Why do some of you hate on The Last Jedi with a passion?

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#1 Posted by carljohnsonCJ (505 posts) -

It had epic over the top star wars action, cinematography, mark hamill's best. Yet i see some of you hating on The Last Jedi with a passion.

Why?

Well?

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#2 Posted by Serraph105 (33976 posts) -

People's impassioned hate helped fuel my passionate love of the movie.

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#3 Posted by brimmul777 (4117 posts) -

I haven't seen any of the Star Wars movies in recent years,but I am still curious into watching them a little bit.

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#4 Edited by PETERAKO (2167 posts) -

@carljohnsoncj: There is an enormous amount of videos on youtube about it like this one or this one or this one or this one or this one and many more that you can turn to in order to learn in a well articulated, reasonable way why there is an issue.

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#5 Posted by GarGx1 (10929 posts) -

So, so many reasons and none of them are politically infused, from vertical bombers in space, The Orders' general (surely he should have been an admiral?) being completely and utterly incompetent and made into a laughing point, the Rebellions' stand in "commander" being completely and utterly incompetent all the way to Luke (the ultimate good guy that literally saved one of the most iconic, legendary bad guys in cinematic history and brought him to the light side) trying to kill his somewhat naughty nephew, etc. etc. etc.

The entire story is complete and utter trash, so much so that I doubt even JJ Abrams can salvage it (not that The Force Awakens was much more than a re-hash of A New Hope anyway)

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#6 Edited by uninspiredcup (34401 posts) -

- Luke is miserable, fails, then dies

- Snoke has no story he's "evil man"

- Rehashed ROTJ/Empire scenes

- B-story

- Forced humour

- Rey isn't a character, she's a do anything propped up because of gender and little else, check out Ahsoka, that's a good female character with development, conflict, resolution, connection, emotional weight etc...

- No emotional weight. Rey has no connection to Luke. Darth Reddit has no connection to her. All forced.

- The fight scenes suck

- I hate wookies

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#7 Edited by Macutchi (6855 posts) -

i watched it at the cinema and came away thinking, aside from the leia mary poppins bit, that i really liked it.

then i watched it again at home a few months later and i picked up on a lot of stuff that i missed first time round at the cinema, which i can only assume was because i got swept up in the excitement and euphoria of a brand new star wars instalment. or one too many beers. or i'm a little slow. take your pick.

it's not a bad film. but over the top star wars action and cinematography can only get you so far. there were tons of plot oddities, inconsistencies and anti-climaxes within strands of the story that had been built up, some from the previous film, but ultimately ended in nothing. just all a bit unsatisfying upon reflection.

still better than solo

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#8 Posted by Chutebox (44703 posts) -

Because it was a terrible movie.

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#9 Posted by Chutebox (44703 posts) -

@GarGx1: "from vertical bombers in space" haha, I never even thought of that!

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#10 Posted by SaltSlasher (1244 posts) -

@uninspiredcup: When you put it that way.....Ok I don't think its that good.

Ahsoka was fucking boss, he story arc was impressive.

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#11 Edited by Jag85 (13600 posts) -

I felt The Force Awakens also had some similar issues that were largely overlooked due to all the hype. I felt the biggest weakness with TFA was the protagonist, Rey, who came across as a poorly-written character.

However, she did remind me of Nausicaa (from Hayao Miyazaki's anime movie Nausicaa), who was a great female protagonist, but Rey comes across as a pale imitation.

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#12 Posted by FireEmblem_Man (19803 posts) -

Rey is a complete Mary Sue, seems to have no weakness and somehow masters the Force at a short amount of time. Rose Tico, was a new character that felt forced and unrelatable as well as unlikable. Luke felt weak and uninspired as well as Leia.

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#13 Posted by sakaiXx (5928 posts) -

I hate the movie because it kind of destroys some mechanics that were established in previous star wars movie. The one that I hate the most is the lightspeed ram. If that ram is so powerful it could destroy a whole army, there is no reason for spaceship battles in the Clone Wars or Death Star to be made. It literally broke star wars for me.

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#14 Posted by johnd13 (9773 posts) -

After TFA built up anticipation for Luke's return, he was eventually presented as a pathetic old man that turned his back on everyone he loved. He never even left that goddamn island.

Fin was wasted on that silly and meaningless arc with Rose.

Supreme Leader Snoke was set up as the new villain mastermind but was (ridiculously) killed without ever developing his character and unraveling the mystery surrounding him.

There were a bunch of other obvious inconsistencies and plot holes I'm not even going to bother with.

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#15 Posted by one_plum (6563 posts) -

Things I liked:
- Luke's portrayal: I actually liked how he was portrayed. Sure, he could have been a badass Jedi master, but I liked how they showed that even a hero who once seemed to have accomplished everything isn't immune to failure and doubt. The sunset scene at the end felt very poetic.
- Yoda
- Kylo and Rey vs the guards (not the best duel scene in SW, but best one since episode 3)
- The Resistance looked very desperate; they captured the sense of urgency and desperation quite well

Things I didn't like:
- Leia magically makes her way back to the ship.
- The whole casino subplot
- Rose rams into Finn's ship: the whole scene looked stupid
- Lightspeed ram (even though it looked cool)
- Snoke and Phasma looked like chumps

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#16 Posted by npiet1 (2481 posts) -

My main issue is the horrible story and things like Leia suddenly having the force. It also doesn't help that star wars already had an amazing story that they didn't use.

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#17 Posted by Ant_17 (12744 posts) -

Same reason people worship the movies.

Boredom.

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#18 Posted by Gaming-Planet (20010 posts) -

Poorly written and poorly written characters.

The entire movie was pointless.

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#19 Posted by mandzilla (4157 posts) -

Unpopular opinion maybe, but I've never seen a bad Star Wars film. I also actually like Jar Jar lol.

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#20 Posted by Ovirew (9103 posts) -

@mandzilla:I also didn't mind Jar Jar. I still enjoyed the original movies a lot better than the prequels though, but in general am not much of a Star Wars fan.

@Macutchi: I kind of felt that way when I watched TFA. I walked out of the theater and mostly had enjoyed the movie. But after thinking about it a little more I didn't see why it was so praised. Maybe I just liked it because it felt a little more like the older movies than the prequels had. But funnily enough I still think the prequels were better because Ewan McGregor made a good Obi-Wan.

I never saw The Last Jedi. I might not ever. Like I said, not a big Star Wars fan. The last one I watched was that Rogue One movie. I felt pretty much the same about that as I did The Force Awakens.

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#21 Posted by mrbojangles25 (44161 posts) -

I don't hate The Last Jedi--it's Start Wars, after all, and I will enjoy Star Wars for the most part--but they really did butcher everything about it.

I was forgiving to The Force Awakens because it was the first of a trilogy and the introductory movie. It was a bit goofy, had some dumb plot elements (Rey is a jedi master instantly? WTF!?!), and worse but for the most part it was an adequate Star Wars film. But The Last Jedi just didn't improve upon it at all. Dumb characters, dumb plot, dumb everything.

It's like if you took a Star Wars movie and gave it to a filthy casual. I'm not saying it had to be a movie that catered only to Star Wars fans, but at the very least it had to satisfy the Star Wars fans.

@PETERAKO said:

@carljohnsoncj: There is an enormous amount of videos on youtube about it like this one or this one or this one or this one or this one and many more that you can turn to in order to learn in a well articulated, reasonable way why there is an issue.

lol that first one was funny. And made sense.

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#22 Posted by carljohnsonCJ (505 posts) -

@mandzilla said:

Unpopular opinion maybe, but I've never seen a bad Star Wars film. I also actually like Jar Jar lol.

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#23 Posted by Vaidream45 (2010 posts) -

@PETERAKO: exactly. It’s just much too much to type out here. As a fan of the series since the 80s I stand by my hatret for the last jedi. I never hated a star wars movie before this. Even TFA got lots of love from me despite its obvious issues. Last Jedi felt like a punch in the chest.

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#24 Posted by almsteadt (5 posts) -

Nop still better than solo

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#25 Posted by mumunaro (158 posts) -

Its a bad Star Wars story. Dont let the flashy glitz and cinematics fool you. Simple as that.

But you can no longer have any valid criticism of Disney movies without being labelled as trolls and misogynists nowadays.

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#26 Edited by uninspiredcup (34401 posts) -

@npiet1 said:

My main issue is the horrible story and things like Leia suddenly having the force. It also doesn't help that star wars already had an amazing story that they didn't use.

That made sense.

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Instead of instilling amazement and awe to the audience it was comic, and largely pointless. Compare it with Yoda lifting the X-wing, it has all of that.

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#27 Edited by N30F3N1X (8923 posts) -

It's a bad movie, and an even worse Star Wars movie.

It's chock full of scenes that are either tone deaf (the rock cut by Rey almost falling over the two alien nuns, Poe's jokes at the beginning of the movie, Finn's leaky suit), feel forced or badly justified (the whole casino planet, Luke's confrontation with Kylo), or are flat out completely nonsensical and hilariously poorly executed (Snoke's death, Leia's Mary Poppins scene, any sequence ever involving Rose, the Resistance's cheering when they board the Falcon after having lost the entirety of its fleet and the majority of its people).

The whole story is a contrived mess of illogicities that makes every character involved look like a stupid and bad buffoon.

To top it off, the whole cast is made of outspoken feminist dickheads who draw joy out of making everything they touch miserable and devoid of human emotion. In more fantasious terms, they are the Nurgle chaos cultists of the entertainment industry.

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#28 Posted by VFighter (5134 posts) -

@uninspiredcup: Even though I enjoyed the movie I agree with you on almost everything minus the fight scenes, they were the highlight of the movie.

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#29 Edited by DaVillain- (37581 posts) -

Personally though, I may poke at some things, if The Last Jedi stands on its own merit then overall I feel it was a very good movie but then again, it wasn't the worst Star Wars movie, just bad writing. However, in the scope of the wider Star Wars universe there was an unforgivable failure that absolutely ruined the movie for me & even Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) was upset how Rian Johnson ruin his character in the film. Everyone wanted Rey to be a Skywalker, Solo or a Kenobi. Everyone wanted to learn more about who Snoke was. They wanted to learn why Luke had gone searching for the first Jedi temple.

  • Instead all they got was, “Rey is nobody. Snoke's backstory doesn't matter, Luke went to the First Jedi Temple to die. As much as I feel that Rey being a no one is the single best thing that the trilogy has done, it unfortunately was marred by the piss poor answer of The Force wants Balance and that's why you've become Mace Windu strong in three days. The movie has almost no true feeling of being connected to the movie that came before it. You know, the movie that ended literally minutes before this film started. Do not get me wrong, I personally don't hate TLJ, it was just bad writing by Johnson and JJ Abram did a good job with TFA that was getting to a good start but Johnson fucked that up big time. This was a movie determined to fucked with our expectations and I applaud it for that if not for much else. I think that’s what a lot of the audience had problems with. I had my own problems with it but to the degree it was determined to not be what we were expecting, I was on board.
  • Luke was not the wise and all-powerful Jedi master many expected. He was a human being who’d struggled to deal with his own legend and the failure he’d experienced when he bought in to that legend himself.
  • Some people have called out Luke almost killing Ben Solo as a betrayal of his character. If he could believe in the good inside Vader how could he so easily give up on Ben?
  • We never saw Luke training Rey which most people had assumed would be the point of the scenes on Ach-To. Of course if we had, we’d just be hearing gripes that this was a remake of The Empire Strikes Back and Luke was now Yoda.
  • Fans have spent 2 years speculating about Rey’s parentage and lineage and it appears that all along the plan was for her character to prove Jedi and heroes can come from anywhere. I liked that twist. (if you can really call it that since it was an obvious possibility) People who were more invested in particular theories I guess didn’t.
  • Snoke theorists were let down. I thought this would be how it would go Kylo Ren would turn on his master in order to seize power for himself and I was impressed with how that part of the story was handled. Others thought we should have found out who Snoke was and that he should be the ultimate villain of the trilogy. Of course, if he was we’d be hearing all about how he was just a copy of the Emperor Sidious and these new movies were so unoriginal.
  • The C plot on Canto Bight was even weaker and featured a weird side-line into animal rights preachiness and this was unnecessary.

I can point out I personally enjoy Rogue One: A Star Wars Story way more so then what Disney had release so far cause Rogue One was totally different and nothing like the trilogy we ever seen in a Star Wars film.

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#30 Edited by Jag85 (13600 posts) -

@davillain-: I agree about Rogue One. It's better than TFA and TLJ.

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#31 Edited by Ezekiel43 (1713 posts) -

@davillain-: Rey as a Skywalker would have pissed me off so much. It would have been so predictable and lame. Like everyone in the galaxy has to be related.

Anyway, I liked TLJ more than TFA. Rogue One and Solo were both mediocre. I wrote a little about why I liked it after watching it again a few months ago.

I watched The Last Jedi for the second time a week ago. I like it more than The Force Awakens for going against expectations while handling the theme of letting old things die and not letting ourselves be too sentimental, symbolized early in the film by Ren smashing the helmet that made him feel like Vader. It’s the opposite of what J.J. Abrams did with TFA, where he was too focused on nostalgia and keeping things the same, implying that little changed in a span of thirty years.

I like that Ren unshackled himself from Snoke and finally took charge. People complain that Rian Johnson wasted what Abrams was building with Snoke, but that would have just ended too much like Return of the Jedi, the bad guy playing a pawn again, and Snoke still served as a useful plot device in connecting the two main characters, Ren and Rey, before he was satisfyingly killed. I didn’t want Rey to be related to anybody. I’m grateful that she’s a nobody. I would have been pissed if she was a Skywalker, like everyone in the galaxy has to be related.

I liked Mark Hamill’s performance. Yeah, yeah, trying to kill his pupil in his sleep is unlike Luke, but it was a fleeting, momentary impulse. It was cool seeing him in battle one last time, fighting defensively, as is fitting for his character.

I also think it’s a better looking movie than The Force Awakens.

It doesn’t have as much of the dumb, misplaced humor, but it’s still there, unfortunately.

I know this is a short post. It’s not really a review, just some random thoughts I wanted to write down while still fresh, which is what this blog is about. The internet, especially YouTube, has already come to the consensus that the film is a disaster that ruined the new trilogy, but I think it has more going for it than The Force Awakens. Most of the problems I have with this movie can be blamed on the way Abrams and Disney set up the new trilogy. I really wish Abrams wasn’t directing Episode IX.

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#32 Edited by tocool340 (21381 posts) -

@brimmul777 said:

I haven't seen any of the Star Wars movies in recent years,but I am still curious into watching them a little bit.

This has been me for years. Ever since The Force Awakens came out, I've been trying to actually sit down and watch all the Star Wars movies so that I may truly understand the Star Wars universe. It's been something I've been interested in learning about for quite some time. Unfortunately, it just never goes as planned.

  • I managed to slug through Phantom Menace ( I remember thinking as a kid that Jar Jar Binks wasn't so bad....until I saw it again more recently. Now I despise him).
  • Could only get 20 minutes into Attack of the Clones before losing my desire to watch more.
  • Had absolutely no issue watching Revenge of the Sith as I actually thought it was a pretty good movie despite having bouts of terrible acting (Not to mention Anakin's random flip to the darkside felt forced).
  • Like Attack of the Clones, I couldn't get far into A New Hope before losing interest.
  • I've seen The Empire Strikes back, but I was only 5-7 years old when I saw it from start to finish. So I remember very little about it. Wasn't gonna look at it again til I manage to slug through A New Hope.
  • Same deal with Return of the Jedi. Saw it when I was a kid but remember very little of it....

Plan on trying to watch them again whenever I get the time. And after I do, I'll finally be able to tackle the newer titles..

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#33 Edited by uninspiredcup (34401 posts) -

@ezekiel43 said:

@davillain-: Rey as a Skywalker would have pissed me off so much. It would have been so predictable and lame. Like everyone in the galaxy has to be related.

The core of Starwars is explicitly about family, and Lucas is quoted on that. The son redeems the father. It's what gives Empire/ROTJ their emotional core.

Even the prequels are about it, and for all their many flaws, have more heart.

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Who am I suppose to give a shit about in these news movies? Han Solo is miserable, dies. Luke is miserable, dies. Princess Leia is legit dead, so if they had some plan for a redeem story, good luck with that.

Reys hook is... ? Go woman?

Finn was a Stormtrooper, but they don't really explore or expand upon it in any interesting way, they could have, easily. But instead we get a a 30 second fight with the silver end boss.

Even in the hated prequels, Anakin leaves his mother, with a point. Not random random "I good now", is too late to save her, and eventually resents the Jedi who effectively became his new family, leaning towards to Palpatine as a father figure, indoctrinating him into space ISIS. Very similar to a certain story of old.

Mordred (referred to as Modredus) is found in Geoffrey's influential Historia Regum Britanniae (The History of the Kings of Britain), written around 1136. Here, he is portrayed as the nephew of and traitor to Arthur. The unhistorical account presented by Geoffrey describes Arthur leaving Mordred in charge of his throne as he crossed the English Channel to wage war on Lucius Tiberius of Rome. During Arthur's absence, Mordred crowns himself king and lives in an adulterous union with Arthur's wife, Guinevere. Geoffrey does not make it clear how complicit Guinevere is with Mordred's actions, simply stating that the Queen had "broken her vows" and "about this matter... [he] prefers to say nothing."[10] This forces Arthur to return to Britain to fight at the Battle of Camlann, where Mordred is ultimately slain. Arthur, having been gravely wounded in battle, is sent to be healed in Avalon.

A number of Welsh sources also refer to Medraut, usually in relation to Camlann. One triad, based on Geoffrey's Historia, provides an account of his betrayal of Arthur;[11] in another, he is described as the author of one of the "Three Unrestrained Ravagings of the Isle of Britain" – he came to Arthur's court at Kelliwic in Cornwall, devoured all of the food and drink, and even dragged Gwenhwyfar (Guinevere) from her throne and beat her.[12]

The Old Frenchchivalric romance prose literature of the 13th century expand on the history of Mordred prior to the war with Arthur. In the Vulgate Merlin part of Vulgate Cycle, his elder half-brother Gawain saves the infant Mordred and their mother Morgause from the Saxon king Taurus. In the Old French prose narrative's revision known as the Post-Vulgate Cycle, and consequently in Thomas Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur (The Death of Arthur), Arthur is told prophecy by Merlin about a just-born child that is to be his undoing, and so he tries to avert the fate by ordering the killing of all the May Day newborns. This episode, reminiscent of the Biblical Massacre of the Innocents and sometimes dubbed the "May Day massacre", leads to a war between Mordred's father and Arthur. However, unknown to Arthur, the baby Mordred miraculously survives.

In this version of the legend, the young Mordred later joins Arthur's fellowship of the Round Table. Known for his womanizing habits, he is involved in the adventures of his brothers and some of his fellow knights such as Brunor, becoming the killer of Lamorak as well as a friend and companion yet eventually a bitter enemy of Lancelot. His turning point toward evil is hearing an old priest's prophecy for him and Lancelot, revealing his true parentage and predicting their roles in the downfall of the kingdom (the angry Mordred kills the priest before he could warn Arthur).[13] In this narrative, Mordred overthrows Arthur's rule when the latter is engaged in the war against Lancelot. The Vulgate's Prose Lancelot indicates Mordred was about 20 years old at the time. In the French-influenced Stanzaic Morte Arthur, a council of Britain's knights first elects Mordred for the position of regent in Arthur's absence as the most worthy candidate.

About the closest thing to emotional engagement is Kylo Ren, he comes across as very much like disillusioned, misguided young person ultimately desperate for validation, which is far more relatable than Rey. We've all been like that.

So, we have movies, where the only relatable main character with any depth is the bad guy.

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#34 Posted by DaVillain- (37581 posts) -

@uninspiredcup: Back when everyone watch the TFA teaser trailer, everyone was hyping Finn to be the next Force sensitive/training to be Jedi is what everyone thought about Finn and it turns out he's just another Solo type of guy but I do like his character development as the trilogy goes on.

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#35 Posted by Horgen (120925 posts) -

It just sucks???

I like that Rey is a nobody, but I wanted to know more about Snoke. Purple hair lady. Leia floating in space.

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#36 Edited by Jag85 (13600 posts) -

@davillain- said:

@uninspiredcup: Back when everyone watch the TFA teaser trailer, everyone was hyping Finn to be the next Force sensitive/training to be Jedi is what everyone thought about Finn and it turns out he's just another Solo type of guy but I do like his character development as the trilogy goes on.

Finn would've been a more interesting protagonist, with the whole former stormtrooper angle. But in TFA, he didn't really behave like a former stormtrooper, raised to be a battle-hardened soldier since childhood, but instead behaves like a bumbling noob sidekick. His character clearly had writing issues. But he still would've been a better protagonist than Rey.

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#37 Edited by Ezekiel43 (1713 posts) -
@uninspiredcup said:
@ezekiel43 said:

@davillain-: Rey as a Skywalker would have pissed me off so much. It would have been so predictable and lame. Like everyone in the galaxy has to be related.

The core of Starwars is explicitly about family, and Lucas is quoted on that. The son redeems the father. It's what gives Empire/ROTJ their emotional core.

Even the prequels are about it, and for all their many flaws, have more heart.

Who am I suppose to give a shit about in these news movies? Han Solo is miserable, dies. Luke is miserable, dies. Princess Leia is legit dead, so if they had some plan for a redeem story, good luck with that.

Reys hook is... ? Go woman?

it's still about the family. Adam Driver's character is there as the new generation. But making Rey a Skywalker as well would have sucked ass and definitely brought even more hate. Rey being a nobody plays into her character better anyway. She wanted a family in TFA, a sense of belonging, as Maz put it. She found a family in her new friends. Making her Rey Skywalker would have been pointless.

Of the prequels, I find The Phantom Menace to be the only good one, because it's more a self-contained story about community and is more lighthearted. The prequels never should have had Anakin as the protagonist. We already knew his story. He should have been more a secondary character. Episodes II and III are definitely worse than the sequels. I wrote about them too.

THE PHANTOM MENACE

Hadn’t seen it in over a decade. I was afraid all the hard to argue against problems that have been brought up over and over by everybody in recent years would make it hard to enjoy. I do see some obvious flaws, such as…

  • The film expecting you to suspend your disbelief quite a fair amount. The worst for me was little Anakin taking out the control ship after his fighter somehow auto-pilots him to the battle.
  • Rather bland characters. (Wasn’t as bored with them as Rogue One’s, though. They’re handled better.)
  • The CG is generally pretty blurry and undefined. It’s ridiculous how Jabba looks so much more realistic in Return of the Jedi than he does here. In other scenes, it shines. The pod race is a good sequence that couldn’t have been done with practical effects and models. The digital space scenes look good too. It’s the organic creations that suffer the most. There are a lot of models, real sets and matte paintings, so the idea that so much of the film is CG… Well, it’s true. A ton of it is CG, but most of what you see is real or composited.
  • Anakin being a prophecy conceived by midi-chlorians. Dumb.
  • Obi-Wan spinning is lightsaber for no reason, when not engaged in combat, throughout the movie.

But I find it to be a fun, visually attractive movie. I appreciate that it explores new themes, such as community and government, people coming together. What was the message in The Force Awakens?

I watched it a second time today with one of the commentary tracks, and now I’m watching it AGAIN with the other commentary track. I rarely listen to commentary tracks, but there’s some interesting stuff here. The second track is of excerpts from the crew and cast and the first is from the crew. It makes me appreciate the artistry and details more, even if it didn’t all come together well. I wish more creativity went into The Force Awakens.

I like the following excerpt by George Lucas shortly after the pod race, because a lot of people still incorrectly call the movies science fiction.

I had to struggle very hard on the Star Wars films to make them appear to be realistic, even though they’re totally fantasy. And they aren’t science fiction, they’re fantasy, but you still believe that this could actually happen.

This was also interesting:

Bringing midi-chlorians into it as a device is something that existed from the beginning, but I never really had the time to go into any explanation. Every time these rather larger concepts come into play, you know– “How does the galaxy work? What is the Force?” All this kind of stuff. You have to be very cryptic and deal in almost fortune-cookie descriptions of things. So it’s very difficult to get a concept across, but I figured in this whole movie, I could bring out the idea of midi-chlorians and their job in being sensitive to the Force, and why some people are more susceptible to the Force than others, which is an issue that’s in the first film, but you never know why the Force is stronger with some people and not with other people. What is the device that causes that to happen? I also like the idea of these symbiotic relationships, which is again an ongoing theme in the whole movie of people helping people.

He claims midi-chlorians were always an idea. I’m fine with it. The midi-chlorians aren’t the Force, they help us communicate with the Force. So the fans can keep their pants on. The Force is still spiritual and magical.All the midi-chlorians do is tie into the theme of symbiosis in the movie and explain why the Force is stronger in some people, like Luke and his family. But with training and concentration, almost anyone can use the Force. I don’t want an actual explanation, because the Force is so spiritual. Lucas came up with it by basically stripping down all religions and finding a literal life force in many of them. You can’t explain spirituality, mysticism and fantasy scientifically. It would just make it seem dumber.

He also said Anakin being the father of not only Luke and Leia but also of C3PO was supposed to be a funny irony. He said he couldn’t resist. I guess the fans looked at it differently.

I feel like a lot of the hate for this movie is from pointless comparisons to the original trilogy and people mindlessly repeating the mantras they hear over and over. It’s flawed, yes. As far as fantasy and sci-fi movies go, it’s better than most. It just couldn’t compare to the original trilogy and the expectations people had.

ATTACK OF THE CLONES

So I just rewatched Attack of the Clones. It feels lazy compared to The Phantom Menace (which I spoke of in my previous post). It doesn’t have the same energy and isn’t fun.

The action is tame and lacking, especially in the first hour. Even after the story really picks up steam, there is little to be excited about. The characters get out of every situation like it’s nothing, including the queen turned diplomat. Why does she dramatically say, “Out lives are about to be destroyed anyway,” and act like they’re both about to die, only to then get out of her restraints so easily. The action scene isn’t in character for her. She shoots a bit in Episode I, becomes an action hero in Episode II and then does nothing in Episode III.

The romance is so unrealistic and hammy. I was smiling and almost laughing at some of the awkward crap that was coming out of Ani’s mouth and at how seductively Padme dressed when they were alone with a romantic fire. Why does Padme fall in love with him? The societal barrier between them is dumb. Making the Jedi passionless and celibate for the sake of a forbidden romance is one of the worst things the prequels did. The movie did very little to make me like Anakin.

Yoda should never have used a lightsaber.

I can accept the idea of the army being cloned from a bounty hunter, since a battle-hardened bounty hunter would have ideal genes and abilities, but why does it have to be Fett? His son was a nobody in the original trilogy (and had a white man’s voice).

Why does Dooku tell Obi-Wan that the senate is being controlled by a Darth Sidious and that the viceroy of the Trade Federation was used by the Sith? Why does he go on to ask Obi-Wan to join him so that they can destroy the Sith and then at the end of the movie meet up with his master, Sidious? I don’t understand his motives.

It’s kind of farfetched that Jango Fett is needed both on Kamino for the cloning and on Geonosis for Dooku’s schemes and assassination attempts. The way Obi-Wan gets to Geonosis is also far-fetched. He shows a dart to a cook, who somehow knows it came from Kamino, where he learns about the clones and speaks with Jango, who then attacks him and who he then tracks to the separatist base.

It’s so convenient that all the Jedi come to the rescue in the nick of time and then immediately when the battle is lost Yoda shows up with the clone army, like it’s so quick and easy to go to the remote Kamino, deliberate with the workers, amass the soldiers and ships and rush to the rescue.

There’s far too much CG. Even most of the storm troopers are CG, when they could have easily used real costumes. The Phantom Menace had a lot more models, sets, matte paintings, composited shots and scenes filmed on location. Some of the CG looked pretty bad, but there was less of it. You wanna know why the Trade Federation control ship looked so good in The Phantom Menace? Because it was an eight foot model. I think it was eight feet. Eight or six feet. I’d have to listen to that part of the commentary again to be sure. Lucas became lazy or too confident in his digital revolution.

It’s pretty average. I’m not hopeful for Episode III. Episode I had a likable innocence, kind of like the first movie. Episode II goes into darker territories poorly and too quickly.

REVENGE OF THE SITH

The opening is pretty good, with the banter between Anakin and Obi-Wan and long upbeat battle to rescue Palpatine. The second half feels rushed, like there’s much the film still needs to establish for the original trilogy. Anakin becoming full Darth Vader after helping kill Windu and then immediately killing children, Palpatine claiming the Jedi aim to take over the senate (How would they even accomplish this? The clones aren’t their army and the Republic is made of many governments.) and immediately creating a Galactic Empire with full support by the senate, even though the Jedi have been known as peacekeepers for generations, and Yoda choosing to go into exile immediately after his failure to defeat Sidious. The way it elaborates on the mythology and these characters is interesting, but it’s not very graceful.

The final lightsaber fight is honestly kind of like a silly video game lava platforming sequence. It’s drawn out.

Palpatine should never have used a lightsaber. He and Yoda should have faced off barehanded, like powerful wizards.

It has some dumb moments, like Ani and Padme trying to be romantic on the balcony, Padme being perfectly healthy according to the medical droid but losing the will to live and Palpatine becoming deformed from an attack he would viciously use on Luke years later. Why does Anakin’s whole body catch on fire? Is that how lava works? It never seemed right to me. I would have rather seen him burn up in a big fire, or fall into lava or a kind of acid and rise screaming like in the end of Terminator 2.

The closer I get to the ending of the prequels, the more I wonder what the point of telling Anakin’s story was. The original trilogy was completely self-contained and told us what we needed to know. When I get to the end of the prequels, I feel incomplete. Episode IV is so different from III, stylistically and visually, that watching them sequentially doesn’t seem like a very appealing idea to me. Besides, I just watched the originals a month ago. I’m not in the mood. Episode III is so dark and doesn’t give you much resolution in return. In Episode I, everything was still vague and there wasn’t so much focus on Anakin. The film was free to tell a self-contained story, much like Episode IV. Not having a main character yet was perhaps to the benefit of the film. The characters were still only chess pieces in this bigger story of space politics.

But my biggest problem with the film is how rushed the second hour is. I actually liked it, for the most part, but I find it hard to call it a good movie.

Having rewatched the three movies now, I feel even more strongly that Anakin’s backstory was a waste of time. If Lucas wanted to show the fall of democracy to tyranny and the destruction of the Jedi, he should have done it with new main characters, whose outcomes we don’t already know. Anakin and Obi-Wan should have been in the background.

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#38 Posted by sakaiXx (5928 posts) -

I guess its not just russian bots hating the movie after all

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#39 Posted by comp_atkins (35805 posts) -

got caught up in the whole chase scene in the theater and it took me out of it.

they're in space right?

soo they're burning fuel to get away from the first order, and the first order is chasing but not catching them. so that means they're either:

1) both flying at constant velocity in space, so why do you need to to burn fuel to maintain constant velocity? ( 1st law of motion )

2) both are accelerating at the SAME rate. if they have to burn fuel, this seems like it would have to be the more likely scenario considering when a ship runs out of fuel, it is just coasting at its final speed and can then be caught by the pursuing ships. but what are the odds that EVERY ship in BOTH fleets all accelerate at the same rate for the distances between them not to change???

considering pretty much the entirety of the movie is based around this chase... it messed the movie up for me.

also, space leia. what the ****?

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#40 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166908 posts) -

Overlong.......didn't need the excess scenes of Rose and Finn that added nothing to the narrative and in fact slowed it down. Total reversal of the Luke character.

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#41 Edited by Volsung (279 posts) -

I get two general impressions about Star Wars.

1. That there hasn't been a "good" Star Wars movie in about 40 years.

2. Despite this, Star Wars is still one of the most important things in the world in 2019.

I struggle with the disconnect, but hey....

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#42 Edited by Macutchi (6855 posts) -
@volsung said:

I get two general impressions about Star Wars.

1. That there hasn't been a "good" Star Wars movie in about 40 years.

2. Despite this, Star Wars is still one of the most important things in the world in 2019.

I struggle with the disconnect, but hey....

i get two general impressions about this post.

either you've found a legitimate pop culture paradox of sorts.

or your impressions are a little off.

occam's razor isn't a silver bullet, but hey... ;)

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#43 Posted by Gamerno6666 (6852 posts) -

The whole franchise is dumb and I hate all of them. Well indz?

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#44 Posted by Jag85 (13600 posts) -

@volsung said:

I get two general impressions about Star Wars.

1. That there hasn't been a "good" Star Wars movie in about 40 years.

2. Despite this, Star Wars is still one of the most important things in the world in 2019.

I struggle with the disconnect, but hey....

Empire Strikes Back is from less than 40 years ago... What are you implying?

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#45 Posted by mandzilla (4157 posts) -
@Ovirew said:

@mandzilla:I also didn't mind Jar Jar. I still enjoyed the original movies a lot better than the prequels though, but in general am not much of a Star Wars fan!

Yeah he gets a lot of hate for the way he talks and his antics, but he's a complex character (there's even a fan theory that Jar Jar is a Sith lord lol). Agreed, the original trilogy will always be the best, however the prequels introduced a lot of interesting lore and awesome moments. I'm a big Star Wars fan.

@carljohnsoncj said:
@mandzilla said:

Unpopular opinion maybe, but I've never seen a bad Star Wars film. I also actually like Jar Jar lol.

Loading Video...

Effortlessly saving Qui-Gon's life. :P

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#46 Edited by MirkoS77 (14372 posts) -

If someone doesn’t like the new Star Wars, it’s only because they’re an entitled manchild misogynists who can’t appreciate upendeding expectations.....or something like that.

Couldn’t be the possibility that both the new films are extremely poorly written, executed, and complete and utter garbage. They’re simply poorly made films when not even compared to the OT. When they are, they’re a massive joke. Star Wars is dead, and I’m just very grateful that we have the originals.

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#47 Posted by Orionsbane (32 posts) -

I actually like Rey & Kylo Ren moments. Those are the only things that made sense to me.

The rest of the movie belongs to the garbage bin