Who invented maths and physics

  • 57 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for ariabed
#1 Edited by Ariabed (2121 posts) -

Who formed the language of maths, and how is it, it can be used to unlock aome of the secrets of life?

Avatar image for indzman
#2 Posted by indzman (27735 posts) -

Issac Newton ^_^

Avatar image for alim298
#3 Edited by alim298 (2747 posts) -

They're discovered first then expressed in math language. Simple.

Avatar image for osirisx3
#5 Edited by osirisx3 (2113 posts) -

jesus

Avatar image for 4myAmuzumament
#6 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -

Physics has been around since the beginning; just like time and space.

Avatar image for mattykovax
#7 Edited by mattykovax (22693 posts) -

Math is language not laws, and can express most things as pure ideas. And physics just are the laws are definition not creation. I am stupid and I know this.

Avatar image for Zelda99
#8 Posted by Zelda99 (767 posts) -

@ariabed: What your asking could fill volumes. I'll talk about a bit of it. Math, as we call it was "invented" by the Arabic people several centuries ago. I put the " " because numbers and such have been around since as long as writing, before that time, but not the number 0, that was placed into the number line by the Arabic world and the quintessential mathematics that we use was born. You have to understand that physics as we call it, is a science that has been around for millenia. Countless people have worked and added to our knowledge of the field over those centuries and to ask when was physics born is a tricky question because that's like asking when science was born. It depends on many factors such as what one would consider physics and science. Would you consider the first man who looked at the stars and wondered what they were sciences? Because if so, then he invented it. We'll never know exactly who was the first to do so we can never know when it was invented exactly. The key physicists like Newton, Faraday, Ort, Halley and Einstein push physics forward more than most, but they did not invent the field. Its been around as long as scholars had pondered the universe. Every scientist just adding and subtracting to the field as time passes.

To answer your other question, physics is used to try and understand our world and our universe. Its as real as you and I. Its better to say physics was created rather than discovered, because physics is a field of science, not the phenomena that occur in the universe. You would not consider gravity physics, Its a natural occurrence in the universe, while the study of gravity and its effects on the universe would fit into the field of physics. Physics is used to understand why things happen in our world and in the universe. It only works if its proven and cannot be proved wrong. We know that gravity is 32 feet per second per second because we have never measured an item falling at another rate, and we never will. On the flip side, a lot of physics is theoretical, meaning it cant be proven right or wrong at the moment. As what happens why you cross the event horizon of a black hole and you will get a theoretical answer, until we can prove it for sure, it works to sate our curiosity and give us some understanding. Physics can and has also be wrong, even today we are discovering and rewriting many laws that we thought were true. That's why science channels motto of "question everything" rings so true.

Avatar image for ariabed
#9 Posted by Ariabed (2121 posts) -

@Iszdope: if you haven't got something helpful to say don't say anything.

Avatar image for mattykovax
#10 Posted by mattykovax (22693 posts) -

@Zelda99:

Thanks for that. well said and clarified how I would think of the definition of created versus discovered. This so rarely gets said on the internet but thank you for showing me a different perspective that makes a lot of sense. Like I said I am no science whiz.

Avatar image for Zelda99
#11 Edited by Zelda99 (767 posts) -

@mattykovax: No problem, I'm a teacher at heart, plus I'm a firm believer in that "a good question deserves a good answer" and this was a good question.

Avatar image for horgen
#12 Edited by Horgen (117194 posts) -

@Zelda99 That explains it nicely. Thank you.

Avatar image for ariabed
#13 Edited by Ariabed (2121 posts) -

@Zelda99: thanks for taking the time to explain that. I was wondering though how does a numerical value or symbol take the place of things in the universe so that the numbers and symbols in equations can be used to work things out about the universe mathematically? Hope that makes sense.

Also you said "that's why science channels motto of question everything rings so true"

When people do question sciences unproven theories, and laws, people that know a lot about science get very defensive and annoyed, especially on forums like this, you yourself have said that many of sciences laws that were once thought to be true have been re-written. Why are people of science ignorant to the fact that they might just be wrong?

By the way I'm not against science I'm not extremely knowledgeable about it as you might of guessed but I do like science.

Avatar image for l34052
#14 Posted by l34052 (3777 posts) -

@ariabed said:

Are the laws of physics man made or are they discovered? Who invented the language of maths? Did the maths of physics start out simple and get more complicated with time? How is it that it can be used to learn and even predict some of the secrets of life and the universe if it is a man made thing?

Physics were created at the moment of the big bang and mankind has been tryin to decypher and understand them ever since.

Avatar image for Zelda99
#15 Edited by Zelda99 (767 posts) -

@ariabed: Okay, first question, if your talking about something along the line of "E=Mc2" then the reason we have symbols to represent phenomena is to make them mathematically calculable. its gonna be near impossible to explain it because its something that only mathematical theorists or theoretical physicists use on a regular basis, but i'll try. Try to think of it like this: "E" represents energy, "M" represents mass. If we know what they are, we can use them in equations. Its the same as using X or Y in a math problem to represent a number. Its a theoretical number that changes depending on the principles or mathematical ways you are implementing those symbols. Symbols are used because there are a lot of things in the universe that are stable (to a certain point). For instance, we know that light travels at around 180,000 feet per second. We know that, so in a mathematical formula, we wouldn't put 180,000 multiply by x equals Y, we would put something like SPV times X equals Y, where SPV is the Speed of Light in a Vacuum. You get it? The symbols are just used to substitute known facts of math and science instead of having to write out the entire number or such your trying to discuss. Consider that some quantum mechanical problems can go on for pages and pages and pages. You wouldn't want to write the same long formula or number, so you substitute it with a symbol. Since math is universal, other scientist around the world will automatically know what your trying to say. Once we figure out the constant rate of something (like gravity or light year, or a chemical composition) we use symbols to represent them in equations. Its a mathematical version of a short cut instead of writing the entire damn thing out. Just look at Pi. Also consider that a lot of forces interact at once in the universe. Symbols just make life easier when trying to discover the gravitational pull of an object with a mass of 100,000,000 tons over a distance of .02 light years when in a parabolic orbit. Math is hard enough so symbols make life a little easier and equations a little shorter

As for your second question, scientist are still human. They have the same level of pride and stubbornness as the rest of us. Its hard to hear that your wrong, that's just what it is to be human. Scientist especially like to think they are always right because there is an otherwise unattainable level of success when you are considered a famous scientist and have all the answers. Famous scientist are remembered. They have schools and formulas and places and phenomena named after them. When every one thinks you are right and gives you all the glory you can handle and some hack comes out of no where are says your wrong, you wont take it kindly. That being said just remember scientist are human and prone to human mistakes and emotions.

Avatar image for l34052
#16 Edited by l34052 (3777 posts) -

@Zelda99 said:

@ariabed: ....For instance, we know that light travels at around 180,000 feet per second

I think you typed that wrong, light travels 186,000 miles in a second or 670m miles an hour

Avatar image for Zelda99
#17 Edited by Zelda99 (767 posts) -

@l34052: Your right, my mistake. I didn't look up the exact the number, i just remembered it was around 180,000 miles a second. Thanks for catching that.

Avatar image for pyro1245
#18 Posted by pyro1245 (3506 posts) -

Well physics I guess you could say has always been there, though physics as we know it may have been different before the rapid expansion of the universe. Physics is just the name for how objects behave.

Avatar image for mattykovax
#19 Edited by mattykovax (22693 posts) -

I feel like I am learning something on gamespot. best thing since I have been back.

Avatar image for korvus
#20 Edited by korvus (10998 posts) -

@Zelda99: I'm impressed that somebody around here still takes the time to write a polite, comprehensive and helpful reply. Even more impressed that you manage to do so in a way that is interesting enough for people to actually read a long post instead of posting their usual "TL;DR". Thank you for not giving up on us ;)

And my apologies if this comes across as rude but I can't help but to be a bit shocked by the fact that someone who writes such complex answers can repeatedly mistake "you're" with "your".

Avatar image for Zelda99
#21 Edited by Zelda99 (767 posts) -

@korvus: Thanks for the kudos, like i said earlier teaching people new things is something i enjoy. Also, It's not upsetting that you called me out on the your/you're thing. I'm a writer so when i write i have to take the time to get the grammar right. On a forum like this one and others, i don't have to think so much so i just let the words flow without thinking much about my grammar. It's a terrible habit i have been unable to break for years.

Avatar image for korvus
#22 Edited by korvus (10998 posts) -

@Zelda99: It's understandable and I think that comes with trying to write long texts in a short amount of time; I do the same when I'm writing my books or even just a long email if I'm just trying to pour the ideas out; after it's written I go back and correct the spelling and grammar =P

It's just such a stark contrast between the complexity of your vocabulary and the mistakes in simple grammar. I thought it was curious, glad you didn't take offense =D

Avatar image for Zelda99
#23 Posted by Zelda99 (767 posts) -

@korvus: From one writer to another, i understand the pain you must be in when you read "your" instead of "you're" or "there" instead of "they're" it drives me nuts as well, unfortunately, revision and grammar have always been a week point in my writing, just can't seem to do it well. I guess that's why we have editors, for people like myself.

Avatar image for korvus
#24 Edited by korvus (10998 posts) -

@Zelda99: My wife has the habit of stealing my drafts before I deem them "readable" so she's always my first proof-reader....invaluable indeed, especially considering I normally don't write in my native language and she's very good at spotting awkwardly written sentences ;-)

In any case, I'll stop derailing this thread before the TC calls the mods on me =P If you ever wish to discuss writing, feel free to send me a PM.

Avatar image for Zelda99
#25 Posted by Zelda99 (767 posts) -

@korvus: Sure thing, always a pleasure to meet another writer.

Avatar image for deactivated-5acfa3a8bc51d
#26 Posted by deactivated-5acfa3a8bc51d (7914 posts) -

Before Issac Newton, people were unbound to physics.

Avatar image for lostrib
#27 Posted by lostrib (49999 posts) -

...are you high?

Avatar image for foxhound_fox
#28 Posted by foxhound_fox (96998 posts) -

Uh... a collaborative effort over thousands of years between many different people who observed the natural universe and derived equations to explain the behaviour of matter, it's motion and energy.

Avatar image for ariabed
#29 Edited by Ariabed (2121 posts) -

@Zelda99: yeh I get what your saying about the symbols, so I guess the language of maths/physics would have started out small and with each new discovery/fact would add to the language.

Also I understand what your saying about scientist egos and all that, I pretty much new that, but what I was really talking about is people on forums like these who may know a lot about science, but its not their theories that are on the line, so they don't really have a reason to feel threatened by having the theories of actual scientist questioned or by having new theories introduced. I made a thread a while ago about biocentrism, I'd heard about it and thought it was a interesting theory, and I just wanted to see what OT thought about it, let's just say it wasn't very well received. Anyway I'm not going ask you to explain people's behaviour, it's just human nature I guess. Thanks again for schooling.

Avatar image for wis3boi
#30 Edited by wis3boi (32507 posts) -

No one knows

Avatar image for commander
#31 Posted by commander (14582 posts) -

@mattykovax said:

Math is language not laws, and can express most things as pure ideas. And physics just are the laws are definition not creation. I am stupid and I know this.

You're not as stupid as he is apparently lol

Avatar image for wis3boi
#32 Edited by wis3boi (32507 posts) -

No one knows

@Zelda99 said:

Scientist especially like to think they are always right because there is an otherwise unattainable level of success when you are considered a famous scientist and have all the answers.

biggest load of tripe ive read in weeks

Avatar image for mattykovax
#33 Posted by mattykovax (22693 posts) -

@evildead6789 said:

@mattykovax said:

Math is language not laws, and can express most things as pure ideas. And physics just are the laws are definition not creation. I am stupid and I know this.

You're not as stupid as he is apparently lol

I like to laugh....

Avatar image for commander
#34 Edited by commander (14582 posts) -

@ariabed said:

Are the laws of physics man made or are they discovered? Who invented the language of maths? Did the maths of physics start out simple and get more complicated with time? How is it that it can be used to learn and even predict some of the secrets of life and the universe if it is a man made thing?

It's basic logic thinking. When you use symbols they can stand for anything

the correlation of these symbols to each other is what math is all about.

If you understand that certain correlation exist then you can build upon these new correlations and find new ones.

Avatar image for thegerg
#35 Posted by thegerg (18397 posts) -

@4myAmuzumament: Haha, no. It hasn't.

Avatar image for Serraph105
#36 Edited by Serraph105 (32126 posts) -

Physics were made up by the people who came up with public school because they hate children.

Avatar image for ariabed
#37 Edited by Ariabed (2121 posts) -

@mattykovax: when did I say maths was laws?

Avatar image for ariabed
#38 Posted by Ariabed (2121 posts) -

@evildead6789: @mattykovax: there always has to be one or two class clowns who ruin things.

When did I say maths was laws? When?

Plus I never pretended to be very knowledgable on these subjects doesn't make me stupid.

I guess it's just like real life you can't avoid douche bags for long. Like a pair of smug school children.

Avatar image for killzowned24
#39 Posted by killzowned24 (7345 posts) -
@ariabed said:

@Zelda99: thanks for taking the time to explain that. I was wondering though how does a numerical value or symbol take the place of things in the universe so that the numbers and symbols in equations can be used to work things out about the universe mathematically? Hope that makes sense.

Also you said "that's why science channels motto of question everything rings so true"

When people do question sciences unproven theories, and laws, people that know a lot about science get very defensive and annoyed, especially on forums like this, you yourself have said that many of sciences laws that were once thought to be true have been re-written. Why are people of science ignorant to the fact that they might just be wrong?

By the way I'm not against science I'm not extremely knowledgeable about it as you might of guessed but I do like science.

Math was designed by humans, so of course it works by what we have observe, otherwise it wouldn't had got invented. The simplest thing is why 10 was major. It relates to how many digits you have on both hands, which is why digit has both meanings.

Avatar image for commander
#41 Posted by commander (14582 posts) -

@ariabed said:

@evildead6789: @mattykovax: there always has to be one or two class clowns who ruin things.

When did I say maths was laws? When?

Plus I never pretended to be very knowledgable on these subjects doesn't make me stupid.

I guess it's just like real life you can't avoid douche bags for long. Like a pair of smug school children.

i gave you the explanation to your problem

and you put me off because i make a joke?

Avatar image for osan0
#42 Posted by osan0 (15017 posts) -

well since its somewhat related (may have been answered already....apologies if so).

did or could what we call physics (since we werent around to discover it at the time) exist before the big bang? if it did then what, if anything, was here before the big bang?

if not then what brought it about?

my line of thinking is that it did exist before the big bang since something had to trigger it (no idea what though). what was here before is a poser though. i dont see why there would be just one thing in all existence that then goes boom and the universe begins its expansion.

but then again maybe the effect of the big bang is what has created physics (in the sense that an explosion creates a shockwave).

well thats my brain wheez for the evening :P.

Avatar image for crazyguy111
#43 Posted by crazyguy111 (406 posts) -

@ariabed:

From many people.

Avatar image for Wilfred_Owen
#44 Edited by Wilfred_Owen (20964 posts) -

From outer spacccccccccccccceeeeeeeeee!

Avatar image for Riverwolf007
#45 Posted by Riverwolf007 (26023 posts) -

the debbil made it to trick you with thinkin.

Avatar image for ariabed
#46 Edited by Ariabed (2121 posts) -

@lostrib: Are you a troll.....

Avatar image for lostrib
#47 Posted by lostrib (49999 posts) -

@ariabed said:

@lostrib: Are you a troll.....

Not in this case

Avatar image for ariabed
#48 Edited by Ariabed (2121 posts) -

@evildead6789: you were implying that I'm less than stupid for not knowing what you know even though your stupid, and your little buddy replied "your not as stupid as he is apparently lol" to which you replied "I love a good laugh "

So don't pretend to be sweet and innocent, and don't pretend it was just a harmless joke we don't know each other to be making jokes about one another.

Also when did I say maths was laws?

You said"Math is language not laws, and can express most things as pure ideas. And physics just are the laws are definition not creation. I am stupid and I know this."

Point out to me where I said maths was laws.

Avatar image for ariabed
#49 Edited by Ariabed (2121 posts) -

@lostrib: then why are you asking if I'm high?, that comment adds nothing to the subject, it's not helpful in anyway it's just a sarcastic comment.

Avatar image for lostrib
#50 Edited by lostrib (49999 posts) -

@ariabed said:

@lostrib: then why are you asking if I'm high?, that comment adds nothing to the subject, it's not helpful in anyway it's just a sarcastic comment.

"Who invented the language of maths?"

That just sounds like something a drunk or high person would ask