Why is Forza only for Windows 10?

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Maxpowers_32

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#1 Maxpowers_32
Member since 2006 • 995 Posts

I'm not a big gamer anymore and don't follow things that closely, so I apologize if this has been answered already. I've gotten into cars and have driven on a real race track a few times so have been playing Grand Turismo 6 on my PS3 and saw that a Forza demo was out for Windows.

When I went to the Windows store I had a tough time navigating it, but think I found the demo called Forza Apex. It's confusing because it says "Xbox Live" on the cover art, but in the description says it's for the PC. Anyway, it says it's only for the Windows 10 anniversary update and I have Windows 7. Don't a lot of people still use Windows 7? I'm not about to change operating systems to play a racing game. Why is it only for Windows 10 and a special edition of 10 at that?

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BassMan

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#2  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 17764 Posts

MS is trying to push everyone on to the latest version of Windows. That is why they are limiting DX 12 and the games that solely use it (Forza) to Win 10.

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FelipeInside

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#3  Edited By FelipeInside
Member since 2003 • 28548 Posts

@Maxpowers_32 said:

I'm not a big gamer anymore and don't follow things that closely, so I apologize if this has been answered already. I've gotten into cars and have driven on a real race track a few times so have been playing Grand Turismo 6 on my PS3 and saw that a Forza demo was out for Windows.

When I went to the Windows store I had a tough time navigating it, but think I found the demo called Forza Apex. It's confusing because it says "Xbox Live" on the cover art, but in the description says it's for the PC. Anyway, it says it's only for the Windows 10 anniversary update and I have Windows 7. Don't a lot of people still use Windows 7? I'm not about to change operating systems to play a racing game. Why is it only for Windows 10 and a special edition of 10 at that?

Because it uses both DirectX12 and is also "Xbox Play Anywhere" title which basically means you purchase it once (on Xbox or PC) and it lets you play both versions. This is only possible on the Win10 architecture.

And it's not a "special" edition of 10, it just needs the latest Service Pack (called Anniversary Pack).

As for changing operating systems, it's up to you. I changed from XP to Win7 to play Just Cause 2.

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madrocketeer

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#4 madrocketeer
Member since 2005 • 10560 Posts

Because the game uses UWP, which is Windows 10 exclusive, is linked to the Xbox app, which is also Windows 10 exclusive, is a DirectX 12 game, which is also Windows 10 exclusive, and has cross-buy, cross-play and play anywhere, which are all Windows 10 exclusive.

Basically, it's because Microsoft say so.

As for the Anniversary update; it's not a special edition, just the latest free update. Microsoft are switching from the base release + service pack model to a rolling update model for their OS.

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Maxpowers_32

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#5  Edited By Maxpowers_32
Member since 2006 • 995 Posts

If you don't care about Xbox support will there be a way to play it with Windows 7 at some point? Will DirectX 12 ever come to Windows 7?

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JigglyWiggly_

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#6  Edited By JigglyWiggly_
Member since 2009 • 24625 Posts

@Maxpowers_32 said:

If you don't care about Xbox support to be a way to play it with Windows 7 at some point? Will DirectX 12 ever come to Windows 7?

Nope.

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GeryGo

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#7 GeryGo  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 12803 Posts

@BassMan said:

MS is trying to push everyone on to the latest version of Windows. That is why they are limiting DX 12 and the games that solely use it (Forza) to Win 10.

+1

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#8  Edited By madrocketeer
Member since 2005 • 10560 Posts

@Maxpowers_32:

DirectX 12? Never. Microsoft want 1 billion Windows 10 devices by 2018, and they are obsessed to the point of insanity about how much they want it. They gave the upgrade away for free for a year. They tried everything from nagging to trickery to outright hiding the button that says "no thanks" to them to get you to upgrade. They've even made Intel and AMD lock Kaby Lake and Zen as Windows 10-only. Microsoft would rip out their left nipples and sacrifice them to Baphomet if it would make you upgrade to Windows 10. DirectX 12 is never, ever in a million years coming to Windows 7.

As for the game itself, also highly unlikely, unless Playground Games pulls a Remedy and jumps off the S.S. Xbox.

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wis3boi

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#9  Edited By wis3boi
Member since 2005 • 32507 Posts

@madrocketeer said:

@Maxpowers_32:

DirectX 12? Never. Microsoft want 1 billion Windows 10 devices by 2018, and they are obsessed to the point of insanity about how much they want it. They gave the upgrade away for free for a year. They tried everything from nagging to trickery to outright hiding the button that says "no thanks" to them to get you to upgrade. They've even made Intel and AMD lock Kaby Lake and Zen as Windows 10-only. Microsoft would rip out their left nipples and sacrifice them to Baphomet if it would make you upgrade to Windows 10. DirectX 12 is never, ever in a million years coming to Windows 7.

As for the game itself, also highly unlikely, unless Playground Games pulls a Remedy and jumps off the S.S. Xbox.

Their methods suck but I understand their desire to have one unified system. Supporting all these older OS versions is a big waste.

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#10  Edited By madrocketeer
Member since 2005 • 10560 Posts

@wis3boi:

As do I. I was merely stating the reality of the situation in a matter-of-fact manner, with a little exaggeration humour at the end for colour. I'm a Windows 10 user myself, and a fairly happy one.

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#11 FelipeInside
Member since 2003 • 28548 Posts

@Maxpowers_32 said:

If you don't care about Xbox support will there be a way to play it with Windows 7 at some point? Will DirectX 12 ever come to Windows 7?

Just upgrade to Win10 if you want to play Forza. It a good OS, works the same as Win7 (even better in most places)

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skipper847

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#12 skipper847
Member since 2006 • 7334 Posts

Even though Quantum break is going on steam, steam is only dx11 where as windows store is dx12.

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#13 madrocketeer
Member since 2005 • 10560 Posts

@skipper847:

There are DirecX 12 games on Steam, like Rise of the Tomb Raider, Ashes of Singularity and Warhammer: Total War.

DirectX 12 is exclusive to Windows 10, not Windows Store.

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#14 skipper847
Member since 2006 • 7334 Posts

@madrocketeer: I seen there removing dx12 from QB on steam and it going to be dx11 game not dx12.

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#15 madrocketeer
Member since 2005 • 10560 Posts
@skipper847 said:

@madrocketeer: I seen there removing dx12 from QB on steam and it going to be dx11 game not dx12.

Right, you were talking about Quantum Break specifically. Not really the topic of the thread, but gotcha.

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deactivated-5bb25e4a41d76

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#16 deactivated-5bb25e4a41d76
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@madrocketeer said:

@wis3boi:

As do I. I was merely stating the reality of the situation in a matter-of-fact manner, with a little exaggeration humour at the end for colour. I'm a Windows 10 user myself, and a fairly happy one.

Same. I love Windows 10.

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#17 Maxpowers_32
Member since 2006 • 995 Posts

@FelipeInside:I have it on my laptop and don't care much for it. By default it's set to spy on you so I have to be careful about privacy setting. Plus it makes it act too much like a phone where it's trying to look for apps when I'm just trying to get to the calculator or use basic functions. I already have a lot of programs installed on my Windows 7 computer and I also don't want to mess with compatibility with some of my other devices.

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urbangamez

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#18 urbangamez
Member since 2010 • 3511 Posts

because ms has to move on from xp, vista, 7, 8 and the old version of 10.

can't keep using valuable human resources and capital to patch and update old os so it can keep up with the latest development in coding and tech, they need to be on the cutting edge of technology with innovation if they want the company to survive.

10 is one the best os that ms has ever made, but its more than a year old, with 8 being the foundation, we should be hearing at this point about windows 12, or version 10.5607

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#19 FelipeInside
Member since 2003 • 28548 Posts

@Maxpowers_32 said:

@FelipeInside:I have it on my laptop and don't care much for it. By default it's set to spy on you so I have to be careful about privacy setting. Plus it makes it act too much like a phone where it's trying to look for apps when I'm just trying to get to the calculator or use basic functions. I already have a lot of programs installed on my Windows 7 computer and I also don't want to mess with compatibility with some of my other devices.

So you're one of those people that thinks Win10 spies on you. Mmmkay.

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#20  Edited By madrocketeer
Member since 2005 • 10560 Posts
@urbangamez said:
10 is one the best os that ms has ever made, but its more than a year old, with 8 being the foundation, we should be hearing at this point about windows 12, or version 10.5607

Again, nope. Microsoft are moving to a rolling free update model, similar to Mac OS X, which means no more paid upgrades + service packs. Microsoft are even talking about Windows 10 being the last version of Windows. Ever. While I wouldn't go that far, I think Windows 11 or whatever it will be called is at least 6 to 10 years away.

For comparison, Mac OS X was released 15 years ago, debuted on x86 11 years ago, and has been going along with no end in sight for so long Apple recently dropped the X altogether and just called it "macOS" - Apple doesn't think there will ever be a "Mac OS XI" or whatever they might call it. I believe Microsoft are gunning for a similar lifetime for Windows 10.

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Yams1980

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#21 Yams1980
Member since 2006 • 2861 Posts

m$ seems to be making all their games forced to windows 10. Recore is another one and i think the Halo game they are putting on PC will also require Win10. Pretty sure Mass Effect 4 will be the same way also.

These tactics of microsoft won't push me into win10 anytime soon. I couldn't care less if i miss out on a few games when i have hundreds of other ones to keep me busy. m$ has so few games i care about so it doesn't effect me, the only one i have some interest in is mass effect but its not enough to buy the game or waste hard drive space on it.

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#22 FelipeInside
Member since 2003 • 28548 Posts

@Yams1980 said:

m$ seems to be making all their games forced to windows 10. Recore is another one and i think the Halo game they are putting on PC will also require Win10. Pretty sure Mass Effect 4 will be the same way also.

These tactics of microsoft won't push me into win10 anytime soon. I couldn't care less if i miss out on a few games when i have hundreds of other ones to keep me busy. m$ has so few games i care about so it doesn't effect me, the only one i have some interest in is mass effect but its not enough to buy the game or waste hard drive space on it.

Mass Effect isn't from Microsoft.

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#23 Yams1980
Member since 2006 • 2861 Posts

@FelipeInside said:
@Yams1980 said:

m$ seems to be making all their games forced to windows 10. Recore is another one and i think the Halo game they are putting on PC will also require Win10. Pretty sure Mass Effect 4 will be the same way also.

These tactics of microsoft won't push me into win10 anytime soon. I couldn't care less if i miss out on a few games when i have hundreds of other ones to keep me busy. m$ has so few games i care about so it doesn't effect me, the only one i have some interest in is mass effect but its not enough to buy the game or waste hard drive space on it.

Mass Effect isn't from Microsoft.

ah right, its EA. I remembered it was one of the evil corporations but i mixed them up. Definitely not buying it now, i dislike EA even more than Microsoft.

Maybe ill get a console in a few years and buy the game used off ebay. Whatever it takes to avoid giving money to EA directly.

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#24  Edited By FelipeInside
Member since 2003 • 28548 Posts

@Yams1980 said:
@FelipeInside said:
@Yams1980 said:

m$ seems to be making all their games forced to windows 10. Recore is another one and i think the Halo game they are putting on PC will also require Win10. Pretty sure Mass Effect 4 will be the same way also.

These tactics of microsoft won't push me into win10 anytime soon. I couldn't care less if i miss out on a few games when i have hundreds of other ones to keep me busy. m$ has so few games i care about so it doesn't effect me, the only one i have some interest in is mass effect but its not enough to buy the game or waste hard drive space on it.

Mass Effect isn't from Microsoft.

ah right, its EA. I remembered it was one of the evil corporations but i mixed them up. Definitely not buying it now, i dislike EA even more than Microsoft.

Maybe ill get a console in a few years and buy the game used off ebay. Whatever it takes to avoid giving money to EA directly.

Actually, it's BioWare. EA just publish it.

If you want to miss out on some great games because you think every company is an evil corporation then that's your loss....

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#25 Toxic-Seahorse
Member since 2012 • 5074 Posts

@FelipeInside said:
@Yams1980 said:
@FelipeInside said:
@Yams1980 said:

m$ seems to be making all their games forced to windows 10. Recore is another one and i think the Halo game they are putting on PC will also require Win10. Pretty sure Mass Effect 4 will be the same way also.

These tactics of microsoft won't push me into win10 anytime soon. I couldn't care less if i miss out on a few games when i have hundreds of other ones to keep me busy. m$ has so few games i care about so it doesn't effect me, the only one i have some interest in is mass effect but its not enough to buy the game or waste hard drive space on it.

Mass Effect isn't from Microsoft.

ah right, its EA. I remembered it was one of the evil corporations but i mixed them up. Definitely not buying it now, i dislike EA even more than Microsoft.

Maybe ill get a console in a few years and buy the game used off ebay. Whatever it takes to avoid giving money to EA directly.

Actually, it's BioWare. EA just publish it.

If you want to miss out on some great games because you think every company is an evil corporation then that's your loss....

EA owns Bioware so it's accurate to say that ME is an EA game.

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#26 FelipeInside
Member since 2003 • 28548 Posts

@Toxic-Seahorse said:

EA owns Bioware so it's accurate to say that ME is an EA game.

Yeah but Bioware still make it, so it's their baby. EA just publish and market it.
To me games like Mass Effect are BioWare games first, can be called an EA game too I guess.

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#27 urbangamez
Member since 2010 • 3511 Posts

@madrocketeer said:
@urbangamez said:
10 is one the best os that ms has ever made, but its more than a year old, with 8 being the foundation, we should be hearing at this point about windows 12, or version 10.5607

Again, nope. Microsoft are moving to a rolling free update model, similar to Mac OS X, which means no more paid upgrades + service packs. Microsoft are even talking about Windows 10 being the last version of Windows. Ever. While I wouldn't go that far, I think Windows 11 or whatever it will be called is at least 6 to 10 years away.

For comparison, Mac OS X was released 15 years ago, debuted on x86 11 years ago, and has been going along with no end in sight for so long Apple recently dropped the X altogether and just called it "macOS" - Apple doesn't think there will ever be a "Mac OS XI" or whatever they might call it. I believe Microsoft are gunning for a similar lifetime for Windows 10.

"or version 10.5607", the current version of 10 is 10.1607

no reason for it to be 6 to 10 years away. all their engineers should be thinking can we design an os with coding that is even better than 10. The development cycle for a new os should be every 3 years, there is a lot of improvement needed with their current products, no time to waste patching and making service packs for old os.

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#28  Edited By madrocketeer
Member since 2005 • 10560 Posts
@urbangamez said:

"or version 10.5607", the current version of 10 is 10.1607

no reason for it to be 6 to 10 years away. all their engineers should be thinking can we design an os with coding that is even better than 10. The development cycle for a new os should be every 3 years, there is a lot of improvement needed with their current products, no time to waste patching and making service packs for old os.

Actually, the current build number is 10.0.14393.222. The next big update is "Redstone 2," current build number 10.0.14936. "10.5607" is most likely years away.

Reason? macOS is currently updated every six months to a year. Google typically releases a new major version of Android every year, with an update or two in between. Ubuntu is updated every six months, with LTS versions every two years. All of these updates are free, Android's stupid OEM lock-ins aside. How are these OSs updated so frequently? Because they are all relatively incremental updates; evolution rather than revolution. This is the model Microsoft are now adopting. There will be no more service packs, and there will be no more technical leaps like that between 3.x to 95/98 to 2000 to XP to Vista to 7 to 8. Microsoft are going to improve their OS, but they will now do so incrementally.

As Microsoft have said, Windows 10 may very well be the last version of Windows ever. While I don't think it's that final, I do understand their idea, and what they're gunning for. You might not agree with it, but that's where we are.

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urbangamez

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#29 urbangamez
Member since 2010 • 3511 Posts

I agree with them not putting forza 3 on windows 7 its time to move on, and soon it will be time to move on from windows 10.

its time to get windows customers and supporters used to the idea of upgrading their windows os, business and government agencies especially, the same way google and apple have no problems getting the majority of their customers upgrading old overpriced devices with newer overpriced devices with similar lower quality app store os.

ms can talk all they want but until the windows phone sells crazy numbers i'd stick to making and selling a great os for a living as always.

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#30 with_teeth26
Member since 2007 • 11511 Posts

I've been testing out the cross-play functionality with FH3, since I'm playing on PC and I have a couple friends playing on Xbox. Honestly, it works super well and is pretty damn cool. I get windows notifications for friends on Xbox sending me messages/liking my activity etc. I was playing co-op with a friend on Xbox last night and it worked great, we connected easily and voice chat was working, minimal lag etc.

I also quite like having games behave like normal windows applications since its incredibly painless to alt-tab, move the game between my monitor/TV (which is hooked up all the time) and alt-enter to return to full screen. I've never seen a game do all this so smoothly before.

Windows store is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Not being able to access game files and run the executable through steam is the only downside I can see, and something that can probably be fixed. I don't get people's obsessive loyalty to Steam, Valve haven't done shit for years and need all the competition they can get. Launching games as windows apps is WAY less intrusive than any other third-party platform since once the game is installed you just type in the name in Cortana and it launches right away, assuming you are logged into Windows 10 with your Microsoft/hotmail account.

I was sceptical about how all this would work but honestly I'm impressed with what MS have done here. They just need to improve the optimization of their games and as I said let people access the game files. This seems much better than GFWL.

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#31 KHAndAnime
Member since 2009 • 17565 Posts

These games forcing people to upgrade are rarely any good anyways. After trying the Win Store out for the first time, I can see why people are really outspoken against it. It's awful. It's not going to rape your mother, but as far as interfaces go, it's pretty much the worst interface anyone could imagine. It's almost unreal, actually.

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#32 with_teeth26
Member since 2007 • 11511 Posts

@KHAndAnime said:

These games forcing people to upgrade are rarely any good anyways. After trying the Win Store out for the first time, I can see why people are really outspoken against it. It's awful. It's not going to rape your mother, but as far as interfaces go, it's pretty much the worst interface anyone could imagine. It's almost unreal, actually.

nah its fine

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#33  Edited By KHAndAnime
Member since 2009 • 17565 Posts

@with_teeth26 said:
@KHAndAnime said:

These games forcing people to upgrade are rarely any good anyways. After trying the Win Store out for the first time, I can see why people are really outspoken against it. It's awful. It's not going to rape your mother, but as far as interfaces go, it's pretty much the worst interface anyone could imagine. It's almost unreal, actually.

nah its fine

I wish it were lol. It's almost cruel how bad it is. Example: if you buy Forza 3 and you don't have the latest Windows update, the download button simply doesn't appear.

That's it. That's their way of saying "You need to upgrade to the latest version of Windows", by simply making it a mystery of how to download the game.

Keep in mind, there's no where on the game's page that indicates you require strictly the latest version of Windows to play the game.

If that's your idea of fine, then you have offensively low standards. Probly wipe your rear with your hand and think that's fine too

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#34 with_teeth26
Member since 2007 • 11511 Posts

@KHAndAnime said:
@with_teeth26 said:
@KHAndAnime said:

These games forcing people to upgrade are rarely any good anyways. After trying the Win Store out for the first time, I can see why people are really outspoken against it. It's awful. It's not going to rape your mother, but as far as interfaces go, it's pretty much the worst interface anyone could imagine. It's almost unreal, actually.

nah its fine

I wish it were lol. It's almost cruel how bad it is. Example: if you buy Forza 3 and you don't have the latest Windows update, the download button simply doesn't appear.

That's it. That's their way of saying "You need to upgrade to the latest version of Windows", by simply making it a mystery of how to download the game.

Keep in mind, there's no where on the game's page that indicates you require strictly the latest version of Windows to play the game.

If that's your idea of fine, then you have offensively low standards. Probly wipe your rear with your hand and think that's fine too

A while ago when a friend gave me a PC-code for QB I'm pretty sure the store told me which version of Windows I needed to play it. for FH3 I knew about needing the anniversary update before hand and installed it before trying to buy the game so I can't speak to more recent experiences.

it also says in the system requirements for the game on the store what version of windows you need and then checks to see if you have it. I will concede its weird the system requirements are only on the actual game's page, not the pages where you actually buy the game (standard edition/ultimate edition etc.). Its also weird that you don't see your download speed. Even Uplay has that shit. But, the actual process of buying and installing the game is pretty painless, and once its installed, you don't need to touch the store or xbox interfaces at all. Its like launching a game in the pre-Steam era (assuming you log into windows with your MS account).

I would put these shortcomings under the "minor inconvenience" column. Not the "lets go bitch about it on the internet as if MS is attacking our families" column. Not saying you are guilty of that but a lot of people are. IMO, its fine, not great, but better than GFWL. Maybe its because I was expecting the worst but I found the whole process from updating windows to buying/installing the game really painless.

And, unlike EA and Ubisoft, MS actually have a legit reason for using their own platform. I guess they could go through steam like Ubi does where you have to use Steam AND Uplay, but thats just more DRM.