Border stuff makes no sense

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#1 Posted by ThatForumUser (23 posts) -

So Donald Trump orders a wall, higher border security, and a bunch of people rush in to seek asylum.

"To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum status regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status."

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/obtaining-asylum-united-states

Ok, so people are coming over for that. Normally they will be allowed to post bail and continue in the US to live with families and after 180 days legally be allowed to work.

But William Barr orders that bail not be allowed anymore, and so overcrowding begins at the border facilities.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/04/17/reversal-barr-withhold-bail-asylum-seekers-latest-border-crackdown/

There was a bill for additional funding to the detention centers. Instead of allowing the legal asylum seekers to try to be self sufficient and under the care of families posting bail for them in the meantime and find a place in sanctuary cities, government money is being used to house them in bad conditions.

Mike Pence visits those facilities and agrees with the DHS report that conditions are terrible. This is the DHS report: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6180042/DHSOIG-7-2-19.pdf

Pence calls on Congress to act, however the DOJ could easily remove the bail restriction that was imposed.

The border wall is also still being ordered even though drugs are coming in through the north, through tunnels, by air, and also even though there has been no need for military action on any alleged caravans supposedly coming through that Trump mentioned over 14 months ago. Again, more unnecessary funds, and has nothing to do with any asylum seekers, or drugs or immigrants.

Raids are being conducted today as well on immigrants in cities. This is behavior that we have never seen since the 1930s:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/americas-brutal-forgotten-history-of-illegal-deportations/517971/

It is causing fear among people who were not targeted but suspect they may be next. Even people with no criminal activity are being deported. Something like this would seem to have to be a last resort, but it seems like overly broad and oppressive tactics are being used.

All this is ignoring the fact that aside from Native Americans we are all immigrants here as well, and our buildings and infrastructure and farms were built on immigrant labor, we used immigrants to fight our wars, and not to mention the American/Mexican war where we took more land for Texas, New Mexico, and California.

Treating people this way in America, when we fight abroad for human rights reasons and the protection of other citizens and fight against injustices being carried out in other countries to try and bring about peace and safety, seems hypocritical, and unnecessary.

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#2 Posted by joebones5000 (2634 posts) -

Manufactured crisis so Trump can try to keep a campaign promise. Nothing more.

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#3 Posted by Zaryia (9455 posts) -

It's all for 2020. He's fat piece of shit.

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#4 Posted by BaelNergal (570 posts) -

It's mostly a smokescreen to cover his other, far more illegal activities. Like he's been doing this entire time.

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#5 Posted by ThatForumUser (23 posts) -

@zaryia: I'm not even sure what people think he is doing for 2020.

He's been threatening raids multiple times and each time it seems like after the dust settled he hasn't followed through. He is running on the exact same promises as the first time, showing he hasn't accomplished anything. Even got white supremacist quotes saying they were starting to lose faith in him until he let out the comments over the weekend, which are again just comments and not action.

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#6 Edited by burntbyhellfire (451 posts) -

where do you get that they'd be able to legally work in the united states? these are not immigrants, these are illegals, you cant just walk into the US and expect to be treated like a citizen or even a legal immigrant. thats not how it works in this country and it isnt how it works in any other country anywhere... nobody is forcing these people to stay, they can all turn around and **** off back home, we do not owe them entry, citizenship, food, shelter, or any of the shit they receive up to this point

and there is no such thing as an illegal who hasn't committed a crime

people like you do a great disservice to legal immigrants who go through the vetting process, find gainful employment, and become contributing members of society, who wait in line like everyone else to become citizens.. its an insult to real immigrants

if its causing fear amongst people here illegally? good

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#7 Edited by ThatForumUser (23 posts) -

@burntbyhellfire: No I'm talking about legal asylum seekers. There's a law saying people going through the asylum process that have posted bail can legally work in the country after 180 days. They can apply for an EAD after 150 days and then begin work after 180 days.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/asylum-applicants-work-permit-timing-32297.html

It's causing fear among all people even in the legal process of immigration or asylum, because if there are raids clearing people out who have a legal record for things such as parking tickets, (and with police sometimes oppressing non-whites there are many who have committed "crimes"), then it is causing fear even among people who have acted in good faith in this country. It is causing fear among their families as well. That is not good.

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#8 Posted by Heirren (2226 posts) -

So what do people propose should be done?

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#9 Posted by ThatForumUser (23 posts) -

@heirren: Rescind Barr's ban on bail for legal asylum seekers, due process for those with warrants instead of deport raids.

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#10 Posted by Heirren (2226 posts) -

@thatforumuser:

So what is happening now vs what will happen then? Why do you think the current approach is being taken?

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#11 Edited by ThatForumUser (23 posts) -

@heirren: Now: Barr has imposed a ban on asylum bail, crowding border facilities and costing taxpayers, as well as limiting the scope of those who can seek asylum. There are also ICE raids that we haven't seen the like of since the 1920s-30s era.

No clue why as this doesn't seem to objectively sacrifices a lot without quantifiably or qualitatively improving anything, and official statements don't seem to give a clue there either. Pence visited those stations and thought throwing more taxpayer money at it could be a solution but that doesn't seem wise. Aside from that these actions don't reflect American values nor do they recognize our heritage.

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#12 Posted by Heirren (2226 posts) -

@thatforumuser:

Have any of these people done anything illegal?

What i see is that the issue of illegal immigration has gone on for so long, that dealing with it is going to cause quite a stir; theres no way around that.

The problem is that the government is letting it all fall on the people, even though they have been aware of it all this time but done nothing. So now you have generations already settled, some illegal and some not, and its creating a moral upheaval, and id say that goes through even government officials. Agree or disagree?

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#13 Posted by Nuck81 (7711 posts) -

They ignore that a higher percentage of illegals come over from Canada.

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#14 Edited by ThatForumUser (23 posts) -

@heirren: No, they're going through the legal process of seeking asylum.

"To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum status regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status."

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/obtaining-asylum-united-states

Right now they are being detained at the border instead of being allowed bail. I don't see reports of crimes being committed in the detention centers by detainees, and in the asylum seeking process they are vetted as well, so that would answer your question to whether they have done anything illegal. Imposing the ban on bail means the people who are going through the legal process are impaired, and also costing taxpayers money.

Perhaps this will cause people to attempt to enter through illegal means rather than being detained indefinitely without going forward in the asylum process, so rescinding the ban on bail would be one way to improve things here and reduce illegal immigration, as well as reducing the burden on taxpayers, detention centers, staff, and detainees.

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#15 Edited by Vaasman (13807 posts) -

It isn't supposed to make sense, it's supposed to cause disenfranchisement and human suffering for certain folks based on isolationism and xenophobia.

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#16 Posted by watercrack445 (1731 posts) -

I don't know, my senator said we need illegals to help pay for our state. With illegals getting deported we lose revenues. Well, that is what my senator said.

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#17 Posted by Heirren (2226 posts) -

@thatforumuser:

Im stepping away from all that for the moment. Look at the questions as though this stuff is not going on.

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#18 Edited by ThatForumUser (23 posts) -

@heirren: I'd like to stay on topic. If you want to create another thread to discuss another topic that's fine, and I'll join in there, I'm open to discussing other topics in other threads.

Here I want to talk about the legal asylum process at the border being altered under this administration. We can discuss illegal immigrants in another thread.

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#19 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166867 posts) -

@watercrack445 said:

I don't know, my senator said we need illegals to help pay for our state. With illegals getting deported we lose revenues. Well, that is what my senator said.

In some industries illegals are necessary.

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#20 Posted by Heirren (2226 posts) -

@thatforumuser:

Its all connected imo. Howbis that not relevent?

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#21 Edited by ThatForumUser (23 posts) -

Because people legally applying for asylum are not entering the country illegally, and because something can be done to remedy that, saving taxpayers money and reducing the burden on the DHS, and reinstating the path of self sufficiency for asylum seekers.

Anyway at least we can agree that all that is pretty clear and straightforward, but if you want to discuss people that are in the country illegally in another thread that's fine, but this thread is about people that are here legally and going through the legal process, discussing a clear way forward that can be implemented right now by removing the change this administration made when they blocked bail for asylum seekers in April 2019. This would provide relief for those going through the legal process as well as for taxpayers and government workers.

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#22 Edited by ThatForumUser (23 posts) -

Last week the current administration met with the DHS and expressed the desire to significantly reduce the amount of refugees coming in due to "ongoing security concerns and the ability of the US to offer humanitarian protections through the asylum process."

They are finally recognizing the challenges in the situation they have created by banning bail for asylum seekers in April 2019. However, this is yet another story showing how the ban is having only a negative impact, so they should lift it, significantly reducing the taxpayer burden and the burden on DHS employees and border facilities.

To those wondering why was this ban imposed in the first place, it's because William Barr on a whim decided that the board of immigration appeals and the supreme court had "wrongly decided" Matter of X-K, 23 I&N Dec 731 (BIA 2005), '“mandate[s] detention throughout the completion of [removal] proceedings” unless the alien is paroled.' personally overruling the decision to allow said parole.

In addition, they are ignoring resources that could expedite proceedings for asylum seekers, such as engaging the USCIS in handling asylum cases, in which they are already involved and familiar.