Epic Games Store shady/illegal refund practices

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Cyfarfod

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#1 Cyfarfod
Member since 2019 • 2 Posts

Hey, look, I am just trying to get attention on this issue; I thought this might be a place to get some word out.

Multiple people are being denied refunds for Borderlands 3 because they sunk over two hours into trying to get the game to launch; here's my responses from Epic Games Store's CS.

https://imgur.com/a/fw2SLp8

If you go to the Epic Games Store sub as of 1:00 Sunday, 9.15.19 there are three front page posts on this issue. One is me, of course. I would assume there are more people having this issue if there's already three on such a small sub.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicGamesPC/

This practice is illegal in my state (Maine)- you absolutely cannot deny a refund for a non-functioning product, regardless of the wording in your TOS.

At this point I have contacted the NC BBB, the FTC and my state's AG office, and told Epic Games I have done so.

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Litchie

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#2 Litchie
Member since 2003 • 24516 Posts

Sucks for those who didn't read the refund policy and was for some reason trying to start a game for more than two hours.

Let us know what happens.

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xantufrog

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#3 xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 11772 Posts

Can't say I'm surprised. They've done nothing to show themselves in a good light

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BassMan

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#4 BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10773 Posts

@xantufrog said:

Can't say I'm surprised. They've done nothing to show themselves in a good light

They give away free games every week and offer developers an 88/12 split. I would say those are 2 pretty good things.

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mrbojangles25

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#5  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 44633 Posts

@BassMan said:
@xantufrog said:

Can't say I'm surprised. They've done nothing to show themselves in a good light

They give away free games every week and offer developers an 88/12 split. I would say those are 2 pretty good things.

All moot in the face of their exclusivity practices. Keep that nonsense to consoles where it's actually kind of needed (not really).

*oh and I happen to be using Tencent-Epic Game store right now, so a few more reasons to be wary of them

  • Downloading a Control patch at 1.5 Mbps (I generally see speeds 2x that with Origin, GoG, and Steam)
  • No notes for above-mentioned Patch. What did it fix? What did it add?
  • And as I browse the store, it's honestly one of the worst layouts in the history of online stores.
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BassMan

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#6  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10773 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:
@BassMan said:
@xantufrog said:

Can't say I'm surprised. They've done nothing to show themselves in a good light

They give away free games every week and offer developers an 88/12 split. I would say those are 2 pretty good things.

All moot in the face of their exclusivity practices.

They already said that they would stop doing deals for exclusives if Valve offered the same 88/12 split for developers. So, blame Valve for being greedy cunts.

Epic is trying to take power away from Valve and give it to the developers. The exclusives tactic is a way to accelerate that and put pressure on Valve.

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xantufrog

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#7  Edited By xantufrog  Moderator
Member since 2013 • 11772 Posts

@BassMan: the discussion was about them treating customers poorly, not devs. The discount to devs is all well and good but not part of my point. As for the free games - sure. But it has to be noted that both games they gave me (Axiom Verge and Subnautica) didn't work right but run fine on Steam - even in freaking Linux. So I'm not impressed given the weight of negativity they have amassed by basically every other aspect of their endeavor. Give me GoG any day

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Yams1980

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#8  Edited By Yams1980
Member since 2006 • 3637 Posts

Not getting a refund is the least of your problems.

You installed their epic launcher, its more than likely you are infected with chinese tracking software and malware now.

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BassMan

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#9 BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10773 Posts

@Yams1980 said:

Not getting a refund is the least of your problems.

You installed their epic launcher, its more than likely you are infected with chinese tracking software and malware now.

That's ridiculous. Tim Sweeney is still the majority owner of the company and runs it the way he wants.

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pyro1245

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#10 pyro1245
Member since 2003 • 5395 Posts

@BassMan said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
@BassMan said:
@xantufrog said:

Can't say I'm surprised. They've done nothing to show themselves in a good light

They give away free games every week and offer developers an 88/12 split. I would say those are 2 pretty good things.

All moot in the face of their exclusivity practices.

They already said that they would stop doing deals for exclusives if Valve offered the same 88/12 split for developers. So, blame Valve for being greedy cunts.

Epic is trying to take power away from Valve and give it to the developers. The exclusives tactic is a way to accelerate that and put pressure on Valve.

That's contrary to being a healthy business though. If Steam went an offered that same split then EGS would have more competition and you can bet they would double-down on exclusivity purchases.

It's all PR BS. These companies will do what it takes keep their stock price as high as possible, and what makes them and their investors the most money.

Epic isn't doing this for the good of the industry, and helping developers is currently a 'happy coincidence'.

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BassMan

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#11  Edited By BassMan
Member since 2002 • 10773 Posts

@pyro1245 said:
@BassMan said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
@BassMan said:

They give away free games every week and offer developers an 88/12 split. I would say those are 2 pretty good things.

All moot in the face of their exclusivity practices.

They already said that they would stop doing deals for exclusives if Valve offered the same 88/12 split for developers. So, blame Valve for being greedy cunts.

Epic is trying to take power away from Valve and give it to the developers. The exclusives tactic is a way to accelerate that and put pressure on Valve.

That's contrary to being a healthy business though. If Steam went an offered that same split then EGS would have more competition and you can bet they would double-down on exclusivity purchases.

It's all PR BS. These companies will do what it takes keep their stock price as high as possible, and what makes them and their investors the most money.

Epic isn't doing this for the good of the industry, and helping developers is currently a 'happy coincidence'.

Every company wants to make money. However, Epic has always been about the developers. Their main money maker prior to Fortnite was licensing the Unreal Engine. Epic has done so much for the games industry and now people are making them out to be the bad guy. Let's not forget that many people hated Steam when it came out. Now people freak out when anything is not on Steam. I personally have no issues buying games from other storefronts. Epic Games Launcher will improve over time.

I don't particularly like the idea of exclusives, but there is no monetary barrier for entry with Epic exclusives. It is just a matter of using the client. So, I am OK with it. Having to subscribe to a streaming service or buy a console to gain access to exclusives is much worse.

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04dcarraher

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#12  Edited By 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23254 Posts

EPIC isn't for the "Devs" its the their publishers their mainly targeting, its all about the money plain and simple. The ratio is a ploy to lure publishers/devs to brute force their way into the market. The ratio they offer and the bribes are not sustainable and is a ploy to try to look like their offering something better.

Their tactics are not introducing competition to Valve/steam its segmenting the market into a console like environment.

They are not offering anything better than steam overall,(steam profit ratio goes as low as 80/20 based on sales) While all console manufactures, and all other store fronts still use the 70/30 ratio. Why aren't all those 3rd party devs up in arms for that industry standard. Back in the days before Digital Distribution and retail ruled the roost the profit ratio was much much worse after manufacturing costs.

EPIC strong arming customers into forcing them to use their platform for 3rd party games that were once on multiple store fronts is not cool. And is part of the problem. With all EGS issues lack of features, and EPIC's shady practices and all their ill gotten gains. Is cancerous for PC gaming in general. One thing EGS is good for is allow publishers/devs to promote bad games, ie unfinished or just mediocre titles and prevent the average user to have no voice within that platform.....

People hated steam was because of the issues it introduced. They were the first in the business to introduce a Digital platform on pc they had to create everything form scratch, it had to mature. EPIC with EGS had plenty of templates to follow and time to release a polished platform that didn't require bribes or strong arming tactics to use it.

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pyro1245

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#13 pyro1245
Member since 2003 • 5395 Posts

@BassMan said:
@pyro1245 said:
@BassMan said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
@BassMan said:

They give away free games every week and offer developers an 88/12 split. I would say those are 2 pretty good things.

All moot in the face of their exclusivity practices.

They already said that they would stop doing deals for exclusives if Valve offered the same 88/12 split for developers. So, blame Valve for being greedy cunts.

Epic is trying to take power away from Valve and give it to the developers. The exclusives tactic is a way to accelerate that and put pressure on Valve.

That's contrary to being a healthy business though. If Steam went an offered that same split then EGS would have more competition and you can bet they would double-down on exclusivity purchases.

It's all PR BS. These companies will do what it takes keep their stock price as high as possible, and what makes them and their investors the most money.

Epic isn't doing this for the good of the industry, and helping developers is currently a 'happy coincidence'.

Every company wants to make money. However, Epic has always been about the developers. Their main money maker prior to Fortnite was licensing the Unreal Engine. Epic has done so much for the games industry and now people are making them out to be the bad guy. Let's not forget that many people hated Steam when it came out. Now people freak out when anything is not on Steam. I personally have no issues buying games from other storefronts. Epic Games Launcher will improve over time.

Epic is not for the customers, so they're not for me.

I used to be a fan of Epic, but since then they've canceled UT, shacked up with a Chinese conglomerate, and resorted to tactics I've complained about on consoles for years to gain customers by force.

So they have used up any good will they may have gained and IMO don't deserve any praise for their current.... situation.

You have to think about your customers as a game dev too. EGS as a platform is part of their experience and will help shape the perception of you as a dev. So by focusing on acquiring exclusives instead of improving the platform they are not for the devs either.

Epic isn't just offering a platform - for the most part they are actively denying games unless they agree to exclusivity. Basically I just don't like that and I won't support it.

To be fair I'm not a huge fan of Steam either and could go on a rant about Valve - but their platform works and they don't go out of their way to force people onto it. Steam came out at a time when I would close every other app I could to squeeze performance out of my game - you better believe I was not happy.

I'll keep my eye on EGS and I'll be right there signing the praises if they turn it around.