What's So Good About Worshipping God?

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Stinger78"] Every one of those verses were taken out of context, then paraphrased by the individual. If you'll find the mention of stoning - I recalled a mention of throwing stones and provided a series of verses that make reference to that, rather than just a single one. I kept a verse that might be quoted 'in-context'.Stinger78

[QUOTE="Stinger78"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Every single one of those verses was taken out of context? So God never told Moses to slaughter all of the Midianites, including the women and children, sparing only the virgin women who were presumably left to be sex slaves for the Israelites? -Sun_Tzu-

It gives something for people to do. Like a safety net i guess.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="Stinger78"] If that's exactly what was said and what happened, then there was a reason for the action. Stinger78

You say that as if it justifies it.

toast_burner

I'm saying that if we are going to talk intelligently on these topics, we shouldn't make misleading remarks.

I didn't say the religion was. The idea of consolidating one morality system is used like that, though. I also never said invented anywhere. Don't know why you're quoting that. Not to mention, I never said it was part of the founding of the religion. Better argument, please?lx_theo

The morals of Christianity were not formed to systematically kill people.

I am a Christian, and that still sounds about just as bad.

Brosephus_Rex

Then you make God out to be evil. Jesus worshipped the same God of the Old testament, remember that.

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="Philokalia"]

It says those who commit homosexual acts should be killed. Be specific please and don't misrepresent.

Stinger78

You say that as if it justifies it.

Congrats on having the morals of a stone age barbarian

Congrats on having the morals of a stone age barbarian

wis3boi

And what makes your morals objectively better? Give it enough time in a thousand years the world may be radically different and what you consider immoral now will be moral.

[QUOTE="Brosephus_Rex"]

I am a Christian, and that still sounds about just as bad.

Philokalia

Then you make God out to be evil. Jesus worshipped the same God of the Old testament, remember that.

Doesn't change the fact that the order is to kill people, which, by both human and religious standards (smells contradictory), is VERY bad.

[QUOTE="Stinger78"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]

You say that as if it justifies it.

wis3boi

Congrats on having the morals of a stone age barbarian

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

Congrats on having the morals of a stone age barbarian

Philokalia

And what makes your morals objectively better? Give it enough time in a thousand years the world may be radically different and what you consider immoral now will be moral.

That doesn't make it right. I don't care if it was standard to have slaves 200 years ago, for example, it's not the right thing to do. Morals are based on what betters the lives of everyone you share this planet with. Killing others in the name of mythical stories and owning people as property isn't moral. End of story. But i'm sure you'll find some silly justification for ancient books genoicdes and murders and rapes too, I've heard it a million times and it never works.

Doesn't change the fact that the order is to kill people, which, by both human and religious standards (smells contradictory), is VERY bad.

Brosephus_Rex

No its not immoral to kill people. It was not immoral for the Byzantines to kill the Latins as they invaded constantiniple. It was not immoral for God to kill his own creation throughout the conquest of Palestine. I take it you have not read the bible.

[QUOTE="Stinger78"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] So genocide, ethnic cleansing and sex slavery can be justified given the proper context?-Sun_Tzu-

That doesn't make it right. I don't care if it was standard to have slaves 200 years ago, for example, it's not the right thing to do. Morals are based on what betters the lives of everyone you share this planet with. Killing others in the name of mythical stories and owning people as property isn't moral. End of story. But i'm sure you'll find some silly justification for ancient books genoicdes and murders and rapes too, I've heard it a million times and it never works.

wis3boi

So in otherwords "Im right because I say so"

Morals are devisive and not neccessarily the result of "bettering" the lives of people. So basically what your saying its your morality verses the morality of an eternal uncreated, all knowing entity. Good luck.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

That doesn't make it right. I don't care if it was standard to have slaves 200 years ago, for example, it's not the right thing to do. Morals are based on what betters the lives of everyone you share this planet with. Killing others in the name of mythical stories and owning people as property isn't moral. End of story. But i'm sure you'll find some silly justification for ancient books genoicdes and murders and rapes too, I've heard it a million times and it never works.

Philokalia

So in otherwords "Im right because I say so"

Morals are devisive and not neccessarily the result of "bettering" the lives of people. So basically what your saying its your morality verses the morality of an eternal uncreated, all knowing entity. Good luck.

I don't believe in your fictional sky daddy, so no, completly wrong. But i know your style, so I'm not going to give you any more undeserving attention

[QUOTE="Brosephus_Rex"]

Doesn't change the fact that the order is to kill people, which, by both human and religious standards (smells contradictory), is VERY bad.

Philokalia

No its not immoral to kill people. It was not immoral for the Byzantines to kill the Latins as they invaded constantiniple. It was not immoral for God to kill his own creation throughout the conquest of Palestine. I take it you have not read the bible.

I take it that you are not able to contextualize a statement. We are talking about people being ordered to kill people who pose them no bodily threat, which is murder - the type of killing explicitly forbidden by the Bible. Moreover, the stuff relating to the takeover of Palestine was quite troubling.

People bring up slavery. Again, any person who is in any kind of debt is a slave in the sense that they're working for their debtor until the debt is paid. Stinger78

You are a disgrace to humanity

[QUOTE="Stinger78"]People bring up slavery. Again, any person who is in any kind of debt is a slave in the sense that they're working for their debtor until the debt is paid. wis3boi

You are a disgrace to humanity

I take it that you are not able to contextualize a statement. We are talking about people being ordered to kill people who pose them no bodily threat, which is murder - the type of killing explicitly forbidden by the Bible. Moreover, the stuff relating to the takeover of Palestine was quite troubling.

Brosephus_Rex

I take it you are one of those Christians who doesn't believe in the bible. Thats fine, but the fact is that the God of Christ, the same God the expounded mercy, love and compassion in both the old and New testament, has commaded the death of people and there were reasons for this, to ensure that israel would live up to God's high standard, but with Christ come there is a new covenant in which the old practical laws are no longer in effect. That doesn't mean a change in morality, rather a change in how it is dealt with. Perhaps you like the Originist would say that all people are saved right? If you want to be a secularist and criticize God, then by all means be as such, but don't claim to be a Christian and that it disturbs you.

People bring up slavery. Again, any person who is in any kind of debt is a slave in the sense that they're working for their debtor until the debt is paid. Stinger78

I don't believe in your fictional sky daddy, so no, completly wrong. But i know your style, so I'm not going to give you any more undeserving attention

wis3boi

Since when is an entity that is Omni present relegated exactly to the sky? I don't get this. It would make more sense to call him a human father because he resides in those who believe in him. But perhaps thats no generous a thing to ask on your part. The problem is with your saying that the ancient people were somehow less moral indicates taht you will be less more by future standards. So I simply ask the question by which objective method do we know morality? It seems the popular notion among atheists is this naturalism and evolution theory of it, though that only begs more moral problems. Quite simply your morality is inadequate when compared to an eternal consistent all knowing morality.

[QUOTE="Brosephus_Rex"]

I take it that you are not able to contextualize a statement. We are talking about people being ordered to kill people who pose them no bodily threat, which is murder - the type of killing explicitly forbidden by the Bible. Moreover, the stuff relating to the takeover of Palestine was quite troubling.

Philokalia

I take it you are one of those Christians who doesn't believe in the bible. Thats fine, but the fact is that the God of Christ, the same God the expounded mercy, love and compassion in both the old and New testament, has commaded the death of people and there were reasons for this, to ensure that israel would live up to God's high standard, but with Christ come there is a new covenant in which the old practical laws are no longer in effect. That doesn't mean a change in morality, rather a change in how it is dealt with. Perhaps you like the Originist would say that all people are saved right? If you want to be a secularist and criticize God, then by all means be as such, but don't claim to be a Christian and that it disturbs you.

Since you fabricate my positions in accordance with your preconceived notions of how people should think, which is really disingenuous, I do not think that it is possible to have a genuine conversation with you.

Since you fabricate my positions in accordance with your preconceived notions of how people should think, which is really disingenuous, I do not think that it is possible to have a genuine conversation with you.

Brosephus_Rex

If I have misrepresented your poisition then correct me. Here are the facts as I understand them

- You consider killing of anyone immoral

So this is your belief and let me state an additional fact

- God of the Old testament killed and judged many people, as did the God of the New testament

And let me now state the conclusion that I think should follow from these facts.

- You as a Christian believe God is immoral.

Please correct me, I might have misunderstood something.

[QUOTE="lx_theo"]I didn't say the religion was. The idea of consolidating one morality system is used like that, though. I also never said invented anywhere. Don't know why you're quoting that. Not to mention, I never said it was part of the founding of the religion. Better argument, please?Philokalia

The morals of Christianity were not formed to systematically kill people.

I didn't say the religion was. The idea of consolidating one morality system is used like that, though. I also never said invented anywhere. Don't know why you're quoting that. Not to mention, I never said it was part of the founding of the religion. Better argument, please?lx_theo

Then again, neither of us actually know how and why it was founded. It could easily have been made up for that purpose, lol.lx_theo

Actually I do know why Christianity was founded. It was founded by a group of men called the apostles who claimed to have seen the risen Christ, along with the other five hundred or so. And their morality was not one comparable like unto islam. So your statement about religions as a whole and their morality is wrong. But no Christianity could not have been fabricated in such a mnner based on those claims. It would have been easier if the apostles did not claim such things. Really it would have.

[QUOTE="Brosephus_Rex"]

Since you fabricate my positions in accordance with your preconceived notions of how people should think, which is really disingenuous, I do not think that it is possible to have a genuine conversation with you.

Philokalia

If I have misrepresented your poisition then correct me. Here are the facts as I understand them

- You consider killing of anyone immoral

So this is your belief and let me state an additional fact

- God of the Old testament killed and judged many people, as did the God of the New testament

And let me now state the conclusion that I think should follow from these facts.

- You as a Christian believe God is immoral.

Please correct me, I might have misunderstood something.

I am not sure that I agree with any of the red statements w/o further elaboration - which happens to be everything that you think is my position. I do not oppose killing under all circumstances. I am not entirely certain that I am convinced that God himself necessarily killed anyone a la Sodom et Gomorrah (as I am also not convinced that the entire Israeli population was enslaved by Egyptians, for instance). I do not believe that God is immoral.

Your move.

[QUOTE="lx_theo"] Then again, neither of us actually know how and why it was founded. It could easily have been made up for that purpose, lol.Philokalia

Actually I do know why Christianity was founded. It was founded by a group of men called the apostles who claimed to have seen the risen Christ, along with the other five hundred or so. And their morality was not one comparable like unto islam. So your statement about religions as a whole and their morality is wrong. But no Christianity could not have been fabricated in such a mnner based on those claims. It would have been easier if the apostles did not claim such things. Really it would have.

Really, that is actually really funny. You do realize that you have know idea the intentions of the people who made it? Oh, and in case you didn't know. If you're meaning to base something on lies and corruption, you tend to not make extra records that you based it on lies and corruption. So if you actually have proof that none of said founders and that Jesus guy had no inklings or intentions of using the creation of the religion to their advantage personally and such, then feel free to put that forward. Until then, baseless claims that human nature took no part in its creation are not helpful.

Hahahahahaha... So me saying that morality falsely being proposed to be objective has been used as a excuse to feed superiority complexes being interpreted by you as being founded to kill many (which it has been used for, fyi) is wrong because it was founded by people?

Really, that is actually really funny. You do realize that you have know idea the intentions of the people who made it? Oh, and in case you didn't know. If you're meaning to base something on lies and corruption, you tend to not make extra records that you based it on lies and corruption. So if you actually have proof that none of said founders and that Jesus guy had no inklings or intentions of using the creation of the religion to their advantage personally and such, then feel free to put that forward. Until then, baseless claims that human nature took no part in its creation are not helpful.

lx_theo

I find that experience in the real world works more than mockery of such well believed and thought out things. If you think I will go around killing people then you are sadly mistaken, though if I had no morality I probably would eventually not hesitate. But I can't possibly know that.

But if you think what I said is based on lies and corruption, I think you need to establish this point. Because the gospels here and the acts of the apostles are very important in terms of explaining the origins of Christianity. Quite frankly it is hte reason that Christianity was established by a group of men whom were known as the followers of the Christ who claimed he had risen from the dead. This is not a contested fact within history. No its very much a fact of history that this is how the Christian church originated. We know from the wide spread of early historical sources concerning this (both outside hte bible and inside) that Jesus had Desciples and they were the authorities of the ancient church and their claim at the centre of it as Saint Paul says was the ressurection of Christ. Its hard to imagine that if they just wanted to deceive they could have picked a much easier thing to claim, as this idea quite frankly was unknown to the jews and was anathema to the greeks who thought it useless the ressureciton. This is why Saint Paul says its a stumbling block, why the wisdom of men is nothing like the wisdom of God.

I am not sure that I agree with any of the red statements w/o further elaboration - which happens to be everything that you think is my position. I do not oppose killing under all circumstances. I am not entirely certain that I am convinced that God himself necessarily killed anyone a la Sodom et Gomorrah (as I am also not convinced that the entire Israeli population was enslaved by Egyptians, for instance). I do not believe that God is immoral.

Your move.

Brosephus_Rex

Then lets suppose the bible is right, that God at certain times has killed a number of People, what is wrong with God doing so?

[QUOTE="lx_theo"] Hahahahahaha... So me saying that morality falsely being proposed to be objective has been used as a excuse to feed superiority complexes being interpreted by you as being founded to kill many (which it has been used for, fyi) is wrong because it was founded by people?

Really, that is actually really funny. You do realize that you have know idea the intentions of the people who made it? Oh, and in case you didn't know. If you're meaning to base something on lies and corruption, you tend to not make extra records that you based it on lies and corruption. So if you actually have proof that none of said founders and that Jesus guy had no inklings or intentions of using the creation of the religion to their advantage personally and such, then feel free to put that forward. Until then, baseless claims that human nature took no part in its creation are not helpful.

Philokalia

I find that experience in the real world works more than mockery of such well believed and thought out things. If you think I will go around killing people then you are sadly mistaken, though if I had no morality I probably would eventually not hesitate. But I can't possibly know that.

But if you think what I said is based on lies and corruption, I think you need to establish this point. Because the gospels here and the acts of the apostles are very important in terms of explaining the origins of Christianity. Quite frankly it is hte reason that Christianity was established by a group of men whom were known as the followers of the Christ who claimed he had risen from the dead. This is not a contested fact within history. No its very much a fact of history that this is how the Christian church originated. We know from the wide spread of early historical sources concerning this (both outside hte bible and inside) that Jesus had Desciples and they were the authorities of the ancient church and their claim at the centre of it as Saint Paul says was the ressurection of Christ. Its hard to imagine that if they just wanted to deceive they could have picked a much easier thing to claim, as this idea quite frankly was unknown to the jews and was anathema to the greeks who thought it useless the ressureciton. This is why Saint Paul says its a stumbling block, why the wisdom of men is nothing like the wisdom of God.

[QUOTE="Brosephus_Rex"]

I am not sure that I agree with any of the red statements w/o further elaboration - which happens to be everything that you think is my position. I do not oppose killing under all circumstances. I am not entirely certain that I am convinced that God himself necessarily killed anyone a la Sodom et Gomorrah (as I am also not convinced that the entire Israeli population was enslaved by Egyptians, for instance). I do not believe that God is immoral.

Your move.

Philokalia

Then lets suppose the bible is right, that God at certain times has killed a number of People, what is wrong with God doing so?

At least from a morality perspective.

And I never disputed any of those uncontested facts. I contested the fact that you know nothing of their motivations of people who can act in any way they which to be perceived. You acted as you knew one way or the other. Facts are that no one really has any idea if even Jesus wasn't just a conman who went all in. All I'm saying is that the rambling you inserted into this conversation (anything having to do with killing and reasons for being founded) are silly and largely based on nothing. lx_theo

Because people that worship God usually have a positive outlook on life even in the worst situations Bucked20

Because people that worship God usually have a positive outlook on life even in the worst situations Bucked20

It's actually true, believe it or not.ShadowsDemon

[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"]It's actually true, believe it or not.Zeviander

That's your opinion, mayne.ShadowsDemon

[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"]That's your opinion, mayne.Zeviander

I celebrate Christmas. But not for religious purposes. I see most religious holidays as a time for bonding and friendship. I don't think that you need to be christian to be able to appreciate the spirit of most holidays. Just because I'm a atheist does not mean I should set boundries for myself.

If one of the multitude of gods does exist, and assuming we are talking about the Christian god; worshipping god is one of the requirements in getting the keys to heaven.

Also god will kill your entire family and give you leprosy, if that happens WORSHIP HARDER.

If you mean in a religious way,nothing is good about it.

It took me a really long time to realize this but our lives are pointless. I was looking at these fish in a fish bowl one day and I was like, wow they have really pointless lives. All they do all day is swim around in that small inclosed fishbowl eat, sleep, and sh!t until they die. Then I looked at human life and realized it was really no different.

When I was younger I had high ambitions and goals for when I got older but as I got older I realized no matter how hard I try or how hard I work I am going to end up in the same place as everyone else, 6 feet under ground. Then there is the afterlife(if one really exists) were we worship a god for all eternity, yes master no master. I hate my boss and don't like being told what to do. Living knowing that's the way it's going to be forever doesn't excite me. I want to be my own boss my own god.

A healer once said some people progress through light and some people progress through darkness. Ones who progress through darkness loving and kind deeds only hinder thier progression. It's not necassary a bad thing though because he thought it needs to be this way for the other to exist. Without light there can be no darkness and vice versa. It's like the ying and yang emposing forces empower each other. I think I am one of those people who progress through darkness. I think positive and nothing but bad things happen to me. I have a negative thinking attitude and good comes from it. Is this how it's meant to be?

God forgive me but it's wrong but I plan to die, Either take me in heaven and understand I was a G' did the best I could, raised in insanity or send me to hell cause I ain't beggin' for my life Ain't nothing worse then this cursed ass hopeless life. - Tupac Shakur

Is hell really that much worse then living here on earth?

-Renegade