HELP PLEASE! HDTV Plasma or LCD for gaming

Ok thanks for your time guys. I dont know what to pick between a plasma or lcd i can atleast speed $2,000

I was thinking of getting the (panasonic G10 plasma) but then i heard about (ABL)-(Automatic brightness limiter) that my screen will go really dim during games like lost planet etc anything with snow which is white. but is thier any way to take (ABL)-(Automatic brightness limiter) off if not then i guess we would have a problem. so please give me advice on what to get.

If not Please tell me about a really good LCD with nice blacks and good picture. Thanks again

I have a panny plasma, the 85u, I love it. Ive never had any problems with whites, and i have never heard of the brightness limiter stuff until the other day on these forums.

Go to AVSforums.com. Almost everyone there recommends plasmas, and the place is full of true videofiles and audiofiles. Plasma is the way to go, and isnt limited by refresh rates as LCDs are. With your budget, maybe you can go with an LED LCD with a high refresh rate and get the same result as a plasma. but why spend all that extra cash?

Here it comes the epic battle of LCD to Plasma.
I would say LCD, but then again I am biased because I can't stand ABL.
My suggest is simple. Don't listen to anyone, because everyone is biased.

See for yourself. Go to Best Buy or where ever you want to buy your TV. Bring a DVD with a lot of white scenes "Alive" or "Vertical Limit" or "Cliffhanger". You can get these DVDs anywhere. Make the guy play the DVD on both TVs. Play it once on an Plasma, play the same scene again on an LCD, and you decide which you like better.

Never listen to other people's opinions. They are always biased. LCD lover will alwaystell you how contrast ratio and viewing angle is not an issue, when in fact it is. Plasma lovers will always tell you how a dim TV set is better for your eyes and all that mumbo jumbo, when in fact it's your preference.

Don't listen to anyone, do what I did try it out and see what you like. Bring those bright white DVDs to the store and force them to show you what each TV can do. You know what, you may find that you don't mind the ABL.

To accuratley gage what ABL really does, you need to tell the salesman to raise the Plasma's brightness and contrast settings above the factory default. At low brightness ABL is not always active.

Best luck on finding your perfect TV. If you do end up getting an LCD don't buy anything under 120hz, or you won't be able to see true 24p films.

I have a panny plasma, the 85u, I love it. Ive never had any problems with whites, and i have never heard of the brightness limiter stuff until the other day on these forums.

Go to AVSforums.com. Almost everyone there recommends plasmas, and the place is full of true videofiles and audiofiles. Plasma is the way to go, and isnt limited by refresh rates as LCDs are. With your budget, maybe you can go with an LED LCD with a high refresh rate and get the same result as a plasma. but why spend all that extra cash?

snowren24

I have the 56in version of the Panasonic G10 series and i have never noticed any weird problem with the screen dimming during bright scenes or games.

I've stated this before, but I have never noticed ABL on a plasma. I think a properly calibrated plasma will have no such issue. If you compare plasma to LCD in your home, you are most likely to see better color, more contrast, no motion blur, and a very wide viewing angle. The same can't be said for LCD. I only recommend LCD for rooms with a lot of light in them and even then, you need an LCD with a matte screen. Most of the better Samsung's now come with "shiny screens" that are no better than plasma at limiting screen reflections. By the way, I don't agree with raising the brightness above default on any TV. Calibrate it properly with a test disc or THX optimization found on many Blu-Ray and DVD discs. Normally you will have to turn the brightness down further especially on LCD's.

You cannot achieve true white with the brightness on default settings on a plasma. At most you will only ever get a light shade of gray, the same can be said about LCD's blacks. You can never achieve true black on an LCD because some light will always filter through due to the back light mechanics. LCD can give you true white, and Plasma true black, there is no technology other than OLED that can give you both on the same display.

There is a brilliant article written on AVS forum that I read a while back by someone who really understand color calibration, that states that due to Plasma's ABL you can never accurately calibrate it according to scale.

I will say this again, that neither technology is without it's flaws, to ignore flaws for personal taste is pointless. I don't advocate that LCD is better, or that Plasmas are worse. It's certainly a matter of taste. But I will say OLED will be perfect.

You cannot achieve true white with the brightness on default settings on a plasma. At most you will only ever get a light shade of gray, the same can be said about LCD's blacks. You can never achieve true black on an LCD because some light will always filter through due to the back light mechanics. LCD can give you true white, and Plasma true black, there is no technology other than OLED that can give you both on the same display.

There is a brilliant article written on AVS forum that I read a while back by someone who really understand color calibration, that states that due to Plasma's ABL you can never accurately calibrate it according to scale.

I will say this again, that neither technology is without it's flaws, to ignore flaws for personal taste is pointless. I don't advocate that LCD is better, or that Plasmas are worse. It's certainly a matter of taste. But I will say OLED will be perfect.

pimperjones

Couldn't CRT do all of this nearly perfect? They were just to fat and heavy.rastan

u better go check by urself..go compare at any big electronics shop where they put all types of TV's "brands..sizes..lcds nd plasmas" and see what suites u more..but here i swear plasma fans and lcd fans will keep fighting to proof which is better and forget about ur question.. but if u ask me i would say LCD is better for gaming :P

Why? I think the motion lag is the biggest issue with gaming on LCD. For multiplayer gaming, then the poor off axis viewing is also a serious issue.

The plasmas give true whites - white is still white, regardless of the brightness involved.

No, white is not white, when it is dim and contains elements of gray.

White definition - White is a color, the perception which is evoked by light that stimulates all three types of color sensitive cone cells in the human eye in nearly equal amounts and with high brightness compared to the surroundings. A white visual stimulation will be void of hue and grayness.

Second that BS about the human eye doing the ABL for you.Obviously if I can notice the ABL working then my eye is not doing it.The human eye has a certain degree of iris adjustment from bright scenes to dark ones, but is so minute that it goes unnoticed. The moment it becomes a noticeable feature it's no longer something that can be appreciated. The whole point of watching a film is for the suspension of disbelief,if I can feel the screen making luminance adjustments then howcan I suspend my disbelief?

Anyways these are just my opinions, and it's obvious they will conflict with any Plasma aficionado. Like I said before, don't listen to anyone. Everyone is biased, check for yourself.

Honestly, no one here can tell you. It's all in your eyes. A TV is only as good as your eyes.

That being said, I've heard that plasma tvs are better for watching sports and sports games(take hockey for example, the puck really stands out because of a plasma's deep blacks). LCD's are better for regular tv and other games. Me and my brother just got tvs. His is a 42" plasma and mine is a 32" LCD.

Comparing them, watching sports on his tv is better, especially hockey. The colors are a lot deeper. On my LCD, the colors are much brighter and more vibrant, and some games look better on it. I haven't noticed any blur on either tvs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the cable you used affects blur, HDMI has a lower refresh rate than component cables.

Again, it's all in your eyes, and what you want to use the TV for. Do you watch a ton of sports and play sports games, and want deeper colors? Get a plasma. If you are more of a regular tv watcher that wants bright and vibrant colors, and won't mind the bit of blur that there may be, then get an LCD.

I would should a Plasma for gaming, since they don't suffer from motion-blur. But if you're worried about burn-in get an LCD with at least 120hz.

No, white is not white, when it is dim and contains elements of gray.

White definition - White is a color, the perception which is evoked by light that stimulates all three types of color sensitive cone cells in the human eye in nearly equal amounts and with high brightness compared to the surroundings. A white visual stimulation will be void of hue and grayness.

Second that BS about the human eye doing the ABL for you.Obviously if I can notice the ABL working then my eye is not doing it.The human eye has a certain degree of iris adjustment from bright scenes to dark ones, but is so minute that it goes unnoticed. The moment it becomes a noticeable feature it's no longer something that can be appreciated. The whole point of watching a film is for the suspension of disbelief,if I can feel the screen making luminance adjustments then howcan I suspend my disbelief?

Anyways these are just my opinions, and it's obvious they will conflict with any Plasma aficionado. Like I said before, don't listen to anyone. Everyone is biased, check for yourself.

pimperjones

B: What you're witnessing is because, as I said, you're throwing it into an artificial situation - increasing the ambient brightness of where you're watching the television. I predicted as much the instant you described your problem, because I know how it works and I know what causes the issue.

This has been known for years. If you're in your natural viewing environment, which on average is *not* a room with the sun directly facing you through gigantic windows, then yes - your eyes adjust to a given average level of light, and a sudden flash of brightness will cause your pupils to quickly contract. This is why police officers shine flashlights in your eyes at traffic stops, to force your pupils to contract as they should normally. It's what HDR in video games is supposed to simulate with the sudden light blowout followed by dimming to 'normal' levels - the sudden 'all white' being counteracted by our eyes reacting within a second or so to dim everything we see to where we can resolve details normally again. This is all pretty common stuff, and is something we're taught in elementary school, as I mentioned. Or at least I was.

All that is just explaining to all of the other users commenting and wondering why they don't notice this thing you're talking about - unless you specifically put the screen in a bright enough environment to cause your eyes to remain as if you're outdoors in full sunlight, you won't notice. This is also why it's been pretty common knowledge that in a store is generally a horrible place to 'test' a TV versus seeing it in your individual viewing environment.

Honestly, try taking those comments to avsforum if you're that serious, where there are plenty of people equipped with the past decade of talking about this to correct any other misconceptions you have. I just don't like people going off half-cocked and giving incomplete advice to others. The ABL only comes into effect if you're in an extremely bright room, which, as I mentioned and was able to predict from your related story, it so happens you are. And that's why there's always been the blanket 'if you're in a bright room get an LCD, period' advice for as long as I can remember.

It's easy to make noise about most LCD's almost all having off-axis contrast shifts in the central region of the screen because they use VA panels. Hey, it's there, but it's just how VA panels work, and it's the tradeoff you take to get better contrast out of an LCD! But it's also something 99.99% of users won't notice, so you don't see people running around trying to frighten others who don't know any better and wouldn't notice anyway.

What you learned in grade school is irrelevant here, I don't know why you keep bringing it up. Other than to be condescending. I make my judgement by what my eyes can see. And I'm sorry but I notice the ABL even at night time in a pitch dark environment. So, please don't give me that BS about how luminance shifts are only noticeable in the day time. The reason many people who own Plasmas don't notice the ABL is cause few even bother to re-calibrate their TV sets, ABL is not even active in default Plasma brightness settings as I mentioned before.

It's common knowledge that Plasmas give dim whites and LCD give washed out blacks. It's pretty much listed in every pros and cons review between the two competing technologies. Just google it up and I'm certain you will find many forum posts, and online article on the pros and cons of LCD and Plasma that are not written by me. What I find odd is how you seem to think that any fault found on Plasma is a figment of someone's imagination rather than hard facts. It's a hard fact PLASMA cannot generate enough Juice to sustain max luminance across the board. How you can see this as being a beneficial function is beyond me? It's like saying that motion lag on LCD is actually a good function because it gives video sources that motion judder found in 24p film, and hence motion blur in LCDs are actually a great benefit to humanity because it makes videos look like film? You see how ridiculous it sounds to adamantly force a blatant weakness as a strength.

The difference between me and you is that I can live with LCD having faults and weaknesses, because I know it is not the perfect display technology. Where as you seem to hold the misconstrued belief that Plasma has no faults and that not being able to run at high luminance is somehow a great benefit and not a weakness in a flawed technology. Their is reason why 35mm film projections in the theaters do not come with ABL adjustments. Because it is not the way the film was mean't to be seen. I'm certain film director didn't sit their and say "Oh gee wiz, why don't we lower the exposure on that shot a few stops cause it might hurt someone's eyes." Plasma and LCD are both flawed in conception, they are just a footprint in creating a perfect display technology. That's why you will soon see the induction of OLED to replace both Plasma and LCD, because neither Plasma nor LCD are considered perfect display mediums, one lacks pure black, the other pure white. It is just a matter of time before both displays become redundant.

So in the meantime the choice is up to the individual, on which they personaly prefer. It becomes the lesser of two evils, but regardless they are both flawed.

Honestly, no one here can tell you. It's all in your eyes. A TV is only as good as your eyes.

That being said, I've heard that plasma tvs are better for watching sports and sports games(take hockey for example, the puck really stands out because of a plasma's deep blacks). LCD's are better for regular tv and other games. Me and my brother just got tvs. His is a 42" plasma and mine is a 32" LCD.

Comparing them, watching sports on his tv is better, especially hockey. The colors are a lot deeper. On my LCD, the colors are much brighter and more vibrant, and some games look better on it. I haven't noticed any blur on either tvs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the cable you used affects blur, HDMI has a lower refresh rate than component cables.

Again, it's all in your eyes, and what you want to use the TV for. Do you watch a ton of sports and play sports games, and want deeper colors? Get a plasma. If you are more of a regular tv watcher that wants bright and vibrant colors, and won't mind the bit of blur that there may be, then get an LCD.

WiiRocks66

[QUOTE="WiiRocks66"]

Honestly, no one here can tell you. It's all in your eyes. A TV is only as good as your eyes.

That being said, I've heard that plasma tvs are better for watching sports and sports games(take hockey for example, the puck really stands out because of a plasma's deep blacks). LCD's are better for regular tv and other games. Me and my brother just got tvs. His is a 42" plasma and mine is a 32" LCD.

Comparing them, watching sports on his tv is better, especially hockey. The colors are a lot deeper. On my LCD, the colors are much brighter and more vibrant, and some games look better on it. I haven't noticed any blur on either tvs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the cable you used affects blur, HDMI has a lower refresh rate than component cables.

Again, it's all in your eyes, and what you want to use the TV for. Do you watch a ton of sports and play sports games, and want deeper colors? Get a plasma. If you are more of a regular tv watcher that wants bright and vibrant colors, and won't mind the bit of blur that there may be, then get an LCD.

rastan

ISF is the Imaging Science Foundation. TV's can be "ISF" calibrated. I've never seen them pre-sold that way though. Theoretically, 2 TV"S that are calibrated the same should look the same in color, brightness, and gray scale. Hence, whether it is LCD, plasma, or CRT if it calibrated the same the colors and brightness should be the same without "pop." The differences would be in contrast, motion blur, processing, and noise.rastan

snippimperjones

As I said a few times now, I'm not saying it's a benefit, I'm explaining why most people won't and don't notice it, as some have mentioned they saw no issue when you continued to bring it up in a couple different threads. I reference grade-school teaching because some people are curious why they don't notice, and might like to understand why in simple terms.

As I've said 3 times now, ABL *is* a major issue and an instant dealbreaker regardless of preference if you're in an extremely bright room with no way to control the light, otherwise you're not likely to notice - and all that is taken into account in the default advice that everybody knows by heart.

We watched football on a one year old Samsung 40" 1080p LCD on Thanksgiving and the motion blur (probably caused by pixel response time) was definitely evident. Picture looked great on still shots, just not so great on fast motion.rastan

TBH I own a 52inch XBR4 LCD and a 50inch Elite Kuro Plasma, andPlasma>LCD for gaming. But I don't really know how lower end plasmas would handle considering the Elite Kuro is my first Plasma, and also happens to be the best plasma. But The XBR4 is also still very nice for gaming.

i just gat a Panasonic Viera TC-P46U1 for $1000.00 and is great for my xbox 360 and ps3. is fast at 600hz vs a 120hz LCD

MW2 looks great (xbox360)

here are some of the specs

• 1080p full-HD resolution
• Contrast ratio: 30,000:1 native
• 600Hz subfield drive

• Three HDMI inputs
• Panel life of 100,000 hours

better than my old 32 Philips LCD

i own a samsung 50 1080p plasma in my bedroom. i also own a 50 samsung 1080p led projection and all my friens and family own lcd&plasma eqully. they all have their -+ i personall like LED-DLP for videogaming and plasma for the crappyer signals like charter cable and dvds.