Why do people like the Civilization games?

I have tried to like Civilization IV. I have played many games and I have played the tutorial...and I have even read the manual.

I have a few problems with the game that kill the experience for me:

1. Too Much Information! - The Research tree is so large, and each action has so many implications that I never know what to do. So many choices are opened up to me, but in order to know what they actually do, I need to look in the manual which really makes the game a grind. Even then the amount of choice is staggering. If I just decide to just choose the "Recomended" research, I feel like I don't know what the heck is going on.

2. Random Combat - When I send a helicopter to assault a city, it should not be taken out by an archer. I do not even know how to decipher what is going on during the battles, and whether or not assaulting the city will be a good idea or not. With so much information out there, they can't seem to make the important info obvious.

3. Too much downtime - There are many points in the game where I am moving units and researching things that take a RIDULOUSLY long time to complete. During these times I am just hitting the enter key a ton of times. The game drags along during these moments, and this happens quite frequently.

Those are my major gripes with the games. I'm sure I could come up with more if I tried.

So, if you like the Civ games, why do you like them? What things about game are fun to you? Am I playing it wrong and is there a certain way to play the game to make it fun?

I too can't really get into the Civ games but apperantly its really good for its genre. Lets say a puzzle game gets a 8-9 score. I still wouldn't really like it since I'm not much of a fan of puzzle games. Does that make it bad? Certainly not, it's just not your cup of tea.

As for my puzzle comment, I do find Peggle quite satisfying :)

Civ is a tough game. I'd tone down the difficulty and decrease the time scale you're playing on. Be patient. Don't try to play the game unless you have large tracts of time and have nothing to do. Civilization is a game of strategy and trying to predict and manipulate the future. You're suppose to plan ahead, consider all your options. It's not a game to be rushed. A single game can last many, many hours. Keep trying different things each time you play. If you lose, consider what you did, and try something new. Eventually you'll get a feel for it.

If that isn't your cup of tea, that's alright.

I think there's a couple of reasons:

1) One of the most complex games that is actually fairly simple to learn.

2) A game that undertakes something as vast as building human civilization from the stone age to moder times and beyond? I can't think of any game with as large and broad a scope (well perhaps spore but lets not get started about that game..)

3) One of the few games that presents a very real challange without nessesarily focusing on combat

4) You can approach the game and succeed in a lot of diffrent ways (wage war on everyone, focus on getting superior tech and outdeveloping the rest of the world, keep enemies at bay and fighting one another using diplomacy, manipulate others using religion, build wealth through trade and buy your way to victory.....)

5) Nostalgia. Civ4 is really just a more polished version of the original civilization (there's changes but the core game is the same). When it was first released it was something never seen before. I think a lot of us have fond memories of being blown away by the original Civ games so we see them in a favorable light.

6) Still one of the best strategy games every made and released :)

1) One of the most complex games that is actually fairly simple to learn.

Mazoch

[QUOTE="Mazoch"]

1) One of the most complex games that is actually fairly simple to learn.

Ninja_Dog

I love Civ 4.

At TC, I was pretty much in your boat when I started. I had those exact reasons, but the only difference is I ended up enjoying what little time I spent with the game. The tutorial I thought was a pretty good introduction, but yeah, I lot of the game I sat around smashing enter so I could focus on troop creation and movement. While wildly successful for the first part of the game, I allied with the wrong nation and ended up coming in near last at the end of the game. Just a few crazy things that happened along the way made Civ 4 a great experience for me.

But I agree, it's not for everyone. I won't even try to sell it, because it's pretty daunting. I skimmed the surface of the game, really, but I've always been a sucker for ruling over cities and whatnot. And blowing them up : )

[QUOTE="Mazoch"]

1) One of the most complex games that is actually fairly simple to learn.

Ninja_Dog

Heh.. to be honest I can't really tell you since it was over 10 years ago :) However some general tips that might or might not be helpful:

Don't focus too much on building vast armies. Civ is not a war game in the same way as most other strategy games. War is just one possible tool available and it's often a very expensive and risky one.

Always build at least one defensive troop and leave him in your city for general defense (you can set him to fortify so you don't have to worry about him).

In the early game research is more important than taxes.

Don't start wars unless you think you can finish them quickly and make sure there is something in it for you. Wars cost you in terms of troops, city unrest and general havok.

Don't trust anyone. Just because your allied with Ghandi dosent mean Ghandi isent just waiting for a chance to invade and pillage your country.

For a somewhat easy game, make a costum world with mid sized islands. This gives you natural and effective defences. It will give you a lot of breathing room to learn the ins and outs of the game without having 3-4 other nations breathing down your neck.

[QUOTE="Mazoch"]

1) One of the most complex games that is actually fairly simple to learn.

Ninja_Dog

When I first started I played in an easy mode and pretty much pressed anything. When you go into harder levels youll get r***d fairly quickly so then youll start to understand what units/upgrades you need to do to survive.

But as was said above, at the easier levels all you do is press enter ALOT. Its in the harder modes that the game starts to make sense.

[QUOTE="Ninja_Dog"][QUOTE="Mazoch"]

1) One of the most complex games that is actually fairly simple to learn.

Mazoch

Heh.. to be honest I can't really tell you since it was over 10 years ago :) However some general tips that might or might not be helpful:

Don't focus too much on building vast armies. Civ is not a war game in the same way as most other strategy games. War is just one possible tool available and it's often a very expensive and risky one.

Always build at least one defensive troop and leave him in your city for general defense (you can set him to fortify so you don't have to worry about him).

In the early game research is more important than taxes.

Don't start wars unless you think you can finish them quickly and make sure there is something in it for you. Wars cost you in terms of troops, city unrest and general havok.

Don't trust anyone. Just because your allied with Ghandi dosent mean Ghandi isent just waiting for a chance to invade and pillage your country.

For a somewhat easy game, make a costum world with mid sized islands. This gives you natural and effective defences. It will give you a lot of breathing room to learn the ins and outs of the game without having 3-4 other nations breathing down your neck.

I have tried to like Civilization IV. I have played many games and I have played the tutorial...and I have even read the manual.

I have a few problems with the game that kill the experience for me:

1. Too Much Information! - The Research tree is so large, and each action has so many implications that I never know what to do. So many choices are opened up to me, but in order to know what they actually do, I need to look in the manual which really makes the game a grind. Even then the amount of choice is staggering. If I just decide to just choose the "Recomended" research, I feel like I don't know what the heck is going on.

2. Random Combat - When I send a helicopter to assault a city, it should not be taken out by an archer. I do not even know how to decipher what is going on during the battles, and whether or not assaulting the city will be a good idea or not. With so much information out there, they can't seem to make the important info obvious.

3. Too much downtime - There are many points in the game where I am moving units and researching things that take a RIDULOUSLY long time to complete. During these times I am just hitting the enter key a ton of times. The game drags along during these moments, and this happens quite frequently.

Those are my major gripes with the games. I'm sure I could come up with more if I tried.

So, if you like the Civ games, why do you like them? What things about game are fun to you? Am I playing it wrong and is there a certain way to play the game to make it fun?

Ninja_Dog

archers upgrade to anti air units, so theyre still pretty stong against air

I found the best way to learn was to play with friends. Five or six of us would literally play in 6 hour stretches multiple nights a week during the summertime. We would constantly be talking on ventrillo or skype and whenever we needed to figure something out one of us was usually able to and so the learning curve was much better. Took us about a week of playing like this to get a good grasp on the game.

I liked it for it's multiplayer.

Could not stand single player, but it was fun to play with a friend and take on lots of other nations.

Civ is awesome, it's not complex or hard if you play on the easier difficulties. I wish we had more TBS games but people don't seem to have the patience for them. :(

Also lol at Civ Rev. It's basically Civ4 with everything that makes it good taken away. I watched my friend play it on his PS3 and I think I got permanent brain damage from how dumbed down it was.

[QUOTE="Mazoch"]

1) One of the most complex games that is actually fairly simple to learn.

Ninja_Dog

It sounds like you are playing Civ III. Civ IV goes a bit more out of its way to reveal the game mechanics I think, especially when it comes to why other Civs are hostile towards you or not. (Some of the leaders, like Montezuma, are far more predisposed towards hostile actions though, no matter how clearly futile such a course of action might be.) Civ IV is also far more fast-paced on the normal game speed. I liked Civ III in its time, but after playing Civ IV there is no way I could ever go back to it.

Because its awesome