Can someone tell me how something like this is okay?

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nintendoboy16

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#1  Edited By nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41489 Posts

Besides, you know, "freedom of speech" and all that? Here is something I found on Media Matters on right-wing figures incite violence on the "left" or just anyone who disagrees with them.

Granted, some of them I really question the choice of clips for, and while some do not surprise me (Ted Nugent, Alex Jones, Gavin McInnes), others are... more disturbed than I thought.

Glenn Beck, as late as almost eleven or thirteen years ago (I've looked), thought about killing Michael Moore? I mean, say what you will about Moore (though I plan on one day watching Farenheit 11/9), but... yikes! Shouldn't something like this call for an investigation?

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#2 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23010 Posts

You mean legally?

The bar for inciting violence is very high. It essentially has to be an explicit call to action.

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deactivated-5c2e78cbd8d85

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#3 deactivated-5c2e78cbd8d85
Member since 2018 • 210 Posts

Eh, if that's the worst they could come up with then I'm not impressed.

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Serraph105

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#4 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36038 Posts

@nintendoboy16: Woah dude, that first 12 seconds. I think that was over the line! You shouldn't post things like that, but also Trump said nothing wrong. /s

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deactivated-63d1ad7651984

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#5 deactivated-63d1ad7651984
Member since 2017 • 10057 Posts

We live in weird times.

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TryIt

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#6  Edited By TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@lordlobster said:

Eh, if that's the worst they could come up with then I'm not impressed.

Please post similar examples of people on the Left doing similar and then we can compare the two

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#7 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127492 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

You mean legally?

The bar for inciting violence is very high. It essentially has to be an explicit call to action.

Clenched fist of truth does not mean hitting someone?

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#8  Edited By mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23010 Posts

@horgen: Precedent implies that it must be unquestionable. Leaving room for it being a metaphor or pefacing the statements with "I think" or "Maybe" leaves them with enough wiggle room.

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#9 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3850 Posts

Let's see a Depublican supporter did not shoot up a Democrat baseball practice, a Republican supporter did not assault a Democrat Senator and break six ribs, Republican supports did not chase member of the Obama administration out of a Restaurant, A Republican congressman di not tell supporters to get up in anybody's face, No republican candidate for pre3sident every said we can't be civil until we have power, no Republican former Attorney General said to kick Democrats. Republicans supporters can think for themselves they are not part of the mob mentality that you see in banana republics. Tell me somethi9ng how is this ok?

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nintendoboy16

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#10 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41489 Posts
@JimB said:

Let's see a Depublican supporter did not shoot up a Democrat baseball practice, a Republican supporter did not assault a Democrat Senator and break six ribs, Republican supports did not chase member of the Obama administration out of a Restaurant, A Republican congressman di not tell supporters to get up in anybody's face, No republican candidate for pre3sident every said we can't be civil until we have power, no Republican former Attorney General said to kick Democrats. Republicans supporters can think for themselves they are not part of the mob mentality that you see in banana republics. Tell me somethi9ng how is this ok?

Charlottesville isn't a mob mentality and a left leaning girl was never killed? And conservatives have never denied services to a gay couple and a woman with a troubled pregnancy due to their religious beliefs? A Republican politician in Montana NEVER body slammed a reporter and STILL won office?

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#11 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@nintendoboy16: You are, way too predictable,

But as long as you guys support this shit

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-antifa-protesters-caught-on-video-bullying-elderly-motorist-woman-in-wheelchair

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/blogs/tim-blair/if-you-control-the-traffic-you-control-the-city/news-story/15fa7b075813b81503e02795419e2251

Maybe not try to talk too loud about some random youtube video.

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horgen

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#12 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127492 Posts

If I may. I believe the number of right wing supporters doing violently shitty acts with death as a result far outnumber left wing supporters doing so the last decade or two.

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#13  Edited By Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@horgen said:

If I may. I believe the number of right wing supporters doing violently shitty acts with death as a result far outnumber left wing supporters doing so the last decade or two.

You may but I highly doubt that.

But do you have any evidence that would back up that far-left activists being disruptive and violent is far less than far-right activists?

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#14 VFighter
Member since 2016 • 11031 Posts

@horgen: Can you provide any numbers for that or is it just easier to pull shit right out of your ads?

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#15 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@horgen said:

If I may. I believe the number of right wing supporters doing violently shitty acts with death as a result far outnumber left wing supporters doing so the last decade or two.

You may but I highly doubt that.

But do you have any evidence that would back up that far-left activists being disruptive and violent is far less than far-right activists?

step 1 in doing that is to look and find where a left winger killed someone in the past 10 years or so.

can you provide that please?

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#16 Treflis
Member since 2004 • 13757 Posts

Inciting violence against anyone who's views and/or opinions you disagree with is not okay, irregardless of political standing.

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#17 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23010 Posts

But not against people who use the term "irregardless". Argh!

I kid, I kid. But not really :-)

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#18 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127492 Posts

@tryit said:
@Jacanuk said:
@horgen said:

If I may. I believe the number of right wing supporters doing violently shitty acts with death as a result far outnumber left wing supporters doing so the last decade or two.

You may but I highly doubt that.

But do you have any evidence that would back up that far-left activists being disruptive and violent is far less than far-right activists?

step 1 in doing that is to look and find where a left winger killed someone in the past 10 years or so.

can you provide that please?

I wrote I believe, so the number might not be correct, but I will see what I can find: Last year two thirds terrorism acts were done by right wing. Another article with the same source I think. Another one. Haven't really read the last one, however it is quite obvious from it that the number of terrorism acts are much lower these days than before. Been falling for many many years.

PS: If you look into casualties from terrorism since the 90's (perhaps even 80's and 70's) 9/11 will cast a very big shadow over them.

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#19 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127492 Posts

@vfighter said:

@horgen: Can you provide any numbers for that or is it just easier to pull shit right out of your ads?

Right out of your ads? I haven't heard that one before.

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#20 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

It's fairly hard to prove that something was explicitly meant to incite violence. Look at how many of those '2nd amendment solutions' references we've had over the years. Hell, Trump himself is a poster boy for how much you can get away with at this point. It's not even subtle to be honest.

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#21 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58159 Posts

The right is a bunch of scared hypochondriacs who think they are the victims.

The left tends to protest and take to the streets and complain about everything.

The right responds by beating people up, shooting them, and creating hate speech.

The left continues to protest and take to the streets, occasionally causing property damage.

The right continues to think of themselves as the victims while warping their "rights" to fit their own needs.

--

You have to be blind to not see who the real tyrants are, to see who we really need to be scared of. These white, conservative, privileged males feel their "way of life" is threatened and that's somehow more important than another person's actual life, so they feel the need to get violent or incite violence.

Case in point: Charlottesville.

Here's a nutjob at a "rally" his side organized, in body armor and armed with a gun no less, opening up and *surprise* shooting at someone

Let's not forget about the person killed and 19 injured because some crazy right-winger was triggered

--

And, you know, I recognize that not all right-wing people are crazy. They are not all racist. Some might just be emotional whiny babies that want to regress to the 1950's standards of living and society this country once had (oh, wait, that is crazy and racist).

But, I've said it once and I've said it again: the KKK and Neo-nazis are all right-wing crazies. So while all right-wingers and conservatives aren't neo-nazis and KKK members, all neo-nazis and KKK members are right-wingers and conservatives.

What is the worst that the left has? Socialists? ANTIFA? Hahahaha yeah, real big threat there.

Right wing is full of pussies and all this violence is their death rattle, they are a dying breed. The leftist nutjobs don't need to do violence on them, the right is dying out on their own.

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#22 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58159 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan said:

It's fairly hard to prove that something was explicitly meant to incite violence. Look at how many of those '2nd amendment solutions' references we've had over the years. Hell, Trump himself is a poster boy for how much you can get away with at this point. It's not even subtle to be honest.

I just don't understand what is hard to prove. I don't know much about law, but it just seems that if you have someone saying how much they'd like to kill someone and going into details about it, then that is worthy of some investigation and a reprimand of some sort.

Do public figures, talking heads, and radio personalities get a free pass? Is saying death threats, spewing hate speech, and saying "group A needs to take up arms against group B" somehow all a big joke when it's said on TV or radio? If so, we might need to change that.

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#23 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@mrbojangles25: Nice racist rant there. No such thing as white privilege.

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#24 Treflis
Member since 2004 • 13757 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

But not against people who use the term "irregardless". Argh!

I kid, I kid. But not really :-)

I suppose I could use the word irrespective instead, it's a more accepted therm for an action or consequence that it is not affected or should not be affected by another action or consequence.
Then again "Irregardless" has been a matter of controversy since 1795 and I am at a moderate degree a rebel so I might just use that word "Irregardless" irregardless.

:-)

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#25 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

It's fairly hard to prove that something was explicitly meant to incite violence. Look at how many of those '2nd amendment solutions' references we've had over the years. Hell, Trump himself is a poster boy for how much you can get away with at this point. It's not even subtle to be honest.

I just don't understand what is hard to prove.

Because sarcasm exists, because irony exists. IDK, I definitely see hate speech as being a part of plenty rhetoric in today's world, that I don't disagree with. However, having a looser definition of incitement may lead to an overreaction in the opposite direction IMO.

I think a better route is to help people identify this tribalistic nonsense and directly confront the people who propagate it.

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#26 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58159 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

It's fairly hard to prove that something was explicitly meant to incite violence. Look at how many of those '2nd amendment solutions' references we've had over the years. Hell, Trump himself is a poster boy for how much you can get away with at this point. It's not even subtle to be honest.

I just don't understand what is hard to prove.

Because sarcasm exists, because irony exists. IDK, I definitely see hate speech as being a part of plenty rhetoric in today's world, that I don't disagree with. However, having a looser definition of incitement may lead to an overreaction in the opposite direction IMO.

I think a better route is to help people identify this tribalistic nonsense and directly confront the people who propagate it.

I could sarcastically tell someone I am going to kill them at my job and I'd probably get fired for it.

I agree with your other points though, definitely good to confront people about it. It's generally easy, too, as they're idiots.

"Mexicans are rapists!"
"No, they're not"
"But..."
"No."
"But Obama is a terro--"
"No"
"Ummm...'murica!"
"Yup, I love America too"
"Well OK then"

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#27 Gaming-Planet
Member since 2008 • 21064 Posts

GOP is ahead of you.

Loading Video...

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#28  Edited By KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

This is disgusting, it does happen on both ends we shouldn't deny that. I don't know if it's more frequent in one place than the other but I'm sure it is. Either way it should stop. Blaming whole groups of people (unless it's the group of people who do this specifically) is not helping because that's exactly what's going wrong here. It's not 'the left' or 'the right' (or that seems extremely unlikely) it's people who need some time to reevaluate things. It's not whole groups of people who share some directly/indirectly related trait. Because if we adopt that way of thinking we're throwing people under the bus who have no ill will, who have done nothing wrong.

We know fascists make “rational” arguments in bad faith. Civic engagement cannot defeat bad fair.

If fascists experience physical harm for publicly holding fascist views, they stop expressing those views in public. It works. That’s why this is so triggering for you.

— Ben McShane GenCon (@TeeVeeBen) August 3, 2018

Do you remember this gem?:

Loading Video...

Etc, etc. This happens on all sides BECAUSE it's not 1:1 a political side. It's people misbehaving.

Loading Video...

I hope somebody understands what I'm trying to say. It's not OK. And we're going the wrong way about fixing it.

@Treflis said:

Inciting violence against anyone who's views and/or opinions you disagree with is not okay, irregardless of political standing.

I agree with you a 100%.

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deactivated-5c2e78cbd8d85

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#29 deactivated-5c2e78cbd8d85
Member since 2018 • 210 Posts
@tryit said:
@lordlobster said:

Eh, if that's the worst they could come up with then I'm not impressed.

Please post similar examples of people on the Left doing similar and then we can compare the two

I never said anything about the left wing. So how about no?

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#30  Edited By TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@lordlobster said:
@tryit said:
@lordlobster said:

Eh, if that's the worst they could come up with then I'm not impressed.

Please post similar examples of people on the Left doing similar and then we can compare the two

I never said anything about the left wing. So how about no?

that is interesting side fact you just shared, not really related to my request.

That said, could you please give some examples anyway? it would be helpful to the conversation

use this as an opportunity to make a strong point instead of all the weak bullshit people on the Right always throw out there.

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#31 deactivated-5c2e78cbd8d85
Member since 2018 • 210 Posts
@tryit said:
@lordlobster said:
@tryit said:
@lordlobster said:

Eh, if that's the worst they could come up with then I'm not impressed.

Please post similar examples of people on the Left doing similar and then we can compare the two

I never said anything about the left wing. So how about no?

that is interesting side fact you just shared, not really related to my request.

That said, could you please give some examples anyway? it would be helpful to the conversation

use this as an opportunity to make a strong point instead of all the weak bullshit people on the Right always throw out there.

Are you going to pay me for this project?

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#32  Edited By TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@lordlobster said:
@tryit said:
@lordlobster said:
@tryit said:
@lordlobster said:

Eh, if that's the worst they could come up with then I'm not impressed.

Please post similar examples of people on the Left doing similar and then we can compare the two

I never said anything about the left wing. So how about no?

that is interesting side fact you just shared, not really related to my request.

That said, could you please give some examples anyway? it would be helpful to the conversation

use this as an opportunity to make a strong point instead of all the weak bullshit people on the Right always throw out there.

Are you going to pay me for this project?

doing so helps you, makes your position strong instead of weak as shit.

Why not make your position strong if it is strong? why make it weak if its not weak?

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#33  Edited By JimB
Member since 2002 • 3850 Posts

@nintendoboy16 said:
@JimB said:

Let's see a Depublican supporter did not shoot up a Democrat baseball practice, a Republican supporter did not assault a Democrat Senator and break six ribs, Republican supports did not chase member of the Obama administration out of a Restaurant, A Republican congressman di not tell supporters to get up in anybody's face, No republican candidate for pre3sident every said we can't be civil until we have power, no Republican former Attorney General said to kick Democrats. Republicans supporters can think for themselves they are not part of the mob mentality that you see in banana republics. Tell me somethi9ng how is this ok?

Charlottesville isn't a mob mentality and a left leaning girl was never killed? And conservatives have never denied services to a gay couple and a woman with a troubled pregnancy due to their religious beliefs? A Republican politician in Montana NEVER body slammed a reporter and STILL won office?

Charlottesville had a Neo Nazi group and a Communist group come together and the police were told to stand down and violent chaos erupted, when that happens people get hurt. It is unfortunate someone had to lose their life. Denying someone service is not mob rule which is being called for by the Democrat leaders. They have devolved into a third world politics. They offer no ideas on improving the country only destruction of the country to get their power back at all cost. Until they learn to be civil again they do not deserve to rule.

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#34 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@JimB said:
@nintendoboy16 said:
@JimB said:

Let's see a Depublican supporter did not shoot up a Democrat baseball practice, a Republican supporter did not assault a Democrat Senator and break six ribs, Republican supports did not chase member of the Obama administration out of a Restaurant, A Republican congressman di not tell supporters to get up in anybody's face, No republican candidate for pre3sident every said we can't be civil until we have power, no Republican former Attorney General said to kick Democrats. Republicans supporters can think for themselves they are not part of the mob mentality that you see in banana republics. Tell me somethi9ng how is this ok?

Charlottesville isn't a mob mentality and a left leaning girl was never killed? And conservatives have never denied services to a gay couple and a woman with a troubled pregnancy due to their religious beliefs? A Republican politician in Montana NEVER body slammed a reporter and STILL won office?

Charlottesville had a Neo Nazi group and a Communist group come together and the police were told to stand down and violent chaos erupted, when that happens people get hurt. It is unfortunate someone had to lose their life. Denying someone service is not mob rule which is being called for by the Democrat leaders. They have devolved into a third world politics. They offer no ideas on improving the country only destruction of the country to get their power back at all cost. Until they learn to be civil again they do not deserve to rule.

ironic statement given the Dems wanted to provide universal health care while the Cons want to remove that without replacing anything

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#35 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3850 Posts

@tryit said:
@JimB said:
@nintendoboy16 said:
@JimB said:

Let's see a Depublican supporter did not shoot up a Democrat baseball practice, a Republican supporter did not assault a Democrat Senator and break six ribs, Republican supports did not chase member of the Obama administration out of a Restaurant, A Republican congressman di not tell supporters to get up in anybody's face, No republican candidate for pre3sident every said we can't be civil until we have power, no Republican former Attorney General said to kick Democrats. Republicans supporters can think for themselves they are not part of the mob mentality that you see in banana republics. Tell me somethi9ng how is this ok?

Charlottesville isn't a mob mentality and a left leaning girl was never killed? And conservatives have never denied services to a gay couple and a woman with a troubled pregnancy due to their religious beliefs? A Republican politician in Montana NEVER body slammed a reporter and STILL won office?

Charlottesville had a Neo Nazi group and a Communist group come together and the police were told to stand down and violent chaos erupted, when that happens people get hurt. It is unfortunate someone had to lose their life. Denying someone service is not mob rule which is being called for by the Democrat leaders. They have devolved into a third world politics. They offer no ideas on improving the country only destruction of the country to get their power back at all cost. Until they learn to be civil again they do not deserve to rule.

ironic statement given the Dems wanted to provide universal health care while the Cons want to remove that without replacing anything

What does that have to do the thread.

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#36 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41489 Posts

@JimB: Oh yes! Because Trumplicans were SO civil even before the 2016 election. /sarcasm

And it's rich, when it comes to Neo Nazis, you try and distance yourselves, yet Antifa is involved, you and other Trumplicans associate EVERYONE on the left (unless their names are Carl, Dave, Roseanne, and Rodrigo because they like Trump) with them? No wonder theone went berserk on you.

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#37  Edited By TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@nintendoboy16 said:

@JimB: Oh yes! Because Trumplicans were SO civil even before the 2016 election. /sarcasm

And it's rich, when it comes to Neo Nazis, you try and distance yourselves, yet Antifa is involved, you and other Trumplicans associate EVERYONE on the left (unless their names are Carl, Dave, Roseanne, and Rodrigo because they like Trump) with them? No wonder theone went berserk on you.

sad to say but what rubs be more raw then their believe system by far is liying about it.

THAT is what really gets under my skin. I am no fan of in your face racism but I would be more inclined to hear out a member of the KKK then I would someone who lies about what they believe (even though to be honest KKK also lie)

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#38 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38662 Posts

bunch of old people sad they're losing power and having a tantrum about it, trying to incite the young idiots among us to take up their causes.

move along, nothing to see here, they'll be dead of old age soon enough and there is nothing they can do about it.

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#39 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3850 Posts

@nintendoboy16 said:

@JimB: Oh yes! Because Trumplicans were SO civil even before the 2016 election. /sarcasm

And it's rich, when it comes to Neo Nazis, you try and distance yourselves, yet Antifa is involved, you and other Trumplicans associate EVERYONE on the left (unless their names are Carl, Dave, Roseanne, and Rodrigo because they like Trump) with them? No wonder theone went berserk on you.

The problem is you can't handle the truth. The left for so long got to say what they wanted and do what they wanted with no push back. Now that there is push back you can't handle it.

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N64DD

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#40  Edited By N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@JimB said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

@JimB: Oh yes! Because Trumplicans were SO civil even before the 2016 election. /sarcasm

And it's rich, when it comes to Neo Nazis, you try and distance yourselves, yet Antifa is involved, you and other Trumplicans associate EVERYONE on the left (unless their names are Carl, Dave, Roseanne, and Rodrigo because they like Trump) with them? No wonder theone went berserk on you.

The problem is you can't handle the truth. The left for so long got to say what they wanted and do what they wanted with no push back. Now that there is push back you can't handle it.

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How liberals are "compassionate" and "tolerant" when they don't get their way.

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horgen

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#41 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127492 Posts

@n64dd: Ah yes, let one piece of anecdotal evidence count for all.

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#42 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@horgen said:

@n64dd: Ah yes, let one piece of anecdotal evidence count for all.

Tons of evidence out there. Sorry it's not an article, you have to live here to experience it ;)

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#43 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127492 Posts

@n64dd said:
@horgen said:

@n64dd: Ah yes, let one piece of anecdotal evidence count for all.

Tons of evidence out there. Sorry it's not an article, you have to live here to experience it ;)

Because right wing people are so much better? I remember one of them went on a killing spree because he was disappointed with a political party...