When can we notice the diff between Blu-ray and DVD-9?

I mean seriously, these next-gen games can fit on the same disc as those from prev gens. When do you guys think that the capacity of the blu-ray will allow developers to make superb games with much more content than those on DVD-9s.

Mass effect, Bioshock all those really nice looking games have a limit don't they? Where's the point where compressing it isn't enough and developers have to cut short a lot of content?

Take a look at my post titled Resistance used 17gigs.

I mean seriously, these next-gen games can fit on the same disc as those from prev gens. When do you guys think that the capacity of the blu-ray will allow developers to make superb games with much more content than those on DVD-9s.

Mass effect, Bioshock all those really nice looking games have a limit don't they? Where's the point where compressing it isn't enough and developers have to cut short a lot of content?

junk56

The thing that will really show off the differences between DVD9 and Blu-ray is that unlike DVD9 games the Blu-ray games can run content off the disc uncompressed. That means that it can look sharper and the sound quality will be high. Also, games that don't have to be uncompressed by the hardware will also load faster.

more multiplayer maps on BR disc...and you even don't have to pay more to download them...

Best Cut-scene quality...

UNcharted has no load times whatsoever because everything is streamed straight from the disc. This is only possible with Blu-Ray, due to the extra storage required.

[QUOTE="junk56"]

I mean seriously, these next-gen games can fit on the same disc as those from prev gens. When do you guys think that the capacity of the blu-ray will allow developers to make superb games with much more content than those on DVD-9s.

Mass effect, Bioshock all those really nice looking games have a limit don't they? Where's the point where compressing it isn't enough and developers have to cut short a lot of content?

-oG-ShAdY

The thing that will really show off the differences between DVD9 and Blu-ray is that unlike DVD9 games the Blu-ray games can run content off the disc uncompressed. That means that it can look sharper and the sound quality will be high. Also, games that don't have to be uncompressed by the hardware will also load faster.

Actually, that's not true at all.

Game data is compressed, yes, to conserve space, but also because the HDD can de-compress game data far quicker than the 2x blu-ray drive (or 12x DVD drive, for that matter). That's why Oblivion pre-loaded 4GBs of data onto the HDD. And it's why PC games ship on DVD9s, but still load themselves onto the HDD.

Saying that hardware de-compression takes longer proves you don't know how games run.

On Topic: DVD9 and Blu-ray are just storage mediums. The only time you'll truly notice a difference is when a game ships on 2 DVD9s for the x360 and one BR disc for the PS3.

DVD= A good qaulity for any movie to see. Blue Ray + HDTV= The qaulity is so above all, it makes the movie stars ugly. Rengoku2TSTH

He was talking about the extra storage being utilized for games, not the difference between movies,

[QUOTE="Rengoku2TSTH"]DVD= A good qaulity for any movie to see. Blue Ray + HDTV= The qaulity is so above all, it makes the movie stars ugly. TimothyB

He was talking about the extra storage being utilized for games, not the difference between movies,

First differences are Stranglehold and Darkness. If you don't know what the difference is go ask somebody. De_Bears

Exactly...

People saythe extra contentdoesn't matter right now, but it will slowly and surely become standard pretty soon.

First differences are Stranglehold and Darkness. If you don't know what the difference is go ask somebody. De_Bears

Dang, beat me to Stranglehold, didn't realize about the Darkness. I do know (at least from what I've heard/seen) that the Special Editionof Stranglehold (PS3 exclusive)will contain both the game and a movie (Hard Boiled, the prequel of sorts to the game) on the same disc. Than it will become obvious:D

[QUOTE="De_Bears"]First differences are Stranglehold and Darkness. If you don't know what the difference is go ask somebody. el_rika

Exactly...

People saythe extra contentdoesn't matter right now, but it will slowly and surely become standard pretty soon.

it will have to be a ps3 exlusive that does it. resistance did a little. but when we start to see games like heavenly sword and mgs4 coming out they will probably be around the mid 20gb's. games coming out at the end of '08 will probably be around 35G.

[QUOTE="-oG-ShAdY"]

[QUOTE="junk56"]

I mean seriously, these next-gen games can fit on the same disc as those from prev gens. When do you guys think that the capacity of the blu-ray will allow developers to make superb games with much more content than those on DVD-9s.

Mass effect, Bioshock all those really nice looking games have a limit don't they? Where's the point where compressing it isn't enough and developers have to cut short a lot of content?

LosDaddie

The thing that will really show off the differences between DVD9 and Blu-ray is that unlike DVD9 games the Blu-ray games can run content off the disc uncompressed. That means that it can look sharper and the sound quality will be high. Also, games that don't have to be uncompressed by the hardware will also load faster.

Actually, that's not true at all.

Game data is compressed, yes, to conserve space, but also because the HDD can de-compress game data far quicker than the 2x blu-ray drive (or 12x DVD drive, for that matter). That's why Oblivion pre-loaded 4GBs of data onto the HDD. And it's why PC games ship on DVD9s, but still load themselves onto the HDD.

Saying that hardware de-compression takes longer proves you don't know how games run.

On Topic: DVD9 and Blu-ray are just storage mediums. The only time you'll truly notice a difference is when a game ships on 2 DVD9s for the x360 and one BR disc for the PS3.

I'm sorry if I misspoke about any of the technogagetry of the DVD9 and Blu-ray. But I was being serious about compression differences between the two. I believe that Uncharted is completely uncompressed and streams from the disc. That means no load times. Can't do that with a DVD9 it won't fit. DVD9 holds what 4.5 GBs? And Blu-ray holds 25GB per layer.

we wont see a real difference between bu-ray and dvd9 untill the gen is almost over and were ready to move on to the ps4 and nextbox

I'm sorry if I misspoke about any of the technogagetry of the DVD9 and Blu-ray. But I was being serious about compression differences between the two. I believe that Uncharted is completely uncompressed and streams from the disc. That means no load times. Can't do that with a DVD9 it won't fit. DVD9 holds what 4.5 GBs? And Blu-ray holds 25GB per layer.-oG-ShAdY

The only streaming you're likely to see uncompressed is background audio and full motion video.

[QUOTE="-oG-ShAdY"]

[QUOTE="junk56"]

I mean seriously, these next-gen games can fit on the same disc as those from prev gens. When do you guys think that the capacity of the blu-ray will allow developers to make superb games with much more content than those on DVD-9s.

Mass effect, Bioshock all those really nice looking games have a limit don't they? Where's the point where compressing it isn't enough and developers have to cut short a lot of content?

LosDaddie

The thing that will really show off the differences between DVD9 and Blu-ray is that unlike DVD9 games the Blu-ray games can run content off the disc uncompressed. That means that it can look sharper and the sound quality will be high. Also, games that don't have to be uncompressed by the hardware will also load faster.

Actually, that's not true at all.

Game data is compressed, yes, to conserve space, but also because the HDD can de-compress game data far quicker than the 2x blu-ray drive (or 12x DVD drive, for that matter). That's why Oblivion pre-loaded 4GBs of data onto the HDD. And it's why PC games ship on DVD9s, but still load themselves onto the HDD.

Saying that hardware de-compression takes longer proves you don't know how games run.

On Topic: DVD9 and Blu-ray are just storage mediums. The only time you'll truly notice a difference is when a game ships on 2 DVD9s for the x360 and one BR disc for the PS3.

so we'll never see games on the 360 that are shorter and less in quality because they have limited room? i mean, you're fitting mass effect on the same disc as knights of the old republic. There has to be some downside to that compared to having 25 gb of room.

Will games be more limited in textures, size and data in the future because of this dvd9 limitation?

[QUOTE="LosDaddie"][QUOTE="-oG-ShAdY"]

[QUOTE="junk56"]

I mean seriously, these next-gen games can fit on the same disc as those from prev gens. When do you guys think that the capacity of the blu-ray will allow developers to make superb games with much more content than those on DVD-9s.

Mass effect, Bioshock all those really nice looking games have a limit don't they? Where's the point where compressing it isn't enough and developers have to cut short a lot of content?

junk56

The thing that will really show off the differences between DVD9 and Blu-ray is that unlike DVD9 games the Blu-ray games can run content off the disc uncompressed. That means that it can look sharper and the sound quality will be high. Also, games that don't have to be uncompressed by the hardware will also load faster.

Actually, that's not true at all.

Game data is compressed, yes, to conserve space, but also because the HDD can de-compress game data far quicker than the 2x blu-ray drive (or 12x DVD drive, for that matter). That's why Oblivion pre-loaded 4GBs of data onto the HDD. And it's why PC games ship on DVD9s, but still load themselves onto the HDD.

Saying that hardware de-compression takes longer proves you don't know how games run.

On Topic: DVD9 and Blu-ray are just storage mediums. The only time you'll truly notice a difference is when a game ships on 2 DVD9s for the x360 and one BR disc for the PS3.

so we'll never see games on the 360 that are shorter and less in quality because they have limited room? i mean, you're fitting mass effect on the same disc as knights of the old republic. There has to be some downside to that compared to having 25 gb of room.

Will games be more limited in textures, size and data in the future because of this dvd9 limitation?

Since I'm wrong no matter what I say. I'm going to say "yes" anyway. You are right. More space equals more game content. Period.

[QUOTE="LosDaddie"][QUOTE="-oG-ShAdY"]

[QUOTE="junk56"]

I mean seriously, these next-gen games can fit on the same disc as those from prev gens. When do you guys think that the capacity of the blu-ray will allow developers to make superb games with much more content than those on DVD-9s.

Mass effect, Bioshock all those really nice looking games have a limit don't they? Where's the point where compressing it isn't enough and developers have to cut short a lot of content?

-oG-ShAdY

The thing that will really show off the differences between DVD9 and Blu-ray is that unlike DVD9 games the Blu-ray games can run content off the disc uncompressed. That means that it can look sharper and the sound quality will be high. Also, games that don't have to be uncompressed by the hardware will also load faster.

Actually, that's not true at all.

Game data is compressed, yes, to conserve space, but also because the HDD can de-compress game data far quicker than the 2x blu-ray drive (or 12x DVD drive, for that matter). That's why Oblivion pre-loaded 4GBs of data onto the HDD. And it's why PC games ship on DVD9s, but still load themselves onto the HDD.

Saying that hardware de-compression takes longer proves you don't know how games run.

On Topic: DVD9 and Blu-ray are just storage mediums. The only time you'll truly notice a difference is when a game ships on 2 DVD9s for the x360 and one BR disc for the PS3.

I'm sorry if I misspoke about any of the technogagetry of the DVD9 and Blu-ray. But I was being serious about compression differences between the two. I believe that Uncharted is completely uncompressed and streams from the disc. That means no load times. Can't do that with a DVD9 it won't fit. DVD9 holds what 4.5 GBs? And Blu-ray holds 25GB per layer.

DVD9 has 9gb of space, and yes dvd can stream from the disc instead of having loading time's.

GTA4 will not have any load time's in game just like uncharted the only load time you will see on gta4 on a dvd9 disc will be at the start after the game will stream all the data from the disc while ingame.

it will have to be a ps3 exlusive that does it. resistance did a little. but when we start to see games like heavenly sword and mgs4 coming out they will probably be around the mid 20gb's. games coming out at the end of '08 will probably be around 35G.

FlaminUmpalumpa

All ps3 game's use 25gb blu-ray discs, although sony plan to up the limit to a 50gb blu-ray disc next year.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=68761

The only real difference a blu-ray disc will ever mean to game's is one day when texture's/graphic's/cut-scene's/sound all improve vastly over game's like gears of war/mass effect/bioshock/assasians creed etc etc blu-ray will be able to fit all this content on one blu-ray disc whileother console's will have to use multiple discs.

But as of this year and nextall thegreat looking multi-platform game's likeassasian's creed,dark sector,resident evil 5 etc will all fit on a dvd9 disc.

Personally i believe disc space will mean nothing other than one console will have to use multiple discs ifit is needed this generation.

And again personally i think the hardware will be the factor that makes the difference's between oneconsole having the superior graphics/AI etc.

As you can see most people speaking negatively of blu ray in here have xbox stuff all in there signatures and stuff, i dont see why its so hard to admit blu ray is better then dvd9, it is, it is a FACT, so get over yourself and i dont care if you no this no that, who is going to believe you? their are professionals who state these things yet you guys will disagree? yah right, cmon, blu ray clearly is better, so like i was saying, you can say no thats not true, no its not like that, whatever you want, the bottom line is its better, but by how much?...apparently thats up to the individual people to put into their head but whether you believe its just less discs or a whole lot more its BETTER by a little or by a lotJordanKid

I agree with you. In the next year we will see a big difference in the two, both data performance wise and storage.

As you can see most people speaking negatively of blu ray in here have xbox stuff all in there signatures and stuff, i dont see why its so hard to admit blu ray is better then dvd9, it is, it is a FACT, so get over yourself and i dont care if you no this no that, who is going to believe you? their are professionals who state these things yet you guys will disagree? yah right, cmon, blu ray clearly is better, so like i was saying, you can say no thats not true, no its not like that, whatever you want, the bottom line is its better, but by how much?...apparently thats up to the individual people to put into their head but whether you believe its just less discs or a whole lot more its BETTER by a little or by a lotJordanKid

"As you can see most people speaking negatively of blu ray in here have xbox stuff all in there signatures and stuff"

I am not speaking negatively of blu-ray i am just stating my opinion, just because i own an xbox 360 doesnt mean i am going to put down another system unless i think them negative remarks are my opinion, i have negative opinions about 360 and wii, i also own a ps1/ps2/wii/gaming pc/nintendo ds/mega-drive/snes/amiga 600+/nintendo 64 and a spectrum zx.

And i never once said dvd9 is better than blu-ray, and if you read my comments properly it is clear i am of the opinion the blu-ray is a much better multi-media storage disc.

But thats it, blu-ray is a storage device for multimedia content like games and movies, there is not some special dye on blu-ray disc that will make hd graphics better, there is just more space which is needed for hd content like movies but so far it's not essential for a disc that size for gaming.

If a multi-platform game comes out thatneeds 15gb of spaceit will all fit on one blu-ray where as other console's will have to put that content on two dvd9 disc's.

Will that game look better or play better because of the blu-ray disc, no it will look and play better because of the hardware and/or how the developer's better used the power of that said console.

The only differnece the disc will make is when im playing on ps3 i will be able to put one disc in the drive and play that full game without interuption where as on another platform that uses dvd9 i would have to stop and insert a second disc to continue.

A minor inconveince which makes blu-ray disc better for gaming.

I have loved all sony console's and if i added which console i played the most over my lifetime it would be sony console's so dont act like i am bringing down sony or blu-ray just because i didnt say "yeah blu-ray is da bomb" and i have othe things in my sig.

The point being i speak my opinion no matter what, this is because i am not a fanboy of one console i am a fanboy of games.

[QUOTE="JordanKid"]As you can see most people speaking negatively of blu ray in here have xbox stuff all in there signatures and stuff, i dont see why its so hard to admit blu ray is better then dvd9, it is, it is a FACT, so get over yourself and i dont care if you no this no that, who is going to believe you? their are professionals who state these things yet you guys will disagree? yah right, cmon, blu ray clearly is better, so like i was saying, you can say no thats not true, no its not like that, whatever you want, the bottom line is its better, but by how much?...apparently thats up to the individual people to put into their head but whether you believe its just less discs or a whole lot more its BETTER by a little or by a lotshadystxxx

"As you can see most people speaking negatively of blu ray in here have xbox stuff all in there signatures and stuff"

I am not speaking negatively of blu-ray i am just stating my opinion, just because i own an xbox 360 doesnt mean i am going to put down another system unless i think them negative remarks are my opinion, i have negative opinions about 360 and wii, i also own a ps1/ps2/wii/gaming pc/nintendo ds/mega-drive/snes/amiga 600+/nintendo 64 and a spectrum zx.

And i never once said dvd9 is better than blu-ray, and if you read my comments properly it is clear i am of the opinion the blu-ray is a much better multi-media storage disc.

But thats it, blu-ray is a storage device for multimedia content like games and movies, there is not some special dye on blu-ray disc that will make hd graphics better, there is just more space which is needed for hd content like movies but so far it's not essential for a disc that size for gaming.

If a multi-platform game comes out thatneeds 15gb of spaceit will all fit on one blu-ray where as other console's will have to put that content on two dvd9 disc's.

Will that game look better or play better because of the blu-ray disc, no it will look and play better because of the hardware and/or how the developer's better used the power of that said console.

The only differnece the disc will make is when im playing on ps3 i will be able to put one disc in the drive and play that full game without interuption where as on another platform that uses dvd9 i would have to stop and insert a second disc to continue.

A minor inconveince which makes blu-ray disc better for gaming.

I have loved all sony console's and if i added which console i played the most over my lifetime it would be sony console's so dont act like i am bringing down sony or blu-ray just because i didnt say "yeah blu-ray is da bomb" and i have othe things in my sig.

The point being i speak my opinion no matter what, this is because i am not a fanboy of one console i am a fanboy of games.

Sir, you're spouting more than a few misconceptions. Uncharted Drake's Fortune developer Naughty Dog said that they are simultaneously streaming everything, from audio, level data, textures, animations, character models, everything, from the Blu Ray disc and HDD. This eliminates loading screens and allows them to make "maximum efficient use of available memory."

That is a quantifiable difference between Blu Ray and DVD. One provides for streaming content in order to remove load screens entirely. This is a product of the additional storage space, they have the ability to stream all this content. According to Naughty Dog, the demo will not fit on one disc.

In addition, as it has been discussed, FMVs and audio can be placed uncompressed (read, higher quality) on the disc if desired.

Also, games that are not linear, but open ended, will not have the luxury of simply shipping on two discs. If you have a multiplayer only game and it takes up 15 gigs due to streaming content, how are you going to fit it on a DVD-9?

Additionally, DVD is 4.5 GB per layer (9 GB dual layer DVD) and Blu Ray is 25 GB per layer (50 GB dual layer). So that statement is true.

Additionally, it should be noted that only a little over 7 gigs is available for the developer on a DVD-9 disc on the Xbox 360.

[QUOTE="junk56"]

I mean seriously, these next-gen games can fit on the same disc as those from prev gens. When do you guys think that the capacity of the blu-ray will allow developers to make superb games with much more content than those on DVD-9s.

Mass effect, Bioshock all those really nice looking games have a limit don't they? Where's the point where compressing it isn't enough and developers have to cut short a lot of content?

-oG-ShAdY

The thing that will really show off the differences between DVD9 and Blu-ray is that unlike DVD9 games the Blu-ray games can run content off the disc uncompressed. That means that it can look sharper and the sound quality will be high. Also, games that don't have to be uncompressed by the hardware will also load faster.

But so far loading times on the PS3 have been slower than the 360 :|

Blue Dragon shipped on 3 disks when it was released in Japan on the XBOX 360.

As for will we notice the difference, I don't think so. As others have stated, games like Mass Effect, Bioshockand Oblivion are being fitted fine on one disk. I think I remember reading somewhere that Oblivion on the 360 with compression used only 5.5 GB. So I don't think it'll be much of an issue. And even if I have to get off the couch and switch disks, I don't see what the big deal is. I still like the idea of saying blu-ray has more than 5x the storage capacity. For games, I don't think it's of any use though.

Blue Dragon shipped on 3 disks when it was released in Japan on the XBOX 360.

As for will we notice the difference, I don't think so. As others have stated, games like Mass Effect, Bioshockand Oblivion are being fitted fine on one disk. I think I remember reading somewhere that Oblivion on the 360 with compression used only 5.5 GB. So I don't think it'll be much of an issue. And even if I have to get off the couch and switch disks, I don't see what the big deal is. I still like the idea of saying blu-ray has more than 5x the storage capacity. For games, I don't think it's of any use though.

HeadSawed

well thats what peopel said when the ps2 was released. why would u use dvd when games can fit on a cd? Is the reason why gears of war is so short an example of limited content being able to be put in a dvd9? i mean, next gen games require 10x more content like textures, audio AI and all that crap so i seriously don't understand how future games can be able to be put on a dvd-9.

LISTEN to Resistance on a good set-up.jshigashi

Well if a DVD game takesabout 1-2 years to make and blu rays have 5x the capacity then doesn't it mean that they will take around 5-10 years to make?! Maybe all the games to use up a whole blu ray disc are still in the making and won't come out for a few more years... I thought Resistance used almost a whole blu ray but I don't think they compressed anything or something and that's why it's average length. But hey, I just pulled all of that directly out of my ass.wallpaper42

well resistance is 17 gigs and it only took a year to make :D

[QUOTE="wallpaper42"]Well if a DVD game takesabout 1-2 years to make and blu rays have 5x the capacity then doesn't it mean that they will take around 5-10 years to make?! Maybe all the games to use up a whole blu ray disc are still in the making and won't come out for a few more years... I thought Resistance used almost a whole blu ray but I don't think they compressed anything or something and that's why it's average length. But hey, I just pulled all of that directly out of my ass.dragon_1111

well resistance is 17 gigs and it only took a year to make :D

That 17 gigs, is that uncompressed or compressed, please source

[QUOTE="dragon_1111"]

[QUOTE="wallpaper42"]Well if a DVD game takesabout 1-2 years to make and blu rays have 5x the capacity then doesn't it mean that they will take around 5-10 years to make?! Maybe all the games to use up a whole blu ray disc are still in the making and won't come out for a few more years... I thought Resistance used almost a whole blu ray but I don't think they compressed anything or something and that's why it's average length. But hey, I just pulled all of that directly out of my ass.TimothyB

well resistance is 17 gigs and it only took a year to make :D

That 17 gigs, is that uncompressed or compressed, please source

Considering the load times... I'm going to say compressed.

Would you all please read what this guy had to say. He made a lot of good points that people just overlooked and continued to ask questions about. He answered many of the questions below his original comment before many of you asked them. I've highlighted the important stuff.

[QUOTE="shadystxxx"]

[QUOTE="JordanKid"]As you can see most people speaking negatively of blu ray in here have xbox stuff all in there signatures and stuff, i dont see why its so hard to admit blu ray is better then dvd9, it is, it is a FACT, so get over yourself and i dont care if you no this no that, who is going to believe you? their are professionals who state these things yet you guys will disagree? yah right, cmon, blu ray clearly is better, so like i was saying, you can say no thats not true, no its not like that, whatever you want, the bottom line is its better, but by how much?...apparently thats up to the individual people to put into their head but whether you believe its just less discs or a whole lot more its BETTER by a little or by a lotRedfingers

"As you can see most people speaking negatively of blu ray in here have xbox stuff all in there signatures and stuff"

I am not speaking negatively of blu-ray i am just stating my opinion, just because i own an xbox 360 doesnt mean i am going to put down another system unless i think them negative remarks are my opinion, i have negative opinions about 360 and wii, i also own a ps1/ps2/wii/gaming pc/nintendo ds/mega-drive/snes/amiga 600+/nintendo 64 and a spectrum zx.

And i never once said dvd9 is better than blu-ray, and if you read my comments properly it is clear i am of the opinion the blu-ray is a much better multi-media storage disc.

But thats it, blu-ray is a storage device for multimedia content like games and movies, there is not some special dye on blu-ray disc that will make hd graphics better, there is just more space which is needed for hd content like movies but so far it's not essential for a disc that size for gaming.

If a multi-platform game comes out thatneeds 15gb of spaceit will all fit on one blu-ray where as other console's will have to put that content on two dvd9 disc's.

Will that game look better or play better because of the blu-ray disc, no it will look and play better because of the hardware and/or how the developer's better used the power of that said console.

The only differnece the disc will make is when im playing on ps3 i will be able to put one disc in the drive and play that full game without interuption where as on another platform that uses dvd9 i would have to stop and insert a second disc to continue.

A minor inconveince which makes blu-ray disc better for gaming.

I have loved all sony console's and if i added which console i played the most over my lifetime it would be sony console's so dont act like i am bringing down sony or blu-ray just because i didnt say "yeah blu-ray is da bomb" and i have othe things in my sig.

The point being i speak my opinion no matter what, this is because i am not a fanboy of one console i am a fanboy of games.

Sir, you're spouting more than a few misconceptions. Uncharted Drake's Fortune developer Naughty Dog said that they are simultaneously streaming everything, from audio, level data, textures, animations, character models, everything, from the Blu Ray disc and HDD. This eliminates loading screens and allows them to make "maximum efficient use of available memory."

That is a quantifiable difference between Blu Ray and DVD. One provides for streaming content in order to remove load screens entirely. This is a product of the additional storage space, they have the ability to stream all this content. According to Naughty Dog, the demo will not fit on one disc.

In addition, as it has been discussed, FMVs and audio can be placed uncompressed (read, higher quality) on the disc if desired.

Also, games that are not linear, but open ended, will not have the luxury of simply shipping on two discs. If you have a multiplayer only game and it takes up 15 gigs due to streaming content, how are you going to fit it on a DVD-9?