Why is spiritual belief such a valued currency?

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R-Gamer

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#51 R-Gamer
Member since 2019 • 1555 Posts

@br0kenrabbit: No I just want those who preach equality to know what true equality means.

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br0kenrabbit

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#52  Edited By br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 16317 Posts

@r-gamer said:

@br0kenrabbit: No I just want those who preach equality to know what true equality means.

I like to refer often to our founding fathers. Ben Franklin is probably the most often quoted, but I find Thomas Jefferson to have the juiciest tidbits.

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787


I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789 (Richard Price had written to TJ on Oct. 26. about the harm done by religion and wrote "Would not Society be better without Such religions? Is Atheism less pernicious than Demonism?")

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mrbojangles25

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#53 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 45619 Posts

@br0kenrabbit said:
@shellcase86 said:

Well, according to most of these posts, OP, it isn't.

Because everyone is taking the secondary question and answering it and not the primary. The primary question is as quoted:

@br0kenrabbit said:

If there was an all-knowing, all-powerful supreme being (there isn't), why would he care whether or not you believed?

Maybe the all-knowing being is magically sustained by belief. Maybe this being has an ego, and needs the satisfaction of being acknowledged.

I don't know, I'm not religious and I'm not that spiritual, just throwing those out there.

I mean, there's as many answers for this question as there is creativity in the world; in other words, a limitless supply of answers.

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Dariency

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#54 Dariency
Member since 2003 • 9425 Posts

Religion is all faith based. They believe if you don't have faith then you will never understand it and never see the "light". You have to just trust and have the faith that what you believe in is true, and if that's you then great. I believe that if you don't truly trust or have faith in something then you shouldn't believe it. You're just wasting your time and everyone elses.

That being said, I truly believe that a lot of people who call themselves Christian aren't really Christian. In the Christian faith, you're supposed to dedicate your life to god and adopt a Christian lifestyle, and a lot of people aren't doing that. Some claim that all you have to do is believe in Jesus and that's it, you're saved. Is it really that easy? That's not how I was raised. The Christianity of today seems like a big joke and is more about who has the biggest congregation and the biggest church. Sure you have your few hardcore Christians, but these would be viewed as extremists by most.

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shellcase86

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#55 shellcase86
Member since 2012 • 4619 Posts

@br0kenrabbit said:
@shellcase86 said:

Well, according to most of these posts, OP, it isn't.

Because everyone is taking the secondary question and answering it and not the primary. The primary question is as quoted:

@br0kenrabbit said:

If there was an all-knowing, all-powerful supreme being (there isn't), why would he care whether or not you believed?

Answering your primary question is simple: IF there is an all powerful supreme being, he would care about your beliefs. You are his creation, after all.

Have you ever made anything with your own two hands? You tend to value you it, despite how trivial it might seem.

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uninspiredcup

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#56  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 37548 Posts

@shellcase86 said:
@br0kenrabbit said:
@shellcase86 said:

Well, according to most of these posts, OP, it isn't.

Because everyone is taking the secondary question and answering it and not the primary. The primary question is as quoted:

@br0kenrabbit said:

If there was an all-knowing, all-powerful supreme being (there isn't), why would he care whether or not you believed?

Answering your primary question is simple: IF there is an all powerful supreme being, he would care about your beliefs. You are his creation, after all.

Have you ever made anything with your own two hands? You tend to value you it, despite how trivial it might seem.

I like how we always equate god or "the creator" as something on our level.

I'm sure if there was "a creator" in this vast, vast universe where our planet isn't even a grain of sand and we've barely existed, it's comprehension would be well, well beyond anything our little brains could drum up.

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HEATHEN75

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#57 HEATHEN75
Member since 2018 • 1005 Posts

@shellcase86 said:
@br0kenrabbit said:
@shellcase86 said:

Well, according to most of these posts, OP, it isn't.

Because everyone is taking the secondary question and answering it and not the primary. The primary question is as quoted:

@br0kenrabbit said:

If there was an all-knowing, all-powerful supreme being (there isn't), why would he care whether or not you believed?

Answering your primary question is simple: IF there is an all powerful supreme being, he would care about your beliefs. You are his creation, after all.

Have you ever made anything with your own two hands? You tend to value you it, despite how trivial it might seem.

Maybe god is a deadbeat dad and doesn't care about his creations.

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thehig1

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#58 thehig1
Member since 2014 • 7410 Posts

@shellcase86: there are people who make something and dont care about what they made.

I made a big turd and dropped it off into the toilet, I didn't care about it.

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Dariency

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#59 Dariency
Member since 2003 • 9425 Posts

@shellcase86 said:
@br0kenrabbit said:

Because everyone is taking the secondary question and answering it and not the primary. The primary question is as quoted:

@br0kenrabbit said:

If there was an all-knowing, all-powerful supreme being (there isn't), why would he care whether or not you believed?

Answering your primary question is simple: IF there is an all powerful supreme being, he would care about your beliefs. You are his creation, after all.

Have you ever made anything with your own two hands? You tend to value you it, despite how trivial it might seem.

I think a better question to ask is why a god would create anything. Supposedly, god has always been; He had no beginning. But we did have a beginning, and so has the entire universe. Logic would suggest that there was a time when god was entirely by himself with no creation. What gave him the desire to create? Is it reasonable to assume that an all-powerful god could desire anything at all? If so, why does he then desire (or demand) our belief and service to him? It doesn't make sense to me, but on the other hand maybe it isn't supposed to. I am just a mere mortal human, after all.

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MirkoS77

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#60  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 14785 Posts

@br0kenrabbit said:

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787


That is brilliantly eloquent, I wish we had men who spoke like this today.

I can't believe we've fallen from this to Trump. What an absolute disgrace and embarrassment.

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LeftRightDivide

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#61  Edited By LeftRightDivide
Member since 2020 • 28 Posts

It's such a valued currency because it's what makes things happen in the world.

Belief is the most powerful force in the world. That's why organised religions and governments treasure it so highly. It's why propaganda exists, to mold and shape what people believe in.

Believing in a government or organised religion, give that institution influence and sway.

It's why most people will be ordinary, they put all their belief externally and lack belief internally.

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uninspiredcup

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#62 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 37548 Posts

@leftrightdivide said:

It's such a valued currency because it's what makes things happen in the world.

Belief is the most powerful force in the world. That's why organised religions and governments treasure it so highly. It's why propaganda exists, to mold and shape what people believe in.

Believing in a government or organised religion, give that institution influence and sway.

It's why most people will be ordinary, they put all their belief externally and lack belief internally.

What a fantastic post.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#63 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 11056 Posts

I often take for granted that I was raised in a non-religious household and don't live in the Bible belt. People value faith because it let's them live in a certain amount of ignorance. That's comfortable to them, thinking they know the answers to everything.

Once people start leaning on faith to get an argument across you know they're done reasoning.

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MirkoS77

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#64  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 14785 Posts

@leftrightdivide said:

It's such a valued currency because it's what makes things happen in the world.

Belief is the most powerful force in the world. That's why organised religions and governments treasure it so highly. It's why propaganda exists, to mold and shape what people believe in.

Believing in a government or organised religion, give that institution influence and sway.

It's why most people will be ordinary, they put all their belief externally and lack belief internally.

There's a vast difference between believing in something and having faith in something, the latter of which religion is contingent upon.

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Ovirew

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#65 Ovirew
Member since 2008 • 9362 Posts

People want discipline, hope, reason, purpose and many other things that religion can give them.

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LeftRightDivide

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#66 LeftRightDivide
Member since 2020 • 28 Posts

@MirkoS77 said:
@leftrightdivide said:

It's such a valued currency because it's what makes things happen in the world.

Belief is the most powerful force in the world. That's why organised religions and governments treasure it so highly. It's why propaganda exists, to mold and shape what people believe in.

Believing in a government or organised religion, give that institution influence and sway.

It's why most people will be ordinary, they put all their belief externally and lack belief internally.

There's a vast difference between believing in something and having faith in something, the latter of which religion is contingent upon.

Consider the statement "restoring your faith in ….", in this context faith and belief are very similar.

However I believe you brought this up because you view religion in a negative light.

I would say to you that the bureaucracy that has sprung up around religions are not the spiritual truths that are found in it's teachings.

The bureaucracy wants you to believe in it because they know it's power. If you believe in the bureaucracy, you give it power. This is why the bureaucracy throws a veil over those truths because they want you to believe in them and not in yourself.

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sonicare

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#67 sonicare
Member since 2004 • 57180 Posts

Spirituality is not quite the same thing as religion. As for religion being used to control people, I suppose it depends on the religion and the person. That's an incredibly broad sweeping declaration to make.

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thehig1

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#68 thehig1
Member since 2014 • 7410 Posts

@MirkoS77: isnt faith just a reason to beleive, its not a logically sound reason but its still a reason.