Bipartisan legislators demand answers from Fauci on 'cruel' puppy experiments -The Hill

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MysticalDonut

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#1 MysticalDonut
Member since 2021 • 493 Posts

A bipartisan letter demands answers from the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and President Biden's chief medical adviser.

The White Coat Waste Project, the nonprofit organization that first pointed out that U.S. taxpayers were being used to fund the controversial Wuhan Institute of Virology, have now turned its sights on Anthony Fauci on another animal-testing-related matter — infecting dozens of beagles with disease-causing parasites to test an experimental drug on them.

House members, most of whom are Republicans, want Fauci to explain himself in response to allegations brought on by the White Coat Waste Project that involve drugging puppies.

According to the White Coat Waste Project, the Food and Drug Administration does not require drugs to be tested on dogs, so the group is asking why the need for such testing.

White Coat Waste claims that 44 beagle puppies were used in a Tunisia, North Africa, laboratory, and some of the dogs had their vocal cords removed, allegedly so scientists could work without incessant barking.

Leading the effort is Rep. Nancy Mace (R-S.C.), writing a letter to the National Institutes of Health (NIH) saying the cordectomies are “cruel” and a “reprehensible misuse of taxpayer funds.”

"Our investigators show that Fauci’s NIH division shipped part of a $375,800 grant to a lab in Tunisia to drug beagles and lock their heads in mesh cages filled with hungry sand flies so that the insects could eat them alive," White Coat Waste told Changing America. "They also locked beagles alone in cages in the desert overnight for nine consecutive nights to use them as bait to attract infectious sand flies."

Mace’s letter was signed by Reps. Cindy Axne (D-Iowa), Cliff Bentz (R-Ore.), Steve Cohen (D-Tenn.), Rick Crawford (R-Ark.), Brian Fitzpatrick (R-Pa.), Scott Franklin (R-Fla.), Andrew Garbarino (R-N.Y.), Carlos Gimenez (R-Fla.), Jimmy Gomez (D-Calif.), Josh Gottheimer (D-N.J.), Fred Keller (R-Pa.), Ted Lieu (D-Calif.), Lisa McClain (R-Mich.), Nicole Malliotakis (R-N.Y.), Brian Mast (R-Fla.), Scott Perry (R-Pa.), Bill Posey (R-Fla.), Mike Quigley (D-Ill.), Lucille Roybal-Allard (D-Calif.), Maria E. Salazar (R-Fla.), Terri Sewell (D-Ala.), Daniel Webster (R-Fla.) and Del. Eleanor Holmes (D-D.C.)

The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases did not immediately respond to a request for comment from Changing America.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/578086-bipartisan-legislators-demand-answers-from-fauci

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SargentD

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#2 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 1554 Posts

Disgusting and this is not new. Basically our health organizations just pay to do these experiments over seas to avoid legalities here in the states. What they did to those pups is horrible.

This only got light shown on because Fauci was called out for lying to Congress about them funding gain of function research by Rand Paul. Since then people have been digging and finding out more stuff they have funded over seas.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#3  Edited By GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 16048 Posts

At some point are they going to question the people at the Tunisian lab who utilized these methods? They had to have falsely represented their procedures to be contracted in the first place. What is the name of the Tunisian company?

According to the study summary, "The Institut Pasteur de Tunis complies with the European Directive for the Protection of Vertebrate Animals used for experimental and other scientific purposes (2010/63/EU)"

I guess "Institut Pasteur de Tunis" is the company contracted, and they claimed to have complied with European regulations.

'Infected dogs were housed individually in one part of the dog kennel where they received daily regular veterinary care. Uninfected dogs were housed in a separate part of the kennels.'

'Access from the central part B of the apparatus to sections A and C was initially restricted by netting placed over the connecting openings. After the sand flies had been introduced into the central section, they were allowed to acclimatize for (20 mins) then the netting covering the connecting openings to both sections A and C were removed to allow the free movement of P. perniciosus toward either the infected or uninfected dog. After 20 minutes, the connecting openings between the central section B and side sections A and C were closed. The sand flies were then allowed to feed on the sedated dogs for 60 min in the dark at 27°C. After this time the number of engorged and unfed female P. perniciosus in section A and C were counted as well as the number of females in section B [considered as not responding (NR)] were counted. The experiment was replicated six times with six different pairs of infected and uninfected dogs. For each pair of dogs we carried out 5 replicates. A total of 30 replicates were done for this experiment. To control for any effect side bias, the positions of the infected and uninfected dogs were swapped every replicate. The work was performed in a bio-safety level laboratory 2.'

It seems like the people running the study were misrepresenting their methods? This doesn't sound like they were left out in the desert for 9 consecutive nights, but that they were in a lab exposed 60 minutes at a time under anesthesia.

If you use drugs they were likely tested and the animals did suffer. This includes toxicology tests, where they see how much of a drug is too much, and vets try to treat it to see how a hospital might treat an overdose, and the animals are not terminated unless they are moribund.

Yes, this is animal testing, and it is done. And yes, when labs get animals, they are young pups, because the animals are grown specifically for that purpose, and are not going to be taken care of any longer than they need to in order to be able to be shipped to the lab. After the testing is done, they are typically terminated because analysis of every part of the animal needs to be done including the brain. I'm surprised for this test they inherited animals first used in another test.

Anyway as to whether this particular case is necessary testing or not, I have no idea. But unfortunately as far as testing, it is common for the animal to be given the condition (either simulated, like injecting collagen to simulate arthritis, or authentically) meant to be treated by the pharmaceutical.

I am wondering about the status of their dialog with the "Institut Pasteur de Tunis"

According to a local news source,

Hechmi Louzir, director of the [Institut Pasteur de Tunis], for his part categorically denied any involvement of his institute in such cruelties and any mistreatment of the [animals]

"the research carried out at the Institut Pasteur falls within the framework of research on visceral lichmaniasis." And to add that " this research is carried out with respect and scientific ethics"

I would like to see, how according to article TC linked, that:

"Our investigators show that Fauci’s NIH division shipped part of a $375,800 grant to a lab in Tunisia to drug beagles and lock their heads in mesh cages filled with hungry sand flies so that the insects could eat them alive," White Coat Waste told Changing America.

How have they shown this to be true? Was the NIH division aware of the deviations? How does the lab get certified for the EU standards and how did they compromise the mandatory inspections to maintain certification?

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Eoten

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#4 Eoten  Online
Member since 2020 • 5784 Posts

Fauci would have really fit in with many of the scientists of the Nazi party.

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Solaryellow

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#5  Edited By Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 6386 Posts

Argentina and Brazil might be to his liking. He's been a joke since day one.

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TheNation

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#6 TheNation
Member since 2021 • 1542 Posts

@Solaryellow: No he hasnt. This is just another right wing hit piece, all designed to discredit his stance on covid.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#7 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 16048 Posts

@Solaryellow said:

Argentina and Brazil might be to his liking. He's been a joke since day one.

But "The best people" and "Drain the swamp"

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LJS9502_basic

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#8 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 174336 Posts

@thenation said:

@Solaryellow: No he hasnt. This is just another right wing hit piece, all designed to discredit his stance on covid.

I don't take right wing talking points seriously. They constantly have something to be outraged about because they don't want to face facts.

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TheNation

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#9 TheNation
Member since 2021 • 1542 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: Pretty much. Thats what they are using this as. Anything to distract from reality. Eoten is even trying to compare Biden to Hitler. Not sure if this is sad or scary.

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Eoten

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#10  Edited By Eoten  Online
Member since 2020 • 5784 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@thenation said:

@Solaryellow: No he hasnt. This is just another right wing hit piece, all designed to discredit his stance on covid.

I don't take right wing talking points seriously. They constantly have something to be outraged about because they don't want to face facts.

Right, just like it was a right-wing conspiracy theory to suggest the NIH was funding gain of function research in Wuhan. It had to have been, Fauci denied those allegations. Yet, NIH has been forced to admit this to be the truth.

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TheNation

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#11 TheNation
Member since 2021 • 1542 Posts

@eoten: citation needed

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Maroxad

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#12 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 18144 Posts

Honestly, there is a reason pharma corporations are often portrayed as a villainous faction. However, it looks like this article has mostly been refuted at this point, so I will wait for more information for The Hill to back up their stance.

@LJS9502_basic said:
@thenation said:

@Solaryellow: No he hasnt. This is just another right wing hit piece, all designed to discredit his stance on covid.

I don't take right wing talking points seriously. They constantly have something to be outraged about because they don't want to face facts.

I want to make a timeline showing various right wing outrage. But the graph is currently lacking a lot of information. But it shows very much just how hollow outrage culture is.

Here is my current work,

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Stevo_the_gamer

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#13 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator  Online
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"Allegedly, 44 beagle puppies were used in a North Africa laboratory, and some of the dogs had their vocal cords removed so scientists could work without incessant barking."

Jesus christ...

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rmiller365

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#14  Edited By rmiller365
Member since 2010 • 1427 Posts

Honestly, This isn't anything new. According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), laboratories reported having approximately 43,000 dogs in their testing facilities in 2020. They test them on everything from pesticides to drugs for FDA approval. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) also requires that dogs be used in a 90-day pesticide test and the Food and Drug Administration, which regulates various products such as drugs, devices and food and color additives, will not approve potential drugs unless they are first tested on animals, which usually includes dogs since they have historically been used. This tactic has been used for decades, and the animal is typically killed to harvest and test the body after testing has been completed. Yeah, it's barbaric, but that's the price to pay for FDA drug approval.

Source:

https://www.humanesociety.org/resources/dogs-used-experiments-faq

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#15  Edited By GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 16048 Posts

@Stevo_the_gamer: Definitely not standard practice, techs just wear earplugs and house animals in sound proof rooms, so I wonder why they believe it was performed and how they documented this. But if you think that's bad, a lot of guard dogs kept on premises have the same thing done, and are perpetually chained on location and kept out in all kinds of weather.

@rmiller365: Exactly, and not just the price of FDA drug approval but we want a pharmaceutical to behave as intended when introduced into our bodies and apparently a lot of people don't want to be experimented on and hate the idea of having something like a vaccine not be tested in advance.

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comp_atkins

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#16  Edited By comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 37454 Posts
@thenation said:

@Solaryellow: No he hasnt. This is just another right wing hit piece, all designed to discredit his stance on covid.

it's hilarious that a generally well-respected scientist ( for decades under both R and D administrations ) is now the enemy of the rightnuts because he said people should wear masks and not cough on each other during a global pandemic

strange times we live in

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horgen

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#17 horgen  Moderator
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How else do you gather data for LD50? Among other things...

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mattbbpl

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#18 mattbbpl
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@comp_atkins said:
@thenation said:

@Solaryellow: No he hasnt. This is just another right wing hit piece, all designed to discredit his stance on covid.

it's hilarious that a generally well-respected scientist ( for decades under both R and D administrations ) is now the enemy of the rightnuts because he said people should wear masks and not cough on each other during a global pandemic

strange times we live in

The current state of affairs is truly bizarre. The gap between the two parties in basic understanding has become so vast that they can't speak to each other. I don't mean "speak to each other in civil tones" but rather "speak to each other in ways each will understand."

Communication requires some foundation upon which the two parties agree on and can refer to. But we've lost that foundation on basic cornerstones such as scientific consensus and philosophical groundings.

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TheNation

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#19 TheNation
Member since 2021 • 1542 Posts

@comp_atkins: Happens when a con man takes over. I dont havecan opinion on this.

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Vaasman

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#20 Vaasman
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I'd like to see evidence that the grant provided by the NIH says "please torture cute puppies k thanks" because what this sounds like is a BS hitpiece where the government is providing to a multitude of general scientific facilities for a broad spectrum of animal testing, and one of those facilities just happened to be particularly mean to animal subjects. And no, animal testing is not fun, and many animals are mistreated or euthanized, but there aren't many alternatives if we want medical treatment to advance (it's the law that most medications must pass animal trials before human trials).

Not to mention I somewhat doubt Fauci himself had anything to do with it, all the article can say is the grant came from his department.

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LJS9502_basic

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#21 LJS9502_basic
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@Vaasman said:

I'd like to see evidence that the grant provided by the NIH says "please torture cute puppies k thanks" because what this sounds like is a BS hitpiece where the government is providing to a multitude of general scientific facilities for a broad spectrum of animal testing, and one of those facilities just happened to be particularly mean to animal subjects. And no, animal testing is not fun, and many animals are mistreated or euthanized, but there aren't many alternatives if we want medical treatment to advance (it's the law that most medications must pass animal trials before human trials).

Not to mention I somewhat doubt Fauci himself had anything to do with it, all the article can say is the grant came from his department.

Oh no doubt. But the outrage man. Never mind things like the Rolling Stone investigation that shows members of Congress involved in planning January Sixth.

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TheNation

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#22 TheNation
Member since 2021 • 1542 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: I knew it was a red herring. Dont worry about whats going on over there, focus on this puppy.

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firedrakes

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#23 firedrakes
Member since 2004 • 3487 Posts

what with the seuss thing? why they made about that?

@Maroxad said:

Honestly, there is a reason pharma corporations are often portrayed as a villainous faction. However, it looks like this article has mostly been refuted at this point, so I will wait for more information for The Hill to back up their stance.

@LJS9502_basic said:
@thenation said:

@Solaryellow: No he hasnt. This is just another right wing hit piece, all designed to discredit his stance on covid.

I don't take right wing talking points seriously. They constantly have something to be outraged about because they don't want to face facts.

I want to make a timeline showing various right wing outrage. But the graph is currently lacking a lot of information. But it shows very much just how hollow outrage culture is.

Here is my current work,

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SUD123456

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#24 SUD123456
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Republicans selectively discover animal testing...how quaint.

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Stevo_the_gamer

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#25 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator  Online
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@girlusocrazy said:

@Stevo_the_gamer: Definitely not standard practice, techs just wear earplugs and house animals in sound proof rooms, so I wonder why they believe it was performed and how they documented this. But if you think that's bad, a lot of guard dogs kept on premises have the same thing done, and are perpetually chained on location and kept out in all kinds of weather.

It's definitely eye-catching to read for sure, I always presumed animal testing was mostly limited to rodents like rabbits/mice. Definitely a subject to dive further into and educate myself on.

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lundy86_4

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#26 lundy86_4  Online
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GirlUSoCrazy

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#27  Edited By GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 16048 Posts

@Stevo_the_gamer: Beagles are common, so are pigs, ferrets, Guinea pigs, hamsters, rabbits, cows, and non-human primates. I guess it depends what part of the body they need to target.

They can have animals that have no immune response whatsoever so that they can see the abilities of the virus/bacteria and be sure that the pharmaceutical is treating the problem and not just the body's immune system learning to fight it. The animals would not survive outside the lab normally due to no immune system.

They can't just be taken outside in the desert overnight to be left out in the elements or whatever else. That would compromise the data recorded.

The animals are specifically bred for this purpose, and would not exist otherwise. They are always in controlled environments and observed, and treated by vets if the problem is treatable, as a doctor would perform. They can't just take strays with who knows what problem. They take a known breed with known qualities.

The people working there from what I understand try to do their best to care for them and alleviate conditions as much as possible, as we expect a human with that condition to be treated. The point is to see the best they can do in the circumstances and aim for perfect rehabilitation, as we would want IRL should the condition occur.

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SargentD

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#28 SargentD
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"Our investigators show that Fauci’s NIH division shipped part of a $375,800 grant to a lab in Tunisia to drug beagles and lock their heads in mesh cages filled with hungry sand flies so that the insects could eat them alive"

There has got to be a better way to test what ever drug they are trying to make..

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TheNation

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#29 TheNation
Member since 2021 • 1542 Posts

@sargentd: Sounds fake….

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HoolaHoopMan

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#30 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 13086 Posts

GOP has been brushing aside 700k human deaths and all of a sudden they're crying animal abuse?

L O L

What a weak hit piece.

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SargentD

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#31 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 1554 Posts

@thenation: I hope it's fake, if that's real it's horrible and disgusting

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TheNation

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#32 TheNation
Member since 2021 • 1542 Posts

@sargentd: Doesnt sound real. Other than our investigators, what is there?

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#33  Edited By Nirgal
Member since 2019 • 427 Posts

I wonder if people will bring this up when Fauci makes a covid related recommendation.

"Can you trust this guy! Look at the type of research he is doing! We should take advice from the guy reccomending to drink desinfectant. He knows what's up."

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#34 Ghost_of_Phobos
Member since 2020 • 2970 Posts

OMG Republicans are getting woke now!!! Better late than never I guess.

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Maroxad

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#35 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 18144 Posts

@firedrakes:It has to do when they stopped selling a few books that contained racist material. There was a huge uproar about that.

@sargentd: It is disgusting indeed. This is why I have never been keen on Animal Testing. But at the same time, the results cannot be argued against. I did what I could though, and helped volunteer for scientific research, as a test subject.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#36  Edited By GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 16048 Posts

@Maroxad: Thanks for volunteering.

At least computer modeling can do a lot of the preliminary work, there is in-vitro testing such as with Epiderm and Vitrocell, and combinations such as organs on chips. Of course these aren't completely replacing animal testing but there are more ways to eliminate unnecessary testing. We have come a long way with technology and there is still room to grow.

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sonic_spark

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#37 sonic_spark
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@thenation said:

@eoten: citation needed

Loading Video...

Anyone who doesn't think it didn't come from a lab is kidding themselves. Even left wing commentators like Jon Stewart and Bill Maher (both of whom I think are amazing) agree it came from a lab.

Bats have been eaten for centuries. This video is so well done, and Colbert was cringing because he knows it doesn't fit the network's narrative.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#38  Edited By GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 16048 Posts

@sonic_spark: Sounds like they're making fun of it in the video

I mean mutations have to originate from somewhere but there's a saying "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

There have been coronaviruses before, like the cold/flu they mutate, there's been transmission to/from animals before

Anyway I thought this thread was about the Tunisian lab allegedly mistreating dogs, nobody cares anymore? That was quick

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blaznwiipspman1

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#39 blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 9077 Posts

@mysticaldonut: its messed up but its also true that the testing helped save lives. Can you blame fauci in that case?

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comp_atkins

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#40 comp_atkins
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Fauci man bad!

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LJS9502_basic

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#41 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 174336 Posts

@comp_atkins said:

Fauci man bad!

Fauci derangement syndrome!

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TheNation

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#42  Edited By TheNation
Member since 2021 • 1542 Posts

@sonic_spark: lol. You dont know when you are being made fun of. And who brought up the lab theory? Other than you.

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sonic_spark

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#43 sonic_spark
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@thenation said:

@sonic_spark: lol. You dont know when you are being made fun of. And who brought up the lab theory? Other than you.

Your response to eoten regarding the NIH funding the Wuhan Lab. Of which, the connection is there: https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2021/10/25/nih-wuhan-lab-experiments-holmes-dnt-the-lead-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/coronavirus/

Being made fun of? By Jon Stewart? Don't deflect, this is not some right wing backwater conspiracy theory. It is a theory in which many prominent REAL liberals, not these progressive jokes, support.

Bill Maher: https://news.yahoo.com/bill-maher-blasts-big-tech-183200440.html

Jon Stewart explaining his appearance on Colbert: https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/jon-stewart-surprised-at-pushback-sharing-covid-19-lab-leak-theory

Biden official: https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/16/politics/biden-intel-review-covid-origins/index.html

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TheNation

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#44 TheNation
Member since 2021 • 1542 Posts

@sonic_spark: Ok bud. Lol.

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Eoten

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#45 Eoten  Online
Member since 2020 • 5784 Posts

@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@mysticaldonut: its messed up but its also true that the testing helped save lives. Can you blame fauci in that case?

The only lives Fauci cares about is his own. And let's stop pretending that scientific experiments are always and only being conducted for the interest of the public, and not quite often for sick curiosity. Science has all too often been used for evil and nefarious things, so the idea many people have that we should always assume they know or are doing what's best or only act out of benevolence is extremely misguided. A lot of fucked up shit has been done in the name of science, let's not forget that.

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LJS9502_basic

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#46 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 174336 Posts

@eoten said:
@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@mysticaldonut: its messed up but its also true that the testing helped save lives. Can you blame fauci in that case?

The only lives Fauci cares about is his own. And let's stop pretending that scientific experiments are always and only being conducted for the interest of the public, and not quite often for sick curiosity. Science has all too often been used for evil and nefarious things, so the idea many people have that we should always assume they know or are doing what's best or only act out of benevolence is extremely misguided. A lot of fucked up shit has been done in the name of science, let's not forget that.

Arrogant to assume you know the motives of people whom you haven't even met.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#47 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 16048 Posts

@eoten said:
@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@mysticaldonut: its messed up but its also true that the testing helped save lives. Can you blame fauci in that case?

The only lives Fauci cares about is his own. And let's stop pretending that scientific experiments are always and only being conducted for the interest of the public, and not quite often for sick curiosity. Science has all too often been used for evil and nefarious things, so the idea many people have that we should always assume they know or are doing what's best or only act out of benevolence is extremely misguided. A lot of fucked up shit has been done in the name of science, let's not forget that.

Ok, PETA. I'm sure his kink is torturing beagles 🤣

So how did they say the Tunisian lab managed to eschew local and international regulations and circumvent mandatory inspections?

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firedrakes

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#48 firedrakes
Member since 2004 • 3487 Posts

really odd i cant find much info on this site... which is telling itself.

hell the about page is so poorly done. it trips over itself.

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br0kenrabbit

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#49  Edited By br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 17085 Posts

OP better not look up Anti-Tank Dogs or he'll pop a bolt.

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Eoten

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#50  Edited By Eoten  Online
Member since 2020 • 5784 Posts
@LJS9502_basic said:
@eoten said:
@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@mysticaldonut: its messed up but its also true that the testing helped save lives. Can you blame fauci in that case?

The only lives Fauci cares about is his own. And let's stop pretending that scientific experiments are always and only being conducted for the interest of the public, and not quite often for sick curiosity. Science has all too often been used for evil and nefarious things, so the idea many people have that we should always assume they know or are doing what's best or only act out of benevolence is extremely misguided. A lot of fucked up shit has been done in the name of science, let's not forget that.

Arrogant to assume you know the motives of people whom you haven't even met.

Yet, you're assuming his motives are selfless. I just look at his history. You'll see quite a lot of parallels to his actions of the past when compared to today.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/whitewashing-aids-history_b_4762295

No need to assume the motives he makes so apparent to anyone who has paid attention.