AOC proves once again that her detractors are dumb.

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Avatar image for texasgoldrush
#1 Edited by texasgoldrush (12918 posts) -

WOW, what a week.

AOC compared correctly the migrant detention centers on the border to concentration camps earlier this week, and sure enough, her detractors come out and made complete fools of themselves, either through ignorance or outright fear in defense of a horrific inhumane policy. From the looks of it AOC carefully planned this, this was no off the cuff remarks on Instagram. She was therefor ready for her detractors on Twitter, immediately brought out scholarly articles on Twitter, completely eviscerated Liz Cheney, and retweeted her defenders (especially Jewish historians, descendants of Holocaust survivors, and George Takei). Instead of "apologizing", she has doubled down in the coming days, owning more detractors including Chuck Todd (well he came pre-owned by a supporter who pointed out the flaws of his logic). A horrifying article later boosts her case, and now she has been able to establish her position for the long term. This will be a long term battle and it will be a slugfest.

Detractors have made several mistakes. One way to be an instant moron is comparing her remarks directly with the death camps of Nazi Germany and then saying she needs to learn history. This ignorance comes from GOP trying to use the Holocaust as a political football, or pro-Israel Zionists who think terms such as "Never Again" is for Jews alone (AOC has gotten a lot of support from Jews). The fact is concentration camps have existed before and after WWII and the US actually has a history of using them. The Holocaust is the end result, not the starting point, of the process of the creation and use of concentration camps. Next is the idiocy of this notion that using the term alienates people and doesn't solve the problem. Wrong.

AOC so far has been a political genius. The strategy she uses is very risky, but effective. She uses pressure in a way that makes the opposition's position untenable. She did it with the Green New Deal, she did it several times on issues during committee hearings, and she is doing it here. If she can define the GOP's position as enabling human rights abuses including the death of children, they can be pressured to close these camps or make the GOP and Trump pay a huge political price. Her detractors once again, stupidly underestimate her political skill and forget the fact that she is a human rights advocate and activist. The GOP and centrist Dems have never faced a progressive that can effectively sucker punch them and outwit them. And if she does it here, lives will be saved.

Avatar image for horgen
#2 Edited by Horgen (120931 posts) -

Keep it nice and clean folks.

Edit: Holy shit. From the article you link to:

“In my 22 years of doing visits with children in detention, I have never heard of this level of inhumanity,” said Holly Cooper, who co-directs University of California, Davis’ Immigration Law Clinic and represents detained youth.

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#3 Posted by texasgoldrush (12918 posts) -

@horgen said:

Keep it nice and clean folks.

Edit: Holy shit. From the article you link to:

“In my 22 years of doing visits with children in detention, I have never heard of this level of inhumanity,” said Holly Cooper, who co-directs University of California, Davis’ Immigration Law Clinic and represents detained youth.

It gets worse

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/four-severely-ill-migrant-babies-hospitalized-after-lawyers-visited-border-patrol-facility_n_5d0d3bbce4b07ae90d9cfe4f

Avatar image for horgen
#4 Posted by Horgen (120931 posts) -

@texasgoldrush said:
@horgen said:

Keep it nice and clean folks.

Edit: Holy shit. From the article you link to:

“In my 22 years of doing visits with children in detention, I have never heard of this level of inhumanity,” said Holly Cooper, who co-directs University of California, Davis’ Immigration Law Clinic and represents detained youth.

It gets worse

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/four-severely-ill-migrant-babies-hospitalized-after-lawyers-visited-border-patrol-facility_n_5d0d3bbce4b07ae90d9cfe4f

Just maybe they should have doctors visit instead?

Avatar image for mattbbpl
#5 Posted by mattbbpl (17365 posts) -

@horgen: I've been following this story for a couple days, and some of the claims levied are mind blowing. It's insane.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#6 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166916 posts) -

@mattbbpl said:

@horgen: I've been following this story for a couple days, and some of the claims levied are mind blowing. It's insane.

It's despicable.

Avatar image for vl4d_l3nin
#7 Edited by vl4d_l3nin (1922 posts) -
@LJS9502_basic said:
@mattbbpl said:

@horgen: I've been following this story for a couple days, and some of the claims levied are mind blowing. It's insane.

It's despicable.

Dems should block more funding. That will solve the problem.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#8 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166916 posts) -

@vl4d_l3nin said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@mattbbpl said:

@horgen: I've been following this story for a couple days, and some of the claims levied are mind blowing. It's insane.

It's despicable.

Dems should block more funding. That will solve the problem.

Oh look our old friend whataboutism is back...……….

Avatar image for Jacanuk
#9 Posted by Jacanuk (18728 posts) -

@texasgoldrush: I know you are just trolling but here is a link https://c8.alamy.com/comp/KWC4T9/cremation-oven-at-the-lublinmajdanek-concentration-camp-poland-it-KWC4T9.jpg

And please go read up on what a concentration camp is.

But /bringsoutthepopcorn because this thread lol

Avatar image for vl4d_l3nin
#10 Posted by vl4d_l3nin (1922 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic: Money is the ONLY thing that is going to solve this problem. Libs on this board were laughing at how hard Trump got owned when funding was cut. Reap what you sow.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#11 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166916 posts) -

@vl4d_l3nin said:

@LJS9502_basic: Money is the ONLY thing that is going to solve this problem. Libs on this board were laughing at how hard Trump got owned when funding was cut. Reap what you sow.

Or maybe we expedite the system rather than leaving children languishing ill in "detention" centers. Also due to trump's tax cuts there is less money for programs. Now who sowed that and who should reap it?

Avatar image for vl4d_l3nin
#12 Posted by vl4d_l3nin (1922 posts) -

@Jacanuk: Nazi concentration camps first thing that pops up on Google, Bing, Yahoo, and the human brain. Followed up with "Never Again" made it painfully obvious and people are being radically disingenuous.

And yes, TC is a trolololol

Avatar image for mrbojangles25
#13 Posted by mrbojangles25 (44169 posts) -

The world is not smart enough yet for AOC, she is too early. That woman drops truth bombs, calls them like she sees them but in a non-asshole manner, and then people get on her case.

It's a shame she is not a man and not running for president, because if voters really wanted an outsider that fought for them, they'd for for her and not Trump. But alas, not running yet. Maybe in 10-20 years? One can hope.

Also, not to come off insensitive, but Jews don't have a monopoly on persecution any more than African-Americans have a monopoly on slavery; to make comparisons to concentration/internment camps is a totally valid thing to do, seeing as how people being a.) rounded up based on race/religion/etc, b.) removed from their families, and c.) placed into camps has been going on for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. So to say it's offensive to Jews and to use the Holocaust as a political tool in an attempt to shut down a rival is simply disgusting on part of anyone that has objected to AOC in that fashion.

I feel like I am doing a full 360. During college (Bush Jr) I was like "Screw this country! RAWWWWR we gotta fight and protest!" then I graduated and became too busy to care, now I am in a stable well-paying job and I'm back to "Man this is outrageous! I hate my country". I don't really hate my country, but sometimes it is difficult to love.

Wish we could put 95% of the GOP and half the Dems in a concentration camp...

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#14 Posted by vl4d_l3nin (1922 posts) -
@LJS9502_basic said:
@vl4d_l3nin said:

@LJS9502_basic: Money is the ONLY thing that is going to solve this problem. Libs on this board were laughing at how hard Trump got owned when funding was cut. Reap what you sow.

Or maybe we expedite the system rather than leaving children languishing ill in "detention" centers. Also due to trump's tax cuts there is less money for programs. Now who sowed that and who should reap it?

THis country hasn't had any money is a while. That's never stopped anything

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#15 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166916 posts) -

@vl4d_l3nin said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@vl4d_l3nin said:

@LJS9502_basic: Money is the ONLY thing that is going to solve this problem. Libs on this board were laughing at how hard Trump got owned when funding was cut. Reap what you sow.

Or maybe we expedite the system rather than leaving children languishing ill in "detention" centers. Also due to trump's tax cuts there is less money for programs. Now who sowed that and who should reap it?

THis country hasn't had any money is a while. That's never stopped anything

If you're whining about current cuts to programs you have to face the tax cuts as the culprit. Period. Stop trying to hide.

Avatar image for Jacanuk
#16 Posted by Jacanuk (18728 posts) -
@vl4d_l3nin said:

@Jacanuk: Nazi concentration camps first thing that pops up on Google, Bing, Yahoo, and the human brain. Followed up with "Never Again" made it painfully obvious and people are being radically disingenuous.

And yes, TC is a trolololol

Yep, and as someone who had family who actually got thrown into a concentration camp it´s an insult to hear uneducated people misuse the word so severely

I know we are almost 70 years away from the horror but perhaps this is the fault of the American education system, because how can someone even begin to compare the two... it´s mindboggling

Avatar image for mrbojangles25
#17 Edited by mrbojangles25 (44169 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:
@vl4d_l3nin said:

@Jacanuk: Nazi concentration camps first thing that pops up on Google, Bing, Yahoo, and the human brain. Followed up with "Never Again" made it painfully obvious and people are being radically disingenuous.

And yes, TC is a trolololol

Yep, and as someone who had family who actually got thrown into a concentration camp it´s an insult to hear uneducated people misuse the word so severely

I know we are almost 70 years away from the horror but perhaps this is the fault of the American education system, because how can someone even begin to compare the two... it´s mindboggling

I don't think we are really comparing the two in literal terms, but I think that comparison inevitably comes into one's mind subjectively.

I mean, think about slavery for a second. As an American, the first thing that comes to mind is African-American slaves. I would be very uncomfortable talking about slavery around black people. But slavery existed in America before Africans were enslaved here with the native people, slavery existed before the Egyptians enslaved the Jews....slavery just exists.

As I said earlier, I don't think Jews have a monopoly on the concept of a "concentration camp", it just might be the "best" example of it. Alternatively, AOC maybe could have used the term "internment camp"? But then she'd have Asians giving her shit. I guess speaking the truth is a lose-lose prospect in the political game.

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#18 Edited by Zaryia (9491 posts) -
@Jacanuk said:
@vl4d_l3nin said:

@Jacanuk: Nazi concentration camps first thing that pops up on Google, Bing, Yahoo, and the human brain. Followed up with "Never Again" made it painfully obvious and people are being radically disingenuous.

And yes, TC is a trolololol

Yep, and as someone who had family who actually got thrown into a concentration camp it´s an insult to hear uneducated people misuse the word so severely

I know we are almost 70 years away from the horror but perhaps this is the fault of the American education system, because how can someone even begin to compare the two... it´s mindboggling

They weren't compared.

She called it a concentration camp, because it is one by definition.

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#19 Posted by mattbbpl (17365 posts) -

@Jacanuk: You can be offended by the term all you want, but that's what they are.

Avatar image for Jacanuk
#20 Posted by Jacanuk (18728 posts) -
@mrbojangles25 said:
@Jacanuk said:
@vl4d_l3nin said:

@Jacanuk: Nazi concentration camps first thing that pops up on Google, Bing, Yahoo, and the human brain. Followed up with "Never Again" made it painfully obvious and people are being radically disingenuous.

And yes, TC is a trolololol

Yep, and as someone who had family who actually got thrown into a concentration camp it´s an insult to hear uneducated people misuse the word so severely

I know we are almost 70 years away from the horror but perhaps this is the fault of the American education system, because how can someone even begin to compare the two... it´s mindboggling

I don't think we are really comparing the two in literal terms, but I think that comparison inevitably comes into one's mind subjectively.

I mean, think about slavery for a second. As an American, the first thing that comes to mind is African-American slaves. I would be very uncomfortable talking about slavery around black people. But slavery existed in America before Africans were enslaved here with the native people, slavery existed before the Egyptians enslaved the Jews....slavery just exists.

As I said earlier, I don't think Jews have a monopoly on the concept of a "concentration camp", it just might be the "best" example of it. Alternatively, AOC maybe could have used the term "internment camp"? But then she'd have Asians giving her shit. I guess speaking the truth is a lose-lose prospect in the political game.

If you are a somewhat educated person in history the first thing that comes into anyone´s mind when you use the word concentration camp is the camps during the second world war, and do you honestly feel any comparison to that is warranted when we are talking about detaining centres in America? And try not to get too political here, let´s keep a neutral mind.

Slavery is a different matter but yet as you are blatantly aware, not just black people got to be slaves before that industry become a reality countless white slaves was used especially to build the initial colonies in America and Australia. But if you mention slavery today, everyone assumes you mean one thing so no one tries to misuse that word.

It´s almost the same deal with concentration camps (which only should be used about one thing), which btw was not just happening to jews, many other groups like gipsies, homosexuals, normal dissidents and political opponents, not to mention cops, resistance fighters and normal citizens who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time also got thrown into them.

While internment camps are a better term they could use, it´s still wrong but she knows what words to use to make her opinion something the media talk about because Republicans are too dumb to see the tricks she uses to get into the spotlight. And if she used the truth "detainment centres" no one would care one second about what she has to say.

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#21 Posted by mattbbpl (17365 posts) -

@Jacanuk: Awesome, so we agree that they're concentration camps.

Progress!

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#22 Edited by mrbojangles25 (44169 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
@Jacanuk said:
@vl4d_l3nin said:

@Jacanuk: Nazi concentration camps first thing that pops up on Google, Bing, Yahoo, and the human brain. Followed up with "Never Again" made it painfully obvious and people are being radically disingenuous.

And yes, TC is a trolololol

Yep, and as someone who had family who actually got thrown into a concentration camp it´s an insult to hear uneducated people misuse the word so severely

I know we are almost 70 years away from the horror but perhaps this is the fault of the American education system, because how can someone even begin to compare the two... it´s mindboggling

I don't think we are really comparing the two in literal terms, but I think that comparison inevitably comes into one's mind subjectively.

I mean, think about slavery for a second. As an American, the first thing that comes to mind is African-American slaves. I would be very uncomfortable talking about slavery around black people. But slavery existed in America before Africans were enslaved here with the native people, slavery existed before the Egyptians enslaved the Jews....slavery just exists.

As I said earlier, I don't think Jews have a monopoly on the concept of a "concentration camp", it just might be the "best" example of it. Alternatively, AOC maybe could have used the term "internment camp"? But then she'd have Asians giving her shit. I guess speaking the truth is a lose-lose prospect in the political game.

If you are a somewhat educated person in history the first thing that comes into anyone´s mind when you use the word concentration camp is the camps during the second world war, and do you honestly feel any comparison to that is warranted when we are talking about detaining centres in America? And try not to get too political here, let´s keep a neutral mind.

Slavery is a different matter but yet as you are blatantly aware, not just black people got to be slaves before that industry become a reality countless white slaves was used especially to build the initial colonies in America and Australia. But if you mention slavery today, everyone assumes you mean one thing so no one tries to misuse that word.

It´s almost the same deal with concentration camps (which only should be used about one thing), which btw was not just happening to jews, many other groups like gipsies, homosexuals, normal dissidents and political opponents, not to mention cops, resistance fighters and normal citizens who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time also got thrown into them.

While internment camps are a better term they could use, it´s still wrong but she knows what words to use to make her opinion something the media talk about because Republicans are too dumb to see the tricks she uses to get into the spotlight. And if she used the truth "detainment centres" no one would care one second about what she has to say.

Yeah the first thing that comes to mind is of course the Holocaust and those concentration camps. I don't think that is really the point here; I think, at least what I am trying to say, is that the term "concentration camp" can be used for other things.

Calling it a "detainment camp" is definitely making it political. That's like saying "I regret this happened" instead of saying "I am sorry I did that", or "Hey that's a good question, I am glad you asked that, and here is what I think" instead of "Damn I don't know the answer", or calling a civil war with thousands of deaths a "conflict", or referring to painful civilian deaths as "collateral damage".

if they weren't being political, it'd be called "questionably legal prison for people that don't deserve that treatment". But no, we call it a detainment camp because, you know, being detained is just a minor inconvenience. It sounds nicer. You get detained when you forget to take your belt buckle off at the airport security for five minutes, for example.

When you're removed from your family and thrown into a shoddy prison in the middle of Texas under poor conditions, I guess technically that's being detained, sure, but it's also underselling it. Sort of like if I call Yosemite a nice place; I am not wrong, but I am underselling it because in reality it is awe-inspiring, breathtaking, and heaven on earth.

In short, it's lying by omission. Yes, they are being detained. But also more. When you don't mention the more part of it, that's a problem.

I mean, let's put all the different prisons and stuff on a scale. At 1, we have freedom. 3 is jail for a few months. 5 is a multiyear sentence in an actual prison. 10 is a concentration camp. Where on that scale do we place an institution where kids are separated from families, malnourished, mistreated, not given a trial, forced to fend and care for themselves? Is that closer to a prison? Or is it closer to a concentration camp? I think it's closer to a 10 than a 5.

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#23 Edited by ad1x2 (7667 posts) -

The vast majority of the people in this country think of concentration camps and the death camps as one in the same. AOC knows this, most of her supporters in the media know this, and most of the people in this thread know this. The fact that many of her supporters intentionally pivoted to try and make the distinction between the two different terms in order to “own” GOP members and Democrats like Chuck Todd that said she went too far comparing immigration detention to the Holocaust shows how dishonest people are.

The below tweet is satire, but it is pretty accurate in this situation:

I want an honest answer from everybody that is defending her and thinks that all of the facilities should be shut down: what should we do with all of the illegal aliens that cross the border and get caught, just let them go? How many is too many, or should we accept every migrant that shows up at our border no matter what?

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#24 Posted by Nuck81 (7713 posts) -

America has had Concentration camps before.

Almost 2,000 American citizens died in USA custody during WWII after they were forcibly removed from their homes and placed in concentration camps.

Some while they had family members in the military fighting for America.

Native Americans have been forced into concentration camps for about 200 years now. Oh wait, they're called "reservations"

Only Republicans are sick enough to think it's a good idea to bring this back and have the great idea to go ahead and rip children away from their parents as well.

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#25 Edited by ad1x2 (7667 posts) -

@Nuck81 said:

America has had Concentration camps before.

Almost 2,000 American citizens died in USA custody during WWII after they were forcibly removed from their homes and placed in concentration camps.

Some while they had family members in the military fighting for America.

Native Americans have been forced into concentration camps for about 200 years now. Oh wait, they're called "reservations"

Only Republicans are sick enough to think it's a good idea to bring this back and have the great idea to go ahead and rip children away from their parents as well.

What should we do with immigrants that cross into the country illegally? I’m not talking about people that present themselves at an authorized point of entry or overstay a visa, I’m talking about people caught by Border Patrol trying to sneak across the border in the middle of the night.

Also, what should we do with US citizens that have custody of children and are subsequently arrested? Should we continue to let CPS take them or should we send them to jail with their parent because we don’t want to separate the parents from their children? Or does that sympathy only apply to immigrants crossing into the country illegally?

And let’s not pretend that AOC’s use of the phrase “concentration camp” wasn’t done intentionally to get people to think of Hitler and Nazi Germany so more people will oppose them. It was a shame what America did during World War 2, but those camps were nothing compared to what the Nazis were doing and the Japanese people in the American internment camps were US citizens.

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#26 Posted by Jacanuk (18728 posts) -
@mrbojangles25 said:

Yeah the first thing that comes to mind is of course the Holocaust and those concentration camps. I don't think that is really the point here; I think, at least what I am trying to say, is that the term "concentration camp" can be used for other things.

Calling it a "detainment camp" is definitely making it political. That's like saying "I regret this happened" instead of saying "I am sorry I did that", or "Hey that's a good question, I am glad you asked that, and here is what I think" instead of "Damn I don't know the answer", or calling a civil war with thousands of deaths a "conflict", or referring to painful civilian deaths as "collateral damage".

if they weren't being political, it'd be called "questionably legal prison for people that don't deserve that treatment". But no, we call it a detainment camp because, you know, being detained is just a minor inconvenience. It sounds nicer. You get detained when you forget to take your belt buckle off at the airport security for five minutes, for example.

When you're removed from your family and thrown into a shoddy prison in the middle of Texas under poor conditions, I guess technically that's being detained, sure, but it's also underselling it. Sort of like if I call Yosemite a nice place; I am not wrong, but I am underselling it because in reality it is awe-inspiring, breathtaking, and heaven on earth.

In short, it's lying by omission. Yes, they are being detained. But also more. When you don't mention the more part of it, that's a problem.

I mean, let's put all the different prisons and stuff on a scale. At 1, we have freedom. 3 is jail for a few months. 5 is a multiyear sentence in an actual prison. 10 is a concentration camp. Where on that scale do we place an institution where kids are separated from families, malnourished, mistreated, not given a trial, forced to fend and care for themselves? Is that closer to a prison? Or is it closer to a concentration camp? I think it's closer to a 10 than a 5.

Well, I beg to differ here. Cortez´s and people in this thread whole point by using the word is to get you thinking about Germany and also equivalate that to Trump and Republicans because which sane normal minded person would support camps "permasleep showers for anyone"

Calling detainment camp is the correct term or would you also call prisons "concentration camps", also no one is forcing these people to take their kids with them and cross the border illegally, They are breaking the law, while it´s a civil infraction and not a felony, it´s still illegal and they are violating US law and should of course not receive any special treatment. because no matter how you look at this they are receiving the proper treatment and all the BS you hear from Democrats are all scare tactics and no different than the pictures that surfaced who was from under Obama, not Trump.

Also finally no one is forcing them to stay in these centres, all they have to say is "deport me" and they will be deported back to Mexico or wherever they come from. The main reason why they are being detained is because they want their due process. And if these centers was so bad why would they even stay?

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#27 Posted by Horgen (120931 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:

@texasgoldrush: I know you are just trolling but here is a link https://c8.alamy.com/comp/KWC4T9/cremation-oven-at-the-lublinmajdanek-concentration-camp-poland-it-KWC4T9.jpg

And please go read up on what a concentration camp is.

But /bringsoutthepopcorn because this thread lol

Always start at the end point huh? What about the definition of a concentration camp?

a place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard

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#28 Posted by jeezers (3185 posts) -

People are breaking into our country to be in concentration camps, this is exactly what happened in WW2, Jews were flooding into Germany to be apart of the concentration camps. NEVER AGAIN

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#29 Posted by jeezers (3185 posts) -

Yet thousands are still trucking across the dessert knowing there are concentration camps waiting for them... Something seems off

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#31 Posted by Drunk_PI (2815 posts) -
@Jacanuk said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

Yeah the first thing that comes to mind is of course the Holocaust and those concentration camps. I don't think that is really the point here; I think, at least what I am trying to say, is that the term "concentration camp" can be used for other things.

Calling it a "detainment camp" is definitely making it political. That's like saying "I regret this happened" instead of saying "I am sorry I did that", or "Hey that's a good question, I am glad you asked that, and here is what I think" instead of "Damn I don't know the answer", or calling a civil war with thousands of deaths a "conflict", or referring to painful civilian deaths as "collateral damage".

if they weren't being political, it'd be called "questionably legal prison for people that don't deserve that treatment". But no, we call it a detainment camp because, you know, being detained is just a minor inconvenience. It sounds nicer. You get detained when you forget to take your belt buckle off at the airport security for five minutes, for example.

When you're removed from your family and thrown into a shoddy prison in the middle of Texas under poor conditions, I guess technically that's being detained, sure, but it's also underselling it. Sort of like if I call Yosemite a nice place; I am not wrong, but I am underselling it because in reality it is awe-inspiring, breathtaking, and heaven on earth.

In short, it's lying by omission. Yes, they are being detained. But also more. When you don't mention the more part of it, that's a problem.

I mean, let's put all the different prisons and stuff on a scale. At 1, we have freedom. 3 is jail for a few months. 5 is a multiyear sentence in an actual prison. 10 is a concentration camp. Where on that scale do we place an institution where kids are separated from families, malnourished, mistreated, not given a trial, forced to fend and care for themselves? Is that closer to a prison? Or is it closer to a concentration camp? I think it's closer to a 10 than a 5.

Well, I beg to differ here. Cortez´s and people in this thread whole point by using the word is to get you thinking about Germany and also equivalate that to Trump and Republicans because which sane normal minded person would support camps "permasleep showers for anyone"

Calling detainment camp is the correct term or would you also call prisons "concentration camps", also no one is forcing these people to take their kids with them and cross the border illegally, They are breaking the law, while it´s a civil infraction and not a felony, it´s still illegal and they are violating US law and should of course not receive any special treatment. because no matter how you look at this they are receiving the proper treatment and all the BS you hear from Democrats are all scare tactics and no different than the pictures that surfaced who was from under Obama, not Trump.

Also finally no one is forcing them to stay in these centres, all they have to say is "deport me" and they will be deported back to Mexico or wherever they come from. The main reason why they are being detained is because they want their due process. And if these centers was so bad why would they even stay?

So it alright that these "detainees" aren't fed and taken care of properly? Is it alright to treat them the way they are?

It seems to me that you're excusing the horrific treatment because a non-citizen triggers you and hurts your feelings.

Avatar image for horgen
#32 Posted by Horgen (120931 posts) -
@mattbbpl said:

@horgen: I've been following this story for a couple days, and some of the claims levied are mind blowing. It's insane.

Found this today. Sure it's newsweek but still.

The Justice Department's Sarah Fabian argued on Tuesday of last week that creating "safe and sanitary" conditions for detained migrants did not mean that the Trump administration had to provide them with toothbrushes, towels and other basic products. The judges listening to her arguments appeared taken aback by the suggestion.

Also aren't they getting like 720 $ a day per child?

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#33 Posted by mattbbpl (17365 posts) -

@horgen said:
@mattbbpl said:

@horgen: I've been following this story for a couple days, and some of the claims levied are mind blowing. It's insane.

Found this today. Sure it's newsweek but still.

The Justice Department's Sarah Fabian argued on Tuesday of last week that creating "safe and sanitary" conditions for detained migrants did not mean that the Trump administration had to provide them with toothbrushes, towels and other basic products. The judges listening to her arguments appeared taken aback by the suggestion.

Also aren't they getting like 720 $ a day per child?

Forget Newsweek, watch the video of her testimony itself:

Loading Video...

Looks like the figure you're referring to is $775 per person per day.

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#34 Posted by Horgen (120931 posts) -

@mattbbpl: 775$ per day is enough to cover soap, towels and tootbrushes at least. Yeah they not get legal entry/stay to/in the US, but this is sick. Have a basic respect for other people. It's not dirt on your windshield.

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#35 Posted by mrbojangles25 (44169 posts) -

@mattbbpl said:
@horgen said:
@mattbbpl said:

@horgen: I've been following this story for a couple days, and some of the claims levied are mind blowing. It's insane.

Found this today. Sure it's newsweek but still.

The Justice Department's Sarah Fabian argued on Tuesday of last week that creating "safe and sanitary" conditions for detained migrants did not mean that the Trump administration had to provide them with toothbrushes, towels and other basic products. The judges listening to her arguments appeared taken aback by the suggestion.

Also aren't they getting like 720 $ a day per child?

Forget Newsweek, watch the video of her testimony itself:

***shameful video***

Looks like the figure you're referring to is $775 per person per day.

Wow. Just wow.

I wonder if that woman even believes in what she is arguing, because she was not convincing at all. She was asked a straight-up question "Do you think that is safe and sanitary?" and she just couldn't say yes or no, "Oh, well, uhhhhhh, the the agreement uhhh..."

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#36 Edited by Zaryia (9491 posts) -
@jeezers said:

People are breaking into our country to be in concentration camps, this is exactly what happened in WW2, Jews were flooding into Germany to be apart of the concentration camps. NEVER AGAIN

No one said these were WW2 Concentration Camps.

They just said they were concentration camps, which they are by definition.

You all seem highly confused and triggered at the English language. You should be triggered over the treatment of these people.

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#37 Edited by jeezers (3185 posts) -

@zaryia: NEVER AGAIN!!!

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#38 Posted by Serraph105 (33977 posts) -
Loading Video...


Remember when this happened back when Trump was still president elect?

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#39 Posted by SUD123456 (5322 posts) -

The video above is priceless. I admire those justices for remaining calm as I would have annihilated that lady representing the gov't for her drivel.

On AOC, I kinda like her and think she has potential; but I do not agree with her approach with this language. While she is correct in strict definitional terms, there are many other word choices she could have used which would have been sufficient to convey the point.

I appreciate that a certain portion of the public likes her choice of words and feel they may have been necessary to highlight the terrible conditions that exist. I also understand that the other side is going to cry foul for obvious reasons, since her words conjure one of the most horrible things in history.

This situation is like many where the fight is what is reasonable in the middle. So I disagree with her on this because the outcome is more of the discussion is actually about her and not about the issue. One could argue that in doing so the issue has heightened awareness, but IMO the bulk of the awareness is about polar opposite interpretation of her words which is drowning out the issue.

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#40 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166916 posts) -

@ad1x2 said:

The vast majority of the people in this country think of concentration camps and the death camps as one in the same.

The vast majority of Republicans maybe since many tend to be uneducated.

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#41 Posted by Serraph105 (33977 posts) -

@SUD123456 said:

The video above is priceless. I admire those justices for remaining calm as I would have annihilated that lady representing the gov't for her drivel.

On AOC, I kinda like her and think she has potential; but I do not agree with her approach with this language. While she is correct in strict definitional terms, there are many other word choices she could have used which would have been sufficient to convey the point.

I appreciate that a certain portion of the public likes her choice of words and feel they may have been necessary to highlight the terrible conditions that exist. I also understand that the other side is going to cry foul for obvious reasons, since her words conjure one of the most horrible things in history.

This situation is like many where the fight is what is reasonable in the middle. So I disagree with her on this because the outcome is more of the discussion is actually about her and not about the issue. One could argue that in doing so the issue has heightened awareness, but IMO the bulk of the awareness is about polar opposite interpretation of her words which is drowning out the issue.

They're also the ones who cried foul for years on end when people wanted them to use more accurate or politically correct language. AOC is spot on here.

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#42 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166916 posts) -

@SUD123456 said:

The video above is priceless. I admire those justices for remaining calm as I would have annihilated that lady representing the gov't for her drivel.

On AOC, I kinda like her and think she has potential; but I do not agree with her approach with this language. While she is correct in strict definitional terms, there are many other word choices she could have used which would have been sufficient to convey the point.

I appreciate that a certain portion of the public likes her choice of words and feel they may have been necessary to highlight the terrible conditions that exist. I also understand that the other side is going to cry foul for obvious reasons, since her words conjure one of the most horrible things in history.

This situation is like many where the fight is what is reasonable in the middle. So I disagree with her on this because the outcome is more of the discussion is actually about her and not about the issue. One could argue that in doing so the issue has heightened awareness, but IMO the bulk of the awareness is about polar opposite interpretation of her words which is drowning out the issue.

Or maybe we should use the appropriate language and wake Americans up. I'd rather that than going down the same path Germany did by ignoring the signs.

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#43 Posted by ad1x2 (7667 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic said:
@ad1x2 said:

The vast majority of the people in this country think of concentration camps and the death camps as one in the same.

The vast majority of Republicans maybe since many tend to be uneducated.

Stop. You know damn well that many people on both sides of the aisle think of Nazis and the Holocaust when the term “concentration camps” is used, and so does AOC (which is why she said it) and the vast majority of the people defending her. Trying to get technical with the definition to excuse her overreach is just shameful for all parties involved.

If you are against the immigrant detention centers then by all means, be against them. But base your opposition on the merits of the detention center itself instead of trying to take the cheap way out and compare the detention centers to what the two men below had to suffer through:

Nobody addressed my question from my previous post, so maybe you will indulge me. How should we deal with the issue of the thousands of illegal aliens that keep trying to get into the country? Since we are being told it is inhumane to detain them, should we just tell each and every one of them that they should have came the right way before letting them free with no guarantee they will ever attend their court hearing to determine if they can stay?

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#44 Edited by LJS9502_basic (166916 posts) -

@ad1x2 said:
@LJS9502_basic said:
@ad1x2 said:

The vast majority of the people in this country think of concentration camps and the death camps as one in the same.

The vast majority of Republicans maybe since many tend to be uneducated.

Stop. You know damn well that many people on both sides of the aisle think of Nazis and the Holocaust when the term “concentration camps” is used, and so does AOC (which is why she said it) and the vast majority of the people defending her. Trying to get technical with the definition to excuse her overreach is just shameful for all parties involved.

If you are against the immigrant detention centers then by all means, be against them. But base your opposition on the merits of the detention center itself instead of trying to take the cheap way out and compare the detention centers to what the two men below had to suffer through:

Nobody addressed my question from my previous post, so maybe you will indulge me. How should we deal with the issue of the thousands of illegal aliens that keep trying to get into the country? Since we are being told it is inhumane to detain them, should we just tell each and every one of them that they should have came the right way before letting them free with no guarantee they will ever attend their court hearing to determine if they can stay?

I don't know that and neither do you. You just don't like the language because your vote is doing it. You are aware some children have died aren't you?

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#45 Edited by Zaryia (9491 posts) -
@jeezers said:

@zaryia: NEVER AGAIN!!!

Completely agreed. Something like this should never happen again.

Or do you disagree because of their skin color?

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#46 Edited by Zaryia (9491 posts) -

@ad1x2

Yikes. You might not want to link Turning Points USA trash to make any point, ever. They are an extreme right and insanely biased propaganda tool which attracts racists and has had to fire several members for blatant racism. I'm not talking about using the dictionary "racism" like AOC, i'm talking about spamming the N word.

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/turning-point-usa

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#47 Posted by VFighter (5138 posts) -

Jesus the left is getting desperate, its both embarrassing and sad.

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#48 Posted by ad1x2 (7667 posts) -

@zaryia said:

@ad1x2

Yikes. You might not want to link Turning Points USA trash to make any point, ever. They are an extreme right and insanely biased propaganda tool which attracts racists and has had to fire several members for blatant racism. I'm not talking about using the dictionary "racism" like AOC, i'm talking about spamming the N word.

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/turning-point-usa

Good to know, I won’t use them anymore. As for the two men in the video, I can’t speak on whether or not they are being truthful if Turning Point is as bad as you say.

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#49 Posted by SUD123456 (5322 posts) -

@LJS9502_basic: @Serraph105:. I feel for both of you if you think that concentration camps in this example are analogous to Nazi Germany or that what is happening here is analogous to Nazi Germany in the years leading up to the war.

If you actually do feel that way, then I believe you are too far gone to entertain rational discussion.

What we have here is a lousy situation with no particularly good solutions and a gov't that is generally incompetent that can't seem to even figure out how to provide appropriate and basic living services to detainees.

Just like your gov't can't seem to provide adequate Veterans services, which is something that has plagued every administration forever.

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#50 Posted by ad1x2 (7667 posts) -
@LJS9502_basic said:
@ad1x2 said:

Stop. You know damn well that many people on both sides of the aisle think of Nazis and the Holocaust when the term “concentration camps” is used, and so does AOC (which is why she said it) and the vast majority of the people defending her. Trying to get technical with the definition to excuse her overreach is just shameful for all parties involved.

I don't know that and neither do you. You just don't like the language because your vote is doing it. You are aware some children have died aren't you?

You’re just being dishonest there because it helps demonize anybody that is against releasing immigrants. It’s obvious that AOC as well as some of her supporters are implying that if Trump isn’t voted out of office in 2020 we will be gassing immigrants before the end of his second term. Concentration camps were in play before the Nazis started doing their mass exterminations and people are acting like that is where we are going.

Stuff like that is why Trump won, people go straight to the Nazi insult to shut down opposition, which makes people in the middle think some people on the left are crazy.

As for those children that died, that is unfortunate and we owe them the best medical care (at least what we give our prisoners, if not better) while they are in detention. Blocking funding for the detention centers isn’t helping make that happen, but more importantly dragging a child thousands of miles in the heat with little to no nutrition isn’t helping them either. Is it the fault of the ER if a victim with multiple gunshot wounds dies while they are treating him?