100% Voting Trump 100% America First

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SargentD

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#1  Edited By SargentD
Member since 2020 • 4335 Posts

Hey friends.

I'm all in for America First Policies and I'm all for bringing Trump back in 2024. He was the only person Ive ever voted for in a presidential election. both in 2016 (first time voting) and again in 2020.

I know a lot of you guys don't like Trump or America First. I've seen a lot of backlash here towards Trump, Trump supporters, and the America First agenda.

I love my country (the people) and believe this is the best way forward.

I made this thread as an opportunity for others to ask me any questions on why this is my stance. Maybe people outside the US or people on the left that don't understand people like myself. Thought it could spark some good political discussion.

So yeah. Ask me anything.

*genuine questions please, I know its tempting to troll this type of discussion. Wont be upset if that's what you want to do though, just don't expect a genuine response*

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MacaroniMoses

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#2 MacaroniMoses
Member since 2003 • 680 Posts

Cool. You hate America. We get it...

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SargentD

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#3 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 4335 Posts

@MacaroniMoses: lol

Got a question? Or is that it?

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shellcase86

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#4 shellcase86
Member since 2012 • 6266 Posts

Two questions;

1. What are some good things you have seen from the other party? for example, what is a policy, viewpoint, or practice you feel your party/person should adopt?

2. What are some bad things you see from the party/person you support? For example, what is something you would change?

I'm always interested in these kind of viewpoints because it gives you great insight into a person's headspace.

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Serraph105

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#5  Edited By Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 35733 Posts

@sargentd: I mean, I think we all kind of knew this about you..

I love my country (the people) and believe this is the best way forward.

My question is related to this statement. Trump openly attacks minority groups in this country as a way to gain further support for himself from his base all the time. He's attacked immigrants, the queer community, african americans, etc while openly supporting groups like the Proud Boys, which are quite accurately described as white supremacists. Doing so has been shown to sow division in this country. So, do you really love the people in this country, or do you love certain segments of it. Furthermore, why do you think his divisive politics is "the best way forward?"

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Eoten

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#6 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 8374 Posts

@Serraph105 said:

@sargentd: I mean, I think we all kind of knew this about you..

I love my country (the people) and believe this is the best way forward.

My question is related to this statement. Trump openly attacks minority groups in this country as a way to gain further support for himself from his base all the time. He's attacked immigrants, the queer community, african americans, etc while openly supporting groups like the Proud Boys, which are quite accurately described as white supremacists. Doing so has been shown to sow division in this country. So, do you really love the people in this country, or do you love certain segments of it. Furthermore, why do you think his divisive politics is "the best way forward?"

Aah, going with that theory again? I bet you think he actually called Mexicans murders and rapists too.

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Serraph105

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#7 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 35733 Posts

@eoten said:
@Serraph105 said:

@sargentd: I mean, I think we all kind of knew this about you..

I love my country (the people) and believe this is the best way forward.

My question is related to this statement. Trump openly attacks minority groups in this country as a way to gain further support for himself from his base all the time. He's attacked immigrants, the queer community, african americans, etc while openly supporting groups like the Proud Boys, which are quite accurately described as white supremacists. Doing so has been shown to sow division in this country. So, do you really love the people in this country, or do you love certain segments of it. Furthermore, why do you think his divisive politics is "the best way forward?"

Aah, going with that theory again? I bet you think he actually called Mexicans murders and rapists too.

Didn't ask you man, it's not your ama. That said, he actively called Mexican immigrants murders and rapists, putting in a little addendum to say, "not all of them" at the end doesn't change the fact that he directed his divisive politics towards mexican immigrants in the moment.

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KathaarianCode

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#8 KathaarianCode
Member since 2022 • 581 Posts

@Serraph105: Yeah true, but just because he said it, it doesn't mean he said it. You got to think outside the box man.

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SargentD

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#9 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 4335 Posts

@shellcase86 said:

Two questions;

1. What are some good things you have seen from the other party? for example, what is a policy, viewpoint, or practice you feel your party/person should adopt?

2. What are some bad things you see from the party/person you support? For example, what is something you would change?

I'm always interested in these kind of viewpoints because it gives you great insight into a person's headspace.

good questions

1. One quick thing I want to mention. I'm not a republican, don't care for the GOP. Find them to be pretty ineffective, never doing much, but slightly slowing down democrats. There are a handful of republicans and libertarians and even a few democrats i like though. But I am pro-Trump. by other party I'm assuming you are talking about the democrats.

A policy i think Trump should take on that has been talked about by democrats is student loan forgiveness. Not a wipe of their debt but focusing on lessening the interest/fees tacked onto young peoples debt can make a big impact. This is the right move to help young people not fall too far into debt. Banks and college institutions have been predatory and imo this is a deathgrip that will slow us down economically as a whole going forward, less young people that can afford housing or can start a family is not good. Democrats talk about it a lot, but haven't done much of anything. If Trump can get back in and put forth some sort of meaningful policy to slow down the student debt crisis. It will be a big win for him and the country.

2. Trump I think did a bad job picking cabinet members when he first got in. First year it was a revolving door. I do think this was due to his inexperience to politics. I hope lessons were learned. He needs to pick his administration more tactfully if he gets a 2nd chance in. I think he will.

Bump stock ban is another thing he missed the mark. After the las vegas shooting, this was what I would call (throwing a bone) he shouldn't have done it. It does nothing for the situation. It was virtue signaling. This is something i would expect from the democrats. Was disappointing to see Trump do that. He also mentioned red flag laws being an option. Also was not a fan of that. He later walked back those comments. He himself said he regretted it, it hurt his standing with many of his pro 2A supporters. So no more of that.

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Eoten

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#10 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 8374 Posts

@Serraph105 said:
@eoten said:
@Serraph105 said:

@sargentd: I mean, I think we all kind of knew this about you..

I love my country (the people) and believe this is the best way forward.

My question is related to this statement. Trump openly attacks minority groups in this country as a way to gain further support for himself from his base all the time. He's attacked immigrants, the queer community, african americans, etc while openly supporting groups like the Proud Boys, which are quite accurately described as white supremacists. Doing so has been shown to sow division in this country. So, do you really love the people in this country, or do you love certain segments of it. Furthermore, why do you think his divisive politics is "the best way forward?"

Aah, going with that theory again? I bet you think he actually called Mexicans murders and rapists too.

Didn't ask you man, it's not your ama. That said, he actively called Mexican immigrants murders and rapists, putting in a little addendum to say, "not all of them" at the end doesn't change the fact that he directed his divisive politics towards mexican immigrants in the moment.

Do you have a video of that? I mean, outside of the one NBC edited multiple segments together to make.

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mrbojangles25

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#11  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 54241 Posts

OK, I'll bite @sargentd:

  1. Why do you think an "America First" stance is so important, when historically it has been the theme of some of the most regressive, cowardly, and bigoted politicians to grace America?
    • Woodrow Wilson claimed to put "America First" to keep us out of WWI, a conflict you could argue we needed to be in.
    • The America First Committee wanted to keep us out of WWII; again, a conflict we needed to be involved in. I think it worked out pretty well for the US.
    • Historically, America First politicians have been anti-Semitic, nationalist, and pro-fascist.
  2. The world is a small, intertwined place that requires a lot of cooperation amongst various nations; do you worry that retreating from the world stage and focusing on an "America First" agenda will have a negative impact on America's influence (political, cultural, and economic) in the world?
    • For example, we pulled out of the Iran deal, and now Iran is closer to having a nuclear weapon than ever before.
    • As America's involvement and influence decreases, a void is left to be filled; do you worry that other major powers (specifically Russia, China, and India) will fill that void?
  3. I have heard many people claim they vote for Trump because he is not a politician; why do you think this is a good thing?
  4. Finally, and perhaps most importantly: is your decision motivated more by policy and fact, or emotion and feeling? I feel a lot of Trump supporters are emotional voters and they don't really have objective motivations behind supporting him, but it would be nice to hear of some, if they exist.
    • What specific policies do you support, if any?
    • What specific policies that Trump wants to put forth do you not support, if any? What would you like to see change in his stance?

Thank you in advance. My best friend is a Republican voter-for-life and we've discussed it a little bit, but not too much because I don't think he likes Trump very much, he is just loyal to the party.

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Serraph105

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#12 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 35733 Posts

@eoten said:
@Serraph105 said:
@eoten said:
@Serraph105 said:

@sargentd: I mean, I think we all kind of knew this about you..

I love my country (the people) and believe this is the best way forward.

My question is related to this statement. Trump openly attacks minority groups in this country as a way to gain further support for himself from his base all the time. He's attacked immigrants, the queer community, african americans, etc while openly supporting groups like the Proud Boys, which are quite accurately described as white supremacists. Doing so has been shown to sow division in this country. So, do you really love the people in this country, or do you love certain segments of it. Furthermore, why do you think his divisive politics is "the best way forward?"

Aah, going with that theory again? I bet you think he actually called Mexicans murders and rapists too.

Didn't ask you man, it's not your ama. That said, he actively called Mexican immigrants murders and rapists, putting in a little addendum to say, "not all of them" at the end doesn't change the fact that he directed his divisive politics towards mexican immigrants in the moment.

Do you have a video of that? I mean, outside of the one NBC edited multiple segments together to make.

We've all seen the video man, moving on.

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Eoten

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#13 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 8374 Posts

@Serraph105 said:
@eoten said:
@Serraph105 said:
@eoten said:
@Serraph105 said:

@sargentd: I mean, I think we all kind of knew this about you..

I love my country (the people) and believe this is the best way forward.

My question is related to this statement. Trump openly attacks minority groups in this country as a way to gain further support for himself from his base all the time. He's attacked immigrants, the queer community, african americans, etc while openly supporting groups like the Proud Boys, which are quite accurately described as white supremacists. Doing so has been shown to sow division in this country. So, do you really love the people in this country, or do you love certain segments of it. Furthermore, why do you think his divisive politics is "the best way forward?"

Aah, going with that theory again? I bet you think he actually called Mexicans murders and rapists too.

Didn't ask you man, it's not your ama. That said, he actively called Mexican immigrants murders and rapists, putting in a little addendum to say, "not all of them" at the end doesn't change the fact that he directed his divisive politics towards mexican immigrants in the moment.

Do you have a video of that? I mean, outside of the one NBC edited multiple segments together to make.

We've all seen the video man, moving on.

Yes, the NBC edited video that I pointed out. I know you've seen it.

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Serraph105

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#14  Edited By Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 35733 Posts

@eoten said:
@Serraph105 said:
@eoten said:
@Serraph105 said:
@eoten said:

Aah, going with that theory again? I bet you think he actually called Mexicans murders and rapists too.

Didn't ask you man, it's not your ama. That said, he actively called Mexican immigrants murders and rapists, putting in a little addendum to say, "not all of them" at the end doesn't change the fact that he directed his divisive politics towards mexican immigrants in the moment.

Do you have a video of that? I mean, outside of the one NBC edited multiple segments together to make.

We've all seen the video man, moving on.

Yes, the NBC edited video that I pointed out. I know you've seen it.

Unless there's an unedited video clip where he follows up his statement with, "And none of the things I just said are true, I'm just f***ing around," as opposed to, "And some, I assume, are good people," then you should move on from this conversation as well. This shit is why nobody believes you when you say you are not a Trump supporter.

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Maroxad

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#15 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 20426 Posts

After WW1, WW2, The Cold War, and International conflicts driving up the price of fuel, China Soft Power strategy making the US look like a bunch of fools during the Trump Administration?

What makes the Isolationism still seem like a good idea?

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SargentD

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#16  Edited By SargentD
Member since 2020 • 4335 Posts
@Serraph105 said:

@sargentd: I mean, I think we all kind of knew this about you..

I love my country (the people) and believe this is the best way forward.

My question is related to this statement. Trump openly attacks minority groups in this country as a way to gain further support for himself from his base all the time. He's attacked immigrants, the queer community, african americans, etc while openly supporting groups like the Proud Boys, which are quite accurately described as white supremacists. Doing so has been shown to sow division in this country. So, do you really love the people in this country, or do you love certain segments of it. Furthermore, why do you think his divisive politics is "the best way forward?"

Trump openly attacks minority groups in this country as a way to gain further support for himself from his base all the time.

Nah, I don't believe that at all. He gets brash with people but its not about anyone being a minority.

He's attacked immigrants, the queer community, african americans, etc

No, hes criticized illegal aliens. Hence build the wall. Trump is pro immigrant as long as they come legally and so am I.

Fun fact Trump was cool with gay marriage before Hillary or Biden. Trump doesn't care about your sexual orientation. Neither do I.

Trump specifically put forth policies to help African Americans directly.

Economic opportunity zones, First Step Act (Trump got criminal Justice reform passed before Obama ( embarrassing for Obama) Trump also extended funding to historical black colleges. This was a big deal because they normally would have to keep coming back to congress to ask for funding every year.

The proud boys is not a white supremacist group. I don't agree with their actions. (just like i don't agree with ANTIFA and thier actions)

But their leader enrique tarrio, isnt even white...I would consider the proud boys far-right though, If anything for engaging in fights with Antifa (far left)

So, do you really love the people in this country, or do you love certain segments of it.

Yeah I love America and I want what's best for Americans. If you are an American, I believe you should want the interests of America to be put first by your representatives, over special interests or foreign interests. Your race, sexual orientation, gender, none of it matters. If America is successful, that will improve all of Americans lives not any specific demographic.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#17  Edited By GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 19937 Posts

Sorry, I can't support someone who doesn't believe in the fundamentals of democracy.

Of course everyone is free to choose who they want but that is my position.

I think selling out your country to get what you want at any cost is shortsighted. IMO there would be better candidates for the country to carry out the exact same goals.

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SargentD

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#18 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 4335 Posts

@Maroxad said:

After WW1, WW2, The Cold War, and International conflicts driving up the price of fuel, China Soft Power strategy making the US look like a bunch of fools during the Trump Administration?

What makes the Isolationism still seem like a good idea?

I don't see it as Isolationism. We can still trade, we can still have alliances. I don't see it as cutting us off from the world. I see it as making ourselves as self reliant as possible, to make us a more strong/stable nation. This is good not only for Americans, but for our allies as well.

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SargentD

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#19 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 4335 Posts

@mrbojangles25: these are good questions. I'm stepping out but I will answer later.

Ps: Me and your friend are opposites. I actually like Trump but don't care for the GOP

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Serraph105

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#20 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 35733 Posts

@sargentd said:
@Serraph105 said:

@sargentd: I mean, I think we all kind of knew this about you..

I love my country (the people) and believe this is the best way forward.

My question is related to this statement. Trump openly attacks minority groups in this country as a way to gain further support for himself from his base all the time. He's attacked immigrants, the queer community, african americans, etc while openly supporting groups like the Proud Boys, which are quite accurately described as white supremacists. Doing so has been shown to sow division in this country. So, do you really love the people in this country, or do you love certain segments of it. Furthermore, why do you think his divisive politics is "the best way forward?"

Trump openly attacks minority groups in this country as a way to gain further support for himself from his base all the time.

Nah, I don't believe that at all. He gets brash with people but its not about anyone being a minority.

He's attacked immigrants, the queer community, african americans, etc

No, hes criticized illegal aliens. Hence build the wall. Trump is pro immigrant as long as they come legally and so am I.

Fun fact Trump was cool with gay marriage before Hillary or Biden. Trump doesn't care about your sexual orientation. Neither do I.

Trump specifically put forth policies to help African Americans directly.

Economic opportunity zones, First Step Act (Trump got criminal Justice reform passed before Obama ( embarrassing for Obama) Trump also extended funding to historical black colleges. This was a big deal because they normally would have to keep coming back to congress to ask for funding every year.

The proud boys is not a white supremacist group. I don't agree with their actions. (just like i don't agree with ANTIFA and thier actions)

But their leader enrique tarrio, isnt even white...I would consider the proud boys far-right though, If anything for engaging in fights with Antifa (far left)

So, do you really love the people in this country, or do you love certain segments of it.

Yeah I love America and I want what's best for Americans. If you are an American, I believe you should want the interests of America to be put first by your representatives, over special interests or foreign interests. Your race, sexual orientation, gender, none of it matters. If America is successful, that will improve all of Americans lives not any specific demographic.

So you really don't view Trump as deploying divisive politics for personal gain, at all? Honestly? Because I don't see how you could view it as anything else.

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Maroxad

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#21 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 20426 Posts

@sargentd said:
@Maroxad said:

After WW1, WW2, The Cold War, and International conflicts driving up the price of fuel, China Soft Power strategy making the US look like a bunch of fools during the Trump Administration?

What makes the Isolationism still seem like a good idea?

I don't see it as Isolationism. We can still trade, we can still have alliances. I don't see it as cutting us off from the world. I see it as making ourselves as self reliant as possible, to make us a more strong/stable nation. This is good not only for Americans, but for our allies as well.

My views would differ from yours, but I assume your reasoning on self sufficiency over specialization (which is what i prefer) has to do with geopolitical instability?

I would argue that specialization and trade leads to greater prosperity. Why deal with subpar results when you can maximize gains within a specialized field?

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warmblur

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#22 warmblur
Member since 2017 • 9262 Posts

Put America first by putting Trump in jail.

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Serraph105

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#23 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 35733 Posts

@warmblur said:

Put America first by putting Trump in jail.

I mean.......the man did literally incited people to try to overturn democracy. Jail makes sense to me.

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Maroxad

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#24  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 20426 Posts

I will be interested to see when TC returns.

I want to hear his take on specialization vs self reliance, or more specically, why he values self reliance so much.

@Serraph105 said:
@warmblur said:

Put America first by putting Trump in jail.

I mean.......the man did literally incited people to try to overturn democracy. Jail makes sense to me.

And sadly so many of his followers are looking the other way.

As long as he can use rhetoric of America first and other similar trash, he can continue to betray what I believe would be american ideals and values.

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Nirgal

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#25  Edited By Nirgal
Member since 2019 • 877 Posts

My only question would be:

1. Have you not find it interesting that trump already claimed fraud when lost against cruz in the primaries? That all those recounts and forensic audits ended in nothing? That the attack on capitol happened just as they were acknowledging the certification of the election? That judges appointmented by trump, the vice-president and the attorney general dismissed his claims of fraud as baseless?

Overall my questions is this, has it not cross your mind that you are supporting the very person trying to do away with democracy?

I am mean it sounds awful, and nobody wants to be that person, but look at all of the evidence. It seems fucked up to say the least.

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KathaarianCode

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#26 KathaarianCode
Member since 2022 • 581 Posts

@mrbojangles25: btw, there's really not even a void to be filled anymore I think, or little is left. The Sino-Russian aliance is a defacto fascist superpower on the rise. India is already leaning towards them and so are many of the biggest Arab oil/gas producers. The direct result of Trump's America First was America having its position in the world stage at the lowest point I can remember and a super vulnerable economy as a result. Made even worse by Trump seeing the European Union as a bad thing, which both hurts Europe and the US as right now no one is willing to take any medium to long term commitments with the US because no one knows if the guy who shared much of the values and anti EU views with Putin is coming back.

I guess the collective memory tends to fade but it's crazy that everything that made America one of the greatest powers in human history is now under attack by Americans. Although it's nothing new, the same kind of people were neutral or sympathetic towards Hitler too, this far right leaning "neutrality" is part of the political fabric of the US.

North Korea, Israel, Russia, Iran, all of them made a bigger mess by Trump. Plus all the historical allies highly skeptical due to America's compromise with anything being worth 0 after Trump. It's crazy really.

I can get someone voting for him in 2016. But after the terrible management of COVID, him trying to turn the US into an authoritarian regime by attacking the democratic process and institutions, plus the complete mess everything he touched on the global stage is right now, it's mind-blowing... Personally cults are a weird thing.

I do hope republicans go for competence and not populism in the coming presedential elections.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#27 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 19937 Posts

@kathaariancode: Ukraine is showing why cooperation and democracies sticking together is valuable

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mrbojangles25

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#28 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 54241 Posts

@kathaariancode: 2000-2020 was a bad time for America, internationally speaking.

Bush took us to two wars, both of which were completely unjustified. We had all this great support after 9/11 and we just flushed it down the toilet.

Obama brought back a lot of good will, but I don't think it was enough. Plus his drone program was pretty ruthless, and casualties continued to rise.

Then Trump undid everything with his "America First" agenda (i.e. Iran being closer to having a nuke than ever before) and ingratiating himself with authoritarians.

@Maroxad said:

I will be interested to see when TC returns.

I want to hear his take on specialization vs self reliance, or more specically, why he values self reliance so much.

Yes I am also curious. I understand the fears of a "one world order" but the fact is we are at a point in human history where everyone will do better if we all do better; there is no benefit to going it alone.

The US went from an isolationist country to the most powerful nation in the world more or less in the span of a few decades in the early 1900's to the 1950's; what to stop any other country (especially one not aligned with us) from doing the same should we exit the world stage?

I'd rather cooperate than retreat.

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LJS9502_basic

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#29 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 176893 Posts

@Maroxad said:

I will be interested to see when TC returns.

I want to hear his take on specialization vs self reliance, or more specically, why he values self reliance so much.

@Serraph105 said:
@warmblur said:

Put America first by putting Trump in jail.

I mean.......the man did literally incited people to try to overturn democracy. Jail makes sense to me.

And sadly so many of his followers are looking the other way.

As long as he can use rhetoric of America first and other similar trash, he can continue to betray what I believe would be american ideals and values.

Oh not what you believe. He is betraying American ideals and values. At this stage it's bizarre anyone supports him but I guess some people don't believe in voting for one's own leaders.

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SUD123456

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#30 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 6532 Posts

America First is an update on Dukakis' Made in America in 1988.

I laughed then. I laugh now.

BTW wasn't Trump's most important economic plank in his first election: infrastructure modernization? How did that turn out? Fantasy like everything he says.

America First is just a dog whistle for incredibly naive people.

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#31 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 48915 Posts

Are we not a long ways out from even thinking about the 2024 election?

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#32  Edited By Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 35733 Posts
@SUD123456 said:

America First is an update on Dukakis' Made in America in 1988.

I laughed then. I laugh now.

BTW wasn't Trump's most important economic plank in his first election: infrastructure modernization? How did that turn out? Fantasy like everything he says.

America First is just a dog whistle for incredibly naive people.

I mean, Biden did pass a bipartisan multi-billion dollar infrastructure plan. So that's a promise kept, right?

Edit. Oh, you said Trump. Yeah, he was far too unfocused and undisciplined to get that accomplished. Something even Biden was able to do, as previously mentioned.

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SargentD

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#33  Edited By SargentD
Member since 2020 • 4335 Posts
@Maroxad said:
@sargentd said:
@Maroxad said:

After WW1, WW2, The Cold War, and International conflicts driving up the price of fuel, China Soft Power strategy making the US look like a bunch of fools during the Trump Administration?

What makes the Isolationism still seem like a good idea?

I don't see it as Isolationism. We can still trade, we can still have alliances. I don't see it as cutting us off from the world. I see it as making ourselves as self reliant as possible, to make us a more strong/stable nation. This is good not only for Americans, but for our allies as well.

My views would differ from yours, but I assume your reasoning on self sufficiency over specialization (which is what i prefer) has to do with geopolitical instability?

I would argue that specialization and trade leads to greater prosperity. Why deal with subpar results when you can maximize gains within a specialized field?

Self Sufficiency and trade would be even better.

We should be working towards self reliance always.

Especially with critical resources. Look at what happening with the EU in regards to buying Russians oil right now.

what a pickle... the madman Putin is invading into other countries and the EU is actively making Russia more wealthy at the same time.

In a way... the EU is funding Russia's war right now and they don't really have any other options without destroying their economies because they rely so much on Russian fuel.

America has no room to talk either, I believe we are now buying more Russian oil now as well to levitate costs.

And Biden now has to go beg Saudi Arabia and Venezuela to help out. We should be working towards being in a state where this isn't happening, It is not healthy to rely on critical resources/services of Countries that don't like you.

America does it with China over the last few decades we rely on them for so much. Too much .

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/coronavirus-china-us-drugs-trump-rubio-china-virus-xinhua-hell-epidemic-a9400811.html

Like this kind of stuff^^

Republican senator Marco Rubio highlighted apparent threats from Beijing to cut off supplies of medicine to the US, amid anger by some to blame China for not acting quickly enough.

Speaking to Fox News, he pointed to an article in Xinhua, the state-run media agency, which noted Mr Trump had praised the efforts of Chinese president Xi Jinping to confront the illness.

Coronavirus: Can herd immunity help the UK battle the outbreak?

But the article said initially the US’s reaction to China, including a travel ban, was “very unkind”.

“If China retaliates against the United States at this time, in addition to announcing a travel ban on the United States, it will also announce strategic control over medical products and ban exports to the United States. Then the United States will be caught in the ocean of new coronaviruses,” the article said.

“Also according to the US CDC officials, most of the drugs in the United States are imported…If China banned exports, the United States will fall into the hell of a new coronavirus pneumonia epidemic.”

It added: “We should say righteously that the US owes China an apology, the world owes China a “thank you”.”

I would like America to not be dependent on China for Medicine.

I would like the EU to not be dependent on Russia for energy.

Loading Video...

We have so much Natural Resources here in America. We should be capitalizing on it.

"The USA should be enhancing domestic energy security but also enhancing global energy security as well."

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#34 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 4335 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:

OK, I'll bite @sargentd:

  1. Why do you think an "America First" stance is so important, when historically it has been the theme of some of the most regressive, cowardly, and bigoted politicians to grace America?
    • Woodrow Wilson claimed to put "America First" to keep us out of WWI, a conflict you could argue we needed to be in.
    • The America First Committee wanted to keep us out of WWII; again, a conflict we needed to be involved in. I think it worked out pretty well for the US.
    • Historically, America First politicians have been anti-Semitic, nationalist, and pro-fascist.
  2. The world is a small, intertwined place that requires a lot of cooperation amongst various nations; do you worry that retreating from the world stage and focusing on an "America First" agenda will have a negative impact on America's influence (political, cultural, and economic) in the world?
    • For example, we pulled out of the Iran deal, and now Iran is closer to having a nuclear weapon than ever before.
    • As America's involvement and influence decreases, a void is left to be filled; do you worry that other major powers (specifically Russia, China, and India) will fill that void?
  3. I have heard many people claim they vote for Trump because he is not a politician; why do you think this is a good thing?
  4. Finally, and perhaps most importantly: is your decision motivated more by policy and fact, or emotion and feeling? I feel a lot of Trump supporters are emotional voters and they don't really have objective motivations behind supporting him, but it would be nice to hear of some, if they exist.
    • What specific policies do you support, if any?
    • What specific policies that Trump wants to put forth do you not support, if any? What would you like to see change in his stance?

Thank you in advance. My best friend is a Republican voter-for-life and we've discussed it a little bit, but not too much because I don't think he likes Trump very much, he is just loyal to the party.

1.) I believe its important for the US government to put the interest of their people over special interests and foreign interests. We shouldn't be trading at our detriment. That doesn't mean we turn into hermits that don't talk to anyone or do business globally.

I don't believe its fair to compare trumps "America First" message to that of Woodrow Wilson in WW1.

Trumps message is clearly about making America as strong and self reliant economically as possible. He wants America to produce. Buy American and hire American. Stop sending off all of our industries to other countries. Stop relying on countries that hate us for all of our goods.

2.)Just because America working on becoming more self reliant does not mean we abandon allies or stop trading. Just because we work towards being MORE self efficient doesn't mean we are "leaving the world stage". Honestly if we just produce enough to not rely on countries that don't like us. We could help our allies better as well. If we are working on ourselves to produce more we will have more to trade with allies. Its good for the people that live in the country as well for industry/jobs.

3.) Who likes politicians? That's like the joke right? lawyers and politicians? used car salesman?

As far as how its a good thing? I think Trump doesn't talk like a politician and that is certainly good for communicating. People tend to enjoy listening to somebody speak more off the cuff. I like that.

Another thing, he is already very wealthy from working in the private sector. Whether people want to believe it or not that's going to make some people like him, knowing he's not in politics for money. He looses money being president. He's business minded, a lot of people like that. Trump does have an ego. Its annoying sometimes. But I truly do believe trump wants to do a great job... because of his Ego.... and us as American will benefit from that... even if its annoying.

4.) my decisions are more on policy . I like Trumps policy. I didn't vote in the Obama vs McCain/Obama vs Romney. Didn't like Romney, McCain, or Obama.

You know people talk shit about Trumps Tax cuts. I appreciated that. couple more thousand in my pocket is cool. that's not crumbs

Actually trying to secure the border instead of saying they were going to and then do nothing like all the rest before him. I appreciate him actually doing something after saying he was going to do something, even if you disagree with "the wall", everyone before him kept ignoring it.

Deregulation to keep industry in the USA, yeah I'm cool with that

Got several peace deals signed in the middle eat during his presidency. That was cool.

First Step Act was criminal reform policy.. I think that was cool

Becoming the #1 exporter of natural Gas. that was cool

I actually thought trump did well on foreign policy while he was in. A lot better than I originally thought he would.

I liked what he did for the most part

stuff I didn't like had to do with guns. Pushing red flag laws and bump stock ban.

Also Id like to see Trump support Weed being legalized federally.

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#35 tjandmia
Member since 2017 • 2754 Posts

America's first insurrectionist president. lol

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#36 Nirgal
Member since 2019 • 877 Posts

@sargentd: every American president puts their country first. What you see as them putting other countries first is simply making consessions in some aspects to make gains in others

Put america first is just an empty slogan.

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#37 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 4335 Posts

@nirgal: no "build back better" is an empty slogan

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#38 GirlUSoCrazy
Member since 2015 • 19937 Posts

Interesting thread, it's an opportunity for people to have straightforward discussions and help understand each other. I hope all of America starts to prefer this approach, and realize everyone has their own reasons and their own justifications for their decisions. This is why voting is an individual decision made at a certain point in time.

The way we arrive at what we think now has been an ever changing experience, and it will continue to change. No one person knows everything, and when we come together we can each offer a unique perspective to someone we talk to, and they can offer their unique perspective to us. We all are missing some puzzle piece and perhaps someone else can unlock it.

I hope everyone is as open to inviting consideration of other perspectives.

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#39  Edited By Nirgal
Member since 2019 • 877 Posts

@sargentd: build back better was a poor slogan that signalled focus on building infrastructure. It doesn't sound nice, but it refers rather specifically to what they were trying to do.

Anyway, i am not here to defend biden, but put america first doesn't mean anything in terms of actual policy.

Even the trade barriers trump placed are a trade-off. You get to manufacture more in the USA (or away from China), in exchange of paying more for things.

Its not like other presidents were acting against their own country interested and then suddenly trump thought different.

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#40  Edited By Nirgal
Member since 2019 • 877 Posts

@girlusocrazy: for me, this was a valid approach until trump tried to overturn the election. Now its an existential problem for the democratic system and I don't think we should continue to treat former president trump as just another candidate with a different opinion.

And i say this as freedom of expression dogmatists that leans conservative in most economical and social issues.

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#41 rmpumper
Member since 2016 • 1713 Posts

@nirgal said:

@sargentd: every American president puts their country first. What you see as them putting other countries first is simply making consessions in some aspects to make gains in others

Put america first is just an empty slogan.

Correct, but unlike Trump, the other guys understand that making your allies stronger and more confident in US, not weaker and distrustful, and your enemies weaker, not stronger by fucking over your allies and sucking up to your enemies because you want to be one of the authoritarian dictators yourself, is what made "America great" in the first place.

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#42 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 4335 Posts

@rmpumper: I legit don't understand what you are talking about. It's very vague.

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#43  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 20426 Posts
@girlusocrazy said:

Interesting thread, it's an opportunity for people to have straightforward discussions and help understand each other. I hope all of America starts to prefer this approach, and realize everyone has their own reasons and their own justifications for their decisions. This is why voting is an individual decision made at a certain point in time.

The way we arrive at what we think now has been an ever changing experience, and it will continue to change. No one person knows everything, and when we come together we can each offer a unique perspective to someone we talk to, and they can offer their unique perspective to us. We all are missing some puzzle piece and perhaps someone else can unlock it.

I hope everyone is as open to inviting consideration of other perspectives.

Agreed, understanding the perspectives and humanizing the other side is important. This is why when I ask him questions, I make them difficult to answer, because that gives me better answers.

I am glad this thread can continue. While If I made the thread it would be pretty redundant, pretty sure most people here have a good grasp of what my sustainable development agenda means. and if anyone doesn't there are tonnes of academic works on it. And if I am getting increasingly concerned about it, I make a thread about it,

However, regular right wingers here are pretty outnumbered. I would argue that overall, there have been more right wingers in total, but retention rate for them havent been the best. Furhtermore, right wing thought is far more niche in academia and thus difficult to access. Most of the time we hear about America First (whether it is Trump, Dukakis, or attitudes prior to the World Wars), we only hear of its failures.

If we can understand each others perspective, compromise will be easier and hopefully less partisanship.

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#44 KathaarianCode
Member since 2022 • 581 Posts

@girlusocrazy: It's true but it's also true that the probability of the next potus being a Putin admirer that shares his anti EU agenda is making it hard to have strong commitments unlike in past crisis. That on top of Trump considering NATO obsolete, which at the light of current events is confirmed to be beyond insane.

I agree with you, but when the head of an alliance is a fascist wanna be which betrays his allies and admires world tyrants that goes down the drain.

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#45  Edited By Litchie
Member since 2003 • 31198 Posts

"America first" lol. Selfish bastards ftw.

Don't want to ask you anything. I really don't get your guys obsession with your own country. Your country is basically a mix of many other countries. Basically everything you have is from other countries. There's nothing really special about your country, your inhabitants come from all over the world. It's big enough to be many different countries. You're constantly being fed with "America is the greatest country in the world" while you haven't explored or educated yourselves about any other part of the world. It's just fucking weird man. So smug without any reason to be smug.

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#46  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 20426 Posts
@Litchie said:

"America first" lol. Selfish bastards ftw.

Don't want to ask you anything. I really don't get your guys obession with your own country. Your country is basically a mix of many other countries. Basically everything you have is from other countries. There's nothing really special about your country, your inhabitants come from all over the world. It's big enough to be many different countries. You're constantly being fed with "America is the greatest country in the world" while you haven't explored or educated yourselves about any other part of the world. It's just fucking weird man. So smug without any reason to be smug.

America First is just nationalism. And just as self destructive as all other brands of nationalism have been.

The economy simply doesnt owrk that way. If you don't specialize, in favor of self reliance, you will set yourself up to be outcompeted in every area. Hopelessly outclassed.

He does have a point though in that the US should not rely on Russian oil. Neither should us europeans, which is why I am glad us swedes rely mostly on nuclear power and hydroelectricity. But most european countries did not make our transition and relied on Russian Oil (since most countries lack the natural resources (crude oil) themselves).

America is much larger than our countries though, and you have states specialize in different industries, Wyoming for instance, specializes in Coal. While California specializes in a service economy (which includes tech), the rust belt in manufacturing and so on.

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#47  Edited By Nirgal
Member since 2019 • 877 Posts

@sargentd: what he means is that what you perceive as putting America last is making concessions to build economical and military blocks that increase American power overseas by leveraging the influence of other countries.

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#48  Edited By Nirgal
Member since 2019 • 877 Posts

https://youtu.be/Jqn3V8EJVPg

"They are bringing drugs, they are bringing crime, they are rapists, and some, i assume, are good people"

About Mexican immigrants that illegally crossed the border to do menial low wage jobs to send money back to their families.

To be fair, i am also against illegal immigration. But assuming migrant workers are mostly drug dealers, criminals and rapists (except for some few good people), is laughable.

If you are to explain opposition to illegal immigration it should be in the basis on protection of local low wage workers, dimishing quantity to an amount that can be actually culturally integrated, giving priority to legal more educated immigrants, and so many other reasons.

There is no reason to lie and claim most illegal immigrants are criminals or bad people.

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#49 Eoten
Member since 2020 • 8374 Posts
@nirgal said:

https://youtu.be/Jqn3V8EJVPg

"They are bringing drugs, they are bringing crime, they are rapists, and some, i assume, are good people"

About Mexican immigrants that illegally crossed the border to do menial low wage jobs to send money back to their families.

To be fair, i am also against illegal immigration. But assuming migrant workers are mostly drug dealers, criminals and rapists (except for some few good people), is laughable.

If you are to explain opposition to illegal immigration it should be in the basis on protection of local low wage workers, dimishing quantity to an amount that can be actually culturally integrated, giving priority to legal more educated immigrants, and so many other reasons.

There is no reason to lie and claim most illegal immigrants are criminals or bad people.

I would say the only reason anyone needs to be opposed to illegal immigration is because it's illegal immigration. ILLEGAL immigration. Why treat the people who do it illegally like they are some kind of victims when we have a list of people trying to do it the right way, the legal way. Who would you rather in your community? Those who worked hard to do it legit, or the ones that said "laws? **** those, just give me what I want?" I hate to break it to you, but this sob story that it's mostly innocent people wanting a better life is bullcrap. And it makes it harder for people from those countries LEGALLY to escape the stigma created by the less than legal groups coming over.

https://www.judicialwatch.org/in-2019-over-90-of-illegal-aliens-arrested-in-u-s-had-criminal-convictions-pending-charges/

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/report-illegal-immigration-leads-to-2-200-deaths-118-000-rapes-138-000-assaults

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#50 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 126584 Posts

@rmpumper said:
@nirgal said:

@sargentd: every American president puts their country first. What you see as them putting other countries first is simply making consessions in some aspects to make gains in others

Put america first is just an empty slogan.

Correct, but unlike Trump, the other guys understand that making your allies stronger and more confident in US, not weaker and distrustful, and your enemies weaker, not stronger by fucking over your allies and sucking up to your enemies because you want to be one of the authoritarian dictators yourself, is what made "America great" in the first place.

@sargentd said:

@rmpumper: I legit don't understand what you are talking about. It's very vague.

Interesting.