If you ever wondered what difference fast RAM and tighter timings does

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#1 Posted by Horgen (120167 posts) -

I know it is only one game and can be very cherry picked because of that. Look at the low 0,1% frames.

I know for many this doesn't matter. The example shown here is with RTX 2080. So while a great GPU, not the best. Can be something to keep in mind if you do like me and upgrade GPU more often than CPU/Mobo/RAM. Interesting?

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#2 Posted by osan0 (15380 posts) -

Actually more interesting than i thought. Initially i was watching the first part and was thinking "yeah but its on low, the 0.1% lows are still very high also. Who gets a 2080 to play on low and blah blah unrealistic scenario blah" but then i saw it was retested on ultra and that was a bit more interesting. The average FPS between the 3200 and 4000 was expected (really in the area of diminishing returns there) but the difference in the lows was a bit surprising.

I suppose its another demonstration of 2 things

1) if you want insanely high FPSs with absolute smoothness at all times then its not just about sticking the most powerful GPU you can find in your PC. the whole chain needs to be up to par: from the storage through to the CPU and Ram to the GPU.

2) knowing what you want your PC to actually do and focusing on building a PC to that requirement will save you alot of money.

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#3 Posted by urbangamez (3471 posts) -

4800 MHz ram is best

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#4 Edited by SaintSatan (1986 posts) -

@horgen: Thanks for making me buy ram punkass. I got a prebuilt this time around cuz it was super cheap but the ram in it was shit (2400). I've been holding off because ram prices have been crazy. Oh well...

After extensive research and benchmark videos it seems going over 3200 is a total waste of money. This should be a decent upgrade from 2400.

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#5 Posted by BassMan (10038 posts) -

Best to avoid any bottlenecks. Can't cheap out on RAM especially if you are rocking Ryzen.

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#6 Edited by mrbojangles25 (43791 posts) -

Pretty interesting video! Thanks for sharing.

Good to know that good RAM (but not great ram) is worth the extra cost.

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#7 Posted by Horgen (120167 posts) -

@mrbojangles25 said:

Pretty interesting video! Thanks for sharing.

Good to know that good RAM (but not great ram) is worth the extra cost.

Good RAM definitely worth it. Great RAM worth it if you aim for 120fps +

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#8 Posted by Horgen (120167 posts) -

@saintsatan: You're welcome.

@BassMan said:

Best to avoid any bottlenecks. Can't cheap out on RAM especially if you are rocking Ryzen.

I'm looking forward to Zen 2. I have to switch out my aging. 6600K.

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#9 Posted by osan0 (15380 posts) -

i was thinking: if you just wanted to play at a smooth and consistent 60FPS would the faster ram make any difference? the 2133MHz is not perfect but around 3000MHz looks to be plenty. it would be interesting to see at what point ram becomes a factor if you have vsync on and are playing on a 60FPS panel.

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#10 Edited by Horgen (120167 posts) -

@osan0 said:

i was thinking: if you just wanted to play at a smooth and consistent 60FPS would the faster ram make any difference? the 2133MHz is not perfect but around 3000MHz looks to be plenty. it would be interesting to see at what point ram becomes a factor if you have vsync on and are playing on a 60FPS panel.

It affects both average and minimum FPS. Getting 3200Mhz over 2133 is a much bigger difference than 3200 compared to 4000++.

60FPS panel could probably do with 2400 RAM for 95% of the games out there. Or more.

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#11 Posted by Bikouchu35 (8291 posts) -

@horgen: I can't wait to see what Zen 2 can do since the leap would be bigger. 12c-16c, 5ghz, increased ipc, better ram compatibility, lower latency, and lower wattage is what I am hoping for or maybe I am hoping for too much.

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#12 Posted by Horgen (120167 posts) -

@Bikouchu35 said:

@horgen: I can't wait to see what Zen 2 can do since the leap would be bigger. 12c-16c, 5ghz, increased ipc, better ram compatibility, lower latency, and lower wattage is what I am hoping for or maybe I am hoping for too much.

I doubt we will see 5GHz on the cores. Maybe one or two through overclocking. 8 cores on a single chiplet would help amazingly with gaming performance as the delay within one chiplet is much smaller than between two different ones. A 12 or 16 core would need a gaming performance mode like threadripper has today.

I'm hoping they can match Intel on IPC, so that at least clock for clock, they are equal. Intel will still have the lead on highest clock, and probably be able to handle the fastest RAM with the best timings, giving them the edge. However Zen 2 top CPU will probably cost 70% of Intel's top mainstream CPU and with far cheaper motherboards.

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#13 Posted by Bikouchu35 (8291 posts) -

@horgen said:

I doubt we will see 5GHz on the cores. Maybe one or two through overclocking. 8 cores on a single chiplet would help amazingly with gaming performance as the delay within one chiplet is much smaller than between two different ones. A 12 or 16 core would need a gaming performance mode like threadripper has today.

I'm hoping they can match Intel on IPC, so that at least clock for clock, they are equal. Intel will still have the lead on highest clock, and probably be able to handle the fastest RAM with the best timings, giving them the edge. However Zen 2 top CPU will probably cost 70% of Intel's top mainstream CPU and with far cheaper motherboards.

Adoredtv stuff has me all drummed up even though his rumors are hit and miss. If they can get ipc and clock speeds up a good amount than I would be oh so happy.

I also have to thank the dram calculator just right now. I'm finally able to hit 3200mhz cl14 after tinkering with their numbers. Cause I wasn't even able to touch the advertised speed at cl16 before without crashing from opening a game. I'll need to tweak it some more since 3466 is still too much to even boot, but they are just some random hynix cjr so I can't expect too much for what I paid for.

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#14 Posted by Horgen (120167 posts) -

@Bikouchu35 said:

Adoredtv stuff has me all drummed up even though his rumors are hit and miss. If they can get ipc and clock speeds up a good amount than I would be oh so happy.

I also have to thank the dram calculator just right now. I'm finally able to hit 3200mhz cl14 after tinkering with their numbers. Cause I wasn't even able to touch the advertised speed at cl16 before without crashing from opening a game. I'll need to tweak it some more since 3466 is still too much to even boot, but they are just some random hynix cjr so I can't expect too much for what I paid for.

I got some 3466 kit as well and I have no lucking getting them at that speed. My mobo sucks.

I got the timings for 3466 with 3200 speed I think, CL18 maybe. I tried upping the voltage quite a bit to get 3300 or 3466. Just didn't work. The kit is a few years old and cheap at the time.

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#15 Posted by DaVillain- (36073 posts) -

@BassMan said:

Best to avoid any bottlenecks. Can't cheap out on RAM especially if you are rocking Ryzen.

LOL yep and I'm running a Ryzen 7 2700X and that thing needs more seed so I went with 16GB Ram 3200. which is perfect.

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#16 Edited by 04dcarraher (23172 posts) -

@davillain- said:
@BassMan said:

Best to avoid any bottlenecks. Can't cheap out on RAM especially if you are rocking Ryzen.

LOL yep and I'm running a Ryzen 7 2700X and that thing needs more seed so I went with 16GB Ram 3200. which is perfect.

I'm using 3000mhz with 15 latency timings with my 8700. I think its fast enough for the job.

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#17 Posted by Horgen (120167 posts) -

@04dcarraher said:
@davillain- said:
@BassMan said:

Best to avoid any bottlenecks. Can't cheap out on RAM especially if you are rocking Ryzen.

LOL yep and I'm running a Ryzen 7 2700X and that thing needs more seed so I went with 16GB Ram 3200. which is perfect.

I'm using 3000mhz with 15 latency timings with my 8700. I think its fast enough for the job.

For most games probably. It's really worth it to get faster if you play FPS online though.

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#18 Edited by 04dcarraher (23172 posts) -

@horgen said:
@04dcarraher said:
@davillain- said:
@BassMan said:

Best to avoid any bottlenecks. Can't cheap out on RAM especially if you are rocking Ryzen.

LOL yep and I'm running a Ryzen 7 2700X and that thing needs more seed so I went with 16GB Ram 3200. which is perfect.

I'm using 3000mhz with 15 latency timings with my 8700. I think its fast enough for the job.

For most games probably. It's really worth it to get faster if you play FPS online though.

Slightly slower mhz ram with lower latency has same performance as slightly faster ram with higher latency. Like 3000mhz CAS 15 vs 3200mhz CAS 16.

Also I think its dependent on the game and engine.. My minimums and averages dont vary like that with TC:D2 with all the FPS titles I play online.

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#19 Edited by SaintSatan (1986 posts) -

@horgen: HOLY CRAP

I found out something very very interesting with my RAM upgrade. When I had 2400MHz RAM DX11 always ran better than DX12. DX12 always gave me a huge performance hit for some reason. Now that I upgraded to 3200MHz DX12 runs WAYYYYY better than DX11. This is freakin' insane. Wtf. DX12 seems to be extremely reliant on your RAM speed. Even in DX11 games I'm getting massive FPS increases. I can't believe what a difference this is making. My mind is blown. Gotdam.

EDIT: DX12 running better seems dependent on the game but games that didn't run well on DX12 run better now. Some others still give odd performance when using DX12. Interesting results so far. I've been testing shit for a few hours now. I'll be back with more findings tomorrow.

EDIT 2: DX12 works great in Rise of the Tomb Raider but terrible in Shadow of the Tomb Raider. I don't get this shit lol.

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#20 Edited by PredatorRules (12408 posts) -

@horgen: The only game I've encountered so far using faster RAM speeds makes more fps is F1, but the logical thing to do is getting faster RAM when you OC your CPU

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#21 Posted by Horgen (120167 posts) -

@04dcarraher said:

Slightly slower mhz ram with lower latency has same performance as slightly faster ram with higher latency. Like 3000mhz CAS 15 vs 3200mhz CAS 16.

Also I think its dependent on the game and engine.. My minimums and averages dont vary like that with TC:D2 with all the FPS titles I play online.

Neither RAM speed or timings are very good there though. 3600MHz should be doable with cas16 or even cas15. 4133 is doable with cas 17. Naturally more CPU heavy games seen an improvement. Battlefield with 64 players online requires a lot of the CPU. And thus RAM. Of course one can always do the math and see. 15/3000 = 0,005 and 16/3200 = 0,005. So they they are the same. However some games needs more bandwidth which prefer 3200MHz cas 16 over 3000MHz cas 15.

@saintsatan said:

@horgen: HOLY CRAP

I found out something very very interesting with my RAM upgrade. When I had 2400MHz RAM DX11 always ran better than DX12. DX12 always gave me a huge performance hit for some reason. Now that I upgraded to 3200MHz DX12 runs WAYYYYY better than DX11. This is freakin' insane. Wtf. DX12 seems to be extremely reliant on your RAM speed. Even in DX11 games I'm getting massive FPS increases. I can't believe what a difference this is making. My mind is blown. Gotdam.

EDIT: DX12 running better seems dependent on the game but games that didn't run well on DX12 run better now. Some others still give odd performance when using DX12. Interesting results so far. I've been testing shit for a few hours now. I'll be back with more findings tomorrow.

EDIT 2: DX12 works great in Rise of the Tomb Raider but terrible in Shadow of the Tomb Raider. I don't get this shit lol.

I wasn't aware of DX12 still being a hit and miss.

@PredatorRules said:

@horgen: The only game I've encountered so far using faster RAM speeds makes more fps is F1, but the logical thing to do is getting faster RAM when you OC your CPU

It shows better the stronger GPU you got, even more if you are running SLI.

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#22 Edited by BassMan (10038 posts) -

I picked up a new RAM kit as my RAM was a carry over from an old build. I didn't want to spend money on expensive RAM at the time and the prices are more reasonable now.

Old RAM is G.SKILL Ripjaws V 16GB DDR4 3200 (16-18-18-38) CR2 1.35V

New RAM is G.SKILL TridentZ 16GB DDR4 3600 (15-15-15-35) CR2 1.35V

This new kit has a good balance of speed and timings. I am hoping to get some better frame times and increase the minimum frame rates. I will be putting the old RAM in another build for a friend.

AIDA 64 Extreme latency benchmark is showing 41.0 ns. I have not done any OC or tweaks to the RAM.

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#23 Posted by Horgen (120167 posts) -

@BassMan: Those can probably be pushed to do 4133MHz at Cl17, might need 1.45 V though.

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#24 Posted by BassMan (10038 posts) -

@horgen said:

@BassMan: Those can probably be pushed to do 4133MHz at Cl17, might need 1.45 V though.

Yeah, I will have to play around with them after. Tight timings really make a difference. Especially on Ryzen...

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