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ktwq

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#1 ktwq
Member since 2003 • 1199 Posts

Hey all,

I just started having an interest in flight simulators like FSX and Falcon 4.0.

Anyone can recommend good joysticks?

Thanks

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bogaty

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#2 bogaty
Member since 2003 • 4750 Posts

Not a lot to choose from anymore. I have a CH Products HOTAS system which gets rave reviews from the hardcore sim crowd but I personally don't care for it. The key binding/marco setup utility is very unweildy. I still swear by my MS Sidewinder 2 force feedback stick. Best joystick I've ever owned and the FFB adds a tonne of immersion to the sims. Unfortunately, MS stopped making them about 4 years ago. It's a testament as to how good they are that they're still selling on eBay for 2-3 times what they cost new.

Anyway, I prefer force feedback sticks but there are only two to choose from. The Saitek Cyborg Force Evo and the Logitech Force 3D Pro. The Logitech stick is a piece of garbage. Cheap plastic parts and hardly any range of motion. The Cyborg stick is pretty good, but the throttle placement wasn't very well thought out. If you try to pull back on the stick while at 100% throttle, the stick and throttle actually get in each other's way. Makes power climbs in a dogfight hard to pull off.

As for non FFB sticks, you should look into a HOTAS system. You've basically got:

The CH Products HOTAS system, which gets great reviews because the fine control is excellent and the sticks are very durable. The software utility is cumbersome at best and the sticks look and feel like cheap plastic depite their durability.

The Saitek X-52 HOTAS system. Definitely the sleekest looking of the bunch and has by far the best macro utility and switching. Track record isn't great though and a lot of people report that the potentiometers give out.

The Thrustmaster Cougar HOTAS system. Got great initial reviews but long term users reported a lot of weird glitches and bugs showing up after a while. Also, users with small hands said the stick was a bit too big and the buttons spaced a bit too far apart.

All three HOTAS systems are quite expensive. If you want something a little more reasonable, I say grab a Saitek Cyborg stick. They offer the best performance for price. They've just release a new one called the Cyborg X, which looks like it has a lot of nice features (sadly no force feedback though).

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NamelessPlayer

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#3 NamelessPlayer
Member since 2004 • 7729 Posts
You forgot to mention that despite the cumbersomeness, the CH Products Control Manager is by far the most powerful input device programming utility out there. Sure, the scripting language takes a bit of time to learn, but you can do things with it that even the Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar's logical programming can't do, let alone any other joystick. I just wish that their devices were a bit more ergonomic, otherwise I wouldn't have sold off my Fighterstick and Pro Pedals. (Let's just say that if you find the Cougar's stick uncomfortable to use, you'll probably go running back to it after you try the Fighterstick, unless it's the Cougar stick's sheer tension that bothers you.) The Saitek programming software is easy to use, but it lacks options compared to the Thrustmaster and CH offerings. The Cougar has a few issues-misaligned speedbrake switches, spiky pots, stock gimbals that develop quite a bit of play/slop over time, etc. However, other than the speedbrake issue being unfixed, I haven't had much issue with mine until someone managed to break the sensor shaft of the FCC-1 mod that was installed when I bought it by throwing the damn thing at the ground. I'm awaiting repairs at the moment, as the stock pots and gimbals aren't working very well (not that I would even want to go back to those after having a modded stick). In the meantime, a Logitech Strike Force 3D serves as my prop job stick, though its gimbals also need modding because the pots are attached to them in a very poor manner. (Basically, if I move the stick along only one axis, I get a slight shift in the other axis because the pot's moving ever-so-slightly.) As for force-feedback, your options are limited-definitely no proper HOTAS setups. It's also unrealistic for Falcon 4.0 because the F-16 uses a pressure-driven stick that doesn't move much and mostly registers the force applied. (You could replicate it if you're willing to shell out for a Cougar and then pay twice as much for an FCC-2 or FSSB R1/R2.) However, if you fly old propeller aircraft like WWII fighters, force-feedback may just be what you're looking for. Just note that you'll need to make sure that your game/sim can see multiple DirectInput IDs if you intend to use a FFB stick with the rest of a HOTAS setup-most of them do nowadays, but a few don't (in my case, I'm irritated that Armed Assault can still only see the first DirectInput device).
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bogaty

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#4 bogaty
Member since 2003 • 4750 Posts
Saitek put out feelers a while back indicating that they were considering producing a force feedback version of the X-52 Pro. I wonder if they're still considering now that they've been bought out by Mad Catz. I hope so. I'd buy one in a second and throw my CH products up on eBay..
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#5 NamelessPlayer
Member since 2004 • 7729 Posts
Saitek put out feelers a while back indicating that they were considering producing a force feedback version of the X-52 Pro. I wonder if they're still considering now that they've been bought out by Mad Catz. I hope so. I'd buy one in a second and throw my CH products up on eBay..bogaty
If that happens, I'm shoving the Strike Force 3D to the side and bringing on this supposed X-52 Force, so long as it doesn't have any of the X-52's more infamous issues like uncorrectable dead zone in the center and randomly cutting out and not responding when you need it most. Saitek is at least more preferable to me than Logitech regarding joysticks, except for the fact that they still don't have a force-feedback stick with more than one hat switch in addition to the usual 4-6 buttons. A FFB-enabled X-52 would correct that and then some. (Of course, it's not going to replace my Cougar. That stays for Falcon 4.0's sake.)