will the U.S. fall like Rome?

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biggerdjam

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#1 biggerdjam
Member since 2011 • 372 Posts

discuss

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deactivated-5b78379493e12

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#2 deactivated-5b78379493e12
Member since 2005 • 15625 Posts

I see if fading in global power like the European countries did, mostly England.

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Laihendi

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#3 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5871 Posts
I am not expecting DC to be sacked by barbarians, if that's what you mean.
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champion837

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#4 champion837
Member since 2012 • 1423 Posts

I am not expecting DC to be sacked by barbarians, if that's what you mean.Laihendi

:lol: This

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Darthkaiser

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#5 Darthkaiser
Member since 2006 • 12447 Posts
I can say I see it being replaced but as this guy said
I am not expecting DC to be sacked by barbarians, if that's what you mean.Laihendi
I don't see that^^ happening lol
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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#6 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

Which Rome? The Kingdom, the Republic or the Empire?

i can see it fall like the republic, since obama = caesar

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Yusuke420

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#7 Yusuke420
Member since 2012 • 2770 Posts

No, simply because the USA can't be invaded by outside forces without M.A.D. taking the entire world with it. Economically, things will get better. Once we have a deal in place to deal with the deficit, businesses will once again start to expand and consumer confidence will continue to grow. Our next step should be to propose a new payroll tax in order to make community college level education free to everyone who wants to learn. That will increase our pool of skilled workers at the same time business will start to need more skill labor to facilite expansion.

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Jebus213

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#9 Jebus213
Member since 2010 • 10056 Posts
Our next step should be to propose a new payroll tax in order to make community college level education free to everyone who wants to learn.Yusuke420
Conservative sh!tstorm in 3....2....1...
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_BlueDuck_

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#12 _BlueDuck_
Member since 2003 • 11986 Posts

Probably more like the British Empire.. still kicking in some form but no longer the world hegemon

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Rhazakna

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#13 Rhazakna
Member since 2004 • 11022 Posts
Not only will the US fall, the Nation State itself is slowly becoming irrelevant. Nation States will eventually cease to exist, replaced by something far worse, I fear.
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coolbeans90

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#14 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

the Nation State itself is slowly becoming irrelevant.Rhazakna

Just curious, would you care to elaborate upon this point a bit?

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Laihendi

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#15 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5871 Posts

Which Rome? The Kingdom, the Republic or the Empire?

i can see it fall like the republic, since obama = caesar

Aljosa23

FDR was America's Caesar. A horrible president.

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jun_aka_pekto

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#16 jun_aka_pekto
Member since 2010 • 25254 Posts

I see if fading in global power like the European countries did, mostly England.

jimkabrhel

I think so too. I have no problems if the US faded from the world scene. I have a quiet lifestyle anyway.

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SaudiFury

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#17 SaudiFury
Member since 2007 • 8709 Posts
Not only will the US fall, the Nation State itself is slowly becoming irrelevant. Nation States will eventually cease to exist, replaced by something far worse, I fear.Rhazakna
are you thinking like those cyberpunk dystopian futures where we live under multinational corporations rather then a government?
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Socialist696

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#18 Socialist696
Member since 2012 • 558 Posts
The US is showing alot of the same symptoms that the middle to late Roman Empire showed before it began its collapse. The Romans had poor fiscal management, a failing economic system and fiscal deficit (not surplus), their military was powerful but costly and too stretched out to adequately defend the borders (not a issue with America really), and they had one HUGE issue. They had NO cultural unity. They weren't just "the Romans" they were Romans, Oscans, Samnites, Greeks, Gauls, Iberians, Carthaginians, Easterners, etc etc so they had no true sense of national unity. Much like how America has no unity (racially, culturally) and like the Romans, many Americans today can care less about the country just like the Roman people did before their collapse. Now, the Romans fell for a array of reasons beyond those (barbarian migrations, poor political leadership, division of the Empire, etc etc) but we modern Americans do share some of the same traits as a collapsing Rome so I do believe it is VERY possible for America to fall like Rome, although actually invaded and conquered is another story.
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coolbeans90

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#19 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

The US is showing alot of the same symptoms that the middle to late Roman Empire showed before it began its collapse. The Romans had poor fiscal management, a failing economic system and fiscal deficit (not surplus), their military was powerful but costlySocialist696

Yeah, then the Jews decided not to continue purchasing Roman debt, which resulted in Roman inability to pay its interest obligations, which led the the fiscal collapse of the Roman Empire.

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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#20 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

FDR was America's Caesar. A horrible president.

Laihendi

America never had the 22nd amendment at that time.

edit: Just saw your edit. Caesar was anything but horrible and FDR is a top 3 Pres.

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SPYDER0416

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#21 SPYDER0416
Member since 2008 • 16736 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

FDR was America's Caesar. A horrible president.

Aljosa23

America never had the 22nd amendment at that time.

edit: Just saw your edit. Caesar was anything but horrible and FDR is a top 3 Pres.

Yeah, calling Caesar or FDR horrible is either blatant trolling or historical ignorance on a monumental level.

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Trinitarian

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#22 Trinitarian
Member since 2007 • 1407 Posts
Well i;m no history buff, but didn't Rome last for around 800 years? And US is around 200 plus years old. Thus, my ruff calculations suggest if we fall "like Rome" then we got around 600 years left, give or take 50, which means if it did fall "like Rome" i can give one set of donkey balls or a bunnies ass if it does.
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surrealnumber5

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#23 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
no, it will fall like nothing seen before, as it is something never seen before.
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surrealnumber5

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#24 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

FDR was America's Caesar. A horrible president.

SPYDER0416

America never had the 22nd amendment at that time.

edit: Just saw your edit. Caesar was anything but horrible and FDR is a top 3 Pres.

Yeah, calling Caesar or FDR horrible is either blatant trolling or historical ignorance on a monumental level.

sticking citizens in concentration camps, what a hero......

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deactivated-5b78379493e12

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#25 deactivated-5b78379493e12
Member since 2005 • 15625 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

FDR was America's Caesar. A horrible president.

Aljosa23

America never had the 22nd amendment at that time.

edit: Just saw your edit. Caesar was anything but horrible and FDR is a top 3 Pres.

Laihendi doesn't like anything, so it's pointless trying to discuss. Unless you want arguments and insults, which can be a laugh.

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Rhazakna

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#26 Rhazakna
Member since 2004 • 11022 Posts

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]the Nation State itself is slowly becoming irrelevant.coolbeans90

Just curious, would you care to elaborate upon this point a bit?

It's a big topic. For starters, the Nation State is a relatively modern phenomenon. The state itself is always transforming in some way as power structures change and get more complicated. I think we are in the very early days of the Nation State fading from prominence. On the one hand we have organizations like the EU grabbing more power as public opinion shifts against them, not less. On the other hand we have massive corporations whose economic power is already greater than many modern nations. The corporatism of the West has seemingly no end in sight. Not only that, but the consumerist culture of the West has come to the point where corporate brands of different kinds define individual identity far more than nationality. Consumerism has beaten Nationalism in the West, and we're just now seeing the beginning stages of what that means. I think in 150 years, max, corporate and state power will be completely indistinguishable. The West's culture, economy and even foreign policy is already defined by corporatism largely. It may not even take that long.
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Laihendi

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#27 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5871 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

FDR was America's Caesar. A horrible president.

Aljosa23

America never had the 22nd amendment at that time.

FDR tried to pass a bill that would allow him to pack the supreme court with up to 6 new judges when the supreme court started ruling against his new deal policies.
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caseypayne69

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#28 caseypayne69
Member since 2002 • 5395 Posts
If the US fails, I'll live to the UK. But I love it here for now. I live in Kentucky.
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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#29 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

FDR was America's Caesar. A horrible president.

Laihendi

America never had the 22nd amendment at that time.

FDR tried to pass a bill that would allow him to pack the supreme court with up to 6 new judges when the supreme court started ruling against his new deal policies.

Yeah he tried and failed, but then managed to control SCOTUS in a constitutional way. In retrospect it's not that bad considering all the good that came out of the New Deal.

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Laihendi

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#30 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5871 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]America never had the 22nd amendment at that time.

Aljosa23

FDR tried to pass a bill that would allow him to pack the supreme court with up to 6 new judges when the supreme court started ruling against his new deal policies.

Yeah he tried and failed, but then managed to control SCOTUS in a constitutional way. In retrospect it's not that bad considering all the good that came out of the New Deal.

What good came out of the new deal?
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surrealnumber5

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#31 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

If the US fails, I'll live to the UK. But I love it here for now. I live in Kentucky.caseypayne69
the us wont fall until the world decided it is no longer the reserve currency, or after europe including the UK.

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Rhazakna

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#32 Rhazakna
Member since 2004 • 11022 Posts
If the US fails, I'll live to the UK. But I love it here for now. I live in Kentucky.caseypayne69
The UK is going to be in huge trouble over the next several decades.
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coolbeans90

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#33 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]America never had the 22nd amendment at that time.

Aljosa23

FDR tried to pass a bill that would allow him to pack the supreme court with up to 6 new judges when the supreme court started ruling against his new deal policies.

Yeah he tried and failed, but then managed to control SCOTUS in a constitutional way. In retrospect it's not that bad considering all the good that came out of the New Deal.

I'ma say that executive stacking of the highest legal power of the land would have set a p. bad precedent.

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Rhazakna

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#34 Rhazakna
Member since 2004 • 11022 Posts
[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]Not only will the US fall, the Nation State itself is slowly becoming irrelevant. Nation States will eventually cease to exist, replaced by something far worse, I fear.SaudiFury
are you thinking like those cyberpunk dystopian futures where we live under multinational corporations rather then a government?

Not quite. I think that state power structures will become increasingly indistinguishable from corporate power structures, until we get to the point where we are in a literal corporate-State/ Corporatist consumerism is the most powerful cultural force in the west already. It's only a matter of time, really.
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surrealnumber5

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#35 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]America never had the 22nd amendment at that time.

Aljosa23

FDR tried to pass a bill that would allow him to pack the supreme court with up to 6 new judges when the supreme court started ruling against his new deal policies.

Yeah he tried and failed, but then managed to control SCOTUS in a constitutional way. In retrospect it's not that bad considering all the good that came out of the New Deal.

burning fields of grain and slaughtering herds of cattle just to let them rot in the fields to drive up food prices as people starved was a good thing? YAY new deal *face palm"

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Rhazakna

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#36 Rhazakna
Member since 2004 • 11022 Posts
FDR's legacy is the solidification of what would become the modern warfare state. Also, the continuation of the proud American tradition of marginalizing and smearing anti-war movements. Oh, and FDR is also one of the key figures to draw leftists into the mainstream, thereby contributing to the slow, agonizing death of libertarian-socialism. USA! USA!
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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#37 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] FDR tried to pass a bill that would allow him to pack the supreme court with up to 6 new judges when the supreme court started ruling against his new deal policies.Laihendi

Yeah he tried and failed, but then managed to control SCOTUS in a constitutional way. In retrospect it's not that bad considering all the good that came out of the New Deal.

What good came out of the new deal?

Social security, labour unions, upgraded infrastracture and all that. I already know what you're gonna say so it's pointless talking to you.

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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#38 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] FDR tried to pass a bill that would allow him to pack the supreme court with up to 6 new judges when the supreme court started ruling against his new deal policies.surrealnumber5

Yeah he tried and failed, but then managed to control SCOTUS in a constitutional way. In retrospect it's not that bad considering all the good that came out of the New Deal.

burning fields of grain and slaughtering herds of cattle just to let them rot in the fields to drive up food prices as people starved was a good thing? YAY new deal *face palm"

Because I totally said only good stuff came out of it. yay for reading comprehension

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Fightingfan

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#39 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts
With gay marriage becoming legal prolly.
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LJS9502_basic

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#40 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 168218 Posts
I wouldn't bet on it.....
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surrealnumber5

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#41 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]Yeah he tried and failed, but then managed to control SCOTUS in a constitutional way. In retrospect it's not that bad considering all the good that came out of the New Deal.

burning fields of grain and slaughtering herds of cattle just to let them rot in the fields to drive up food prices as people starved was a good thing? YAY new deal *face palm"

Because I totally said only good stuff came out of it. yay for reading comprehension

to use intwebz lingo, fail bait is fail.
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BossPerson

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#42 BossPerson
Member since 2011 • 9177 Posts

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

FDR was America's Caesar. A horrible president.

SPYDER0416

America never had the 22nd amendment at that time.

edit: Just saw your edit. Caesar was anything but horrible and FDR is a top 3 Pres.

Yeah, calling Caesar or FDR horrible is either blatant trolling or historical ignorance on a monumental level.

Caesar was a good guy? He would kill entire villages, cities as he conquered them. He was a mass murderer
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surrealnumber5

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#43 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="SPYDER0416"]

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]America never had the 22nd amendment at that time.

edit: Just saw your edit. Caesar was anything but horrible and FDR is a top 3 Pres.

Yeah, calling Caesar or FDR horrible is either blatant trolling or historical ignorance on a monumental level.

Caesar was a good guy? He would kill entire villages, cities as he conquered them. He was a mass murderer

so was FDR, point?
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#44 BossPerson
Member since 2011 • 9177 Posts
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="SPYDER0416"]

Yeah, calling Caesar or FDR horrible is either blatant trolling or historical ignorance on a monumental level.

Caesar was a good guy? He would kill entire villages, cities as he conquered them. He was a mass murderer

so was FDR, point?

i was going to mention that actually. But idk, ww2 was a crazy time. You sort of get a pass for burning civilian neighborhoods to a crisp (half serious)
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Laihendi

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#45 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5871 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]Yeah he tried and failed, but then managed to control SCOTUS in a constitutional way. In retrospect it's not that bad considering all the good that came out of the New Deal.

Aljosa23

What good came out of the new deal?

Social security, labour unions, upgraded infrastracture and all that. I already know what you're gonna say so it's pointless talking to you.

The fact that nobody is willing to fix a road or bridge unless the government hires someone shows the inherent problem with government ownership of infrastructure. Everything government buys is bought with money it takes by force from its constituency. The government forced people to fund having something upgraded, regardless of whether there was enough of a demand to justify upgrading it.

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Laihendi

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#46 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5871 Posts

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

FDR was America's Caesar. A horrible president.

SPYDER0416

America never had the 22nd amendment at that time.

edit: Just saw your edit. Caesar was anything but horrible and FDR is a top 3 Pres.

Yeah, calling Caesar or FDR horrible is either blatant trolling or historical ignorance on a monumental level.

Please explain what was good about Caesar completely destroying the concept of checks and balances and establishing himself as a permanent and absolute dictator.
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LJS9502_basic

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#47 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 168218 Posts

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] What good came out of the new deal?Laihendi

Social security, labour unions, upgraded infrastracture and all that. I already know what you're gonna say so it's pointless talking to you.

The fact that nobody is willing to fix a road or bridge unless the government hires someone shows the inherent problem with government ownership of infrastructure. Everything government buys is bought with money it takes by force from its constituency. The government forced people to fund having something upgraded, regardless of whether there was enough of a demand to justify upgrading it.

You really are clueless. Not all municipalities are profitable. How do you expect them to pay for road repair when they don't have the money?
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chessmaster1989

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#48 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30204 Posts

FDR's legacy is the solidification of what would become the modern warfare state. Also, the continuation of the proud American tradition of marginalizing and smearing anti-war movements. Oh, and FDR is also one of the key figures to draw leftists into the mainstream, thereby contributing to the slow, agonizing death of libertarian-socialism. USA! USA!Rhazakna

And for that I think he should be recognized as one of our nation's greatest presidents. :P

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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#49 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] What good came out of the new deal?Laihendi

Social security, labour unions, upgraded infrastracture and all that. I already know what you're gonna say so it's pointless talking to you.

The fact that nobody is willing to fix a road or bridge unless the government hires someone shows the inherent problem with government ownership of infrastructure. Everything government buys is bought with money it takes by force from its constituency.

I stopped reading there. Don't you get tired of parroting the same talking points 24/7?

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deactivated-598fc45371265

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#50 deactivated-598fc45371265
Member since 2008 • 13247 Posts

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]Not only will the US fall, the Nation State itself is slowly becoming irrelevant. Nation States will eventually cease to exist, replaced by something far worse, I fear.SaudiFury
are you thinking like those cyberpunk dystopian futures where we live under multinational corporations rather then a government?

At least I'll get a cool cybernetic hand or something.