Blue Corporate Wave?

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TryIt

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#1 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/31/business-democrats-trump-745479

Even the powerful Koch network appears to be withholding some support for the Republican Party, if not outright supporting Democrats.

The American Bankers Association this month began airing ads in support of candidates for the first time, including Democrats Sen. Jon Tester of Montana and Rep. Lou Correa of California.

“It’s a significant shift in our thinking,” Cresanti said

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Jacanuk

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#2 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@tryit said:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/31/business-democrats-trump-745479

Even the powerful Koch network appears to be withholding some support for the Republican Party, if not outright supporting Democrats.

The American Bankers Association this month began airing ads in support of candidates for the first time, including Democrats Sen. Jon Tester of Montana and Rep. Lou Correa of California.

“It’s a significant shift in our thinking,” Cresanti said

Good for Republicans, the 1% helping the Democrats is only going to shift more towards Republicans.

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TryIt

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#3  Edited By TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@tryit said:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/31/business-democrats-trump-745479

Even the powerful Koch network appears to be withholding some support for the Republican Party, if not outright supporting Democrats.

The American Bankers Association this month began airing ads in support of candidates for the first time, including Democrats Sen. Jon Tester of Montana and Rep. Lou Correa of California.

“It’s a significant shift in our thinking,” Cresanti said

Good for Republicans, the 1% helping the Democrats is only going to shift more towards Republicans.

yeah hold on tight to that

because those liberals that hate the banks LOVE to separate families, build walls and give out corporate tax cuts.

actually if they change their vote do they have to register with Russia first? how does that work?

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Jacanuk

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#4 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@tryit said:
@Jacanuk said:

Good for Republicans, the 1% helping the Democrats is only going to shift more towards Republicans.

yeah hold on tight to that

because those liberals that hate the banks LOVE to separate families, build walls and give out corporate tax cuts

Ya, you keep hoping mate.

But the facts are that for the far left, IE the occupy wall street dumbos, how do you think it will sit with them that some of the richest people in the world and America are on their side.

A good idea is a repeat of the Clinton/Sanders trouble.

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TryIt

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#5 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@tryit said:
@Jacanuk said:

Good for Republicans, the 1% helping the Democrats is only going to shift more towards Republicans.

yeah hold on tight to that

because those liberals that hate the banks LOVE to separate families, build walls and give out corporate tax cuts

Ya, you keep hoping mate.

But the facts are that for the far left, IE the occupy wall street dumbos, how do you think it will sit with them that some of the richest people in the world and America are on their side.

A good idea is a repeat of the Clinton/Sanders trouble.

say when people switch from Dem to GOP do they have to register with Russia first?

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mattbbpl

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#6 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23010 Posts

Yeah, right.

"We will support Democrats who act like Republicans... Except on the issue of tariffs."

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TryIt

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#7 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

Yeah, right.

"We will support Democrats who act like Republicans... Except on the issue of tariffs."

which is marginally better slogan than 'we separate families and increase your healthcare cost!'

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JimB

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#8 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3850 Posts

@tryit said:
@Jacanuk said:
@tryit said:
@Jacanuk said:

Good for Republicans, the 1% helping the Democrats is only going to shift more towards Republicans.

yeah hold on tight to that

because those liberals that hate the banks LOVE to separate families, build walls and give out corporate tax cuts

Ya, you keep hoping mate.

But the facts are that for the far left, IE the occupy wall street dumbos, how do you think it will sit with them that some of the richest people in the world and America are on their side.

A good idea is a repeat of the Clinton/Sanders trouble.

say when people switch from Dem to GOP do they have to register with Russia first?

They have to check with Russia first because they are already controlled by them. The modern Democrats are more aligned with Russia than with America.

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TryIt

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#9  Edited By TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@JimB said:
@tryit said:
@Jacanuk said:
@tryit said:

yeah hold on tight to that

because those liberals that hate the banks LOVE to separate families, build walls and give out corporate tax cuts

Ya, you keep hoping mate.

But the facts are that for the far left, IE the occupy wall street dumbos, how do you think it will sit with them that some of the richest people in the world and America are on their side.

A good idea is a repeat of the Clinton/Sanders trouble.

say when people switch from Dem to GOP do they have to register with Russia first?

They have to check with Russia first because they are already controlled by them. The modern Democrats are more aligned with Russia than with America.

yeah and water is not wet and Qanon knows the truth.

dont forget Trumps slogon 'what you see and read its not really like that, its not really what is going on'

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#10 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3850 Posts

@tryit said:
@JimB said:
@tryit said:
@Jacanuk said:
@tryit said:

yeah hold on tight to that

because those liberals that hate the banks LOVE to separate families, build walls and give out corporate tax cuts

Ya, you keep hoping mate.

But the facts are that for the far left, IE the occupy wall street dumbos, how do you think it will sit with them that some of the richest people in the world and America are on their side.

A good idea is a repeat of the Clinton/Sanders trouble.

say when people switch from Dem to GOP do they have to register with Russia first?

They have to check with Russia first because they are already controlled by them. The modern Democrats are more aligned with Russia than with America.

yeah and water is not wet and Qanon knows the truth.

dont forget Trumps slogon 'what you see and read its not really like that, its not really what is going on'

Here you go an article to prove my point.

https://spectator.org/when-progressives-colluded-with-the-kremlin-in-a-presidential-election/

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TryIt

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#11 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@JimB said:
@tryit said:
@JimB said:
@tryit said:
@Jacanuk said:

Ya, you keep hoping mate.

But the facts are that for the far left, IE the occupy wall street dumbos, how do you think it will sit with them that some of the richest people in the world and America are on their side.

A good idea is a repeat of the Clinton/Sanders trouble.

say when people switch from Dem to GOP do they have to register with Russia first?

They have to check with Russia first because they are already controlled by them. The modern Democrats are more aligned with Russia than with America.

yeah and water is not wet and Qanon knows the truth.

dont forget Trumps slogon 'what you see and read its not really like that, its not really what is going on'

Here you go an article to prove my point.

https://spectator.org/when-progressives-colluded-with-the-kremlin-in-a-presidential-election/

does that contain the question from Helsinki that was removed from the White House transcripts?

do you recall which question I am refering to?

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JimB

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#12 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3850 Posts

@tryit said:
@JimB said:
@tryit said:
@JimB said:
@tryit said:

say when people switch from Dem to GOP do they have to register with Russia first?

They have to check with Russia first because they are already controlled by them. The modern Democrats are more aligned with Russia than with America.

yeah and water is not wet and Qanon knows the truth.

dont forget Trumps slogon 'what you see and read its not really like that, its not really what is going on'

Here you go an article to prove my point.

https://spectator.org/when-progressives-colluded-with-the-kremlin-in-a-presidential-election/

does that contain the question from Helsinki that was removed from the White House transcripts?

do you recall which question I am refering to?

This article is not about Helsinki nor was your original post.

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TryIt

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#13 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@JimB said:
@tryit said:
@JimB said:
@tryit said:
@JimB said:

They have to check with Russia first because they are already controlled by them. The modern Democrats are more aligned with Russia than with America.

yeah and water is not wet and Qanon knows the truth.

dont forget Trumps slogon 'what you see and read its not really like that, its not really what is going on'

Here you go an article to prove my point.

https://spectator.org/when-progressives-colluded-with-the-kremlin-in-a-presidential-election/

does that contain the question from Helsinki that was removed from the White House transcripts?

do you recall which question I am refering to?

This article is not about Helsinki nor was your original post.

so is that a yes or a no?

do you not see the relevance of the joke?

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deactivated-620299e29a26a

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#14 deactivated-620299e29a26a
Member since 2010 • 1490 Posts

Let's all be honest here. It will take the Republican party a decade to recover from what the GOP and Trump has done in the last two years.

Caged and separated families, a rising support in racist movements, a blatant disregard for church and state seperation, and a MASSIVE pile of lies caught on video and constant contradictions are the tip of the iceberg of issues from a party that once thought a BJ in office was an impeachable offence but don't like to discuss paying certian people off to keep an affair quiet.

I'm honestly surprised Paul Ryan was one of the first that jumped the sinking ship.

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TryIt

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#15 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@rmiller365 said:

Let's all be honest here. It will take the Republican party a decade to recover from what the GOP and Trump has done in the last two years.

Caged and separated families, a rising support in racist movements, a blatant disregard for church and state seperation, and a MASSIVE pile of lies caught on video and constant contradictions are the tip of the iceberg of issues from a party that once thought a BJ in office was an impeachable offence but don't like to discuss paying certian people off to keep an affair quiet.

I'm honestly surprised Paul Ryan was one of the first that jumped the sinking ship.

I am not completely convinced of that. I mean I see your logic but these followers are bat shit crazy.

they will do anything

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deactivated-620299e29a26a

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#16 deactivated-620299e29a26a
Member since 2010 • 1490 Posts

@tryit: I have to have hope. I think of it like this:

Most of the supporters that I have encountered are Baby Boomers (or uneducated racists.) Baby Boomers that I have encountered don't care about equality, or basic living needs, they have ONE reasoning for it all and nothing else matters (racism, a worthless wall, ect)

Younger generation? Yeah they want equality, fair living wages, affordable education and healthcare, environmental impact changes, and they don't care about wars that don't help anybody but the rich.

Polls cast the GOP averaging mid 30% approval rating, 62% want universal healthcare, and 70% want a higher living wage. As long as people VOTE, the minority can't keep the majority at bay forever.

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TryIt

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#17 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@rmiller365 said:

@tryit: I have to have hope. I think of it like this:

Most of the supporters that I have encountered are Baby Boomers (or uneducated racists.) Baby Boomers that I have encountered don't care about equality, or basic living needs, they have ONE reasoning for it all and nothing else matters (racism, a worthless wall, ect)

Younger generation? Yeah they want equality, fair living wages, affordable education and healthcare, environmental impact changes, and they don't care about wars that don't help anybody but the rich.

Polls cast the GOP averaging mid 30% approval rating, 62% want universal healthcare, and 70% want a higher living wage. As long as people VOTE, the minority can't keep the majority at bay forever.

and voting this 2018 is the most important vote of my 50 years being alive I will say that.

Russia hold on this country i believe is much stronger then people think. I think congress and senate are also compromised

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#18 judaspete  Online
Member since 2005 • 7204 Posts

Alexandria Osario-Cortez has them freaking out. They want Democrats to stay Republican-lite instead of turning into real progressives.

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TryIt

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#19 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@judaspete said:

Alexandria Osario-Cortez has them freaking out. They want Democrats to stay Republican-lite instead of turning into real progressives.

absolutely true. In fact that dynamic might be what hurt the GOP greatly when Koch brothers start supporting traditional democrats

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#20 deactivated-620299e29a26a
Member since 2010 • 1490 Posts

@tryit: Agreed, this election is of vast importance and people's disregard for Russia is scary. It's like everyone forgot the cold war. The GOP's lack of testicles to go against the grain is concerning. Imagine if any other president who was under investigation for Russian collusion did a under handed meeting with Russia with no recording or cameras.... for hours... Then the leader of the free world comes out with a collar around his neck and dictator who is smiling while he says the opposite of what the rest of the world is saying.

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TryIt

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#21 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@rmiller365 said:

@tryit: Agreed, this election is of vast importance and people's disregard for Russia is scary. It's like everyone forgot the cold war. The GOP's lack of testicles to go against the grain is concerning. Imagine if any other president who was under investigation for Russian collusion did a under handed meeting with Russia with no recording or cameras.... for hours... Then the leader of the free world comes out with a collar around his neck and dictator who is smiling while he says the opposite of what the rest of the world is saying.

I think Russia has stuff on many of those in congress leadership.

Thing is, I bet Pence is too so....

so Nov is really important

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#22 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127492 Posts

@tryit said:

yeah and water is not wet and Qanon knows the truth.

dont forget Trumps slogon 'what you see and read its not really like that, its not really what is going on'

I think on a technical level, water isn't wet. I guess it depends on the definition of wet. :P

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#23  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23807 Posts

Not surprised.

The Koch Brothers arent Republicans as much as they are Libertarians. Put a Right Wing Populist in there and Neo-Liberalism will be preferable to right wing populism.

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#24 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3850 Posts

@rmiller365 said:

Let's all be honest here. It will take the Republican party a decade to recover from what the GOP and Trump has done in the last two years.

Caged and separated families, a rising support in racist movements, a blatant disregard for church and state seperation, and a MASSIVE pile of lies caught on video and constant contradictions are the tip of the iceberg of issues from a party that once thought a BJ in office was an impeachable offence but don't like to discuss paying certian people off to keep an affair quiet.

I'm honestly surprised Paul Ryan was one of the first that jumped the sinking ship.

The Democratic party is no longer an American Political party. They are becoming a socialist party which is against every thing the United States was founded upon and a majority of the citizens. How long will it take the Democratic party to get back to the party for all Americans. As for separation of church which is not in the Constitution you are confusing freedom of religion with freedom from religion.

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LJS9502_basic

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#25  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178808 Posts

@JimB said:
@rmiller365 said:

Let's all be honest here. It will take the Republican party a decade to recover from what the GOP and Trump has done in the last two years.

Caged and separated families, a rising support in racist movements, a blatant disregard for church and state seperation, and a MASSIVE pile of lies caught on video and constant contradictions are the tip of the iceberg of issues from a party that once thought a BJ in office was an impeachable offence but don't like to discuss paying certian people off to keep an affair quiet.

I'm honestly surprised Paul Ryan was one of the first that jumped the sinking ship.

The Democratic party is no longer an American Political party. They are becoming a socialist party which is against every thing the United States was founded upon and a majority of the citizens. How long will it take the Democratic party to get back to the party for all Americans. As for separation of church which is not in the Constitution you are confusing freedom of religion with freedom from religion.

The United States was founded on anti taxation without representation. So you are wrong of course.

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deactivated-620299e29a26a

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#26 deactivated-620299e29a26a
Member since 2010 • 1490 Posts

@JimB: I never mentioned Democrats, and that Binary Black or White thinking is part of the problem, and I was referring to Sessions religious task force, which has been mocked by everyone and quoting old testament as a rationale for turning away asylum seekers.

As for the socialism, you're confusing Socialism (Venezuela) with Democratic Socialism (Denmark, Finland) the two are very different , but Fox news wouldn't want you to know that..

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LJS9502_basic

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#27 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178808 Posts

@rmiller365 said:

@JimB: I never mentioned Democrats, and that Binary Black or White thinking is part of the problem, and I was referring to Sessions religious task force, which has been mocked by everyone and quoting old testament as a rationale for turning away asylum seekers.

As for the socialism, you're confusing Socialism (Venezuela) with Democratic Socialism (Denmark, Finland) the two are very different , but Fox news wouldn't want you to know that..

Talking to people that get their info from Fox is worthless. They aren't in the facts game.

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#28 JimB
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@rmiller365 said:

@JimB: I never mentioned Democrats, and that Binary Black or White thinking is part of the problem, and I was referring to Sessions religious task force, which has been mocked by everyone and quoting old testament as a rationale for turning away asylum seekers.

As for the socialism, you're confusing Socialism (Venezuela) with Democratic Socialism (Denmark, Finland) the two are very different , but Fox news wouldn't want you to know that..

Socialism in the Nordic countries is stating to unravel because of the expense to keep it going, also the citizens of the US have to pay for the defense of those countries.

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TryIt

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#29 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@JimB said:
@rmiller365 said:

@JimB: I never mentioned Democrats, and that Binary Black or White thinking is part of the problem, and I was referring to Sessions religious task force, which has been mocked by everyone and quoting old testament as a rationale for turning away asylum seekers.

As for the socialism, you're confusing Socialism (Venezuela) with Democratic Socialism (Denmark, Finland) the two are very different , but Fox news wouldn't want you to know that..

Socialism in the Nordic countries is stating to unravel because of the expense to keep it going, also the citizens of the US have to pay for the defense of those countries.

I understand your concern with socialism but you need to get it thru your thick head that the U.S. is very socialist already.

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#30 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3850 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@rmiller365 said:

@JimB: I never mentioned Democrats, and that Binary Black or White thinking is part of the problem, and I was referring to Sessions religious task force, which has been mocked by everyone and quoting old testament as a rationale for turning away asylum seekers.

As for the socialism, you're confusing Socialism (Venezuela) with Democratic Socialism (Denmark, Finland) the two are very different , but Fox news wouldn't want you to know that..

Talking to people that get their info from Fox is worthless. They aren't in the facts game.

Socialism always works until it runs out of other peoples money.

@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:
@rmiller365 said:

Let's all be honest here. It will take the Republican party a decade to recover from what the GOP and Trump has done in the last two years.

Caged and separated families, a rising support in racist movements, a blatant disregard for church and state seperation, and a MASSIVE pile of lies caught on video and constant contradictions are the tip of the iceberg of issues from a party that once thought a BJ in office was an impeachable offence but don't like to discuss paying certian people off to keep an affair quiet.

I'm honestly surprised Paul Ryan was one of the first that jumped the sinking ship.

The Democratic party is no longer an American Political party. They are becoming a socialist party which is against every thing the United States was founded upon and a majority of the citizens. How long will it take the Democratic party to get back to the party for all Americans. As for separation of church which is not in the Constitution you are confusing freedom of religion with freedom from religion.

The United States was founded on anti taxation without representation. So you are wrong of course.

The United States was founded on a government controlled by the people and economic freedom as the basis of our government. Taxation with out representation was a complaint the colonies had against the crown that eventually led to the Revolutionary war.

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deactivated-620299e29a26a

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#31 deactivated-620299e29a26a
Member since 2010 • 1490 Posts

@JimB: You talk about money troubles in in other countries like the US Doesn't own trillions in debt, and the defence of other countries cost to us like we haven't spent trillions on 3 ( on a credit) wars that didn't help anybody while infastructure crumbles without funds back home.

Also, blanket statements aside and back on topic, that still doesn't excuse the fact that the Republican party now looks bad to a younger voting generation.

Look at the average mid 30% approval rating and the rise of racism in America in the last two years.

Let's also not forget, GOP follows Trump, Trump loves Russia, Russia hates democracy.

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LJS9502_basic

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#32  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178808 Posts

@JimB said:

@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:

The Democratic party is no longer an American Political party. They are becoming a socialist party which is against every thing the United States was founded upon and a majority of the citizens. How long will it take the Democratic party to get back to the party for all Americans. As for separation of church which is not in the Constitution you are confusing freedom of religion with freedom from religion.

The United States was founded on anti taxation without representation. So you are wrong of course.

The United States was founded on a government controlled by the people and economic freedom as the basis of our government. Taxation with out representation was a complaint the colonies had against the crown that eventually led to the Revolutionary war.

No. In fact a lot of US citizens did NOT have a voice in the government and the EC was put in specifically to give the rich wealthy white landowners in less populated areas a bigger say. That's nothing but propaganda you posted there.

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JimB

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#33 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3850 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:

The Democratic party is no longer an American Political party. They are becoming a socialist party which is against every thing the United States was founded upon and a majority of the citizens. How long will it take the Democratic party to get back to the party for all Americans. As for separation of church which is not in the Constitution you are confusing freedom of religion with freedom from religion.

The United States was founded on anti taxation without representation. So you are wrong of course.

The United States was founded on a government controlled by the people and economic freedom as the basis of our government. Taxation with out representation was a complaint the colonies had against the crown that eventually led to the Revolutionary war.

No. In fact a lot of US citizens did NOT have a voice in the government and the EC was put in specifically to give the rich wealthy white landowners in less populated areas a bigger say. That's nothing but propaganda you post4ed there.

Economic Freedom has freed more people in the world than any other form of government. As for a voice in the government they were give a right to vote for their leaders something that never happened before in the history of man.

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#34 JimB
Member since 2002 • 3850 Posts

@tryit said:
@JimB said:
@rmiller365 said:

@JimB: I never mentioned Democrats, and that Binary Black or White thinking is part of the problem, and I was referring to Sessions religious task force, which has been mocked by everyone and quoting old testament as a rationale for turning away asylum seekers.

As for the socialism, you're confusing Socialism (Venezuela) with Democratic Socialism (Denmark, Finland) the two are very different , but Fox news wouldn't want you to know that..

Socialism in the Nordic countries is stating to unravel because of the expense to keep it going, also the citizens of the US have to pay for the defense of those countries.

I understand your concern with socialism but you need to get it thru your thick head that the U.S. is very socialist already.

Yes, and its not working get that thru your thick head.

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#35  Edited By JimB
Member since 2002 • 3850 Posts

@rmiller365 said:

@JimB: I never mentioned Democrats, and that Binary Black or White thinking is part of the problem, and I was referring to Sessions religious task force, which has been mocked by everyone and quoting old testament as a rationale for turning away asylum seekers.

As for the socialism, you're confusing Socialism (Venezuela) with Democratic Socialism (Denmark, Finland) the two are very different , but Fox news wouldn't want you to know that..

@rmiller365 said:

@JimB: You talk about money troubles in in other countries like the US Doesn't own trillions in debt, and the defence of other countries cost to us like we haven't spent trillions on 3 ( on a credit) wars that didn't help anybody while infastructure crumbles without funds back home.

Also, blanket statements aside and back on topic, that still doesn't excuse the fact that the Republican party now looks bad to a younger voting generation.

Look at the average mid 30% approval rating and the rise of racism in America in the last two years.

Let's also not forget, GOP follows Trump, Trump loves Russia, Russia hates democracy.

The rise of racism is on the left. The approval rating of Trump has gone from 11% to 22% among blacks his approval ratings has also gone way up among Latinos. Right now they are enjoying the lowest employment rates in history. More women are working in the work force than ever before. Speaki9ng of young voters 40% of millennials are quitting their high paying jobs because they feel they don't get enough time off to do what they want to do. What does that say foe a voting block. During Obamas first year as president the congress gave him $ 800,000,000,000, for infrastructure and the money went to save union jobs and pension plans not the infrastructure so that argument is a dead horse.It the Democratic party who is in love with the Russians as history proves.

https://spectator.org/when-progressives-colluded-with-the-kremlin-in-a-presidential-election/

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#36  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178808 Posts

@JimB said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

No. In fact a lot of US citizens did NOT have a voice in the government and the EC was put in specifically to give the rich wealthy white landowners in less populated areas a bigger say. That's nothing but propaganda you posted there.

Economic Freedom has freed more people in the world than any other form of government. As for a voice in the government they were give a right to vote for their leaders something that never happened before in the history of man.

No. You're categorically wrong. Only certain demographics had a voice. Far from the entire citizenry. Learn history. Also there is much economic disparity in the history of the US. Again..........learn it.

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#37 THE_DRUGGIE
Member since 2006 • 25107 Posts

@tryit said:
@Jacanuk said:
@tryit said:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/31/business-democrats-trump-745479

Even the powerful Koch network appears to be withholding some support for the Republican Party, if not outright supporting Democrats.

The American Bankers Association this month began airing ads in support of candidates for the first time, including Democrats Sen. Jon Tester of Montana and Rep. Lou Correa of California.

“It’s a significant shift in our thinking,” Cresanti said

Good for Republicans, the 1% helping the Democrats is only going to shift more towards Republicans.

yeah hold on tight to that

because those liberals that hate the banks LOVE to separate families, build walls and give out corporate tax cuts.

actually if they change their vote do they have to register with Russia first? how does that work?

It all banks on what hill someone wants to die on, my man.

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#38 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
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Truth be told, many democrats already have large corporate backers. Check the donation lists. The republicans are just more overt, but I dont think the democrats are as squeaky clean as many of you believe. Hillary wasn't giving private speeches to banks and accepting large payouts from big corporations just for kicks.

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#39  Edited By deactivated-620299e29a26a
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@JimB: you're going to have to try that again with better grammar to be taken seriously. But hey I'll take funds for pensions and unions before golf trips and wars that have done nothing anyway.

Say what you want about "the left's" facism, but they never had a president have a meeting with the Kremlin with no other American's present, and then blame his own country and kiss Russian ass for 45 minutes. No denying that, it's all recorded.

Also recorded is a president say "good people on both sides" while a white supremacist (who's group openly stated that they where incoraged by Trump's nationalism) ran down an innocent girl. Its all on youtube jimbo, your argument has never been so invalid.

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#40 horgen  Moderator
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@sonicare said:

Truth be told, many democrats already have large corporate backers. Check the donation lists. The republicans are just more overt, but I dont think the democrats are as squeaky clean as many of you believe. Hillary wasn't giving private speeches to banks and accepting large payouts from big corporations just for kicks.

Oh I don't think anyone here doesn't know already that the Democrats are supported by large corporate.

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#41 JimB
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@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

No. In fact a lot of US citizens did NOT have a voice in the government and the EC was put in specifically to give the rich wealthy white landowners in less populated areas a bigger say. That's nothing but propaganda you posted there.

Economic Freedom has freed more people in the world than any other form of government. As for a voice in the government they were give a right to vote for their leaders something that never happened before in the history of man.

No. You're categorically wrong. Only certain demographics had a voice. Far from the entire citizenry. Learn history. Also there is much economic disparity in the history of the US. Again..........learn it.

I think you should learn history. The real history not what is being taught in our schools.

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#42 JimB
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@rmiller365 said:

@JimB: you're going to have to try that again with better grammar to be taken seriously. But hey I'll take funds for pensions and unions before golf trips and wars that have done nothing anyway.

Say what you want about "the left's" facism, but they never had a president have a meeting with the Kremlin with no other American's present, and then blame his own country and kiss Russian ass for 45 minutes. No denying that, it's all recorded.

Also recorded is a president say "good people on both sides" while a white supremacist (who's group openly stated that they where incoraged by Trump's nationalism) ran down an innocent girl. Its all on youtube jimbo, your argument has never been so invalid.

Let's talk about the saintly left who protest with masks and came armed to a fairly peaceful protest and started the trouble, and the Democratic Governor and Mayor who told the police to step down and not intervein. Then someone gets killed for a political talking point. That is all every incident is about for the lefty a political talking point. I will tell you something else you could walk adown the street with a Hillary or Obama supporting shirt or hat and you would not be bothered. Walk down the street with MAGA hat or tee shirt and you would be assaulted by someone from the left. Those innocent peaceful people who love everyone. Bullshit.

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#43 Maroxad
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@JimB said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

No. In fact a lot of US citizens did NOT have a voice in the government and the EC was put in specifically to give the rich wealthy white landowners in less populated areas a bigger say. That's nothing but propaganda you posted there.

Economic Freedom has freed more people in the world than any other form of government. As for a voice in the government they were give a right to vote for their leaders something that never happened before in the history of man.

No. You're categorically wrong. Only certain demographics had a voice. Far from the entire citizenry. Learn history. Also there is much economic disparity in the history of the US. Again..........learn it.

I think you should learn history. The real history not what is being taught in our schools.

"The real x not what is being taught in our schools."

This sounds a lot what every pseudoscience promoter, alternative history advocate and conspiracy theory nut likes to say.

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#44 horgen  Moderator
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Lets see what a quick google search reveal about voting history in US. Source

When the Constitution was written, only white male property owners (about 10 to 16 percent of the nation's population) had the vote. Over the past two centuries, though, the term "government by the people" has become a reality. During the early 1800s, states gradually dropped property requirements for voting. Later, groups that had been excluded previously gained the right to vote. Other reforms made the process fairer and easier.

  • 1790 - Only white male adult property-owners have the right to vote.
  • 1810 - Last religious prerequisite for voting is eliminated.
  • 1850 - Property ownership and tax requirements eliminated by 1850. Almost all adult white males could vote.
  • 1855 - Connecticut adopts the nation's first literacy test for voting. Massachusetts follows suit in 1857. The tests were implemented to discriminate against Irish-Catholic immigrants.
  • 1870 - The 15th Amendment is passed. It gives former slaves the right to vote and protects the voting rights of adult male citizens of any race.
  • 1889 - Florida adopts a poll tax. Ten other southern states will implement poll taxes.
  • 1890 - Mississippi adopts a literacy test to keep African Americans from voting. Numerous other states—not just in the south—also establish literacy tests. However, the tests also exclude many whites from voting. To get around this, states add grandfather clauses that allow those who could vote before 1870, or their descendants, to vote regardless of literacy or tax qualifications.
  • 1913 - The 17th Amendment calls for members of the U.S. Senateto be elected directly by the people instead of State Legislatures.
  • 1915 - Oklahoma was the last state to append a grandfather clause to its literacy requirement (1910). In Guinnv. United Statesthe Supreme Court rules that the clause is in conflict with the 15th Amendment, thereby outlawing literacy tests for federal elections.
  • 1920 - The 19th Amendment guarantees women's suffrage.
  • 1924 - Indian Citizenship Act grants all Native Americansthe rights of citizenship, including the right to vote in federal elections.
  • 1944 - The Supreme Court outlaws "white primaries" in Smith v. Allwright(Texas). In Texas, and other states, primarieswere conducted by private associations, which, by definion, could exclude whomever they chose. The Court declares the nomination process to be a public process bound by the terms of 15th Amendment.
  • 1957 - The first law to implement the 15th amendment, the Civil Rights Act, is passed. The Act set up the Civil Rights Commission—among its duties is to investigate voter discrimination.
  • 1960 - In Gomillion v. Lightfoot(Alabama) the Court outlaws "gerrymandering."
  • 1961 - The 23rd Amendment allows voters of the District of Columbia to participate in presidential elections.
  • 1964 - The 24th Amendment bans the poll tax as a requirement for voting in federal elections.
  • 1965 -
    • Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., mounts a voter registration drivein Selma, Alabama, to draw national attention to African-American voting rights.
    • The Voting Rights Act protects the rights of minority voters and eliminates voting barriers such as the literacy test. The Act is expanded and renewed in 1970, 1975, and 1982.
  • 1966 -
    • The Supreme Court, in Harperv. Virginia Board of Elections, eliminates the poll tax as a qualification for voting in any election. A poll tax was still in use in Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, and Virginia.
    • The Court upholds the Voting Rights Act in South Carolinav. Katzenbach.
  • 1970 - Literacy requirements are banned for five years by the 1970 renewal of the Voting Rights Act. At the time, eighteen states still have a literacy requirement in place. In Oregonv. Mitchell, the Court upholds the ban on literacy tests, which is made permanent in 1975. Judge Hugo Black, writing the court's opinion, cited the "long history of the discriminatory use of literacy tests to disenfranchise voters on account of their race" as the reason for their decision.
  • 1971 - The 26th amendment sets the minimum voting age at 18.
  • 1972 - In Dunn v. Blumstein, the Supreme Court declares that lengthy residence requirements for voting in state and local elections is unconstitutional and suggests that 30 days is an ample period.
  • 1995 - The Federal "Motor Voter Law" takes effect, making it easier to register to vote.
  • 2003 - Federal Voting Standards and Procedures Act requires states to streamline registration, voting, and other election procedures.
  • 2013 - In Shelby County v. Holder, the Supreme Court strikes down Section 4 of the Voting Rights Act, which established a formula for Congress to use when determining if a state or voting jurisdiction requires prior approval before changing its voting laws. Under Section 5 of the act nine-mostly Southern-states with a history of discrimination must get clearance from Congress before changing voting rules to make sure racial minorities are not negatively affected. While the 5-4 decision did not invalidate Section 5, it made it toothless. Fallout from the ruling was swift, with several states quickly moving to change their voting laws.
  • 2014 - In response to the Shelby County v. Holderruling, several states, including Texas, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Ohio, Alabama, Mississippi, Virginia, and South Carolina, passed laws that limited voting times or required photo ID at the polls. In October, the U.S. Supreme Court blocked law a photo ID law in Wisconsin. The Court, however, in September overturned a federal appeals court ruling that restored a week of early voting and allowed same-day registration in Ohio.
  • 2015 - A federal appeals panel ruled in August that Texas's voter ID law, which was passed in 2011, discriminates against blacks and Hispanics and violates Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. The panel ordered a lower court to re-evaluate if the law was in fact written with discriminatory intent and to fix it if it was passed under such circumstances.

Based on this I would very much argue that only certain demographics had voting rights is true. The law of 1855 in Connecticut which were made to discriminate against Irish-Catholic immigrants. What Mississippi does in 1890 with their grandfather clause to avoid excluding white males...

Wikipedia pretty much agrees as well

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#45 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178808 Posts

@JimB said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

No. In fact a lot of US citizens did NOT have a voice in the government and the EC was put in specifically to give the rich wealthy white landowners in less populated areas a bigger say. That's nothing but propaganda you posted there.

Economic Freedom has freed more people in the world than any other form of government. As for a voice in the government they were give a right to vote for their leaders something that never happened before in the history of man.

No. You're categorically wrong. Only certain demographics had a voice. Far from the entire citizenry. Learn history. Also there is much economic disparity in the history of the US. Again..........learn it.

I think you should learn history. The real history not what is being taught in our schools.

Ah yes if you don't like history you pretend it's wrong. I'm not in school there junior.

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#46 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178808 Posts

@horgen: What you doubted me? :(

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#47 deactivated-620299e29a26a
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@JimB: The whole problem with you're argument is that you seem to think someone else doing something terrible justifies everything terrible the GOP is doing now. Sorry jimbo, the "but mom he'd started it!" Argument didn't work with your mom when you where a kid, and it doesn't validate your argument at all now. Again, nobody mentioned the left until you did to try a build a defence. Its not a hard pattern to pick up on.

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#48 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
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@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@JimB said:

The Democratic party is no longer an American Political party. They are becoming a socialist party which is against every thing the United States was founded upon and a majority of the citizens. How long will it take the Democratic party to get back to the party for all Americans. As for separation of church which is not in the Constitution you are confusing freedom of religion with freedom from religion.

The United States was founded on anti taxation without representation. So you are wrong of course.

The United States was founded on a government controlled by the people and economic freedom as the basis of our government. Taxation with out representation was a complaint the colonies had against the crown that eventually led to the Revolutionary war.

No. In fact a lot of US citizens did NOT have a voice in the government and the EC was put in specifically to give the rich wealthy white landowners in less populated areas a bigger say. That's nothing but propaganda you posted there.

I don't know if that is true about the electoral college. The EC was put into place a long time ago when the demographics and politics of this country were very different. Back then, states were far more separate than they are today. They were essentially individual sovereign nations with very significant differences and practices. I believe the electoral college was somewhat of a compromise between the states so that less populous states wouldn't simply be drowned out by the larger states and have no influence/say in the government.

As for today, I think the EC is less important and could be abolished for presidential elections.

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#49 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178808 Posts

@sonicare said:

I don't know if that is true about the electoral college. The EC was put into place a long time ago when the demographics and politics of this country were very different. Back then, states were far more separate than they are today. They were essentially individual sovereign nations with very significant differences and practices. I believe the electoral college was somewhat of a compromise between the states so that less populous states wouldn't simply be drowned out by the larger states and have no influence/say in the government.

As for today, I think the EC is less important and could be abolished for presidential elections.

The EC was put in place to give less populous but wealthy white landowners a bigger say.

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#50 Maroxad
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@LJS9502_basic said:
@sonicare said:

I don't know if that is true about the electoral college. The EC was put into place a long time ago when the demographics and politics of this country were very different. Back then, states were far more separate than they are today. They were essentially individual sovereign nations with very significant differences and practices. I believe the electoral college was somewhat of a compromise between the states so that less populous states wouldn't simply be drowned out by the larger states and have no influence/say in the government.

As for today, I think the EC is less important and could be abolished for presidential elections.

The EC was put in place to give less populous but wealthy white landowners a bigger say.

I am not american. So take what I say with a grain of salt. But I remember hearing a very similar thing. In addition to the fact that well, information travelled a lot more slowly back then, due to more primitive technology and infrastructure. As a result, and electors could adapt to the latest changes, once they reached The Capitol.