Windows 7, 8.1 or 10 for gaming?

  • 98 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for Mortalmaster123
Edited 3 years, 7 months ago

Poll: Windows 7, 8.1 or 10 for gaming? (80 votes)

Windows 7 36%
Windows 8.1 10%
Windows 10 53%

Wonder what people think is the best to have in 2015 moving into 2016 for gaming. I'm currently on windows 7 and am considering upgrading to either 8.1 or 10 if its better for gaming performance.

Avatar image for deactivated-5bda06edf37ee
#51 Edited by deactivated-5bda06edf37ee (4675 posts) -

@klunt_bumskrint said:

Absolutely no reason to not have Windows 10

This. When it comes to gaming, that is.

I still need to keep my Win7 installed, since i have some licenses for older audio and 3D software, wich don't have support for Win10. Updating them is damn expensive...

You would be seeing more DX12 games in 2016, so you'd want to have Win10.

Avatar image for skipper847
#52 Edited by skipper847 (7322 posts) -

Windows 10 pro for me. The only problem is older things like Track IR don't work as it have conflicts.

Avatar image for gcfreak898
#53 Posted by gcfreak898 (1991 posts) -

Yeah, Windows 10 might have all the bells and whistles that 7 doesn't have. But, at the end of the day I can run games you can't run in Windows 10 because I have Windows 7 Pro.

Avatar image for FelipeInside
#54 Posted by FelipeInside (28548 posts) -

@gcfreak898 said:

Yeah, Windows 10 might have all the bells and whistles that 7 doesn't have. But, at the end of the day I can run games you can't run in Windows 10 because I have Windows 7 Pro.

Really old games are the only ones that have problems on Win10. Win7 also has issues with old games so it's a 50/50 depending on which titles you want to run.

Avatar image for mighty-lu-bu
#55 Posted by Mighty-Lu-Bu (2970 posts) -

@Berserker1_5: Windows 7 Ultimate is a waste of money- Windows 7 ultimate is just Windows 7 Enterprise, but for consumers (as opposed to businesses), chances are you won't use half of the features. Best Windows 7 is Pro because like I said the few added features in Ultimate do not justify the cost.

Also where is everyone getting this games don't work in Windows 10 crap? For games that are really old (over 15 years old) you might have some issues, but who is really playing games that are that old? Oldest game I have that works fine is probably Morrowind (2002) and it works fine ( I can also run Star Wars Galaxies fine). I will have to delve deep into my library to see if I can find anything older, but those games are pretty old. Plus people need to realize that Microsoft is adding support for older games and like always if you know what you are doing, there is always a way to get a game to work.

Everyone said I would never get Fallout 3 to work with Windows 10 and I have successfully ran a heavily modded Fallout 3 without any issues.

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#56 Edited by jun_aka_pekto (25253 posts) -
@Mighty-Lu-Bu said:

@Berserker1_5:

Also where is everyone getting this games don't work in Windows 10 crap? For games that are really old (over 15 years old) you might have some issues, but who is really playing games that are that old? Oldest game I have that works fine is probably Morrowind (2002) and it works fine ( I can also run Star Wars Galaxies fine).

I have a number of disc-based, 32-bit games that refuse to install, run, or both in 64-bit Windows 10: 32-bit Combat Flight Simulator 2, 32-bit Combat Flight Simulator 3, disc-based Crysis, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, Close Combat 2: A Bridge Too far, Deus Ex, plus a few more.

I just dropped back to 64-bit Windows 8.1 which have no problems running those games. I can still upgrade to Windows 10 for free so long as I do so before the end of July 2016.

Edit:

Deus Ex, CFS 2 and 3, and Close Combat 2: A Bridge Too Far all install and run in 32-bit Windows 10. I prefer if they ran in 64-bit Win 10 though. To me, it seems MS designed Windows 10 to be that way.

I currently have 32-bit Windows 10 on my netbook, 64-bit Windows 10 on my laptop. I used to have 64-bit Windows 10 Professional on my gaming PC. I was able to test each one out with regard to games.

Avatar image for gcfreak898
#57 Posted by gcfreak898 (1991 posts) -

@FelipeInside: I'm not rolling that dice with 50/50 chances. I'll stay on Windows 7 until Microsoft stops supporting it.

Avatar image for mighty-lu-bu
#58 Edited by Mighty-Lu-Bu (2970 posts) -

@jun_aka_pekto: I don't know about Dark Messiah, but those other games work in Windows 10. Also I don't know if you are trolling because I thought you said in an older post that those games ran fine in Windows 10? Those games just didn't stop working- anything that works in Windows 8.1 will work in 10. The game compatibility list is a mile long...

Also GCfreak, Microsoft already ended support for Windows 7, (there is no consumer support, only business support). Mainstream support for Windows 7 ended in January of this year.

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#59 Edited by jun_aka_pekto (25253 posts) -

@Mighty-Lu-Bu said:

@jun_aka_pekto: I don't know about Dark Messiah, but those other games work in Windows 10. Also I don't know if you are trolling because I thought you said in an older post that those games ran fine in Windows 10? Those games just didn't stop working- anything that works in Windows 8.1 will work in 10. The game compatibility list is a mile long...

Also GCfreak, Microsoft already ended support for Windows 7, (there is no consumer support, only business support). Mainstream support for Windows 7 ended in January of this year.

The old games like CFS2 and CFS3 ran fine in 32-bit Win 10 but not in 64-bit Win 10. They didn't have problems running in 64-bit Win 8.1.

You need to make the distinction between 32-bit and 64-bit.

Right now, I switched my gaming PC back to 64-bit Win 8.1 Professional so I can play my disc-based Crysis and other Securom games. I still have 64-bit Win 10 on my gaming laptop and 32-bit Win 10 on my netbook.

Avatar image for mighty-lu-bu
#60 Posted by Mighty-Lu-Bu (2970 posts) -

@jun_aka_pekto: Well I can play Crysis fine in Windows 10 64bit so I don't know...

Here is a list of a lot of games that are compatible in Windows 10:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_install/windows-10-games-compatibility-list/a31335a8-730f-4ac9-8c19-7c8c3a664ced

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#61 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (25253 posts) -

@Mighty-Lu-Bu said:

@jun_aka_pekto: Well I can play Crysis fine in Windows 10 64bit so I don't know...

Do you have the disc version of Crysis or the digital version? Mine is the disc version and I think the problem can be traced to the Securom. I also have Warhead which does not use Securom. It runs fine in 64-bit Win 10.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/08/windows-10-wont-run-games-with-securom-drm-says-microsoft-2/

To be fair, Win 10 does make many of my existing games run smoother (eg Far Cry 4). Plus, some games that refused to work in earlier versions of Windows now works in Win 10 with the caveat of some requiring the 32-bit version of Win 10.

Avatar image for FelipeInside
#62 Posted by FelipeInside (28548 posts) -

@jun_aka_pekto said:
@Mighty-Lu-Bu said:

@jun_aka_pekto: Well I can play Crysis fine in Windows 10 64bit so I don't know...

Do you have the disc version of Crysis or the digital version? Mine is the disc version and I think the problem can be traced to the Securom. I also have Warhead which does not use Securom. It runs fine in 64-bit Win 10.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/08/windows-10-wont-run-games-with-securom-drm-says-microsoft-2/

To be fair, Win 10 does make many of my existing games run smoother (eg Far Cry 4). Plus, some games that refused to work in earlier versions of Windows now works in Win 10 with the caveat of some requiring the 32-bit version of Win 10.

It would be lucky if you could get Securom to work on ANY OS, lol.... what a disgusting piece of software.

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#63 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (25253 posts) -

@FelipeInside said:

It would be lucky if you could get Securom to work on ANY OS, lol.... what a disgusting piece of software.

Yeah, I know. I hate Securom too. But, games which used it worked fine until Windows 10. If only I can get a 1 to 1 exchange of my disc-based games for a digital copy, I'd really be happy. But, no such luck.

I'm more worried about older games working only under 32-bit Windows 10. I didn't see that one coming. Totally new to me. Hopefully MS will put out a fix that'll allow those games to work in 64-bit Windows 10.

Avatar image for mighty-lu-bu
#64 Posted by Mighty-Lu-Bu (2970 posts) -

@jun_aka_pekto: Digital :D

Avatar image for FelipeInside
#65 Posted by FelipeInside (28548 posts) -

@jun_aka_pekto said:
@FelipeInside said:

It would be lucky if you could get Securom to work on ANY OS, lol.... what a disgusting piece of software.

Yeah, I know. I hate Securom too. But, games which used it worked fine until Windows 10. If only I can get a 1 to 1 exchange of my disc-based games for a digital copy, I'd really be happy. But, no such luck.

I'm more worried about older games working only under 32-bit Windows 10. I didn't see that one coming. Totally new to me. Hopefully MS will put out a fix that'll allow those games to work in 64-bit Windows 10.

It's obviously because really old games don't know how to read the 64 bit architecture.

Do you play old games though that much?

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#66 Edited by jun_aka_pekto (25253 posts) -

@FelipeInside said:

It's obviously because really old games don't know how to read the 64 bit architecture.

Do you play old games though that much?

Let's see....... Not really that many. But, I hate buying things twice.

Close Combat 2: A Bridge Too Far (1997) - 32-bit Windows 10 only

Far Cry - Securom

IL-2 Pacific Fighters - Securom

Combat Flight Simulator 2 - 32-bit Windows 10 only

Combat Flight Simulator 3 - 32-bit Windows 10 only

Crysis - Securom

World in Conflict - Securom

Bioshock - Securom

Homeworld - Securom

Homeworld 2 - Securom

STALKER: Call of Pripyat - Securom

Dark Messiah of Might and Magic - Securom

Deus Ex - 32-bit Windows 10 only

Unreal Tournament (1999) - 32-bit Windows 10 only

Quake 2 - 32-bit Windows 10 only

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#67 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (25253 posts) -
@Mighty-Lu-Bu said:

@jun_aka_pekto: Digital :D

I'm already doing that with new games. But, my oldies? Nah. ;-)

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#68 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (25253 posts) -

I just reinstalled Rise of Nations: Rise of Legends. It's yet another Securom game that would be problematic in Win 10. But, it works great in Win 8.1.

Avatar image for FelipeInside
#69 Posted by FelipeInside (28548 posts) -

@jun_aka_pekto said:

I just reinstalled Rise of Nations: Rise of Legends. It's yet another Securom game that would be problematic in Win 10. But, it works great in Win 8.1.

They just need to release a Securom driver for Win10 like they did with Win8 then.

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#70 Edited by jun_aka_pekto (25253 posts) -

@FelipeInside said:

They just need to release a Securom driver for Win10 like they did with Win8 then.

So long as MS releases a Securerom driver before August 2016, all will be forgiven. ;)

I want to get back to Win 10. Both Far Cry 4 and GTA V run much smoother on it than on Win 8.1. Strange enough, TW3 runs better on Win 8.1.

Avatar image for Random_Matt
#71 Posted by Random_Matt (4241 posts) -

Win 10 collects data on you 24/7, a feature MS say cannot be disabled. **** MS and **** shitty windows.

Avatar image for FelipeInside
#72 Edited by FelipeInside (28548 posts) -

@jun_aka_pekto said:
@FelipeInside said:

They just need to release a Securom driver for Win10 like they did with Win8 then.

So long as MS releases a Securerom driver before August 2016, all will be forgiven. ;)

I want to get back to Win 10. Both Far Cry 4 and GTA V run much smoother on it than on Win 8.1. Strange enough, TW3 runs better on Win 8.1.

Why before August?

Avatar image for FelipeInside
#73 Posted by FelipeInside (28548 posts) -

@Random_Matt said:

Win 10 collects data on you 24/7, a feature MS say cannot be disabled. **** MS and **** shitty windows.

Can people for one second get educated and stop putting their tin foil hat on?

Here, read this (the WHOLE article, not just the first few lines): http://imgur.com/gallery/oQDnY

Avatar image for JigglyWiggly_
#74 Edited by JigglyWiggly_ (24625 posts) -
@FelipeInside said:
@Random_Matt said:

Win 10 collects data on you 24/7, a feature MS say cannot be disabled. **** MS and **** shitty windows.

Can people for one second get educated and stop putting their tin foil hat on?

Here, read this (the WHOLE article, not just the first few lines): http://imgur.com/gallery/oQDnY

Of course if you uncheck those, they might just check themselves back in.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/3vskcc/windows_10_just_reenabled_everything_from_the/

Avatar image for FelipeInside
#75 Edited by FelipeInside (28548 posts) -

@JigglyWiggly_ said:
@FelipeInside said:
@Random_Matt said:

Win 10 collects data on you 24/7, a feature MS say cannot be disabled. **** MS and **** shitty windows.

Can people for one second get educated and stop putting their tin foil hat on?

Here, read this (the WHOLE article, not just the first few lines): http://imgur.com/gallery/oQDnY

Of course if you uncheck those, they might just check themselves back in.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/3vskcc/windows_10_just_reenabled_everything_from_the/

That's because the November Update is basically like a new install and most options turn back to default. (it even creates a Windows.old folder for the old install).

You can then either:

a) just use one of those paranoid programs and disable everything again

b) not be paranoid and enjoy life more

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#76 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (25253 posts) -

@FelipeInside said:

Why before August?

I'd have to pay for Windows 10. I would feel really stupid if I let it pass.

Avatar image for JigglyWiggly_
#77 Edited by JigglyWiggly_ (24625 posts) -

@FelipeInside said:
@JigglyWiggly_ said:
@FelipeInside said:
@Random_Matt said:

Win 10 collects data on you 24/7, a feature MS say cannot be disabled. **** MS and **** shitty windows.

Can people for one second get educated and stop putting their tin foil hat on?

Here, read this (the WHOLE article, not just the first few lines): http://imgur.com/gallery/oQDnY

Of course if you uncheck those, they might just check themselves back in.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/3vskcc/windows_10_just_reenabled_everything_from_the/

That's because the November Update is basically like a new install and most options turn back to default. (it even creates a Windows.old folder for the old install).

You can then either:

a) just use one of those paranoid programs and disable everything again

b) not be paranoid and enjoy life more

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/3vskcc/windows_10_just_reenabled_everything_from_the/cxqatrt

That comment summed it up pretty well. I don't particularly care about the tracking, but I just want them to screw off.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/3vtm18/apps/cxqqw5s

I'm more concerned about this.

Avatar image for FelipeInside
#79 Posted by FelipeInside (28548 posts) -
@JigglyWiggly_ said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/3vskcc/windows_10_just_reenabled_everything_from_the/cxqatrt

That comment summed it up pretty well. I don't particularly care about the tracking, but I just want them to screw off.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/3vtm18/apps/cxqqw5s

I'm more concerned about this.

OMG some people are ditching Windows because of a setting they can turn off? Geez some humans are dumb.

As for the control panel, that I agree with. The settings screen is nice but doesn't have all the options, and having both in the OS is weird.

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#80 Edited by jun_aka_pekto (25253 posts) -

I re-upgraded back to Windows 10. I prefer the speed improvements on FC4 over Crysis and Securom. In Windows 8.1, I'm lucky to get mid-50's framerates with the Buzzer. Here in Windows 10, it's quite a bit higher...... 93 fps in Windows 10 vs 40 fps in Windows 8.1? Pretty big difference.

Window 10: God Rays = Enhanced with TXAA x 2, Windows 8.1: God Rays = Off with SMAA

Avatar image for FelipeInside
#81 Posted by FelipeInside (28548 posts) -

@jun_aka_pekto said:

I re-upgraded back to Windows 10. I prefer the speed improvements on FC4 over Crysis and Securom. In Windows 8.1, I'm lucky to get mid-50's framerates with the Buzzer. Here in Windows 10, it's quite a bit higher...... 93 fps in Windows 10 vs 40 fps in Windows 8.1? Pretty big difference.

Window 10: God Rays = Enhanced with TXAA x 2, Windows 8.1: God Rays = Off with SMAA

Something wrong there.

I played FC4 on 8.1 without any issues and the performance was above 60fps.

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#82 Edited by jun_aka_pekto (25253 posts) -

@FelipeInside said:

Something wrong there.

I played FC4 on 8.1 without any issues and the performance was above 60fps.

Maybe there was something wrong with the way 8.1 was on my FX-8350. Here is Far Cry 3. With Windows 8.1, I was lucky to get 40 fps when AA was 8x. Now, I'm close to getting 70 fps in Windows 10. I'm also still using a 4GB GTX 770.

Avatar image for FelipeInside
#83 Posted by FelipeInside (28548 posts) -

@jun_aka_pekto said:
@FelipeInside said:

Something wrong there.

I played FC4 on 8.1 without any issues and the performance was above 60fps.

Maybe there was something wrong with the way 8.1 was on my FX-8350. Here is Far Cry 3. With Windows 8.1, I was lucky to get 40 fps when AA was 8x. Now, I'm close to getting 70 fps in Windows 10. I'm also still using a 4GB GTX 770.

Who knows but maybe cause you're using NVIDIA now together with Win10 ??? (Far Cry games are optimized for NVIDIA).

Doesn't matter, happy days :)

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#84 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (25253 posts) -
@FelipeInside said:

Who knows but maybe cause you're using NVIDIA now together with Win10 ??? (Far Cry games are optimized for NVIDIA).

Doesn't matter, happy days :)

I was using the same video card with Win 8.1. Right now, all my recent games feel smoother in Win 10: GTA V and even TW3.

Avatar image for insane_metalist
#85 Posted by insane_metalist (7797 posts) -

@jun_aka_pekto: Those fps improvements are pretty insane... as if you upgraded from 770 to 980/390X lol.

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#86 Edited by jun_aka_pekto (25253 posts) -

@insane_metalist said:

@jun_aka_pekto: Those fps improvements are pretty insane... as if you upgraded from 770 to 980/390X lol.

It's hard to nail down what may have caused the improvements. It could be Windows 10/DX12, graphics drivers, game patches.... There have been plenty of those since I captured the earlier screenshots. Or, maybe something was holding back my PC in Windows 7/8.1.

I'm happy either way. ;-)

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#87 Edited by jun_aka_pekto (25253 posts) -

I have no idea what's going on. I do know earlier this year, I would never have seen 70 fps anywhere in FC4, be it windowed, lowest res, and lowest detail settings with Windows 7 and Windows 8.1.

Now, I'm able to get triple digits with a 4GB GTX 770, no less.

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#88 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (25253 posts) -

For the sake of consistency with other games, I think it's just a glitch with the framerate counter seeing double the real framerates in both Far Cry games. It'll have to do until I can think of something better.

Avatar image for KHAndAnime
#89 Posted by KHAndAnime (17565 posts) -

@jun_aka_pekto said:
@insane_metalist said:

@jun_aka_pekto: Those fps improvements are pretty insane... as if you upgraded from 770 to 980/390X lol.

It's hard to nail down what may have caused the improvements. It could be Windows 10/DX12

I can nail down what's not the cause of the improvements : Windows 10.

Avatar image for insane_metalist
#90 Posted by insane_metalist (7797 posts) -
@KHAndAnime said:
@jun_aka_pekto said:
@insane_metalist said:

@jun_aka_pekto: Those fps improvements are pretty insane... as if you upgraded from 770 to 980/390X lol.

It's hard to nail down what may have caused the improvements. It could be Windows 10/DX12

I can nail down what's not the cause of the improvements : Windows 10.

I only recently upgraded to Windows 10 and haven't played many games (been playing lots of GTA V). I can tell you that GTA V runs a bit smoother for me than it did on Windows 7.

Avatar image for chronogos
#91 Edited by Chronogos (92 posts) -

Windows 8.1. Windows 7 is too old, Windows 10 is too new. Run Windows 8.1 and get qualified for the Windows 10 update so you can download it later. I am surprised so many people voted for Windows 7! Windows 10 would be my close 2nd choice to 8.1. Windows 7, I am glad to quit using for gaming. It was always annoying to run games that would quit randomly so Aero could be disabled. But then if you run in Classic Mode, you don't get all the nice features of Aero so it was a constant switching back and forth between the "Aero" and "Classic" themes for gaming, which thankfully is not a problem in 8.1.

Avatar image for Insanister
#92 Posted by Insanister (2185 posts) -

When I installed the Windows 10 Preview on my ageing laptop, I thought the performance would just be the same, but no, it improved instead. Wonderful. I find it hard to not advise my friends to move to windows 10, because the OS is just so perfect. Everything runs fine, all is to well. Well at least for me. Other than gaming though, it's Linux all the way.

Avatar image for kriggy
#93 Posted by kriggy (1179 posts) -

Windows 10 is the way you wanna go dude

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#94 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (25253 posts) -

@insane_metalist said:

I only recently upgraded to Windows 10 and haven't played many games (been playing lots of GTA V). I can tell you that GTA V runs a bit smoother for me than it did on Windows 7.

MIne's the same. I did the upgrade (vs clean install) from Win 8.1 to Win 10. When I played GTA V, the settings where I used to get 30-45 fps in Win 8.1 were now at 60 fps in Win 10. Naturally, I applied higher settings (MSAA x 2 + FXAA, Ultra where it's present) to bring the frame rates back to the 30-45 fps range.

Avatar image for otrman
#95 Edited by otrman (1 posts) -

@FelipeInside: I am trying to get into gaming and have a real interest in WWII. I have been given a MS Flight Combat Flight Simulator 2 and a Logitech x56 rhino hotas controller. I figured I would just install the software on my Window 7 Pro 64 Bit system. It seemed to install OK but will not launch.

I am not wed to this game but need a simulator that will install on my system. Once I do that I can integrate the Logitech.

Any help greatly appreciated,

Otrman

Avatar image for joannyoung
#96 Posted by JoannYoung (12 posts) -

If you are interested in playing WW2 then get it on the PC. Well according to me Windows 7 is good to play as Windows 8 and 10 are already available with high-end graphics.

Avatar image for Yams1980
#97 Posted by Yams1980 (3511 posts) -

I still stand by what i said 3 years ago. Windows 7 is still the best since all round it works with everything. If you are are gamer that only plays new games, windows 10 is good enough. But there are a lot of problems with windows 10 with older games, i've run into enough problems to avoid using it over windows 10, even though i do have windows 10 in dual boot incase i did need it for something.

Even my favourite version of sweetfx (version 1.4) that uses directx9 injection doesn't work at all with Windows 10. I have to use a less user friendly newer version which i hate because my presets have to be all re-done if I use it. And i use sweetfx injection in almost every single game... making using windows 10 not something i want to do.

The last few years of briefly using windows 10, i can still stand by it and say the same thing with all the headaches I get dealing with windows 10. Unless you got a dx12 game that benefits from it, i see it worthless to use.

I'll be using windows 7 even when updates stop and its totally unsafe to be doing so; i don't care, i'll firewall the crap out of my system and block off every ip address that isn't required instead of using windows 10.

The only problem with windows 7 in 2019, is if you are upgrading your pc to a brand new cpu and motherboard and its intel based; you likely can't find any chipset drivers, so you won't have any onboard USB. So you'd have to get a pci-e USB adapter card to get some usb connections. Not a big deal, but it adds an extra challenge. And you will have to think of a way to install windows 7 without USB and if the motherboard doesn't have ps/2 ports.. then u may have to get creative.

Avatar image for warmblur
#98 Edited by warmblur (2506 posts) -

I'll stay with Windows 7 as long as I can W10 is a mess just last week they had another bad forced windows update.

https://www.dsogaming.com/news/microsoft-confirms-that-windows-10-kb4482887-update-can-degrade-graphics-mouse-performance-in-certain-games/

Avatar image for PredatorRules
#99 Posted by PredatorRules (12446 posts) -

@otrman: 3 years old thread, locked.