Why I give props to anyone who finds Bloodborne enjoyable

@Coco_pierrot: Gascoigne is pretty hard - Took me four or five tries to kill him, he's pretty damn quick. You can get to him via the short cuts and the elevator though, and you should be able to get rid of the enemies on the bridge etc etc pretty easily. Just remember to ''level up'' frequently.

Yes, you can be nice, and you should. You've been given more leeway than I care to think about - This ISN'T System Wars. Don't bring the attitude over here. The rules are different.

@seanh: Yeah I have beaten the Cleric beast so I spawn on the bridge which is very close to Gascoigne lair. I just got level 22 and bought new weapons (both costed 3000 ). I think I'll do a little better this time. I have tried like 5 times now. He is too fast for our slow caracter. People says that a game like Mega Man or old platformer like Ninja Gaiden on NES are hard but this time of game is a lot more brutal to me than those old game.

I think the key to beating him is keeping your distance from him using the gravestones, stunning him with your firearm, and then going in for a brutal melee attack. When he transforms, use the music box to stun him. The first two bosses (Cleric Beast and Gascoigne) are such terrible first bosses. Locking on to the Cleric Beast sucks because of the crappy camera angle and Gascoigne is just too fast and strong. I really dislike that there aren't checkpoints before bosses. I really have to be in the mood to play Bloodborne. Losing all the health vials you used prior and having to fight or run past all the enemies you just killed isn't challenging, it's just fucking annoying.

Yeah I agree. I heard about the music box, which i did obtain, but I never used it as it just distracted me from the fight fiddling around trying to get it out etc.

Cleric beast was easy actually, because I just stayed by his feet, and kept dodging so he actually didn't hit me at all really.

Dude is only hard when he transforms, what an annoying POS! :D

I finnally beat Gascoigne yesterday, I was most of the fight up the stairs until he transformed, then I led him downstairs, throw him some oil then a Molotov, I always played it safe by getting away and heal as much as possible

@Vatusus:

Duh !!! You have to be some sort of inhuman machine to not let shitty design that gets a lot of praise to not rub you the wrong way.....

Anyway.... yes its just an oppinion.... and its a pretty damn good well thought out one.... I don't why you like look down on peoples oppinions.

@xantufrog:

Different rules.... same level intelligence.... its all the same to me.

There's two types of gamers; those who love these games and those who haven't spent enough time with them yet.

@gamerguru100: He took me 2 attempts. He's piss easy to stun. Just let him come at you.

Bloodborne was my very first "souls" game and it literally took me the entire afternoon to get past the first boss. I probably would have rage quited if there were other games which were more accessible at the time but I'm so glad I didn't.

@GhostHawk196: Did you beat the Blood Starved Beast yet? That guy is really annoying.

@seanh: Yea but he wasn't a boss which I found too difficult. I managed to beat him rather easily with my Ludwig sword. It really depends on the person, for me I found the final boss Gerhman or something to be excruciatingly difficult, others include rom the spider and 2 bosses from the chalice dungeon. There was another boss right before the university I thought was pretty difficult, I forgot his name but he was really disgusting and was basically corpses stuck together. Basically if you can get past the first bit then you're in for a treat.

@GhostHawk196: Did you manage to beat that annoying git on top of that clock tower with the big machine gun?

OP ignore anyone saying it's not a hard game, that is just gamer elitist bs. its obviously a hard game. and yeah, I agree the checkpoint system is pretty bad. I don't know how far you got, but there is a better system in the game which is shortcuts. If you got to that first lantern in Central Yharnam I think it is, there are 2 paths. The left one is locked by a gate and the right one is open.

What you have to do is this game is constantly look for the shortcuts. Before you worry about any boss, look for the shortcuts. That is pretty much your number one objective in the game. Also, when you get too tired of retrying an area over and over, just run like hell past it and look for the shortcuts.

The game is not for everyone, but I liked it better than previous souls games (didn't finish dark souls 2 though it just got 2 annoying). The shortcut system pretty much saved it for me because it allowed me to play through without getting too frustrated. But again, it's not for everyone. If you don't like it then yeah, just return it. Not worth pushing yourself to play a game you don't enjoy.

Also, I noticed you were considering Witcher 3. I'd say GET IT for sure. That is one game that you won't be disappointed with I can pretty much guarantee. Seriously the best game I've played in a long time dude the reviews aren't lying about this one.

@seanh: I don't remember, it's been more than 4 months since I last played bloodborne. I've gotten the platinum so if the boss/enemy is within the course of attaining the platinum the chances are I've beaten them.

I totally agree with this. I still feel like Demon's is by far the best in this series. The amount of hidden content in that game/world is something both of the others lack. I also found BB's environments to be beautiful, but way too similar throughout the game.

Anyone who says this obviously hasn't played any hard games

He's got a point though - It's harder than a large percentage of games out there today.

I know many people probably don't like playing their games this way- but I played along to EpicNameBro's walkthrough of Bloodborne. Given that the game can be frustrating if you don't know where to go/continually miss shortcuts, it helped maximize my time with the game without feeling like I was wasting time.

Bloodborne is by far my favorite game of this generation. I was fond of Dark souls, didn't play too much of Demon's Souls.

Bloodborne's combat is superior to everything else I've played- even the Witcher 3's updated controls for it's combat lack the responsiveness, weight, and strategy associated with using new weapons.

I get that Bloodborne isn't for everyone. But I absolutely loved the horror setting- I went back and played a bit of dark souls and honestly, didn't enjoy it that much because of BB's superior pace and setting. It can be a frustrating experience, but it also can be such a rewarding one that it'll change your outlook on games. JMO

It's a punishing game- it doesn't give you auto saves or fill in the every blank for you. It demands a lot out of you as a gamer, and gives a ton back.

Considering that a large percentage of games today don't present any sort of challenge, I'd say that's a fair assessment. But just because it's slightly harder than games that have no difficulty whatsoever doesn't necessarily make it difficult. Compared to truly challenging games, this pretty much comes down to trial and error (if you suck at it).

Bloodborne so far is really easy. All you have to do is not rush in. But the gameplay is very repetitive.

Right now I have the choice to go again Vicar Amelia which I tried 4 times now and I think I have a chance again her since she is very vulnerable to fire, Blood Starved Beast ( if I avoid the hunter ) or avoir a very fast hunter to go straight to the asshole with the machine gun that killed me 4 times as I try to push him outside of the small rooftop.

ahhh I'm almost on the verge of rage quitting this game. It would be a first for me as I normally finish my games ... I even finished Devil May Cry 3 the first release whish was way more difficult than the second version with Vergil.

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

Don't read unless you have played the game through or are curious.

I was a huge fan of Demon Souls and constantly had to ask on this site (they had a forum specifically to help with the game) on how to get through it.

So here are a few points I love about the game:

1) You can miss things and not even know it. An example would be the Amgydala boss I never even came close to fighting until I looked at a list of bosses online and realised I had missed maybe 4. Another example would be that I never helped Eileen after the first contact and found she was hostile in the Cathedral . . . I talked to a mate and he had a completely different scenario where she was dying on a step. Also the fact I did Alfred's quest story and my friend didn't even know who Alfred was! It is fantastic that so many items and bosses/quests are optional and you could miss without knowing. You can't help but think about what you missed or what would be different and you go back to see.

2) I love the feel of not being safe, you can't run in, die, then pick up where you left. You have to be careful but there is also always a sbortcut once you make it near a boss so you just need to look for it. Also you can just run past almost every non boss enemy if you wish and you are tired of trying, but you may miss cool items.

3) The tension and frustration I did not mind, once you get the hang of a souls/From game you don't die too often, it is difficult but fair in what it asks of you. You have to take your time with bosses and be patient. Rom the Spider did my head in as I was rushing and his one hit attack where he rolls on his side and shoots up at you was getting me everytime, but when I finally slowed down I did it . . . Albeit with 0 blood vials, 0 bullets and literally the minimum health you could have left.

4) The gothic medevil fantasy is my cup of tea, draws you in, makes you uncomforatable while you are still stunned by your surroundings, everything about it is perfect for me.

5) The fact the story is scattered, you could play the game and have little idea if you do not collect all the items and find all the NPCs or you miss the dead wife after the Gascoigne fight etc. Depending on how much you put into exploring, you get rewarded with more understanding of what is happening and why. (Also apparently if you go back after killing Gacoigne sometimes there is a hunter there waiting to kill you . . . Obviously I didn't do what was required to meet him and so never saw him, but he played a big part in the story as I checked afterwards to see he was a church hunter like Gascoigne and they were friends, just another thing you could completely miss)

Ive started to find the game more enjoyable now, I've found that once I got past Vicar Amelia (I had to summon someone) the game starts to feel a bit more manageable. The problem for me is Vicar Amelia and Blood Starved Beast come too early in the game.

@idunnodude: Bloodborne really is not hard. The difficulty is way overhyped. It just takes not rushing in head first screaming "YOLO!" Half of the bosses have huge blind spots, mostly just require just running around to their backside. And parry is OP. On top of the fact that you can always summon help, making it even easier. It's the reason why the speedruns of this game are so possible.

@Chris_53: I also managed to beat Vicar Amelia and The Blood Starved Beast. Once I managed to beat the Blood Starved Beast, Vicar Amelia was super easy with some mist to removed her hability to heal herself.

Now I beat the crap out of two Hunter on the right of VicarAmelia and it was manageable, but I ended up exploring a little bit and found the password to somewhere in the Cathedral that lead me in a forest and I wonder what I'll find there.

Finally completed it today, its a great game that is very difficult to start off with, I even posted a thread on here expressing my frustration but I found that after a while, the game became not easier, but manageable

@amyh7292: what helped me immensely in this game is to run around avoiding as many enemies and opening all of the short cuts first!

These Souls games sound a llot like Monster Hunter. Are they really this hard? Monster Hunter was very hard.

@amyh7292: There are countless venting posts like this all around the internet, aimed at Dark Souls and Bloodborne.

You say that you like challenges but that doesn't necessarily mean that Bloodborne is for you.

I still think that the games that FromSoftware make are very niche-y but somehow got popular....It's not supposed to be popular. I wanted it to stay niche. Because otherwise you get more people that play it but really shouldn't. I know this sounds selfish. But the Souls series made me feel like it was my game and the community of players' that actually pushed through or retried after giving up..... This created in my opinion the best game community I've encountered. Now we can't shut up about how awesome these games are. They gave me the most rewarding experiences out of all the games I've played.

Just so you know.... the first time I played Dark Souls I immediately got frustrated at all it's flaws and mechanics and quit after clearing the Undead Burg (which is the second area you need to clear in the game ). 3 months later.... I retried. Now it's the best game I've ever played. It made me realise that I don't necessarily want a flawless or nearly perfect game...

Lulu you are basically trying to expose DS's mechanics as if they were the simpler than the average game......but I can make any game sound simple.

Smart AI isn't needed whatsoever in DS or even any hack'n slash type action adventure game. Darksiders, DMC, etc..... Not much of a difference in AI .

The fact that Dark Souls has dumb AI doesn't make the game as you want to make it sound.

The skill needed in Dark Souls lies in timing, patience and memorising. Very simple. But to be consistent in all three of those.

You always sound like the guy that would spam that "button" in a fighting game that would always make you win, instead of trying something different.

But you'll probably continue because then you get to sound unique whenever you post on these forums.

I like all sorts of games! I like bloodborne, dark souls, call of duty, final fantasy, RC Pro-Am, Final Fight, Gunstar Heroes, Warcraft, all fun games--no need to fight about it :)

if you grind a few levels at the start then the game gets much easier

i sucked at demon souls(haven't played DS1 or 2) but found this quite enjoyable and relatively easy after beating father G

The only other boss that gave me trouble was Ebrietas cause of his BS charging attack,everything else i beat in 1 try.I did spend a lot of time leveling by killing pigs though so there's that.

I've beaten all the soul games and bloodborne

@acp_45:

Smart AI is needed when the enemy designs are lazily thought up and put together. To give you an example of what I mean go check out Transistor. The enemies are dumb as Rocks but since each one is given a distinct characteristic and function it means you can approach them with some thought.

Like the Cluckers.... now thats a a dumb as shit AI if ever I saw one but its function is that its one of the only enemies that can Fire Over Cover and it runs away everytime you approach it.... exposing itself for Backstabbing in the process.

I would exploit this feature by chasing the Cluckers constantly but only attacking the enemies that would chase me.... these would be the Creeps, Fetches and Bad Cells. That way I didn't have to worry about being overwhelmed or being sniped by either enemy. Plus the Cluckers did display some rudimentary intelligence because they didn't run away in a straightline...

Which made it difficult to herd multiple Cluckers up together at once.

Contrast this Dark Souls where the entire list of enemies basicly amount to four different types, Enemies you can Backstab...... enemies you can't Backstab...... Big Enemies and Overpowred or Underpowered Players you encounter online.

Dark Souls does require those skills you listed..... just not in the good interesting kind of way. Patience in a good game means waiting yields valuable information about the challenge ahead of you..... Patience in Dark Souls stems from Damage Sponges or Groups of Enemies that are so dull and repetive that you get killed by rushing to get away from the tedium of having to Kill them all.... one Backstab at a time. Encounters in Dark Souls last way too long considering the simplicity of the enemie's designs. Nobody wants to be in the scenario where they have circle strafe and butt poke yet another big boss with a simple move set for 10 minutes straight. Or where they need to use arrows to lure a damage sponge out from a group of other damage sponges just so they can chain backstab them one at a time.

The timing in Dark Souls is simplicistic so much so they had to up the challenge everynow and by giving enemies what I like to call "Surprise Moves" that serve no purpose other than to kill you off in a random fashion.... Hell the Bone Wheel Skeletons were built exclusively around this concept and some of the bosses have a powerfull move with a very short windup and and recovery mixed in with they regular more believable moves where the damage actually is insync with how telegrapged that move is..... its not always one Big Move mind you..... it can be a series of moves that stun lock you.... like The Crossbreed Priscilla and...... gosh whats that Goat Faced Demon called again ? Yeah him too.

As for Memorisation..... I consider this to be a skill no game should be designed for.... mind you that includes Puzzle games.... as crazy as that seems. There's nothing I hate more that over coming a challenge just by memory. You get alot of that in Dark Souls in the form of Different Damage Types...... knowing that an enemy is weak to a particular type of Damage severely cripples much of the challenge in the game since you can just go with an Extreme Lightning/Fire/Magic Weapon and then one shot it......ofcourse this requires a ton of grinding and lots of Back/Retracking to pull off.... appearently I'm the type of gamer who will grind and farm one section of the game More so that I can play the other Sections of the Game Less.

"You always sound like the guy that would spam that "button" in a fighting game that would always make you win, instead of trying something different."

And when using a FOO Strategy (First Order Oprimal Strategy) actually works then whos the one at fault ? Me ?

Or the idiots the that can't be even bothered to playtest their own game even once.

I do what any player would when presented with a chore instead of challenge.... I try to beat it as effeciently as possible.

I remember the first time played Dark Souls and I stumbled my way into Dark Root Garden to kill Sif. At first like any other player I Stood in front of it with my shield up and patiently wait for an opening that would both allow me to attack and Recover with stamina to spare for Emergency Rolling or whatever...... what happens instead was Sif completely depleting my stamina with One swing and then Killing Me with the 2nd Swing of his Gigantic Sword.

My second plan was to forgo the use of a shield entirely.... and since Sif can one shot me I might as well just go naked.... if I had the Red Tearstone Ring then I would have put it one too.... not that it would have done me any good. Dodging Sif's attack was easy enough.... I could do it all day.... the problem was poking her on the nose to do enough damage before I went back on the defensive. I don't have the patience to rinse and repeat this process for 12 Twelve minutes.... not to mention Sif has that one Upward Swing Attack that he performs without warning instantly killing me.

I eventually gave up and moved on.... but not very far because much of the game's "formidable enemies" are designed in a manner the renders the very mechanics you are given to survive virtually useless.

I then made my way back to Sif.... turned off the Autolock.......Ran between his Legs and sliced and diced the living shit out of him because appearently he only has ONE attack for that scenario and its not a particulrly good one.

I mean playing this game like its clever is pointless.... not only is exploiting the designers Lacky of creativity in how they made the enemies the best way to win..... they actually drive you torwards this type of behaviour right from the very beginning of the game.

I mean there you are in the Assylum and a big Fat Frog falls out of no where and what does the game tell you to do ? To runaway.... get bigger weapons and stab it in the face from above since theres nothing he can do about that......... The Taurus demon is e even worse because you can re-abuse the Plunging attack since they placed a ladder there for you.

Its one thing when a developer accidently has a Systematic Flaw in their games like this but its something else all together when they Corner the player into abusing these exploits because: "teh Hardcore Difficulty"

And can you believe this extends all the way into the Multiplayer..... you can beat actual thinking human beings with these stupid tactics. And what do these Assholes say when you complain: "GIT GUD".

Sigh......

I get that we are all tired of Handholding but at what point does no handholding become a failure to telegraph a challenge so you can make INFORMED DECISIONS! !!!

...

You can make a lot of informed decisions in Dark Souls.

An example, in the Sif fight. If you say in the fight long enough and try different approaches, you'll be able to see through most of his move set. After that, your precious "informed decisions" come in play.

"I then made my way back to Sif.... turned off the Autolock.......Ran between his Legs and sliced and diced the living shit out of him because appearently he only has ONE attack for that scenario and its not a particulrly good one."

You used the word "apparently"...does this mean you checked a guide or something on the internet ? It's somewhat clear here. It's not a bad thing, it would just go against you little " Informed decision" that you couldn't make in the Sif fight. I've seen plenty of guides on Youtube/Wiki and they always say that you shouldn't use the auto-lock feature in this fight...So I'd assume that you picked it up from there and if not that would mean YOU ACTUALLY DID MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION BY NOT USING AUTO-LOCK. If is a big boss and he kind of runs and jumps around plus you need to get up close if you want to hit Sif. Also you said you only had 2 plans you used against Sif. Very plain...

Informed decisions are dependant on timing,patience and memorisation.

"I mean playing this game like its clever is pointless.... not only is exploiting the designers Lacky of creativity in how they made the enemies the best way to win..... they actually drive you torwards this type of behaviour right from the very beginning of the game."

This is the perfect example of you downplaying something entirely normal and calling it lack of creativity. Exploiting sounds bad but that is exactly what you do in a game. In every game you use their mechanics and exploit them for an outcome. It's different from a " unlimited money" exploit you can find some games....since those are actually a mistake. The way you phrase everything makes it look like you are desperately trying to make the game sound bad, yet you are accusing it of using conventional mechanics. That's why I've always wondered if you'll actually enjoy a game one day....

@acp_45:

Making an informed decision in Dark Souls is next to impossible because because the not only known for being "Obtuse" (which is the word everybody uses...... I personally find that adjective grossly misleading) but thats exactly why they like the game...... because it doesn't tell you anything and its near impossible to know where you are going or what you're doing. This "Obtuse" pervades every inch of the game from the Level design to how you level and what weapons or armour you can chose..... its made even worse by the online message which are mostly Nonsensical more than they Helpfull or Hurtful.

How are you suppose to know that leveling Resistance is useless.......

How are you suppose to know which of the 6 - 10 weapons of each category is the best one ? Same goes to armor.

How are you suppose to know how the damage Scaling works ?

How are you suppose to know any enemy in the game's weakness and resistance and even if you do find out evenually..... what are you suppose to do after pouring all your resources into some shitty Divine Broad Sword that that isn't even useful in the Catacombs..... seriously..... I've had better luck suicide running into the Catacombs Kamikze'ing the shit of the Necrilomancers than I did going through yet another Chain Backstabbathon with those Skeletons..... I mean if you use a divine weapon they are still going to respawn anyway if you rest or die right ? **** It..... might aswell go in there only killing the Necromancers.

As for why I'm using a devine weapon as an example its because you are far more likely to pick up the Divine Ember first than you are to get the Large Ember which would have been infinitely much more usefull.

The only way can know anything in this game is if you either use a Guide to know what all those numbers mean and how they affect which enemies in what way..... or you can farm and Grind to upgrade 5 identical weapons across the different upgrade paths and whenever you encounter any enemies you haven't seen before then you can wack them with each and compare the results because theres no in game way to aquire this information naturally by playing...... think about how many Souls this requires, you need 9 Titanite Shards for each weapon and thats at 800 Souls for each shard, 3 green titanite which you won't be able to buy until Sen's Fortress and if that still isn't you need to go hunting for the locations of all the Black Smiths, who will charge you 200 Souls for each upgrade.

Thats just over 45000 Souls and god know what anount time down the drain just to find which mother fucker is weak/strong against what stupid arbitrary damage types in the game......

Atleast doing that has some sort method...... knowing which weapons are good and which suck has no logical solution....... I mean you going into the game not knowing how the Damage Scaling works but even if you did, trying to get the best weapon by Finding the one with Desired Auxiliary Effect (Such as Bleed) and optimizing for High Base Damage and and Scaling Rank at +0 doesn't give the best results because some weapons upgrade with a steeper curve at each interval better than others and theres know way of knowing that other than by.... yep pouring time and resources into throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks....

You maybe wondering why I think its so important to get the best gear when average gear works too......... well this game is suppose to be hard right ?

Aquiring informatiom about what to do next is no picnic either...... when you arrive at The Shrine your only source of information is an NPC who tells you to go Up stairs and Ring a bell and and go Down Stairs and Ring a Bell.

The Former is simple enough...... pretty much the only place you can go is towards the Undead Parish since all the enemies there ard somewhat manageable to whatever class you started with.

The problem is with the Latter..... finding the 2nd Bell can be very missleading because both You and the NPC are at Firelink when he gives the vague geographic directions about where these bells. After Ring the First Bell naturally anyplayer would go back to Firelink Shrine and look for a way to head further below the level they are currently at....... and the The Only two locations that lead further down when starting at firelink Shrine are New Londo Ruins and The Catacombs....... both of which have absolutely zero connection to finding either bell. And both of which are Gang Rape Central for any new player who don't even know what Divine or Curse mumbo jumbo is

The NPC at Firelink Shrine gives you absolutely no information about either until you exhaust his dialogue about some unimportant Bullshit...... mind you can't exhaust his Dialogue all at once you need to leave Firelink multiple times to...

I don't know....... load new Dialogue or some dumb shit otherwise he will just keep repeating: "I'm not up for chatting leave me Alone" on a loop until you go away again..... this isn't something that is immediately appearent and I had no reason to believe he had anything new to tell me after hearing him repeatedly telling me to go away.

It takes him forever to finally admit that Blighttown is Below the Undead Burg and not Below Firelink Shrine........ that fucking asshole !!!

Lucky for me I had the the Master Key so I managed to stumble into Blighttown from the Shortcut........ Killed the Bitch..... Rang the Bell and continued into Sen's Fortress WITH ABSOLUTELY NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE EXISTANCE OF:

THE DEPTHS

UPPER BLIGHTTOWN

THE GREAT HOLLOW

AND ASH LAKE.

I mean its one thing to play a game and to miss out on an easter egg or some tiny secret..... its something else altogether accidently know these Four Rather important locations existed.

I mean by the time I found out about these areas I had already killed Seath and The Centipede Demon..... to more bossess and I would finnished the game none the wiser.

"If is a big boss and he kind of runs and jumps around plus you need to get up close if you want to hit Sif. Also you said you only had 2 plans you used against Sif. Very plain..."

The avenues and options available to you are only as big as whatever few thing you managed to gather in the up to that point.

2ndly You can't manually aim for shit in this so I assumed the developers.... even one incompentent as From Software wouldn't design a Boss that Far Exceeds the capabilities of the mechanics they themselves have designed. Ofcourse I was wrong.... it turns out From Software really is dumb enough to design an enemy that the lock on System and several of your mechanics are clearly not practical to use against.

Tell me.... did that ever occur to you when you fought Sif or any of the other bosses...... does it ever occur to any Dark Souls hardcore fans that that isn't really challenging so much it is as they happen to be playing a poorly designed boss fight.

I mean where do you draw the line ? Did you think Bed of Chaos, or that Goat Faced Freak were good challenges...... after all I can just as easily say: "He's clearly a tough boss who destroys the and pushes you into there so the Developers intended for you to quit and reload so you can respawn outside the Fog Gate afte destroying each orb."

It seems like the type of thing a Dark Souls apologist would say.

"This is the perfect example of you downplaying something entirely normal and calling it lack of creativity. Exploiting sounds bad but that is exactly what you do in a game. In every game you use their mechanics and exploit them for an outcome. It's different from a " unlimited money" exploit you can find some games....since those are actually a mistake. The way you phrase everything makes it look like you are desperately trying to make the game sound bad, yet you are accusing it of using conventional mechanics. That's why I've always wondered if you'll actually enjoy a game one day...."

Yeah heres the thing..... the mechanics they give you are useless untill you farm and grind for the appropriate gear and stats to make them even remotely usefull. Or you can go Pixel Hunting for sone Magic Ring or whatever.

Besides in Dark Souls you don't exploit the game's mechanics.... YOU EXPLOIT THE DEVELOPER'S SHITTY DESIGN.

Thats what Dark Souls does..... you don't study the enoucounters the game puts you in the way do in other games. It teaches you to think like Suckerpunching asshole.

"If I stand at this exact spot and hit that knight with this arrow then he will get stuck in the geometry then I can just kill him with Fireballs from a safe distance."

I never thought like that before playing Dark Souls and I'm sure no reasonable normal gamer who appreciates the importance of a pause button thinks that way either......

But Blocking and Dodging and autolocking wasn't working so **** it ! Grind Grind Grind and then exploit. LoL..... game requires very little skill.... all you need is the Right Attitude and a shitload of Freetime.

I'm glad to say I've rid myself from this type of thinking by playing Games where this type of thinking doesn't work...... you know..... because the Developers aren't Sadistic idiots.

The Capra Demon !!!!....

Thats the name of I was looking for.

@acp_45:

LoL..... I don't how this dude can keep going ?

http://www.gamespot.com/dark-souls/forums/beginner-stat-and-build-help-32688302/#2

Well.... I wanted to give you or anyone else a chance put in their two cents before I put in mine.

Afterall.... you "Soul Bros" should look out for each other right..... or you can drop your red Summon Sign.... tell him where to find it then use your +10 Gear to ruin his experience....... you know...... the default Dark Souls Experience.

..

I barely used a guide in my playthroughs. I reached NG+++ with two characters. Just so you know. I faced all the bosses without any guide. This is not a lie. And it's not as impossible as you make it sound. Of course I died a million times in the process.

The first time I played the game, I realised how flawed a game Dark Souls was. I quit after my first 3 hours in the game....and I left the game for 3 whole months. After that, because I live in South Africa I had lots of problems with my internet back in 2011. There were 6 whole months that I didn't have internet. So I replayed games like Fallout 3 and was currently busy with Skyrim at the time. After I played them for the majority of the 6 months, I wanted to try something else. So I fired up Dark Souls, 3 months after I had initially played it. At the end of the day I enjoyed playing Dark Souls more than Skyrim and Fallout 3. The game is fundamentally flawed, that is obvious. Dark Souls made me realise that I don't necessarily want a flawless game.

My first playthrough was kind of weird and directionless. I didn't know anything whatsoever about the world I was exploring but it felt so grand and as if I was completely insignificant. I never found the Ash Lake, nor that Hollow tree and even some parts of the Demon Ruins. Valley of Drakes as well. I can't really remember all that well....but I definitely missed quite a few places. In my second play through, I ended up finding all those places...I got the key to the valley of drakes to get to Blighttown...The valley of drakes wasn't all that impressive though... I accidentally found the invisible wall that led to the inside of the hollow tree. How ? Well, after my first play through, I never trusted chests anymore...those mimics scared the crap out of me. So I always whacked every chest I found with my weapon first. At the time I didn't know that there was a way to differentiate between mimic or actual chest. And so I smashed the chest with my Halberd and the invisible wall behind it opened. Went down the tree....which took me quite sometime and quite a few deaths... also during all this I found that those slug things in the swamps dropped large titanite shards as well as green titanite shards....so that was my first farming spot that I had found on my own. After the hollow tree I found the Ash Lake...this place really was the best looking area in Dark Souls but at the same time nothing really happened there.

Guides came in later when I wanted to find different build and play styles as well as recommended areas to farm souls. I faced all bosses on my own..... and cleared every area without guides. This is nothing special because I'm pretty sure thousands of others have done the same.

" The only way can know anything in this game is if you either use a Guide to know what all those numbers mean and how they affect which enemies in what way..... or you can farm and Grind to upgrade 5 identical weapons across the different upgrade paths and whenever you encounter any enemies you haven't seen before then you can wack them with each and compare the results because theres no in game way to aquire this information naturally by playing...... think about how many Souls this requires, you need 9 Titanite Shards for each weapon and thats at 800 Souls for each shard, 3 green titanite which you won't be able to buy until Sen's Fortress and if that still isn't you need to go hunting for the locations of all the Black Smiths, who will charge you 200 Souls for each upgrade."

You make this sound harder and at the same time you are being way too strict. The way I found out what weapons work better in which area went like this:

I find a certain sword> It does decent damage to the enemies I am facing in the area> becomes my preferred weapon for the time being> then I clear the area and face say a boss or new type of enemy and my sword doesn't seem to do as well against the new enemies> Either I try another weapon in my inventory or bottomless chest or I upgrade it> then depending on what solution I continue through the game...

I never wanted to know all the details about how this or that works.... I just played on...and made my own decisions on how to proceed. I probably used the incorrect weapon against some enemies but I ended up realising it and tried a different approach..

I never knew crystal weapons could break... I never knew divine weapons work well against skeletons ... Never knew about chaos fire element.. never knew about the fire blacksmith..never knew about the chaos fire ember... etc...

Some of those I ended up finding on my own in later playthroughs and some I found through guides to builds I wanted to try out.

"There's no in game way to acquire this information naturally by playing..."

I don't see the problem here.... Is it so terrible that you don't necessarily find all the different mechanics by naturally playing ? There is no universal play style that'll unveil them to you in any RPG. If you played as a mage...obviously you wouldn't know how the bleeding effect works... If you played Knight and only used the correlated gear then you wouldn't know much about magic.. These are just examples...but it should be clear..

You make a big deal of wanting to find that certain "button that makes you win". Look at your post.. Some of your rants are aimed at the fact that you never found the strongest and better weapons... or rather you had to find them through guides...because there is no way to know for sure by just playing the game...

To this day I don't really know what sword is the strongest in Skyrim because I don't think I even found all of them. Yet I played over 200 hours on Skyrim.

My point here is that you don't necessarily have to find the perfect gear after your first play through.... The way you find out how stats work is by playing the way you want to play and so the stats that play a role in your play through will become clearer and only those. Simple.

You say "hunting for blacksmiths"....why?

In my playthroughs I ended up finding them and so I knew where they were and used them in my later playthroughs....no need to hunt for them.... ? In fact, it's normal not to know where they are if you haven't found them yet... This is a basic maths equation anyone can solve. Why did you hunt for them specifically.. ? Shouldn't you just play the game and get to them at your own pace.. ?

You try to add up the amount of souls you'd need for upgrading... but honestly I never found all the blacksmiths in my first play through, maybe even my second... but by that time souls aren't a problem and you have plenty of them... so when you do find them in your 2nd play through.....you should have more than enough souls..

"Besides in Dark Souls you don't exploit the game's mechanics.... YOU EXPLOIT THE DEVELOPER'S SHITTY DESIGN.

Thats what Dark Souls does..... you don't study the enoucounters the game puts you in the way do in other games. It teaches you to think like Suckerpunching asshole."

I admit that the design is fundamentally flawed..

But you do study encounters... that is exactly what you do... You see.. once again you are making it sound bad by accusing conventional mechanics..

In any game you should find a way to sucker punch...to get your wanted outcome. In an FPS, it's better to take cover than to just waltz in the middle of the battlefield and rely on reflex and aiming rather than positioning. Hell, in Battlefield games, everything is about positioning. Positioning can beat anything in that game...A bad player with bad aiming can master the way of positioning and overcome any player that has amazing skill in aiming. It's to exploit the design of the game.

In Dark Souls, you can fight a boss and end up knowing the majority of it's move set... and so... you'll make your informed decision. "If he lifts his arm like that, it means an AoE attack is coming or if he runs like this in means he is going to attack like this or that..." This is obvious. You end up finding a way to sucker punch...

"You maybe wondering why I think its so important to get the best gear when average gear works too......... well this game is suppose to be hard right ?"

This is a pathetic excuse to resort to guides.. I'm not saying that it's wrong to use guides... but this is so lame. Average gear works... yes... but you make it sound like you already knew what was strong and weak from the beginning. That's how you don't play or rather: Don't play like that and then bash the game.

I never knew what gear was average or strong until I actually found those weapons. It's obvious when you pick up the Black Knight Halberd....It's strong but while you don't have it you continue to trod through the world..picking up weapons and gear along the way and finding your preferred move sets and damage outputs. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY NORMAL...

The game is supposed to be hard ? What do you even mean by this.... ? This has nothing to do with wether or not average gear is needed. This is just you once again striving to find a way to sucker punch the game. Your main problem with the game is that there is no fast way to find the "win button" in this game except by resorting to guides. The problem here isn't you sorting to guides but rather you rushing to the "win" button... If you weren't rushing then you would've found 80% of the strong gear all by yourself at your own pace.

"How are you suppose to know any enemy in the game's weakness and resistance and even if you do find out evenually..... what are you suppose to do after pouring all your resources into some shitty Divine Broad Sword that that isn't even useful in the Catacombs..... seriously..... I've had better luck suicide running into the Catacombs Kamikze'ing the shit of the Necrilomancers than I did going through yet another Chain Backstabbathon with those Skeletons..... I mean if you use a divine weapon they are still going to respawn anyway if you rest or die right ? **** It..... might aswell go in there only killing the Necromancers."

I don't see the problem here. This is normal. I made this mistake multiple times.. It's not like The Broad Sword is your only weapon at that time. By the time I hit the catacombs, I had the Halberd, Claymore, Uchigatana...and more. The divine sword isn't meant to let you win in the Catacombs because it works well against skeletons and the place is infested with them.. You can just go and kill the Necromancers..as you said. What's wrong here... ?

"How are you suppose to know that leveling Resistance is useless.......

How are you suppose to know which of the 6 - 10 weapons of each category is the best one ? Same goes to armor.

How are you suppose to know how the damage Scaling works ?"

You aren't supposed to know.... But find out. And finding out doesn't mean... all the details but just by what you have in your inventory and bottomless box..and what you level up..

By trying the different weapons, you try different move sets and damage models against certain enemies that you are facing in the area.... Just find your preferred damage output and move set. Very Simple..

Damage Scaling ? Hit the bloody enemy with one sword and look at the outcome... Once again, if it's beneficial, continue. If not, try something else...

"Atleast doing that has some sort method...... knowing which weapons are good and which suck has no logical solution....... I mean you going into the game not knowing how the Damage Scaling works but even if you did, trying to get the best weapon by Finding the one with Desired Auxiliary Effect (Such as Bleed) and optimizing for High Base Damage and and Scaling Rank at +0 doesn't give the best results because some weapons upgrade with a steeper curve at each interval better than others and theres know way of knowing that other than by.... yep pouring time and resources into throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks.... "

... Why do you want to know ? If you play the game with a weapon that has a certain desired AE then you'll get to know how it works... but that doesn't mean that by just playing with that one said weapon will answer all the ambiguities of how Auxiliary Effects work. If you want to find out how they work in detail......then yes you are going to have to pour time into experimenting... Normal.. Once again, you make a big deal out of you not being able to find the "win button" through a quick way.

"If I stand at this exact spot and hit that knight with this arrow then he will get stuck in the geometry then I can just kill him with Fireballs from a safe distance."

..... You are making it sound like Dark Souls is the only game that has these type of situations.

I'll give you examples in other games too...

- Crawmerax The Invincible (Borderlands)

- Voracidous The Invincible ( Borderlands 2) ( I've actually killed Crawmerax and Voracidous by using methods similar to your example)

- Destiny has quite a few.

- DMC has multiple scenarios where the multiple bosses end up being invincible.

There are many more. ... You can choose wether or not you want to use them.

Also Blocking, Dodging works. But they aren't the only things at your disposal. ???

Auto-Lock was never supposed to work in any situation. Why can't you see that it's not a mistake that it doesn't work in any situation ?

On the Bed of Chaos, I think that boss was a mistake... or rather terrible design with bad ideas in mind.

For me it was the drab lifeless enviornment that killed DS for me, idk I guess grim games bore me

The first souls game you play is the hardest. Bloodborne was my 4th, so i was pretty used to the gameplay and cruised through. I remember giving up on dark souls 1 for a few days because I couldn't beat the 2nd boss

I am so late to the Bloodborne party but i only got this 2 days ago. I love the Souls series, played DS1 a lot, didnt get too far in DS2 and recently completed DS3.

Bloodborne is better in my opinion, fast paced and frantic. The level design is beautiful, with just a bit of exploration you open up shortcuts to any area of the game.

The first boss was gorgeous and challenging and had me sweating a little, but 5 tries in I was almost defeating him. Note: anyone that makes out they have to trek 20 mins back to the boss -- What are you doing? It is a 15 second run from the Lamp!!

Father Gascoigne went down at the second attempt. first try was down to Werewolf form. I have 2 hours of play time, dies about 10 times and 7 of those down to the 1st two bosses.

Bloodborne is not easy, but if you are patient and learn how to parry, which I find easier than Dark Souls, you will be fine.

I love the difficulty if these games, as they force you to consider what you are doing, progress slowly, look round corners, play aggresively but with strategy, learn quickly and all the time soak up this great atmosphere.

The frustration in Bloodborne is something I live for. Eager to prove myself of being able to beat a difficult boss. And when I need a break, I run round the early levels wrecklessly destroying everything in my path - proving myself to have improved considerably, reminding myself it is just perseverance.

And no, I don't mind grinding. I spent 1467 hours on Disgaea: DHD ... but then Bloodborne / Souls isnt a grind. I rarely remember to upgrade armour / weapons as any enemy can eventually beaten no matter how naked you are.

@amyh7292:

first thing first, saying you are good at video games does not make you good at video games.

enemies telegraph every attack, and gives audio clues, they scream "im going to do this now", the two first areas in particular gives you large windows for counters and tries to teach you how to play.

the "bad" checkpoint system is you not finding shortcuts and figuring out the level design, and thats astounding cause it`s pretty simple, progress - open shortcut - progress - open shortcut close to boss.

"clunky controls"

i don`t get it, people play this game without getting hit... how can the controls be clunky if you can avoid the "hard enemies" all the time?

you might be good at some games, but you have a problem recognizing patterns if you cant get past central yarnham.

Bloodborne is a nice game so that is normal. And all the Souls series. :) I hope to see a Bloodborne 2 next year