Centrists can cost the Dems in 2020

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texasgoldrush

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#1  Edited By texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 12973 Posts

Seriously,

They seem to want to repeat 2016 all over again. But instead of overconfidence and bluster, they are going to let fear rule them instead.

So we get Biden, a fatally flawed candidate, a gaffe machine whose wife admits that the other candidates may be better in some policies. The center are so sure he can win despite is long record, his tendency to flip flop, is inability to attract large crowds, and history that shows that when either party goes for the "safe" choice, they more often that not, lose. And it seems to me that Trump has been able to poke fun at Biden successfully.

So they want to nominate a candidate that turns off younger voters, depresses the votes, and forces us to rely on voters that flip. That is more of a "risk" than running Warren, who has not only brought out enthusiasm, but has unique strengths that cause trouble for Trump, as well as being able to expand the electorate.

Centrists need to learn from 2016. The fact of the matter is Trump defeated a centrist, not a progressive candidate in 2016. Hilary was in fact more conservative than Obama. Centrists love to talk about how they were key to winning the House, but the facts are that progressive voters made that happen, as well, the centrists took heavy defeats in the Senate races. Centrists do not like talking about their Senate losses. And Clinton's loss is cemented by the fact that progressives went rogue, staying home or voting third party, causing losses in key states. The same will happen with Biden.

And the centrists fear that the Dems will lose the House despite the current polling being at 2018 levels for the generic congress polls, as well as the notion that Congress doesn't swing that much during Presidential elections. But centrist fear......so we have travesties like giving Trump a blank check for his migrant camps.

And who got under Trumps skin last month? It wasn't the centrists. It was the progressive rock stars. They were able to get Trump to make a serious mistake that dinged his poll numbers while at the same time, held their own against the Democrat establishment, and dare I say, got concessions from Pelosi.

Instead of fighting, like progressives do, centrists want to cower in fear. And if you are ruled by fear, Trump will win in 2020 and in other battles going forward.

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mrbojangles25

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#2 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 44633 Posts

Oh, I don't know about all that. We need to stop appealing to the fringe groups and get the moderate, leaning-in-either-direction groups to beat Trump.

I think Biden he is the only one who can really match Trump is gruffness; Biden won't be a politician in that respect, if someone is an asshole he will probably call them an asshole. He is the democratic version of Trump lol.

Trump pokes fun at everyone "successfully". He surrounds himself with yes-men and his fanbase will always laugh with him, it's like the popular kid making a dumb joke then everyone laughs because he is popular.

As for his wife, she was not inherently saying "Biden is not the best choice" she was more or less saying "Biden might not be your choice", and that people might have to swallow their pride for the greater good and vote for their personal less-than-ideal candidate.

I generally vote third party, but I will be heeding her advice and voting democrat this time around. 2020 won't be about ideals, it will be about getting Trump out of office at any cost.

Bernie won't win the election, Pelosi won't, and so on. The only other candidate I have faith in is Pete Buttigieg and unfortunately that is a long shot. Maybe in 8 years he can run again and win.

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WitIsWisdom

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#3  Edited By WitIsWisdom
Member since 2007 • 5430 Posts

Trump is going to win either way.

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Master_Live

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#4 Master_Live
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SolidSnake35

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#5 SolidSnake35
Member since 2005 • 58923 Posts

Do you guys miss Bush?

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PurpleMan5000

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#6 PurpleMan5000
Member since 2011 • 9804 Posts

Biden being a weak candidate has more to do with his age than it does his centrist positions, imo.

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Horgen

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#7 Horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 121398 Posts

@SolidSnake35: some do. The image painted of him now is far better than 5-10 years ago.

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jeezers

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#8  Edited By jeezers  Online
Member since 2007 • 3417 Posts

As someone whos supporting Trump, I see it as the progressives costing the dems the election, not the moderates.

To win an election you can not only appeal to the far left, you need moderates to win.

You guys might not believe this, but both obama and trump had success because some of the stuff they campaigned on appealed to moderates.

I also find it funny you think Warren will fair better against trump than Biden. Pocahontas will get eaten alive by the Don.

Tulsi would have been a great canidate, would have been better than both Biden or Warren. A younger woman canidate with actual experiance serving in the millitary, hard for Trump to find faults. Her record is pretty clean.

But what do i know, im just a silly deplorable.

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ad1x2

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#9 ad1x2  Online
Member since 2005 • 7791 Posts

You need to consider the country as a whole, not just the parts that lean the way you want them to. All Democrats aren’t created equal.

A centralist has a decent chance of winning a presidential election not because most Democrats will automatically vote for them because they’re not Trump, but because those people in the middle may be swayed towards them if they say the right things. Biden probably would have defeated Trump if he ran in 2016 and while Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, there were plenty of other issues unrelated to her political promises that contributed to her defeat.

On the other hand, good luck getting those people in the middle to vote for the candidate that said they want to give illegal aliens that crossed our border this morning free healthcare paid for by their tax dollars tonight. Or the candidate that says they want to raise taxes while blowing our entire GDP for the next ten years on some form of the Green New Deal. They’ll either stay home or vote to reelect Trump.

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mattbbpl

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#10  Edited By mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 17552 Posts

I mean, Trump won. It's pretty clear that non-mainstream candidates can win.

You should probably just vote for who you want to win in the primary. Then switch gears to supporting your preferred option of the two major candidates in the general.

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#11 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 11013 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

I mean, Trump won. It's pretty clear that non-mainstream candidate can win.

You should probably just vote for who you want to win in the primary. Then switch gears to supporting your preferred option of the two major candidates in the general.

Pretty much this. Our system is built around primaries being the place to vie for your 'candidate of choice'. The main election is always going to be a winner takes all scenario so you're better off supporting the closest candidate to your own views.

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LJS9502_basic

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#12 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167548 Posts

@SolidSnake35 said:

Do you guys miss Bush?

I'd take him over trump...……….

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jeezers

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#13 jeezers  Online
Member since 2007 • 3417 Posts

@SolidSnake35: hated bush, sold us out on trade and lots of war in the middle east.

When he was president, I considered myself a liberal.

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texasgoldrush

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#14  Edited By texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 12973 Posts

@Master_Live said:

Nate Silver is wrong. I think he means Goldwater, McGovern, Mondale, and Dukakis. None of them lost because they were too conservative or liberal, they lost because they either ran against a popular incumbent, or ran a wretched campaign.

We also had FDR, Reagan, and Trump, who were viewed as too extreme during the years they ran, win.

And "safe" candidates generally have a history of losing as well, especially the last 10 or so election cycles. Bob Dole, Al Gore, John Kerry, John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Hillary Clinton were all viewed as "safe", "sure bets" and they were anything but. Joe Biden fits right on this list.

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texasgoldrush

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#15 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 12973 Posts

@ad1x2 said:

You need to consider the country as a whole, not just the parts that lean the way you want them to. All Democrats aren’t created equal.

A centralist has a decent chance of winning a presidential election not because most Democrats will automatically vote for them because they’re not Trump, but because those people in the middle may be swayed towards them if they say the right things. Biden probably would have defeated Trump if he ran in 2016 and while Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, there were plenty of other issues unrelated to her political promises that contributed to her defeat.

On the other hand, good luck getting those people in the middle to vote for the candidate that said they want to give illegal aliens that crossed our border this morning free healthcare paid for by their tax dollars tonight. Or the candidate that says they want to raise taxes while blowing our entire GDP for the next ten years on some form of the Green New Deal. They’ll either stay home or vote to reelect Trump.

Biden would not have. I think Biden would have won the popular vote by a bigger margin, but his platform and issues in 2016 were just like Hillary's. Once again, Trump won midwest votes and the region by running "to the left" of Clinton on trade. Biden had the same position as Clinton on trade and Trump would have been able to use his record against him.

And once again, Clinton won the center, she won in Orange County California for example, and she won the suburbs , but she still lost because progressives abandoned her. They didn't show up in 4 states and it proved fatal. In fact, Jill Stein had more votes than Trumps margin of victory in those states. Voter depression is a real issue. If you do not get out your vote, which Clinton did not, you lose.

And the Green New Deal has consistently polled well with Americans, so I would not bring that up in your argument. Even Biden riffs on it and mentions it in his plagiarized climate plan.

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#16 ProtossRushX
Member since 2007 • 5707 Posts

We need a strong democrat like Warren/Sanders. The Centrist don't have a chance vs trump. Biden is a instant lose why can't people see that?

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texasgoldrush

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#17 texasgoldrush
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@jeezers said:

As someone whos supporting Trump, I see it as the progressives costing the dems the election, not the moderates.

To win an election you can not only appeal to the far left, you need moderates to win.

You guys might not believe this, but both obama and trump had success because some of the stuff they campaigned on appealed to moderates.

I also find it funny you think Warren will fair better against trump than Biden. Pocahontas will get eaten alive by the Don.

Tulsi would have been a great canidate, would have been better than both Biden or Warren. A younger woman canidate with actual experiance serving in the millitary, hard for Trump to find faults. Her record is pretty clean.

But what do i know, im just a silly deplorable.

WRONG

Warren may actually be the only candidate that can successfully reduce Trump on the economy. And history has shown that attacking the opponents "strength" is far more effective than attacking his "weaknesses".

Warren's economic expertise allows her to poke holes in Trump's economic performance in ways that Biden, Harris, and even Sanders cannot.

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1163970240482557954

She would be able to run successfully on the notion that Trump will cause a recession. And people will buy into her, because her claim to fame was that she successfully predicted for years, the Great Recession.

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#18 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 36646 Posts

Unfortunately, Centrists still hold the Swing votes.

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joebones5000

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#19 joebones5000
Member since 2016 • 2827 Posts

Most of the country is centrist. Trump got elected on a centrist message and Russian government propaganda. He's doing exactly the opposite of being a centrist. People remember.

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LJS9502_basic

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#20  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167548 Posts

Not sure why you think the center is the problem when most of the country is in the center.

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#21  Edited By texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 12973 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:

Not sure why you think the center is the problem when most of the country is in the center.

Plurality maybe, but not the majority.

And really, many voters do not think about ideology when they vote. Polling in the Dem primary is showing this.

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#22 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 12973 Posts

@joebones5000 said:

Most of the country is centrist. Trump got elected on a centrist message and Russian government propaganda. He's doing exactly the opposite of being a centrist. People remember.

How was his platform centrist?

It was always right wing nationalist, just that the US hasn't seen that ideology in years on the big stage. However, he did shift even more to the right after the election.

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SolidSnake35

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#23 SolidSnake35
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@LJS9502_basic said:
@SolidSnake35 said:

Do you guys miss Bush?

I'd take him over trump...……….

Bush was very endearing. Should've let him rule indefinitely like Xi and China.

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#24 JimB
Member since 2002 • 2584 Posts

@SolidSnake35 said:

Do you guys miss Bush?

Not in the least.

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#25 JimB
Member since 2002 • 2584 Posts

@ProtossRushX said:

We need a strong democrat like Warren/Sanders. The Centrist don't have a chance vs trump. Biden is a instant lose why can't people see that?

Warren and Sanders have a less of a chance. The Democrats can't win on policy because they don't have one. There is nothing they are proposing that is appealing to the American people. Their campaign is beat Trump not what good they can do for the country. The Democrats would be better to forget 2020 regroup and get better programs for 2024.

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#26 SolidSnake35
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@JimB said:
@SolidSnake35 said:

Do you guys miss Bush?

Not in the least.

Anyone that dodges a pair of shoes behind enemy lines is okay in my book.

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#27 joebones5000
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@texasgoldrush said:
@joebones5000 said:

Most of the country is centrist. Trump got elected on a centrist message and Russian government propaganda. He's doing exactly the opposite of being a centrist. People remember.

How was his platform centrist?

It was always right wing nationalist, just that the US hasn't seen that ideology in years on the big stage. However, he did shift even more to the right after the election.

Because he promised tax increases on the rich, tax decreases on the middle class, and a health care plan that was less expensive and covered everyone, while he promised to be a president for everyone - all centrist policies. None of it happened, but he sure did promise these.

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#28 JimB
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@joebones5000 said:
@texasgoldrush said:
@joebones5000 said:

Most of the country is centrist. Trump got elected on a centrist message and Russian government propaganda. He's doing exactly the opposite of being a centrist. People remember.

How was his platform centrist?

It was always right wing nationalist, just that the US hasn't seen that ideology in years on the big stage. However, he did shift even more to the right after the election.

Because he promised tax increases on the rich, tax decreases on the middle class, and a health care plan that was less expensive and covered everyone, while he promised to be a president for everyone - all centrist policies. None of it happened, but he sure did promise these.

He accomplished a number of things he promised to and I am surprised he achieved what he did as he had little help from Republicans, no help from Democrats, phony investigations for over two years, and challenged in court on damn near every policy move he made, and a press that attacks him and his family 24/7. Obama could never have withstood what Trump has had to endure.

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#29 Serraph105
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@JimB: "He accomplished a number of things he promised to and I am surprised he achieved what he did as he had little help from Republicans, no help from Democrats"

What specifically has Trump accomplished that he promised, in your view?

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#30 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 35949 Posts

why should someone support a more extreme progressive that doesn't espouse their personal beliefs?

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#31  Edited By judaspete
Member since 2005 • 3186 Posts

@texasgoldrush said:
@jeezers said:

As someone whos supporting Trump, I see it as the progressives costing the dems the election, not the moderates.

To win an election you can not only appeal to the far left, you need moderates to win.

You guys might not believe this, but both obama and trump had success because some of the stuff they campaigned on appealed to moderates.

I also find it funny you think Warren will fair better against trump than Biden. Pocahontas will get eaten alive by the Don.

Tulsi would have been a great canidate, would have been better than both Biden or Warren. A younger woman canidate with actual experiance serving in the millitary, hard for Trump to find faults. Her record is pretty clean.

But what do i know, im just a silly deplorable.

WRONG

Warren may actually be the only candidate that can successfully reduce Trump on the economy. And history has shown that attacking the opponents "strength" is far more effective than attacking his "weaknesses".

Warren's economic expertise allows her to poke holes in Trump's economic performance in ways that Biden, Harris, and even Sanders cannot.

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1163970240482557954

She would be able to run successfully on the notion that Trump will cause a recession. And people will buy into her, because her claim to fame was that she successfully predicted for years, the Great Recession.

Something else people aren't considering, everyone right or left does not think highly of Wall Street. Even Trump shat all over them while he was running. Reforming Wall Street is the main pillar of Warren's campaign, and this could pull in a wide range of voters. We all saw very recently what kind of damage Wall Street is capable of when a couple dumb ideas catch on.

The Establishment might think of her ideas radical, but they are not really in touch with the electorate. I mean 2016 showed us that, right?

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#32 PurpleMan5000
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@texasgoldrush said:
@ad1x2 said:

You need to consider the country as a whole, not just the parts that lean the way you want them to. All Democrats aren’t created equal.

A centralist has a decent chance of winning a presidential election not because most Democrats will automatically vote for them because they’re not Trump, but because those people in the middle may be swayed towards them if they say the right things. Biden probably would have defeated Trump if he ran in 2016 and while Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, there were plenty of other issues unrelated to her political promises that contributed to her defeat.

On the other hand, good luck getting those people in the middle to vote for the candidate that said they want to give illegal aliens that crossed our border this morning free healthcare paid for by their tax dollars tonight. Or the candidate that says they want to raise taxes while blowing our entire GDP for the next ten years on some form of the Green New Deal. They’ll either stay home or vote to reelect Trump.

Biden would not have. I think Biden would have won the popular vote by a bigger margin, but his platform and issues in 2016 were just like Hillary's. Once again, Trump won midwest votes and the region by running "to the left" of Clinton on trade. Biden had the same position as Clinton on trade and Trump would have been able to use his record against him.

And once again, Clinton won the center, she won in Orange County California for example, and she won the suburbs , but she still lost because progressives abandoned her. They didn't show up in 4 states and it proved fatal. In fact, Jill Stein had more votes than Trumps margin of victory in those states. Voter depression is a real issue. If you do not get out your vote, which Clinton did not, you lose.

And the Green New Deal has consistently polled well with Americans, so I would not bring that up in your argument. Even Biden riffs on it and mentions it in his plagiarized climate plan.

I don't think Clinton's defeat had anything to do with her platform and issues. It was more about her being perceived as a bad person and her unwillingness to campaign.

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#33 sonicare
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@LJS9502_basic said:
@SolidSnake35 said:

Do you guys miss Bush?

I'd take him over trump...……….

I love watching Bill Maher, and he has a funny skit about this exact point.

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#34 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 12973 Posts

@PurpleMan5000 said:
@texasgoldrush said:
@ad1x2 said:

You need to consider the country as a whole, not just the parts that lean the way you want them to. All Democrats aren’t created equal.

A centralist has a decent chance of winning a presidential election not because most Democrats will automatically vote for them because they’re not Trump, but because those people in the middle may be swayed towards them if they say the right things. Biden probably would have defeated Trump if he ran in 2016 and while Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, there were plenty of other issues unrelated to her political promises that contributed to her defeat.

On the other hand, good luck getting those people in the middle to vote for the candidate that said they want to give illegal aliens that crossed our border this morning free healthcare paid for by their tax dollars tonight. Or the candidate that says they want to raise taxes while blowing our entire GDP for the next ten years on some form of the Green New Deal. They’ll either stay home or vote to reelect Trump.

Biden would not have. I think Biden would have won the popular vote by a bigger margin, but his platform and issues in 2016 were just like Hillary's. Once again, Trump won midwest votes and the region by running "to the left" of Clinton on trade. Biden had the same position as Clinton on trade and Trump would have been able to use his record against him.

And once again, Clinton won the center, she won in Orange County California for example, and she won the suburbs , but she still lost because progressives abandoned her. They didn't show up in 4 states and it proved fatal. In fact, Jill Stein had more votes than Trumps margin of victory in those states. Voter depression is a real issue. If you do not get out your vote, which Clinton did not, you lose.

And the Green New Deal has consistently polled well with Americans, so I would not bring that up in your argument. Even Biden riffs on it and mentions it in his plagiarized climate plan.

I don't think Clinton's defeat had anything to do with her platform and issues. It was more about her being perceived as a bad person and her unwillingness to campaign.

Not in the Midwest.

There is once again, a reason why she won Orange County, CA and lost Michigan. It was definitely policy.

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#35 joebones5000
Member since 2016 • 2827 Posts

@texasgoldrush said:
@PurpleMan5000 said:
@texasgoldrush said:
@ad1x2 said:

You need to consider the country as a whole, not just the parts that lean the way you want them to. All Democrats aren’t created equal.

A centralist has a decent chance of winning a presidential election not because most Democrats will automatically vote for them because they’re not Trump, but because those people in the middle may be swayed towards them if they say the right things. Biden probably would have defeated Trump if he ran in 2016 and while Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, there were plenty of other issues unrelated to her political promises that contributed to her defeat.

On the other hand, good luck getting those people in the middle to vote for the candidate that said they want to give illegal aliens that crossed our border this morning free healthcare paid for by their tax dollars tonight. Or the candidate that says they want to raise taxes while blowing our entire GDP for the next ten years on some form of the Green New Deal. They’ll either stay home or vote to reelect Trump.

Biden would not have. I think Biden would have won the popular vote by a bigger margin, but his platform and issues in 2016 were just like Hillary's. Once again, Trump won midwest votes and the region by running "to the left" of Clinton on trade. Biden had the same position as Clinton on trade and Trump would have been able to use his record against him.

And once again, Clinton won the center, she won in Orange County California for example, and she won the suburbs , but she still lost because progressives abandoned her. They didn't show up in 4 states and it proved fatal. In fact, Jill Stein had more votes than Trumps margin of victory in those states. Voter depression is a real issue. If you do not get out your vote, which Clinton did not, you lose.

And the Green New Deal has consistently polled well with Americans, so I would not bring that up in your argument. Even Biden riffs on it and mentions it in his plagiarized climate plan.

I don't think Clinton's defeat had anything to do with her platform and issues. It was more about her being perceived as a bad person and her unwillingness to campaign.

Not in the Midwest.

There is once again, a reason why she won Orange County, CA and lost Michigan. It was definitely policy.

More like Russian propaganda.

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#36  Edited By warmblur
Member since 2017 • 3247 Posts

If Trump wins I'm going to Mars.

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sonicare

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#37 sonicare
Member since 2004 • 56924 Posts

@texasgoldrush said:
@PurpleMan5000 said:
@texasgoldrush said:
@ad1x2 said:

You need to consider the country as a whole, not just the parts that lean the way you want them to. All Democrats aren’t created equal.

A centralist has a decent chance of winning a presidential election not because most Democrats will automatically vote for them because they’re not Trump, but because those people in the middle may be swayed towards them if they say the right things. Biden probably would have defeated Trump if he ran in 2016 and while Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, there were plenty of other issues unrelated to her political promises that contributed to her defeat.

On the other hand, good luck getting those people in the middle to vote for the candidate that said they want to give illegal aliens that crossed our border this morning free healthcare paid for by their tax dollars tonight. Or the candidate that says they want to raise taxes while blowing our entire GDP for the next ten years on some form of the Green New Deal. They’ll either stay home or vote to reelect Trump.

Biden would not have. I think Biden would have won the popular vote by a bigger margin, but his platform and issues in 2016 were just like Hillary's. Once again, Trump won midwest votes and the region by running "to the left" of Clinton on trade. Biden had the same position as Clinton on trade and Trump would have been able to use his record against him.

And once again, Clinton won the center, she won in Orange County California for example, and she won the suburbs , but she still lost because progressives abandoned her. They didn't show up in 4 states and it proved fatal. In fact, Jill Stein had more votes than Trumps margin of victory in those states. Voter depression is a real issue. If you do not get out your vote, which Clinton did not, you lose.

And the Green New Deal has consistently polled well with Americans, so I would not bring that up in your argument. Even Biden riffs on it and mentions it in his plagiarized climate plan.

I don't think Clinton's defeat had anything to do with her platform and issues. It was more about her being perceived as a bad person and her unwillingness to campaign.

Not in the Midwest.

There is once again, a reason why she won Orange County, CA and lost Michigan. It was definitely policy.

yes, her policy that alienated middle of the road moderates. Blue collar workers that felt they were being ignored. I highly doubt a more radical shift to the left is going to win them back.

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texasgoldrush

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#38 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 12973 Posts

@sonicare: Yet, Trump ran "to the left" of Clinton on trade. Clinton's New Democrat ideology failed in that election. A centrist ideology. just like how centrist policy helped lead to Brexit and the Yellow Vests.

And Orange County CA is also a very moderate, formerly a conservative area, once again showing that Clinton indeed won the middle. She won in the suburbs as well, more moderate areas of the country.

Clinton lost economic populist voters in the Midwest. In fact Trump actually picked up people who voted for Sanders.

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firedrakes

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#39 firedrakes
Member since 2004 • 2000 Posts

your forgotten 1 big thing. gerry madering one the last prez race

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LJS9502_basic

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#40 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167548 Posts

@texasgoldrush said:

Not in the Midwest.

There is once again, a reason why she won Orange County, CA and lost Michigan. It was definitely policy.

Her policy would have helped the Midwest more than trump has so I don't believe it was policy.

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texasgoldrush

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#41 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 12973 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@texasgoldrush said:

Not in the Midwest.

There is once again, a reason why she won Orange County, CA and lost Michigan. It was definitely policy.

Her policy would have helped the Midwest more than trump has so I don't believe it was policy.

Neither Trump nor Clinton would have helped the Midwest. But voters failed to grasp how bad Trump's trade policy was.

But it definitely was policy.

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texasgoldrush

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#42 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 12973 Posts

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/obama-trump-voters-like-trump-not-biden.html

This poll basically throws cold water on the centrists strategy.

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JimB

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#43 JimB
Member since 2002 • 2584 Posts

The far left idea that socialism is the way to go in this next election will not win. Socialism never works it always runs out of money. Just ask Finland who's government collapsed in March which was not widely covered by the media because they were to busy with the Mueller report an pushing the Russian hoax, besides it wouldn't help the Democrats running for president who are all embracing socialism.

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billlehoux

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#44 billlehoux
Member since 2019 • 1 Posts

http://alekboyd.blogspot.com/2017/06/victor-sierra-torino-capital-venezuela.html

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LJS9502_basic

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#45 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167548 Posts

@JimB said:

The far left idea that socialism is the way to go in this next election will not win. Socialism never works it always runs out of money. Just ask Finland who's government collapsed in March which was not widely covered by the media because they were to busy with the Mueller report an pushing the Russian hoax, besides it wouldn't help the Democrats running for president who are all embracing socialism.

Guess we should disband the schools then. They don't seem to work anyway.

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AlexKidd5000

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#46 AlexKidd5000
Member since 2005 • 2988 Posts
@mrbojangles25 said:

Oh, I don't know about all that. We need to stop appealing to the fringe groups and get the moderate, leaning-in-either-direction groups to beat Trump.

I think Biden he is the only one who can really match Trump is gruffness; Biden won't be a politician in that respect, if someone is an asshole he will probably call them an asshole. He is the democratic version of Trump lol.

Trump pokes fun at everyone "successfully". He surrounds himself with yes-men and his fanbase will always laugh with him, it's like the popular kid making a dumb joke then everyone laughs because he is popular.

As for his wife, she was not inherently saying "Biden is not the best choice" she was more or less saying "Biden might not be your choice", and that people might have to swallow their pride for the greater good and vote for their personal less-than-ideal candidate.

I generally vote third party, but I will be heeding her advice and voting democrat this time around. 2020 won't be about ideals, it will be about getting Trump out of office at any cost.

Bernie won't win the election, Pelosi won't, and so on. The only other candidate I have faith in is Pete Buttigieg and unfortunately that is a long shot. Maybe in 8 years he can run again and win.

Biden is terrible, and will only end up giving trump a second term. Lets not fall for that trap again, shall we?

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AlexKidd5000

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#47 AlexKidd5000
Member since 2005 • 2988 Posts
@PurpleMan5000 said:

Biden being a weak candidate has more to do with his age than it does his centrist positions, imo.

Mostly his garbage policies. He states his policies in a very deceptive way, he really has no intention of changing anything, and his billionaire donors will ensure he dosen't change anything. He himself even said he wouldn't.

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AlexKidd5000

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#48 AlexKidd5000
Member since 2005 • 2988 Posts
@JimB said:

The far left idea that socialism is the way to go in this next election will not win. Socialism never works it always runs out of money. Just ask Finland who's government collapsed in March which was not widely covered by the media because they were to busy with the Mueller report an pushing the Russian hoax, besides it wouldn't help the Democrats running for president who are all embracing socialism.

No matter how many times you say it, you're still dead wrong. Stop saying it, and stop embarrassing yourself.

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PurpleMan5000

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#49 PurpleMan5000
Member since 2011 • 9804 Posts

@AlexKidd5000 said:
@PurpleMan5000 said:

Biden being a weak candidate has more to do with his age than it does his centrist positions, imo.

Mostly his garbage policies. He states his policies in a very deceptive way, he really has no intention of changing anything, and his billionaire donors will ensure he dosen't change anything. He himself even said he wouldn't.

I'm not sure if most people want to see drastic changes. People certainly want a president who follows the law, better border policy that doesn't involve human rights violations, and basic human services like healthcare and education to be affordable, but those are all centrist positions that the republican party tries to paint with a socialist brush.

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LJS9502_basic

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#50 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 167548 Posts

@PurpleMan5000 said:
@AlexKidd5000 said:
@PurpleMan5000 said:

Biden being a weak candidate has more to do with his age than it does his centrist positions, imo.

Mostly his garbage policies. He states his policies in a very deceptive way, he really has no intention of changing anything, and his billionaire donors will ensure he dosen't change anything. He himself even said he wouldn't.

I'm not sure if most people want to see drastic changes. People certainly want a president who follows the law, better border policy that doesn't involve human rights violations, and basic human services like healthcare and education to be affordable, but those are all centrist positions that the republican party tries to paint with a socialist brush.

Yes. And with the education system in place it seems to work.