Amazon cancels HQ2 in NYC, New York Governor Cuomo furious and blames several Democrats for pushing them away

New York Post

A while back, Amazon announced that they were going to build a second headquarters, which ended up being known as HQ2. After several considerations for the new location, they decided to split the new headquarters in half between Crystal City, Virginia and Long Island, New York.

While there were many that were happy about the possibility of up to 25,000 more jobs coming to the area, others criticized the deal due to tax incentives Amazon was offered to move there, as well as the fear that it may drive up rental prices as well as traffic in the immediate area.

Due to the complaints, as well as intervention from several politicians in the area, Amazon just announced that they have canceled the NYC portion of HQ2. The North Virginia portion has not been affected by the closure, but they haven’t announced where they plan to relocate the canceled New York portion.

Positive reactions to the closure included current Democratic Party superstar Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who tweeted the following message:

On the other hand, Governor Andrew Cuomo is furious with the turn of events, with the claim that Amazon’s decision will cost New York billions of dollars in potential tax revenue.

What do you think? Did New York dodge a bullet stopping Amazon from setting up in the area, or did the people that pushed them away only screw tens of thousands of people out of potential employment?

@ad1x2: "What do you think?"

These sweetheart deals are bs. I'm glad there's some pushback occurring.

@ad1x2: a BS deal. Increased traffic in NYC plus higher real estate price?? As if those issues weren't already ridiculously bad. This thing wasn't needed, especially not with givernment handouts. No typo there either...these corrupt commie bastards are all about the welfare

Good. Long Island was the wrong place for this. Hopefully the pick a new location that doesn't already have heavy traffic and sky high rent.

*State it would of payed for taxes.

*Rogers that amozon does not pay taxes.

Sets a nice precedent. It's good to not roll over and take whatever we are given on occasion by the richest person in the room lol.

Still, would have provided a lot of jobs.

But good for us for saying "no"

Yeah it would be one thing if this was Olean or Rochester, but Long Island was the WRONG place for that

25K jobs are no longer coming and yet this mental midget takes a victory lap?

@Solaryellow: NYC already has tons of jobs. If anything those jobs would have went to outsiders

Maybe Amazon itself does not pay tax, but do you think the 25.000 jobs which this HQ would have created and the 3rd party jobs would have?

It´s sometimes a good thing to look beyond just a small narrow thing.

Of course, it would, that´s why New York still have around 400.000 unemployed.

25 000 jobs? How large HQ are we talking?

@Jacanuk: do you even know how much these people are going to be paid?

Amozon barley payies their worker and some how you think that is going to add a significant tax boost?

Tons, huh? Looking at her district, someone should impress upon them all of the benefits of work. Still, the amount of $$$$$ which would be brought in as a result of a new HQ would be vast.

Reading the "rationale" by her and her supporters has me shocked.

Your point? is income from income tax and sales tax, not income from taxes?

Those jobs are now going elsewhere which means that that income tax, sales tax and also growth in surrounding areas that those workers will help create is now lost for NY.

@Jacanuk: "Maybe Amazon itself does not pay tax, but do you think the 25.000 jobs which this HQ would have created and the 3rd party jobs would have?"

It's shocking that this is now socially and politically acceptable.

No one said it was morally acceptable but legally there is nothing to come after at Amazon.

@Jacanuk: Sure we have. We just recently enacted tax reform that lowered corporate tax liability further. We continue to give state and local sweetheart deals to businesses for the privilege to have them make money in our vicinity. We are all about taxing employees and exempting employers.

Yeah, the push for that came after some tax paper revelations in the last decade. It's disgusting and allows for some lies to be spread as well.

I am going to side with Alexandria because she likes video games and n64. Will support her even if she runs for potus

Lowering a corporate tax that is still among the highest in the western world is not saying that tax avoidance is morally ok. It was about time that the crazy high corporate tax was lowered.

But as an economist, you must know that those deals with tax benefits to companies are done because the bigger picture is more important. Amazons estimate is 25.000 jobs created by them. That is jobs without counting the added jobs outside of Amazon and in relation to Amazon HQ2.

Which is why they are done, problem is that the deals are not done correctly and as you saw with some companies that are close to state lines move from one state to another and back again every few years.

@Jacanuk: your not getting what I'm saying.

These guy were going to be paid vwry little to work there. Not only do that mean they are going to pay a small amount of taxes based on their pay but they would also not beable to buy as much. This would help no one. They are not going to take the little ammount they get and buy thing from businesses. At the most it would go to their utilities first. Added this would increase traffic of the area amozon would be based in, raise the cost of living there and increase road repair cost.

This would not help the people of ny.

@Jacanuk: again. Do you know how much these people were going to be paid?

@Jacanuk: yeah, more welfare government subsidies to create jobs. I know of a way to create 100 million jobs by tomorrow. Wipe out scam intellectual property rights and other government protections for corporations

Best part of my plan is no handouts needed

You are right I am not following you.

Because I have no idea why a job albeit low paying, is somehow not a job that pays tax? If you are unemployed Is the wage you get from Amazon worse than no wage at all?

You do know that these people will be an added cost for the state when they are unemployed?.

@Jacanuk: think about it this way. Let's say you have a small pie. Then let's say we have to divide that small pie out to 1000 people. Then let's say those people who got small piece of pie then has to divide that up to other people. How many people are going to be full with a piece of that small pie they have?

The point is saying that this is good because other people are going to receive revenue from the people who work there ignores the fact that the people going to be paid so little but they're not going to be able to pay off all the people with it they're going to use it for utilities first. People's issue with Amazon if they pay their workers very little and pay little to no taxes.

Also building headboards that will drive the cost of everything up in the area due to the added traffic.

Unless Amazon is going to go ahead and pay every worker there a beneficial wage or even a survivable wage this is not going to help anyone living in the area. This is just going to be able to allow people to have faster drop off for products from Amazon in the area. The attraction to New York is the amount of people there.

You seem to miss that the option is no pie at all. You may have a pie to split with 1000 people but you have the pie. With no pie, you have nothing to divide with anyone. I do get that you are for Sanders min wage, but will never get why anyone can justify 0 gain opposed to some gain. America is and never will be a socialist state.

Then we could also discuss the psychological effects of having something to do as opposed to not having something to do IE drug abuse, homelessness etc....

Also remember we are talking about an HQ, not just another Amazon warehouse, so it will not just be 25.000 low paying jobs, it will be a mix. And then we have not even begun to talk about the added third party jobs. And market forces do still apply , so prices will not be going up if the people buying don´t have the money to spend.

So you can have all the issues with Amazon you want but a job is a job and those jobs are now lost to New York with all the added benefits.

New York City unemployment rate at 4.3%. This Amazon deal to give government handouts and subsidies to corporations... something like 20 years no taxes. It would have made the real estate situation even worse and traffic crippled to a snail's pace. It doesn't look like NYC gains anything out of this from scumbags amazon. Why don't they go beg for handouts from buffalo, there's plenty of people there who need the jerbs. NYC don't need it

i'm not familiar enough w/ the details of the deal to judge good or bad. i know that for a lot of these kinds of things, municipalities give corporations large tax gifts to lure them in so they're consuming resources, infrastructure, etc.. without paying to help maintain them. the economic benefit of more employment in the area has to be weighed against the potential costs of having them there produces.

as a ny state resident when i read amazon had chosen nyc as a location my reaction was "meh"

as a ny state resident when i read amazon had decided to cancel my reaction was "meh"

Maybe we best stop all of the sporting events, concerts, conferences, shows, etc.., if traffic is an issue. Talk about a lame justification.

@Solaryellow: you commies can't help but want to give out government handouts and subsidies don't you??

It's definitely not a lame excuse in a city like NYC where traffic is already awful and housing prices aren't getting any cheaper. This to me just looks like a sweet heart deal scum bag **** sucking politicians trying to give away more handouts. Like I said, if they want to create jobs, cut the government protections and regulations instead. The patents, intellectual property rights, contract laws etc etc.

@Jacanuk: or I can work some where that is offering a bigger cut of the pie. Unemployment is not the issue for now. It's getting a better pay job.

Amazon can't come because of traffic (that's pathetic BTW) yet the five boroughs have plenty of sporting teams/stadiums/games and plenty of events and tourists that bring traffic. Jobs are bad but I can't imagine how nor why.

Have you ever been to mid town when MSG had a big act playing or maybe a ball game? Ever been to the Nassau Coliseum when something big is going on?

Overhauling the tax system and leaving the legal capabilities to avoid taxes is indeed saying that it's morally OK. Doubly so when someone points out the avoidance and the response is, "well there's nothing illegal about it."

The bigger picture is that these dealsdon't result in more net jobs. They're just a drain on taxpayer funds. There is no justifying this system.

Well, sure if you have the option of going some where else but considering there are still around 400.000 unemployed New Yorkers, it´s clear that those jobs aren´t there for everyone, which a place like Amazon could help with, especially considering that those jobs don´t mind taking a 45-year-old unemployed bus driver whereas other places want a 22-year-old. It´s the same deal with McD jobs or other service jobs, why be at Walmart or Dennys or work as a waitress for scraps and tips. Some people don´t have other options or coalminers which is why the arrogance shown towards with them with the whole #learncoding meme is just absurd. at least with an Amazon HQ, the jobs are real and obtainable.

One of the largest companies in the world with the wealthiest dude on the planet leading it needs a handout.

Either they need these corporate HQs or they don't. Either they need to hire these people or they don't.

Why any of you geniuses believe in this type of corporate welfare is beyond me. This is why Toronto bid on this with no corporate welfare. This is why all of the bidding cities should also have refused to provide nonsensical subsidies.

I laugh when some Americans talk about free markets. You don't know what a free market is ffs. Good old Toronto part of the socialist paradise in Canada has to show you the way. LMAO.

Not really saying that but let´s agree to disagree, but let´s be honest here when America has one of the highest corporate tax in the free western world it´s a clear sign that something is wrong. So lowering it to at least semi-normal levels is the only right thing to do.

Also, the link you came with is not taking the whole picture into account, they are working out from a notion that those jobs would come anyway if they just create the right environments for "new companies" and that the tax incentives are pointless which they aren't and when you can´t legislate your way out of it on a federal level. California can do what they want while Ohio can do theirs. So what is your answer? wave a magic wand and hope that states stop ?

Because if you have a state government or city government with a huge unemployment problem and you can see that Amazon or Intel or a third company with an incentive will put jobs in your area, and not only provide jobs but provide tax income but also easy up on the burden of those unemployment queues, you can be sure as a amen in church that the politicians will do it.

So yes there is indeed a lot that can justify the system (not saying the system is perfect though), you are just looking at the narrow view instead of looking at the bigger picture.

America having 'one of the highest corporate tax rates in the western world' is a red herring and nothing more than a corporate shill soundbite.

That refrain is stated over and over again by special interests referencing the highest posted statutory tax rates by country. While true, it is also completely misleading for 3 primary reasons:

1. The highest posted statutory rates are not the same thing as the net effective rates that are actually paid by companies and the difference between these two concepts are night and day. Each country has different deductions, loopholes, tax breaks, etc. What matters is the actual tax rate you have to pay. On this point the US effective tax rate is effectively the same to marginally higher depending on the type of business compared to other western countries.

2. Peer group matters. Relative intercountry comparison should reflect peer group levels of development in societal infrastructure and the like. Afterall, that is in part what taxes are supposed to pay for.

3. The whole concept of this debate only applies to the portion of the economy that is primarily export based and/or from the perspective of the choices of multinationals since they have the ability to invest in different countries. Btw, multinationals, especially large multinationals, have the greatest opportunities to lower their effective tax rate by manipulating the rules and loopholes.

In short, the US should focus on closing loopholes, simplifying the tax structure, and rationalizing other deductions and what not BEFORE even considering any further corporate tax rate changes. At that point you can then have a rational discussion on somewhere between a wee small change vs a modest change.

This is going to become an even bigger problem since the tax burden has already dramatically shifted away from corporate taxes and we will start to see AI leading to structural unemployment issues in the white collar world over the next few decades. If the world tax schemes don't get a handle on multinational and related issues this is going to have very big ramifications for countries and workers.

@Jacanuk: you clearly don't get way amozon wants to be in new York. They couls take it any where else bit they would lose money. New York can be argued to be america's biggest city. And a company that ia based around shipping their item to people would ofcourse want to have a center there. But they clearly arw not willong to pay more to be there.

Curious if big tech CEO's will continue to be on the left with the way the new left feels about the super rich.

Amazon: but the jobs...

its like new yorkers should be happy about it and celebrating with joy. Jeff Bezos secretly thinking to himself "Ha! I own New York now bitches."

Here is Governor Cuomo’s official statement on the pullout:

From what I have been reading, the jobs were expected to pay well with a number of them paying up to $150,000 a year.

While I know that some people may say that it was another win for the good guys, that doesn’t seem to be the picture among a lot of the people in the area that could have used one of those jobs. Most of my family lives in NYC and I’m sure that some of them who had the skills Amazon was looking for (Amazon hires more than just IT and truck drivers) would have loved one of those jobs.

I wish more states would fight against these obscene tax breaks for companies like this. They usually never end of being worth the loss of revenue and it places a competitive advantage for these companies over their competitors. Look what Foxxcon is currently doing to Wisconsin, it's a waste of time and money.

@HoolaHoopMan: This should be a bipartisan no-brainer. For Democrats because it siphons public funds to the wealthy. For Republicans because it warps markets, strengthens entrenched interests over new competitors, and causes an increased tax burden on others.

But we all know that Republicans don't actually believe their rhetoric. They just work to serve the wealthy in whatever capacity they can get away with.

@ad1x2: the poor people in the area would have been hired as janitors and low level workers. Most of the 150k jobs would have been out of state. It would have crippled the region and made it economically too expensive to love in. The traffic would have tripled.

Sure, that is why global companies like Facebook, Apple and Google all keep over 90% of their revenue in off-shore tax heavens. instead of bringing them home to roost.

But whatever you say.

Of course they don't. If they cared about a free market solution they would give ALL companies the same treatment and not some over others.

That's exactly my point. That is the type of loophole that needs to be fixed first for multinationals as I said, otherwise it is a race to the bottom.

And this is also related point 2 is about as there will always be another jurisdiction that will lower its tax rate and it will be in a position to do so because the country is not an advanced peer and does not require the same proportionate tax base. The insanity of Ireland a decade back cannot be allowed to continue.

But to understand the concepts you have to put away your blinders. If this doesn't get fixed through closing national loopholes and some world rules for multinationals, then lowering national corporate tax rates will simply worsen the situation for everyone. And the losers will be the most advanced economies.

So your example is exactly what I have said.

So sick of hearing about this Cortez woman. She’s not smart and her and her even dumber followerers are hell bent on the destruction of America. They want to turn America into a police state complete with bread lines and no entrepreneurial motivation.