I be damned, AMD were not bullshiting

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#51 Edited by rmpumper (653 posts) -

@R4gn4r0k said:

Why would I go for a X470 when the X570 supports higher speed RAM and PCI-e 4.0 could be interesting for future graphics cards?

The CPU has the memory controller, not the mobo. Look at some reviews, i.e. - https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/amd_ryzen_7_3700x_ryzen_9_3900x_x470_vs_x570_review/7

On x470 max RAM speed of 4200MHz, on X570 - 4600MHz. I bet you are not plannin to get RAM anywhere near 4000, so the argument is pointless.

PCI-e 4.0 is irrelevant for GPUs and will be irrelevant for the next two gens at the very least (by that time PCI-e 5.0 will be out).

Plus the fans on x570 mobos are loud as ****.

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#52 Posted by R4gn4r0k (31210 posts) -
@rmpumper said:

The CPU has the memory controller, not the mobo. Look at some reviews, i.e. - https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/amd_ryzen_7_3700x_ryzen_9_3900x_x470_vs_x570_review/7

On x470 max RAM speed of 4200MHz, on X570 - 4600MHz. I bet you are not plannin to get RAM anywhere near 4000, so the argument is pointless.

PCI-e 4.0 is irrelevant for GPUs and will be irrelevant for the next two gens at the very least (by that time PCI-e 5.0 will be out).

Plus the fans on x570 mobos are loud as ****.

So you are saying I should get a x470 motherboard for a 3700X and it would make no difference for gaming?

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#53 Posted by Random_Matt (4247 posts) -
@R4gn4r0k said:
@rmpumper said:

The CPU has the memory controller, not the mobo. Look at some reviews, i.e. - https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/amd_ryzen_7_3700x_ryzen_9_3900x_x470_vs_x570_review/7

On x470 max RAM speed of 4200MHz, on X570 - 4600MHz. I bet you are not plannin to get RAM anywhere near 4000, so the argument is pointless.

PCI-e 4.0 is irrelevant for GPUs and will be irrelevant for the next two gens at the very least (by that time PCI-e 5.0 will be out).

Plus the fans on x570 mobos are loud as ****.

So you are saying I should get a x470 motherboard for a 3700X and it would make no difference for gaming?

It is not recommended to go beyond 3777Mhz anyway according to AMD.

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#54 Edited by rmpumper (653 posts) -

@R4gn4r0k said:

So you are saying I should get a x470 motherboard for a 3700X and it would make no difference for gaming?

Even B450 is has no impact on performance vs. X570 (only ~1% difference): https://www.techspot.com/review/1869-amd-ryzen-3900x-ryzen-3700x/

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#55 Posted by R4gn4r0k (31210 posts) -
@rmpumper said:
@R4gn4r0k said:

So you are saying I should get a x470 motherboard for a 3700X and it would make no difference for gaming?

Even B450 is has no impact on performance vs. X570 (only ~1% difference): https://www.techspot.com/review/1869-amd-ryzen-3900x-ryzen-3700x/

But what about memory speed? What is the max memory speed that a 3700X could get coupled with a X470? Wouldn't that be a bottleneck, compared to getting a X570 mobo?

And I take it that B450 is an older standard than X470?

The money I could save from getting a X470, I could spend on a 3800X. And I'm not a fan of those tiny fans either.

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#56 Posted by R4gn4r0k (31210 posts) -

@Random_Matt: will every x470 board support up to 3777mhz ddr4 ram?

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#57 Edited by Random_Matt (4247 posts) -
@R4gn4r0k said:

@Random_Matt: will every x470 board support up to 3777mhz ddr4 ram?

Erm, yeah no problem. Just buy some with an xmp profile, job done.

Just get the X470 Taichi, the rest are shit to be honest.

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#58 Posted by R4gn4r0k (31210 posts) -
@Random_Matt said:

Erm, yeah no problem. Just buy some with an xmp profile, job done.

Just get the X470 Taichi, the rest are shit to be honest.

So I looked further and it seems like in order for the X470 to support this new chipset it needs to be BIOS flashed.

But most X470's will require you to have an older Zen already on it, in order to flash it.

I don't have any of that, as I'm currently on an Intel CPU.

Does this X470 Taichi support flashing without inserting an older Zen CPU?

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#59 Posted by Random_Matt (4247 posts) -
@R4gn4r0k said:
@Random_Matt said:

Erm, yeah no problem. Just buy some with an xmp profile, job done.

Just get the X470 Taichi, the rest are shit to be honest.

So I looked further and it seems like in order for the X470 to support this new chipset it needs to be BIOS flashed.

But most X470's will require you to have an older Zen already on it, in order to flash it.

I don't have any of that, as I'm currently on an Intel CPU.

Does this X470 Taichi support flashing without inserting an older Zen CPU?

Hmm, not as far as I can see, but you can just ask the retailer to update for you. Shouldn't be a problem, one of the retailers I have bought from have done it for me before, just delayed shipping by 24 hours.

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#60 Posted by R4gn4r0k (31210 posts) -
@Random_Matt said:

Hmm, not as far as I can see, but you can just ask the retailer to update for you. Shouldn't be a problem, one of the retailers I have bought from have done it for me before, just delayed shipping by 24 hours.

Thanks for the info, dude. I guess I will contact the retailer before ordering anything.

It seems like it will only be a matter of time before manufacterers start offering those X470 boards with updated BIOS for the new Ryzens.

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#61 Posted by Random_Matt (4247 posts) -
@R4gn4r0k said:
@Random_Matt said:

Hmm, not as far as I can see, but you can just ask the retailer to update for you. Shouldn't be a problem, one of the retailers I have bought from have done it for me before, just delayed shipping by 24 hours.

Thanks for the info, dude. I guess I will contact the retailer before ordering anything.

It seems like it will only be a matter of time before manufacterers start offering those X470 boards with updated BIOS for the new Ryzens.

Of course, most retailers where I am are selling out of X470 boards. I may pick one up myself, not sure what I want to be honest.

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#62 Posted by R4gn4r0k (31210 posts) -
@Random_Matt said:

Of course, most retailers where I am are selling out of X470 boards. I may pick one up myself, not sure what I want to be honest.

There is only one X570 board without a fan and it's stupid expensive. I don't get it. It feels like putting a fan on motherboards is a giant step back.

Is it to cheap out? because a small heatsink is more expensive than a cheap plastic fan? Than why are they claiming X570 is more expensive because it's made from premium materials :S

I will definitely look into a X470 and hopefully my retailer can flash it, this seems likely. Or by the time I do get around buying this new Zen2 CPU (september-october). The mobo's will be flashed beforehand.

I was looking into a Asus Strix gaming-f, but I'm not quite sure yet.

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#63 Posted by Random_Matt (4247 posts) -
@R4gn4r0k said:
@Random_Matt said:

Of course, most retailers where I am are selling out of X470 boards. I may pick one up myself, not sure what I want to be honest.

There is only one X570 board without a fan and it's stupid expensive. I don't get it. It feels like putting a fan on motherboards is a giant step back.

Is it to cheap out? because a small heatsink is more expensive than a cheap plastic fan? Than why are they claiming X570 is more expensive because it's made from premium materials :S

I will definitely look into a X470 and hopefully my retailer can flash it, this seems likely. Or by the time I do get around buying this new Zen2 CPU (september-october). The mobo's will be flashed beforehand.

I was looking into a Asus Strix gaming-f, but I'm not quite sure yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=20&v=MMJoLyrWa7E

The taichi really is the best one, not the ultimate which is the same with a 10 GBIT lan. He goes through the best ones, so take your pick.

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#64 Posted by R4gn4r0k (31210 posts) -

@Random_Matt: Sweet man, what is the name of that Taichi?

And will you be going for a 3700x? 3800x? ...

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#65 Posted by Random_Matt (4247 posts) -
@R4gn4r0k said:

@Random_Matt: Sweet man, what is the name of that Taichi?

And will you be going for a 3700x? 3800x? ...

X470 Taichi

Not sure, might even go 2nd gen and buy 3900X next year.

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#66 Posted by Horgen (120599 posts) -

@Random_Matt said:

@horgen: Merely highlighting that you are GPU bound going up in res, as you already know. There literally is no difference whatever CPU you choose, unless people care for a few frames. Intel still has the best 1080p performance if gamers are still on that.

The 3700X is still going to be the biggest seller imo, also the 3600 is very good value too. Nobody is sure about performance post new bios release, apparently some suggested they are hitting a power limiter.

https://www.techspot.com/review/1869-amd-ryzen-3900x-ryzen-3700x/#allcomments

With RTX2080 I think there is a difference actually at 1440, though game dependent.

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#67 Posted by Random_Matt (4247 posts) -
@horgen said:
@Random_Matt said:

@horgen: Merely highlighting that you are GPU bound going up in res, as you already know. There literally is no difference whatever CPU you choose, unless people care for a few frames. Intel still has the best 1080p performance if gamers are still on that.

The 3700X is still going to be the biggest seller imo, also the 3600 is very good value too. Nobody is sure about performance post new bios release, apparently some suggested they are hitting a power limiter.

https://www.techspot.com/review/1869-amd-ryzen-3900x-ryzen-3700x/#allcomments

With RTX2080 I think there is a difference actually at 1440, though game dependent.

If you want to chase a few extra frames, go for it.

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#68 Posted by R4gn4r0k (31210 posts) -
@Random_Matt said:

X470 Taichi

Not sure, might even go 2nd gen and buy 3900X next year.

I'm definitely upgrading my PC in fall, it has lasted me 5 years so far and I have only upgraded my GPU.

Thank god I skipped over the 'bitcoin craze' days :)

I'm not even sure what I'll end up with. Could be a 3700X/3800X or it could be a i7 9700K, if Intel decided to lower the prices in response.

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#69 Posted by Random_Matt (4247 posts) -
@R4gn4r0k said:
@Random_Matt said:

X470 Taichi

Not sure, might even go 2nd gen and buy 3900X next year.

I'm definitely upgrading my PC in fall, it has lasted me 5 years so far and I have only upgraded my GPU.

Thank god I skipped over the 'bitcoin craze' days :)

I'm not even sure what I'll end up with. Could be a 3700X/3800X or it could be a i7 9700K, if Intel decided to lower the prices in response.

Z390 is a dead platform, there will be no new processors from Intel. Their 10nm desktop chips arrive in 2021, it will need another new motherboard, you will be wasting your money with the 9700K.

AM4 will at the very least have ryzen 4 compatibility.

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#70 Posted by R4gn4r0k (31210 posts) -

@Random_Matt: Yeah but I can't wait until 2021 :P

I'll keep my eye on 3800X reviews anyway, not buying anything new anytime soon. But I will be upgrading after summer.

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#71 Posted by DaVillain- (36927 posts) -

@R4gn4r0k: If you don't mind me asking, what type of cooler are you looking for or rather into. Fan or liquid coolers?

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#72 Edited by R4gn4r0k (31210 posts) -

@davillain- said:

@R4gn4r0k: If you don't mind me asking, what type of cooler are you looking for or rather into. Fan or liquid coolers?

I always go with the stock cooler for CPUs, I've never tried liquid cooling.

Which is why I have avoided the 9XXX series from Intel so far, because they don't come with coolers. Not that it's a big deal, I'm just used to it being included.

I have seen a rather cheap (200) X570 motherboard from MSI come with a free liquid cooler though.

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#73 Edited by blaznwiipspman1 (7205 posts) -

@Random_Matt said:
@blaznwiipspman1 said:

intel > amd

Don't even need to read the reviews to know amd is crapp

Their GPU side is a different story, don't know why any moron would spend so much for an overrated nvidia when you can get a solid AMD gpu that does the same exact thing as the nvidia for 1/2 the price.

An Intel fanboy has made it into GS, if you read the reviews then you would know it is a fact ryzen is the better package.

ha, there has never been a day in the last 15 years that AMD has taken the crown of performance from intel, or even come close. I admit their newer cpus have closed the gap, it doesn't mean the performance is good or anything, just that its not as crap as we are used to expecting from them. Intel is still better, and again I don't even need to read the reviews to know that.

In fact, I expect intel to come out swinging with their gpus and give nvidia a run for their money. God knows we need some more muscle in the gpu space, what with AMD crap marketing, and their failure to compete on the highest end. If intel gpu starts to compete properly, AMD might even go bankrupt, and nvidia is sure to lose a ton of market share.

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#74 Posted by Random_Matt (4247 posts) -
@blaznwiipspman1 said:
@Random_Matt said:
@blaznwiipspman1 said:

intel > amd

Don't even need to read the reviews to know amd is crapp

Their GPU side is a different story, don't know why any moron would spend so much for an overrated nvidia when you can get a solid AMD gpu that does the same exact thing as the nvidia for 1/2 the price.

An Intel fanboy has made it into GS, if you read the reviews then you would know it is a fact ryzen is the better package.

ha, there has never been a day in the last 15 years that AMD has taken the crown of performance from intel, or even come close. I admit their newer cpus have closed the gap, it doesn't mean the performance is good or anything, just that its not as crap as we are used to expecting from them. Intel is still better, and again I don't even need to read the reviews to know that.

In fact, I expect intel to come out swinging with their gpus and give nvidia a run for their money. God knows we need some more muscle in the gpu space, what with AMD crap marketing, and their failure to compete on the highest end. If intel gpu starts to compete properly, AMD might even go bankrupt, and nvidia is sure to lose a ton of market share.

Clearly not.

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#75 Posted by Horgen (120599 posts) -

@Random_Matt said:
@R4gn4r0k said:
@Random_Matt said:

X470 Taichi

Not sure, might even go 2nd gen and buy 3900X next year.

I'm definitely upgrading my PC in fall, it has lasted me 5 years so far and I have only upgraded my GPU.

Thank god I skipped over the 'bitcoin craze' days :)

I'm not even sure what I'll end up with. Could be a 3700X/3800X or it could be a i7 9700K, if Intel decided to lower the prices in response.

Z390 is a dead platform, there will be no new processors from Intel. Their 10nm desktop chips arrive in 2021, it will need another new motherboard, you will be wasting your money with the 9700K.

AM4 will at the very least have ryzen 4 compatibility.

Eh, I think it will be Zen 2+, Not Zen 3.

Zen 3 or Zen 3+ might be with DDR5 compatible. Or was it PCIE 5???

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#76 Posted by Howmakewood (5930 posts) -

@horgen: pcie 5 next year

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#77 Edited by Random_Matt (4247 posts) -
@horgen said:
@Random_Matt said:
@R4gn4r0k said:
@Random_Matt said:

X470 Taichi

Not sure, might even go 2nd gen and buy 3900X next year.

I'm definitely upgrading my PC in fall, it has lasted me 5 years so far and I have only upgraded my GPU.

Thank god I skipped over the 'bitcoin craze' days :)

I'm not even sure what I'll end up with. Could be a 3700X/3800X or it could be a i7 9700K, if Intel decided to lower the prices in response.

Z390 is a dead platform, there will be no new processors from Intel. Their 10nm desktop chips arrive in 2021, it will need another new motherboard, you will be wasting your money with the 9700K.

AM4 will at the very least have ryzen 4 compatibility.

Eh, I think it will be Zen 2+, Not Zen 3.

Zen 3 or Zen 3+ might be with DDR5 compatible. Or was it PCIE 5???

What's next PCIE 6, 7 and 8. Swear to god DDR4 is not even that old.

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#78 Posted by Bikouchu35 (8304 posts) -

@Horgen

No, Zen2+, amd is speeding up the process on bulldozing the competition.

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#79 Posted by R4gn4r0k (31210 posts) -

So I got another question:

I was looking into getting 3733mhz RAM to pair with these new Zen 2 chips.

But I'm having some real trouble finding out what speed RAM these X470 mobo's actually support.

Do the ASRock X470 Taichi or ASUS Crosshair VII Hero X470 actually support up to 3733Mhz RAM or do they require some kind of (voltage) overclock?

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#80 Posted by Random_Matt (4247 posts) -

They should allow XMP profile, you press XMP is bios and it will automatically run that speed. Would quote but has disappeared as has the size of screen.

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#81 Posted by R4gn4r0k (31210 posts) -

I dunno man, I read a comment on Reddit where someone said he had to downclock his 3733Mhz RAM on Taichi X470 in order to get it working.

I really don't know what or who to believe anymore.

Spent some time now researching mobo's so far and there is no guarantee that a X470 mobo will run flawlessly, even when flashed.

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#82 Posted by Random_Matt (4247 posts) -

If you cannot listen to buildzoid or decent review sites then no one can help you.

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#83 Posted by R4gn4r0k (31210 posts) -

Which decent review sites have an in depth look on 3700X running on X470 mobo's?

Along with a look on how the DDR4 ram performs on those?

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#84 Posted by Random_Matt (4247 posts) -

Tiny Tom - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45fQaCl9WlA

https://premiumbuilds.com/motherboards/best-motherboards-for-ryzen-7-3700x-3800x/ - Short overview.

Not much to be honest, but you are way over thinking this.

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#85 Posted by burntbyhellfire (256 posts) -

my first ever computer had an AMD K5 in it.. i've been using AMD CPUs ever since, intel has always consistently delivered lower performance for the same price

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#86 Posted by burntbyhellfire (256 posts) -

sorry, just checked, it was an AMD K6-2 that i had first

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#87 Posted by R4gn4r0k (31210 posts) -

I'm just a bit fearful to be buying all this expensive new hardware, getting it delivered, building it together, only to then find out that something ain't working correctly.

Anyway, I am very thankful for your advice, mate :)

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#88 Posted by Horgen (120599 posts) -

@Bikouchu35 Ah ok. Well I said maybe :P

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#89 Edited by blaznwiipspman1 (7205 posts) -

@Random_Matt: lol at Intel is fucked. Intel has enough cash on hand to buy out AMD 5 times over. The only reason it doesn't happen is anti trust. AMD is an ant. Intel is the juggernaut.

By the way, coffee lake refresh just came out, Intel core 10900, 24 core monster with 5.2 GHz clock. Price is only $499.

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#90 Edited by Random_Matt (4247 posts) -
@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@Random_Matt: lol at Intel is fucked. Intel has enough cash on hand to buy out AMD 5 times over. The only reason it doesn't happen is anti trust. AMD is an ant. Intel is the juggernaut.

By the way, coffee lake refresh just came out, Intel core 10900, 24 core monster with 5.2 GHz clock. Price is only $499.

It won't be a monster, still crummy 14nm. However, if the ten core ends being better than the 3900X in the productivity tasks, then all good. Nice to have competition again, 5.2 is single core by the way and still seems a desperate move from Intel until 7nm.

Apparently it is fake.

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#91 Posted by R4gn4r0k (31210 posts) -
@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@Random_Matt: lol at Intel is fucked. Intel has enough cash on hand to buy out AMD 5 times over. The only reason it doesn't happen is anti trust. AMD is an ant. Intel is the juggernaut.

By the way, coffee lake refresh just came out, Intel core 10900, 24 core monster with 5.2 GHz clock. Price is only $499.

Not confirmed, so could be a fake.

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#92 Posted by Grey_Eyed_Elf (6453 posts) -

According to the results from Hardware Unboxed you should be absolutely fine with the 8 core and lower Zen 2 chips on X470/B450 and even X370/B350 boards the ONLY issue is the memory capability of the older boards.

With a 3900X the VRM's get hot so stay away from that chip if you have anything but a X570 board in my opinion,

Loading Video...

If you have a X470 with decent VRM cooling maybe a 3900X won't be much of a issue, but again memory could be a problem depending on the board.

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#93 Posted by nikeswoosh (940 posts) -

@mrbojangles25: Amd had the crown way back with the athlon 64!!

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#94 Posted by mrbojangles25 (44045 posts) -

@nikeswoosh: oh I remember :) Had one them myself.

Honestly you really cant go wrong with either option.

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#95 Edited by WESTBLADE (467 posts) -

i9-9900K and 3900X are at sitting at the exact same price right now, with that Intel one being almost 1 year older, having less power consumption on low and high system load and still beating the crap outta AMD's brand new, top-end CPU in the gaming department as well...

Personally can't wait to do a new build already, just patiently waiting when DDR5 RAM hits the market and that should be basically around the corner. So, i guess that means going for top-end CPU+MB+RAM next year, just like i did back back in 2014? :D

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#96 Posted by Helghast_Merc (800 posts) -

Well, I think AMD has the upper hand this year. But we should wait for Intel to release their next CPU. If I read correctly, their upcoming CPU is codenamed "Frozen Lake." it might beat out Ryzen's fastest CPU, or it might be up to par with it. But all this heavy competition definitely benefits PC builders.

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#97 Posted by ronvalencia (28067 posts) -

@Random_Matt said:

Intel truly is fucked.

https://elchapuzasinformatico.com/2019/06/amd-ryzen-5-3600-x470-review/

Nope..

Loading Video...

Digital Foundry contradicted Hardware Unbox.

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#98 Edited by appariti0n (2783 posts) -

IMO this hinges on how often you upgrade.

My i7 970 from 9 years ago was in no way regarded as the best gaming cpu for the money at that time.

However, with 6 cores, 12 threads, and an overclock from 3.2 to 4.0, I have yet to encounter a modern game that wont achieve at least 70 fps with the correct settings.

Had I saved a few hundred bucks and gone with a quad core instead, there is no way I would have been able to go so long without an upgrade.

I see the 3900x in much the same light. Sure, the 9900k benches higher for now. As games become more and more optimized for high thread counts, the 3900x should stand the test of time much better.

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#99 Edited by ronvalencia (28067 posts) -

@appariti0n:

The main reason for Core i7 9700K with 8C/8T's very competitive results are due to current gen game console's targeting 8C/8T programming model which can cause excessive context switching overheads on older Core i5 4C/4T.

8C/16T programming model is for next console generation.