our values and traditions as Americans.

Let me ask you a question, do you believe that laws should be followed? If you don't believe laws should be followed, then do you believe in anarchy? People that openly break laws should not be given citizenship and this also applies to DACA children- if parents illegally came into America so that their children could be born in America and become "citizens by birth", they broke the law and their children shouldn't be acknowledged as citizens.

"I don't care what the UK does, I only care what happens to the U.S. The UK had a really liberal immigration process and they lost London as a result. Last I checked, Muhammad was one of the most common names in London so because of their liberal immigration policies, they have completely lost their culture and values in that city. I do not want the same thing to happen in America and I think it is very important that we preserve our values and traditions as Americans."

That's not a contradictory statement at all. And "lost their culture?" Really, because I lived in England for four years and they still seem to have it, even in the few times I visited London.

And here we are with the "it's the law" argument again. Just because it's the law, doesn't make it less BS. If Trump made it legal to kill anyone who doesn't dare agree with him and authorized a strike on a protest to have armed soldiers and police to kill all protesters and anyone who disagrees with him (ala something like China in the late 80's at Tiananmen Square), would you still say "law is the law and those leftist cucks had it coming anyway"?

There you go with another argument shift again, so I suggest you try to stay on topic. This isn't about Trump making laws that kill people, this is about a group of people who are refusing to acknowledge the laws that we have established in this country.

You either believe that laws should be followed or you believe that laws shouldn't be followed- what is it? From what you have said, it seems that you don't believe that the laws of our country should be followed and enforced and I have major issues with this way of thinking.

"This isn't about Trump making laws that kill people," which I only brought up for a theoretical example of what could be done because "the law". So no, I shifted nothing.

Again, "the law" is a complicated issue, considering there are things that shouldn't even be the law. People under DACA, for example, were legal, until Trump demolished it (though he blames the Democrats for it). And it's the left that has no regard for the law? Give me a break, you guys flip everytime Obama made a law you didn't agree with, even if it actually benefit hard working citizens and the economy.

DACA wasn't done to improve our way of life, it was to gain the Hispanic vote.

It should have never been a law and we need to tighten up the loopholes on illegal immigration.

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#38 Posted by Horgen (117438 posts) -

@n64dd said:

DACA wasn't done to improve our way of life, it was to gain the Hispanic vote.

It should have never been a law and we need to tighten up the loopholes on illegal immigration.

It was one possible answer to children who doesn't really have another home. Being somewhat humane and understanding about the position they are in. (I am not disagreeing with parts of your second line)...

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#39 Posted by DrLostRib (3927 posts) -
@Jacanuk said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

The Hill

Good! BS like this shouldn't happen. Donald can cry all he wants.

How sweet another lower court judge who wants to put his name in the democrat book of honour.

It´s pretty insane that they do not care at all about the legal issues.

The 3 judge panel is made up of judges appointed by republican presidents

And they do seem to care about the legal issues at hand in the case mainly the separations of power, they're not ruling on immigration laws

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#40 Posted by DrLostRib (3927 posts) -
@mighty-lu-bu said:
@n64dd said:
@mighty-lu-bu said:
@n64dd said:
@theone86 said:

Yeah, I mean, it couldn't be about the studies showing that when illegal immigrants feel comfortable enough to cooperate with local law enforcement communities get safer for legal citizens, non-citizens, and police officers alike. No, it's just that crazy liberal agenda.

Illegal immigrants shouldn't be here. What do you not understand about ILLEGAL?

This is what the left doesn't understand, illegal immigrants are criminals. Why? Because they broke the laws of our federal government in order to get into our country. They aren't citizens, they don't have constitutional rights and they don't deserve to stay. I am pro immigration, but I am 100% against illegal immigration.

Incoming response from the left how illegal immigrants don't hurt anybody so breaking the law doesn't mean anything.

Yeah, tell that to the poor young woman who got murdered by an illegal immigrant in San Francisco. The city of San Francisco refused to detain the illegal immigrant and refused to work with ICE- they should be charged with treason. Drastic I know, but we need to send a message to these sanctuary cities because all they are doing is aiding criminals.

that's not how treason works, and frankly unamerican to suggest such a thing

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#41 Posted by Mighty-Lu-Bu (2966 posts) -

@drlostrib said:
@mighty-lu-bu said:
@n64dd said:
@mighty-lu-bu said:
@n64dd said:

Illegal immigrants shouldn't be here. What do you not understand about ILLEGAL?

This is what the left doesn't understand, illegal immigrants are criminals. Why? Because they broke the laws of our federal government in order to get into our country. They aren't citizens, they don't have constitutional rights and they don't deserve to stay. I am pro immigration, but I am 100% against illegal immigration.

Incoming response from the left how illegal immigrants don't hurt anybody so breaking the law doesn't mean anything.

Yeah, tell that to the poor young woman who got murdered by an illegal immigrant in San Francisco. The city of San Francisco refused to detain the illegal immigrant and refused to work with ICE- they should be charged with treason. Drastic I know, but we need to send a message to these sanctuary cities because all they are doing is aiding criminals.

that's not how treason works, and frankly unamerican to suggest such a thing

So they jeopardized the safety of U.S. citizens which resulted in the murder of a U.S. citizen- what would the punishment be? They also released the illegal immigrant who was involved and they refused to work with ICE.

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#42 Posted by DrLostRib (3927 posts) -
@mighty-lu-bu said:
@drlostrib said:
@mighty-lu-bu said:
@n64dd said:

Incoming response from the left how illegal immigrants don't hurt anybody so breaking the law doesn't mean anything.

Yeah, tell that to the poor young woman who got murdered by an illegal immigrant in San Francisco. The city of San Francisco refused to detain the illegal immigrant and refused to work with ICE- they should be charged with treason. Drastic I know, but we need to send a message to these sanctuary cities because all they are doing is aiding criminals.

that's not how treason works, and frankly unamerican to suggest such a thing

So they jeopardized the safety of U.S. citizens which resulted in the murder of a U.S. citizen- what would the punishment be? They also released the illegal immigrant who was involved and they refused to work with ICE.

Who is they? who are you going to charge?

And if you're talking about the shooting at the SF pier, the man was acquitted.

I was just pointing out that the crime of treason is specifically outlined to avoid its misuse

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#43 Posted by theone86 (21555 posts) -
@Mikey132 said:

@theone86: Communities are safer without the illegals in the first place.

The data says you are flat-out wrong.

@n64dd said:

Illegal immigrants shouldn't be here. What do you not understand about ILLEGAL?

What do you not understand about it making communities safer to allow police to have a trusting relationship with illegal immigrants? Stealing is illegal too, but do people still steal? Yes. Almost invariably when there's a law someone will break it. The problem, then, is not so much that the law is being broken but the effects of the law being broken. Here the effects are that people live their lives in the U.S. (oh, the humanity) and if we don't use local law enforcement to punish them it makes our communities safer. If letting thieves off the hook would prevent murders I'd be for that, too.

And by the way, no one's disputing that what they're doing is illegal so your entire post is tangential anyway. The question is how we should enforce the law, and the fact that they're breaking the law has no bearing on that.

@mighty-lu-bu said:

Yeah, tell that to the poor young woman who got murdered by an illegal immigrant in San Francisco. The city of San Francisco refused to detain the illegal immigrant and refused to work with ICE- they should be charged with treason. Drastic I know, but we need to send a message to these sanctuary cities because all they are doing is aiding criminals.

This is what the left doesn't understand, illegal immigrants are criminals. Why? Because they broke the laws of our federal government in order to get into our country. They aren't citizens, they don't have constitutional rights and they don't deserve to stay. I am pro immigration, but I am 100% against illegal immigration.

If the left had it's way, people would just come into our country unchallenged and we would completely lose our culture, but of course they don't think in these terms because they feel bad for illegal immigrants. Why feel bad for a bunch of criminals who have no right to be in our country in the first place? They don't respect our laws or our culture so why should we suddenly grant these criminals citizenship? Sorry, but American citizenship is not given out like jelly beans, it is earned.

You're still harping about that one debunked incident? I swear, if we made as much of a fuss about white people being a menace every time an unhinged white shooter went out and killed somebody we'd never hear the end of it. How many white shooters have there been this year already, and with them it's all "Oh, they're just misguided/mentally ill/they play too many video games," but one immigrant kills someone BY ACCIDENT and we're still hearing about it three years later. He's in prison, by the way, so it's not like he's escaping justice.

If you're pro-immigration then I'm assuming you're not supportive of the GOP's attempts to reduce LEGAL immigration in their latest immigration bill, correct?

Oh, and thanks for mentioning culture and showing your true hand. You talk and talk and talk all you want about the law, but you just proved to everybody that you're waging a culture war. Personally, I'm not afraid of losing my culture. I welcome multiculturalism and I don't think that being exposed to other cultures harms me at all as a white person.

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#44 Posted by sonicare (56034 posts) -

@perfect_blue said:
@mighty-lu-bu said:

This is what the left doesn't understand, illegal immigrants are criminals. Why? Because they broke the laws of our federal government in order to get into our country. They aren't citizens, they don't have constitutional rights and they don't deserve to stay. I am pro immigration, but I am 100% against illegal immigration.

If the left had it's way, people would just come into our country unchallenged and we would completely lose our culture, but of course they don't think in these terms because they feel bad for illegal immigrants. Why feel bad for a bunch of criminals who have no right to be in our country in the first place? They don't respect our laws or our culture so why should we suddenly grant these criminals citizenship? Sorry, but American citizenship is not given out like jelly beans, it is earned.

What crimes do illegal immigrants break to get into the country? Please be specific.

Also, an American citizenship definitely isn't always "earned", lmao. All it takes is to be born on American soil.

Yes, but if you're not born in this country, it is difficult to earn. I have lots of relatives that would do well in this country, many with advanced degrees. Yet they have to go through a very lengthy and arduous process despite having skills that would immediately benefit this country. It is frustrating that other people can just jump the fence and ignore the entire process. Not fair at all. Yes, the immigration process is broken, but why do some people get to cheat the system and others have to go through legitimately?

Avatar image for perfect_blue
#45 Posted by Perfect_Blue (30680 posts) -

@sonicare: The reason some immigrants choose to come to the US illegally is because their lives may be at risk in their home countries. A lot of the immigrants from Central and South America and Mexico are literally running for their lives and may as well be considered refugees, when you look at the places they are running away from. When your life is at risk you aren’t going to choose the option that takes 2-5 years and may fail in the end, you’re going to pick the one that immediately gets you to safety. And because the US has a poor refugee system and doesn’t consider these people refugees, they have no other choice but to come over illegally or stay and risk getting killed.

Avatar image for perfect_blue
#46 Posted by Perfect_Blue (30680 posts) -

@n64dd said:
@perfect_blue said:
@n64dd said:

I think illegal immigrants that let their visa's laps are manipulating the system and it's needs to be ratified. In this current state though, I agree that they are not breaking the law.

Can we agree the ones that are not breaking the law should not be here though?

Well it does get ratified - if they get caught they get deported.

I can't agree with that because I haven't read a good argument for it. Without illegal immigration certain states' economies would completely tank without that cheap labour that the average American citizen doesn't want to do, or can't compete with the average illegal immigrant from Mexico or where ever. They also pay taxes via sales tax, gas tax, other taxes, and even income taxes all without reaping very little of the benefits compared to the average citizen.

These are contributing members of society who put in a lot more than they take out and frankly, I find it utter lunacy that anyone would advocate uprooting millions of people and lose all that economic productivity. I just don't see any rationale for it that isn't rooted in racism and fear of the other. Never mind the moral arguments of tearing up families and that deporting illegals is essentially a death sentence when they return home. Additionally, the fact is it isn't possible resource-wise to deport and/or imprison every single illegal immigrant. There are more pressing matters to address in the US.

I am not opposed to deporting and/or jailing illegal immigrants who have committed crimes. Though the crime rate of illegal immigrants is much lower than the average population.

That is a good argument for it. We do disagree but that is very well thought out and I see your point of view.

Question for you. I'm not talking about people that overstayed their welcome on visas, but other illegal immigrants that came here illegally. Do you think the health issues they bring are not a problem? Where do you stand on that?

What do you disagree with specifically What specific health issues do you mean? People get admitted to hospitals for care regardless of who they are.

Avatar image for sonicare
#47 Posted by sonicare (56034 posts) -

@perfect_blue said:

@sonicare: The reason some immigrants choose to come to the US illegally is because their lives may be at risk in their home countries. A lot of the immigrants from Central and South America and Mexico are literally running for their lives and may as well be considered refugees, when you look at the places they are running away from. When your life is at risk you aren’t going to choose the option that takes 2-5 years and may fail in the end, you’re going to pick the one that immediately gets you to safety. And because the US has a poor refugee system and doesn’t consider these people refugees, they have no other choice but to come over illegally or stay and risk getting killed.

Many people trying to immigrate from asia also are coming for countries where their lives at risk.

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#48 Posted by mattbbpl (15317 posts) -

@Serraph105 said:
@mattbbpl said:

A win for states' rights. Conservatives will be ecstatic.

lol yes, it's what they've always wanted.

Speaking of reframing issues in a favorable light based on the audience's background, we're witnessing cannabis legalization rebranding becoming effecting to the point that it's on the verge of being transpolitical. Now that enough people have embraced the idea that it is (among other things) a states rights issue, it has begun to split the Republican party on the issue enough that, assuming trends continue, it will cease to be a partisan issue. This is powerful stuff (although it takes time and patience to see it through, like grinding a football down the field play by play).

It should be even more powerful in this case because legislation has the luxury of being focused on the short-term, immediate issue at had since it can be altered easily in the future. However, the evaluation of judicial precedent should always be forward looking first. A precedent set here in this case can be used in a way more or less favorable to your preferences during a future case, and judges tend to apply precedent evenly - at least in principle.

I don't believe in that wider light that a states' rights focused conservative would be happy with setting a precedent that the federal government can force the use of state and local law enforcement resources as they see fit.

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#49 Edited by mattbbpl (15317 posts) -

@sonicare said:
@perfect_blue said:

@sonicare: The reason some immigrants choose to come to the US illegally is because their lives may be at risk in their home countries. A lot of the immigrants from Central and South America and Mexico are literally running for their lives and may as well be considered refugees, when you look at the places they are running away from. When your life is at risk you aren’t going to choose the option that takes 2-5 years and may fail in the end, you’re going to pick the one that immediately gets you to safety. And because the US has a poor refugee system and doesn’t consider these people refugees, they have no other choice but to come over illegally or stay and risk getting killed.

Many people trying to immigrate from asia also are coming for countries where their lives at risk.

Are those Asians singled out and excluded from such policies?

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#50 Posted by sonicare (56034 posts) -

@mattbbpl said:
@sonicare said:
@perfect_blue said:

@sonicare: The reason some immigrants choose to come to the US illegally is because their lives may be at risk in their home countries. A lot of the immigrants from Central and South America and Mexico are literally running for their lives and may as well be considered refugees, when you look at the places they are running away from. When your life is at risk you aren’t going to choose the option that takes 2-5 years and may fail in the end, you’re going to pick the one that immediately gets you to safety. And because the US has a poor refugee system and doesn’t consider these people refugees, they have no other choice but to come over illegally or stay and risk getting killed.

Many people trying to immigrate from asia also are coming for countries where their lives at risk.

Are those Asians singled out and excluded from such policies?

They have to wait and go through and incredibly lengthy process in which many of them are denied.