Would you say the DC expanded universe is better than Marvels?

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#1 Posted by uninspiredcup (32750 posts) -

By that, I don't mean the live action Zack Snyder car-crash, but rather Bruce Timms DC animated universe (and similar straight to DVD animated titles) that started off with Batman: The Animated Series.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_animated_universe#TV_series

Is this better comic book consumption, or just nostalgia with the Marvel live action stuff just better?

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#2 Posted by Archangel3371 (27564 posts) -

No, not for me. I’ve always preferred the Marvel stuff over DC and probably always will. I just find their characters much more interesting in general.

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#3 Edited by Ezekiel43 (1397 posts) -

Been rewatching Batman: The Animated Series on Blu-ray since September. I'm at episode 72. I don't give a crap about Marvel and DC or any of the straight to video releases of Batman (which are fugly) and I never go to any of these movies. But the animated series has so many really good episodes. Part of my blog post about the new release:

I think I like this show mainly because I like what they did with the characters. Some of the best episodes are the ones with emotional or psychological heft. I find the titular two part episode about Two-Face darker than Nolan’s “The Dark Knight,” because of what they did with Harvey Dent’s character, how they handled his psychology, the other violent personality that he has struggled to resist since childhood but which takes over him after his disfigurement. The music and color palette added to that one a lot too. A lot of the villains are sympathetic. It also helps that the show takes itself seriously but not too seriously. Some of the sillier episodes are pretty entertaining too, like “Joker’s Wild” and “Harley and Ivy.”

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#4 Edited by uninspiredcup (32750 posts) -

@ezekiel43 said:

Been rewatching Batman: The Animated Series on Blu-ray since September. I'm at episode 72. I don't give a crap about Marvel and DC or any of the straight to video releases of Batman (which are fugly) and I never go to any of these movies. But the animated series has so many really good episodes. Part of my blog post about the new release:

I think I like this show mainly because I like what they did with the characters. Some of the best episodes are the ones with emotional or psychological heft. I find the titular two part episode about Two-Face darker than Nolan’s “The Dark Knight,” because of what they did with Harvey Dent’s character, how they handled his psychology, the other violent personality that he has struggled to resist since childhood but which takes over him after his disfigurement. The music and color palette added to that one a lot too. A lot of the villains are sympathetic. It also helps that the show takes itself seriously but not too seriously. Some of the sillier episodes are pretty entertaining too, like “Joker’s Wild” and “Harley and Ivy.”

You've never watched Mask Of Phantasm or The Dark Knight Returns? Personally I thought these were superb movies.

The Dark Knight Returns in particular is interesting in that it can directly be compared to Batman VS Superman as both are adaptations of the same thing. Guess which one is better?

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#5 Posted by VagrantSnow (267 posts) -

Marvel live action movies are really good but I do find DC stories and characters a whole lot more interesting.

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#6 Posted by Ezekiel43 (1397 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:
@ezekiel43 said:

Been rewatching Batman: The Animated Series on Blu-ray since September. I'm at episode 72. I don't give a crap about Marvel and DC or any of the straight to video releases of Batman (which are fugly) and I never go to any of these movies. But the animated series has so many really good episodes. Part of my blog post about the new release:

I think I like this show mainly because I like what they did with the characters. Some of the best episodes are the ones with emotional or psychological heft. I find the titular two part episode about Two-Face darker than Nolan’s “The Dark Knight,” because of what they did with Harvey Dent’s character, how they handled his psychology, the other violent personality that he has struggled to resist since childhood but which takes over him after his disfigurement. The music and color palette added to that one a lot too. A lot of the villains are sympathetic. It also helps that the show takes itself seriously but not too seriously. Some of the sillier episodes are pretty entertaining too, like “Joker’s Wild” and “Harley and Ivy.”

You've never watched Mask Of Phantasm or The Dark Knight Returns? Personally I thought these were superb movies.

The Dark Knight Returns in particular is interesting in that it can directly be compared to Batman VS Superman as both are adaptations of the same thing. Guess which one is better?

Mask of the Phantom wasn't straight to video. It opened in cinemas, which is why the animation is so good.

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#7 Edited by uninspiredcup (32750 posts) -

@ezekiel43 said:
@uninspiredcup said:
@ezekiel43 said:

Been rewatching Batman: The Animated Series on Blu-ray since September. I'm at episode 72. I don't give a crap about Marvel and DC or any of the straight to video releases of Batman (which are fugly) and I never go to any of these movies. But the animated series has so many really good episodes. Part of my blog post about the new release:

I think I like this show mainly because I like what they did with the characters. Some of the best episodes are the ones with emotional or psychological heft. I find the titular two part episode about Two-Face darker than Nolan’s “The Dark Knight,” because of what they did with Harvey Dent’s character, how they handled his psychology, the other violent personality that he has struggled to resist since childhood but which takes over him after his disfigurement. The music and color palette added to that one a lot too. A lot of the villains are sympathetic. It also helps that the show takes itself seriously but not too seriously. Some of the sillier episodes are pretty entertaining too, like “Joker’s Wild” and “Harley and Ivy.”

You've never watched Mask Of Phantasm or The Dark Knight Returns? Personally I thought these were superb movies.

The Dark Knight Returns in particular is interesting in that it can directly be compared to Batman VS Superman as both are adaptations of the same thing. Guess which one is better?

Mask of the Phantom wasn't straight to video. It opened in cinemas, which is why the animation is so good.

It opened in the cinema only temporarily before being yanked, literally no one saw it. It become a hit through DVD/Blueray.

Also didn't really answer the question, but that's fine.

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#8 Edited by Ezekiel43 (1397 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:
@ezekiel43 said:
@uninspiredcup said:
@ezekiel43 said:

Been rewatching Batman: The Animated Series on Blu-ray since September. I'm at episode 72. I don't give a crap about Marvel and DC or any of the straight to video releases of Batman (which are fugly) and I never go to any of these movies. But the animated series has so many really good episodes. Part of my blog post about the new release:

I think I like this show mainly because I like what they did with the characters. Some of the best episodes are the ones with emotional or psychological heft. I find the titular two part episode about Two-Face darker than Nolan’s “The Dark Knight,” because of what they did with Harvey Dent’s character, how they handled his psychology, the other violent personality that he has struggled to resist since childhood but which takes over him after his disfigurement. The music and color palette added to that one a lot too. A lot of the villains are sympathetic. It also helps that the show takes itself seriously but not too seriously. Some of the sillier episodes are pretty entertaining too, like “Joker’s Wild” and “Harley and Ivy.”

You've never watched Mask Of Phantasm or The Dark Knight Returns? Personally I thought these were superb movies.

The Dark Knight Returns in particular is interesting in that it can directly be compared to Batman VS Superman as both are adaptations of the same thing. Guess which one is better?

Mask of the Phantom wasn't straight to video. It opened in cinemas, which is why the animation is so good.

It opened in the cinema only temporarily before being yanked, literally no one saw it. It become a hit through DVD/Blueray.

Also didn't really answer the question, but that's fine.

I thought you asked because I said I don't care about the straight to video releases. Yes, I've seen it. I own it. Only theater releases look that good. Haven't seen The Dark Knight Returns, but it has that ugly modern digital look.

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#9 Posted by uninspiredcup (32750 posts) -

@ezekiel43 said:
@uninspiredcup said:
@ezekiel43 said:
@uninspiredcup said:
@ezekiel43 said:

Been rewatching Batman: The Animated Series on Blu-ray since September. I'm at episode 72. I don't give a crap about Marvel and DC or any of the straight to video releases of Batman (which are fugly) and I never go to any of these movies. But the animated series has so many really good episodes. Part of my blog post about the new release:

I think I like this show mainly because I like what they did with the characters. Some of the best episodes are the ones with emotional or psychological heft. I find the titular two part episode about Two-Face darker than Nolan’s “The Dark Knight,” because of what they did with Harvey Dent’s character, how they handled his psychology, the other violent personality that he has struggled to resist since childhood but which takes over him after his disfigurement. The music and color palette added to that one a lot too. A lot of the villains are sympathetic. It also helps that the show takes itself seriously but not too seriously. Some of the sillier episodes are pretty entertaining too, like “Joker’s Wild” and “Harley and Ivy.”

You've never watched Mask Of Phantasm or The Dark Knight Returns? Personally I thought these were superb movies.

The Dark Knight Returns in particular is interesting in that it can directly be compared to Batman VS Superman as both are adaptations of the same thing. Guess which one is better?

Mask of the Phantom wasn't straight to video. It opened in cinemas, which is why the animation is so good.

It opened in the cinema only temporarily before being yanked, literally no one saw it. It become a hit through DVD/Blueray.

Also didn't really answer the question, but that's fine.

I thought you asked because I said I don't care about the straight to video releases. Yes, I've seen it. I own it. Only theater releases look that good.

Was talking about The Dark Knight Returns.

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#10 Posted by Hallenbeck77 (15703 posts) -
@ezekiel43 said:

Been rewatching Batman: The Animated Series on Blu-ray since September. I'm at episode 72. I don't give a crap about Marvel and DC or any of the straight to video releases of Batman (which are fugly) and I never go to any of these movies. But the animated series has so many really good episodes. Part of my blog post about the new release:

I think I like this show mainly because I like what they did with the characters. Some of the best episodes are the ones with emotional or psychological heft. I find the titular two part episode about Two-Face darker than Nolan’s “The Dark Knight,” because of what they did with Harvey Dent’s character, how they handled his psychology, the other violent personality that he has struggled to resist since childhood but which takes over him after his disfigurement. The music and color palette added to that one a lot too. A lot of the villains are sympathetic. It also helps that the show takes itself seriously but not too seriously. Some of the sillier episodes are pretty entertaining too, like “Joker’s Wild” and “Harley and Ivy.”

This series is still evergreen 25 years after it debut. Still have to finish going through my copy as well...

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#11 Posted by mrbojangles25 (43765 posts) -

Marvel live action, DC animated. That's sort of how I do it.

Though there are exceptions, of course, and in the name of fun I can enjoy all of it. But the DC live-action movies, even the best of them, can't match even the ho-hum Marvel movies. As great as Aquaman was, it wasn't half as fun as Thor Dark World

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#12 Posted by npiet1 (2070 posts) -

DC animated films/shows are amazing, I can't count how many times I watched them. I've always wished the people who made them would just take over the live action.

Marvel live action for the most part has been great but I still don't consider them as good though there are exceptions.

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#13 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166332 posts) -

Prefer DC to Marvel in general..........

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#14 Edited by jaydan (2201 posts) -

I'm glad you clarified DC animated over the Zack Snyder trainwreck - although I think DC live-action has been getting better; albeit, the Zack Snyder period will always be a wretched scar in the DCEU legacy no matter how much better they are getting. The only way they could fix such a scar is just gut the current DCEU as a whole and start over from the beginning - but we know that's not going to happen.

I think both DC animation is fantastic as much as the MCU. It's really hard for me to compare because both are entirely different mediums. DC animation has stuck its roots with the lore of DC long ago but Marvel is the first truly successful live-action equivalent as well. Both have their merits.

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#15 Posted by Horgen (120143 posts) -

@mrbojangles25 said:

Marvel live action, DC animated. That's sort of how I do it.

How I feel about it too. Granted I should give Marvel animated a bigger chance than I have up til now. I saw a few seasons of the Justice League (unlimited) and only watched random episodes of different Marvel shows. Those Marvel episodes never caught my interest.

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#16 Posted by mrbojangles25 (43765 posts) -

@horgen said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

Marvel live action, DC animated. That's sort of how I do it.

How I feel about it too. Granted I should give Marvel animated a bigger chance than I have up til now. I saw a few seasons of the Justice League (unlimited) and only watched random episodes of different Marvel shows. Those Marvel episodes never caught my interest.

Planet Hulk is a pretty good animated Marvel movie, it's what Thor Ragnarok is inspired by. That is more or less the only one I can really think of.

Marvel did some "motion comics" which, while full of nice art, are not really animation in the traditional sense so it's not really all that appealing to me, but others might like them.

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#17 Edited by uninspiredcup (32750 posts) -

@jaydan said:

I'm glad you clarified DC animated over the Zack Snyder trainwreck - although I think DC live-action has been getting better; albeit, the Zack Snyder period will always be a wretched scar in the DCEU legacy no matter how much better they are getting. The only way they could fix such a scar is just gut the current DCEU as a whole and start over from the beginning - but we know that's not going to happen.

It's sad really, here we are now, decades later with Spider Man Into The Spider Verse released in a mainstream cinema, lauded and selling tickets, and all this time they were sitting on a rich, dedicated animation team with a real understanding and love for the material, and instead of investing in them beyond straight to DVD that will bring in a few million, they opted to invest in Zynder.

*golf clap*

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#18 Edited by jaydan (2201 posts) -
@uninspiredcup said:
@jaydan said:

I'm glad you clarified DC animated over the Zack Snyder trainwreck - although I think DC live-action has been getting better; albeit, the Zack Snyder period will always be a wretched scar in the DCEU legacy no matter how much better they are getting. The only way they could fix such a scar is just gut the current DCEU as a whole and start over from the beginning - but we know that's not going to happen.

It's sad really, here we are now, decades later with Spider Man Into The Spider Verse released in a mainstream cinema, lauded and selling tickets, and all this time they were sitting on a rich, dedicated animation team with a real understanding and love for the material, and instead of investing in them beyond straight to DVD that will bring in a few million, they opted to invest in Zynder.

*golf clap*

Zack Snyder has been, and always will be, one of the worst directors in Hollywood. He's much worse than Michael Bay, even. Michael Bay at least knows he's a bad director and a good enough sport he's been willing to parody himself over the years. Zack Snyder, though, he thinks he's the shit when he's in fact horrible at everything he's ever tried. Sorry 300 and Watchmen fans, but those are terrible movies too.

The worst thing about Zack Snyder is his petty ego. He has a complete disregard towards the fans of comics that he should be paying closer attention to. Whenever he's brought into question over the quality of his DC movies, his usual response is pointing the finger at the actual comic fans as if the real fans don't know any better than what's he's managed to mess up so badly.

He is literally a prepubescent boy trapped in a grown man's body and your ultimate Hollywood tool. I hope for the reasons why he stepped down from making movies - I hope he just stays out of movie-making entirely. He has proven to be overtly pompous in his ways with making terrible movies he thinks is actually good, and has a piss poor attitude when no one is buying into his high-and-mighty ways.

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#19 Posted by jaydan (2201 posts) -

@uninspiredcup: In hindsight, I'm just glad that DC fanboys seem to have finally snapped back to reality. Back when Suicide Squad came out DC fanboys were caught under some form of hysteria, I think the anti-Marvel hysteria really got to their minds and they went berserk, feeding a perception to the studios that they actually wanted to see more atrocious movies like Suicide Squad. DC fanboys at the time blew up the internet, and movie sites like IMDB especially got it harsh. DC fanboys are for the most part, the reason why IMDB no longer has forums to post on. I was a poster on IMDB at the time and that period things were truly nasty until IMDB declared the forum community was too "toxic" for them to want to carry forums any further.

But then the train-wreck that was Justice League finally got the best of them and I think maybe - just maybe - DC fanboys are finally back to reality and will no longer take the kind of filth that the Zack Snyder period kept crapping out onto their plates. I think we're on a pretty good streak now with the quality of DCEU films going up. Hopefully things stay that way, and DC fans must learn the lesson that they can be vocal over what is and isn't acceptable in how their movies are portrayed. Maybe we'll finally get to see both DC and Marvel respectably have their own quality shared-universes.

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#20 Edited by uninspiredcup (32750 posts) -

@jaydan said:

@uninspiredcup: In hindsight, I'm just glad that DC fanboys seem to have finally snapped back to reality. Back when Suicide Squad came out DC fanboys were caught under some form of hysteria, I think the anti-Marvel hysteria really got to their minds and they went berserk, feeding a perception to the studios that they actually wanted to see more atrocious movies like Suicide Squad. DC fanboys at the time blew up the internet, and movie sites like IMDB especially got it harsh. DC fanboys are for the most part, the reason why IMDB no longer has forums to post on. I was a poster on IMDB at the time and that period things were truly nasty until IMDB declared the forum community was too "toxic" for them to want to carry forums any further.

But then the train-wreck that was Justice League finally got the best of them and I think maybe - just maybe - DC fanboys are finally back to reality and will no longer take the kind of filth that the Zack Snyder period kept crapping out onto their plates. I think we're on a pretty good streak now with the quality of DCEU films going up. Hopefully things stay that way, and DC fans must learn the lesson that they can be vocal over what is and isn't acceptable in how their movies are portrayed. Maybe we'll finally get to see both DC and Marvel respectably have their own quality shared-universes.

Edgy hot-take unpopular opinion - I've argued even Joel Schumacher is better. Most of the bad stuff in Batman Forever and the infamous Batman And Robin was down to studio pressure dictating what he should be doing, I think at least visually, Batman Forever does a good job, at the very least, of looking like a comic-book come to life. And the idea behind it, is nice, it has a shit ton of content chopped out because the studio purposefully wanted it to be a kid friendly as possible.

Basically, the best scene in the movie is removed. And an entire ploline that explains the whole Bruce Wayne flashback thing and makes the ending, make sense.

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Originally Joel Schumacher wanted to do something more in the tone of the first two movies. And, probably would have been better than those as well I think. Unlike Batman 89 or Returns (which really isn't a Batman movie at all), Batman Forever was about the character of Batman and an origin story for Robin. Where as Batman is mainly about The Joker, and Returns, again, mainly about Catwoman and The Penguin.

It wasn't really until Mask Of Phantasm that you had a Batman movie, actually abut fucking Batman lol - But again, Forever had elements of it, all chopped out. Bruce Wayne reconciling his role in tandem with the origin story of Robin, - challenged through two face who resents Batman and the Riddler, who resents Bruce Wayne. That's interesting thematically, at least in theory.

Imagine there is probably a Phantom Menace thing floating about where they recut it to add stuff and remove the dumb shit.

https://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/batman-forever/46489/batman-forever-the-version-we-never-got-to-see

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#21 Posted by Horgen (120143 posts) -

@mrbojangles25 said:

Planet Hulk is a pretty good animated Marvel movie, it's what Thor Ragnarok is inspired by. That is more or less the only one I can really think of.

Marvel did some "motion comics" which, while full of nice art, are not really animation in the traditional sense so it's not really all that appealing to me, but others might like them.

I dunno about giving animated Hulk a chance.

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#22 Posted by mrbojangles25 (43765 posts) -

@jaydan said:

@uninspiredcup: In hindsight, I'm just glad that DC fanboys seem to have finally snapped back to reality. Back when Suicide Squad came out DC fanboys were caught under some form of hysteria, I think the anti-Marvel hysteria really got to their minds and they went berserk, feeding a perception to the studios that they actually wanted to see more atrocious movies like Suicide Squad. DC fanboys at the time blew up the internet, and movie sites like IMDB especially got it harsh. DC fanboys are for the most part, the reason why IMDB no longer has forums to post on. I was a poster on IMDB at the time and that period things were truly nasty until IMDB declared the forum community was too "toxic" for them to want to carry forums any further.

But then the train-wreck that was Justice League finally got the best of them and I think maybe - just maybe - DC fanboys are finally back to reality and will no longer take the kind of filth that the Zack Snyder period kept crapping out onto their plates. I think we're on a pretty good streak now with the quality of DCEU films going up. Hopefully things stay that way, and DC fans must learn the lesson that they can be vocal over what is and isn't acceptable in how their movies are portrayed. Maybe we'll finally get to see both DC and Marvel respectably have their own quality shared-universes.

Marvel has simply been killing it, period. Every movie they've made in the MCU has been, at the very list, a decently-made movie and highly entertaining. At best, they're cinematic masterpieces with great acting, action sequences mixed with drama and humor, changes of tone (depending on the character, movie) that fit well, and pay homage to the source material. Sometimes even better.

The whole anti-Marvel thing is people just having that nonsensical, innate desire to hate on what is best, because it's so popular they suspect a conspiracy, ill-dealings, and much dumber things.

You see this going on with proponents of the Tencent-Epic Game Store and their irrational hated of Steam, to give a video game analogue. And we've been seeing it with DC fans lacking any objective footing in their desire to see something that is clearly better (the MCU) dethroned. They don't have the self-confidence and faith to simply say "DC isn't as good and that's OK, because I like DC better than Marvel, and that is also OK"....no, they have to have some reason to like it other than "just cuz".

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#23 Posted by Speeny (1505 posts) -

I prefer the Marvel universe myself. Only DC superhero I'm interested in is Batman. Pretty much period. Lol

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#24 Posted by HEATHEN75 (665 posts) -

DC currently makes better comic books than Marvel.

DC has always been in front of Marvel when it comes to animated offerings.

Marvel can do no wrong movie wise while DC is just now starting to show promise.

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#25 Posted by Nuck81 (7409 posts) -

DCAU is stupendous. You can thank Bruce timm for that

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#26 Edited by uninspiredcup (32750 posts) -

@Nuck81 said:

DCAU is stupendous. You can thank Bruce timm for that

I would say Shirley Walker as well, watching some of the later stuff, namely Justice League, it becomes apparent just how much the music score contributed to the shows, and especially MOTP - not to say that Lolita Ritmanis etc... were bad, but I definitely noticed the difference.

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