What is wrong with being a Zionist?

[QUOTE="Allthishate"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] a nation is also its peopleDarkman2007

Because you are devolving the argument to a pointless issue of semantics.

Why is it inconceiveable to hate the state but not the nation. In fact, it happens all the time. It's pretty much the source of every civil war, for example.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Allthishate"] seriiously lol fuk @#% rofl this is getting tedious and pathetic imoXaosII

Because you are devolving the argument to a pointless issue of semantics.

Why is it inconceiveable to hate the state but not the nation. In fact, it happens all the time. It's pretty much the source of every civil war, for example.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] Im not blaming you on a personal level , but what I am blaming you for pretty much ignoring history , by pretty much saying "well, society did not want the Jews, it tried to exterminate them several times, so what, who cares, they had no right to leave". again , its a matter of historical consequence, you can't just wash your hands of history and pretend like nothing happend.Darkman2007

I'm not ignoring history. Goddamn, I feel like I'm arguing with my grandmother here. Thick as a goddamn brick wall.

I never said "so what?" to the persecution of Jews. F*cking hell.....

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Allthishate"] seriiously lol fuk @#% rofl this is getting tedious and pathetic imoXaosII

Because you are devolving the argument to a pointless issue of semantics.

Why is it inconceiveable to hate the state but not the nation. In fact, it happens all the time. It's pretty much the source of every civil war, for example.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

I'm not ignoring history. Goddamn, I feel like I'm arguing with my grandmother here. Thick as a goddamn brick wall.

worlock77

I never said "so what?" to the persecution of Jews. F*cking hell.....

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

I'm not ignoring history. Goddamn, I feel like I'm arguing with my grandmother here. Thick as a goddamn brick wall.

worlock77

I never said "so what?" to the persecution of Jews. F*cking hell.....

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] if your response to it is basically "so what?" then yes, it is ignoring in a way. though frankly , the average Jew does not care wheter you (or anyone else) agrees with the creation of a Jewish state or not.Darkman2007

I never said "so what?" to the persecution of Jews. F*cking hell.....

hating the governemnt is not the same as a state, they are not the same. I do not hate Turkey , I might have some issues with its policy towars the Kurds, but I do not hate the country, or state (wheter you want to go through the political model or otherwise), that is one example. you can say its semantics, but I would say its important.Darkman2007

Cool. So now whenever he says "Isreal" implicitly convert it to "Isreali government" because now you know exactly what he means.

Then you can move on to actually discussing some kind of issue instead of playing semantics games.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

I never said "so what?" to the persecution of Jews. F*cking hell.....

Allthishate

hating the governemnt is not the same as a state, they are not the same. I do not hate Turkey , I might have some issues with its policy towars the Kurds, but I do not hate the country, or state (wheter you want to go through the political model or otherwise), that is one example. you can say its semantics, but I would say its important.Darkman2007

Yes, it is. The government is the state. The people are the nation, but the state is the government.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] if your response to it is basically "so what?" then yes, it is ignoring in a way. though frankly , the average Jew does not care wheter you (or anyone else) agrees with the creation of a Jewish state or not.Darkman2007

I never said "so what?" to the persecution of Jews. F*cking hell.....

How the f*ck am I ignoring the consequences of it? Am I being trolled here or what?

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] hating the governemnt is not the same as a state, they are not the same. I do not hate Turkey , I might have some issues with its policy towars the Kurds, but I do not hate the country, or state (wheter you want to go through the political model or otherwise), that is one example. you can say its semantics, but I would say its important.XaosII

Cool. So now whenever he says "Isreal" implicit convert it to "Isreali government" because now you know exactly what he means.

Then you can move on to actually discussing some kind of issue instead of playing semantics games.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

I never said "so what?" to the persecution of Jews. F*cking hell.....

worlock77

How the f*ck am I ignoring the consequences of it? Am I being trolled here or what?

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

I never said "so what?" to the persecution of Jews. F*cking hell.....

worlock77

How the f*ck am I ignoring the consequences of it? Am I being trolled here or what?

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

I never said "so what?" to the persecution of Jews. F*cking hell.....

Allthishate

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] if youre ignoring the consequences of it, you are. its not hard to understand, and Ive been saying the same thing over and over.Darkman2007

How the f*ck am I ignoring the consequences of it? Am I being trolled here or what?

- One consequence was the creation of the state of Israel. I never denied that. I don't know what your problem is.

- The state and the government are connected. The state/government and the nation aren't necessarily. The Italian nation, for instance, is still the Italian nation regardless of whether the state/government is individual city-states, the House of Savoy, Napoleon, the Fascists or the current Republic.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

How the f*ck am I ignoring the consequences of it? Am I being trolled here or what?

worlock77

- One consequence was the creation of the state of Israel. I never denied that. I don't know what your problem is.

- The state and the government are connected. The state/government and the nation aren't necessarily. The Italian nation, for instance, is still the Italian nation regardless of whether the state/government is individual city-states, the House of Savoy, Napoleon, the Fascists or the current Republic.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] then you tell me right here, what are the consequences of it? I still didn't hear it from you. as for your other comment, the state is a political unit, constrained by territory, the government is the ruler of that state , and implements various policies, one can quite easily have issues with the policy of a government without having nothing against the state itself. but the state, nation and government are connected, one has to remember that.LJS9502_basic

- One consequence was the creation of the state of Israel. I never denied that. I don't know what your problem is.

- The state and the government are connected. The state/government and the nation aren't necessarily. The Italian nation, for instance, is still the Italian nation regardless of whether the state/government is individual city-states, the House of Savoy, Napoleon, the Fascists or the current Republic.

No, and as I've said in this thread I believe that Israelis living there now have every right to be there. This whole thing started because I said that I don't agree with the notion that land belongs to you simply because your ancestors lived there and Darkman's been basically trying to put words in my mouth ever since.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

- One consequence was the creation of the state of Israel. I never denied that. I don't know what your problem is.

- The state and the government are connected. The state/government and the nation aren't necessarily. The Italian nation, for instance, is still the Italian nation regardless of whether the state/government is individual city-states, the House of Savoy, Napoleon, the Fascists or the current Republic.

worlock77

No, and as I've said in this thread I believe that Israelis living there now have every right to be there. This whole thing started because I said that I don't agree with the notion that land belongs to you simply because your ancestors lived there and Darkman's been basically trying to put words in my mouth ever since.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

How the f*ck am I ignoring the consequences of it? Am I being trolled here or what?

worlock77

- One consequence was the creation of the state of Israel. I never denied that. I don't know what your problem is.

- The state and the government are connected. The state/government and the nation aren't necessarily. The Italian nation, for instance, is still the Italian nation regardless of whether the state/government is individual city-states, the House of Savoy, Napoleon, the Fascists or the current Republic.

Hey, the same could go for Mormons. They want to move Jerusalem to the U.S. state of Missouri. Kevlar101

Speaking of, did you ever have any luck with your Mormon LDR?

[QUOTE="Kevlar101"]Hey, the same could go for Mormons. They want to move Jerusalem to the U.S. state of Missouri. worlock77

Speaking of, did you ever have any luck with your Mormon LDR?

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Kevlar101"]Hey, the same could go for Mormons. They want to move Jerusalem to the U.S. state of Missouri. Kevlar101

Speaking of, did you ever have any luck with your Mormon LDR?

Long distance relationship.

[QUOTE="Kevlar101"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Speaking of, did you ever have any luck with your Mormon LDR?

worlock77

Long distance relationship.

Listen if you didn't kill Jesus there wouldn't even be an issue, but you went ahead and did so. Pretty straight forward stuff.

Listen if you didn't kill Jesus there wouldn't even be an issue, but you went ahead and did so. Pretty straight forward stuff.

xscrapzx

Jews did not kill Jesus, that was the Romans who today are Italians. Jews killed Jesus is just anti-semitic.

Besides Jesus was a jew. It isn't who killed Jesus that matters to Christianity, it's the message of what he did when he was alive.

First off no matter how you spin it, the Jews were there first.

ShadowMoses900

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] then you tell me right here, what are the consequences of it? I still didn't hear it from you. as for your other comment, the state is a political unit, constrained by territory, the government is the ruler of that state , and implements various policies, one can quite easily have issues with the policy of a government without having nothing against the state itself. but the state, nation and government are connected, one has to remember that.LJS9502_basic

- One consequence was the creation of the state of Israel. I never denied that. I don't know what your problem is.

- The state and the government are connected. The state/government and the nation aren't necessarily. The Italian nation, for instance, is still the Italian nation regardless of whether the state/government is individual city-states, the House of Savoy, Napoleon, the Fascists or the current Republic.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

- One consequence was the creation of the state of Israel. I never denied that. I don't know what your problem is.

- The state and the government are connected. The state/government and the nation aren't necessarily. The Italian nation, for instance, is still the Italian nation regardless of whether the state/government is individual city-states, the House of Savoy, Napoleon, the Fascists or the current Republic.

thebest31406

[QUOTE="thebest31406"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Isn't it time to move past the creation and solve the problems now. You don't advocate removing Israeli's from their home do you?Darkman2007

Seriously dude, would you stop conflating users on this board with the actions of people who were around 70 years ago?

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="thebest31406"] Stop vetoing the 2-state solution; problem solved. "You don't advocate removing Israeli's from their home do you?" Whaa?! Loool; irony and whatnot.worlock77

Seriously dude, would you stop conflating users on this board with the actions of people who were around 70 years ago?

no I won't and frankly I will use it against them for the next thousand years if need be. the fact of the matter is , if somebody feels the need to complain about the creation of the Jewish state, despite history (in many cases his own people's history), then I will indeed sink quite low if need be, and this includes blaming them for stuff that happened not all that long ago tbh, hell , given the figures , Id say I still have things to blame them for, so why not eh.

courtesy will be met with courtesy, simple as that really.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] nobody is vetoing anything, they won't agree to the offers being made. the Jews are there, deal with it, get over it, you did not want them near you, youre free to try and remove them , good thing that unlike the last time, they are very well armed.Darkman2007

Seriously dude, would you stop conflating users on this board with the actions of people who were around 70 years ago?

no I won't and frankly I will use it against them for the next thousand years if need be. the fact of the matter is , if somebody feels the need to complain about the creation of the Jewish state, despite history (in many cases his own people's history), then I will indeed sink quite low if need be, and this includes blaming them for stuff that happened not all that long ago tbh, hell , given the figures , Id say I still have things to blame them for, so why not eh.

courtesy will be met with courtesy, simple as that really.

So what next? You going to charge us gentiles on Gamespot with responsibility for the Holocaust too?

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] nobody is vetoing anything, they won't agree to the offers being made. the Jews are there, deal with it, get over it, you did not want them near you, youre free to try and remove them , good thing that unlike the last time, they are very well armed.Darkman2007

Seriously dude, would you stop conflating users on this board with the actions of people who were around 70 years ago?

no I won't and frankly I will use it against them for the next thousand years if need be. the fact of the matter is , if somebody feels the need to complain about the creation of the Jewish state, despite history (in many cases his own people's history), then I will indeed sink quite low if need be, and this includes blaming them for stuff that happened not all that long ago tbh, hell , given the figures , Id say I still have things to blame them for, so why not eh.

courtesy will be met with courtesy, simple as that really.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Seriously dude, would you stop conflating users on this board with the actions of people who were around 70 years ago?

worlock77

no I won't and frankly I will use it against them for the next thousand years if need be. the fact of the matter is , if somebody feels the need to complain about the creation of the Jewish state, despite history (in many cases his own people's history), then I will indeed sink quite low if need be, and this includes blaming them for stuff that happened not all that long ago tbh, hell , given the figures , Id say I still have things to blame them for, so why not eh.

courtesy will be met with courtesy, simple as that really.

So what next? You going to charge us gentiles on Gamespot with responsibility for the Holocaust too?

So what next? You going to charge us gentiles on Gamespot with responsibility for the Holocaust too?worlock77

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

no I won't and frankly I will use it against them for the next thousand years if need be. the fact of the matter is , if somebody feels the need to complain about the creation of the Jewish state, despite history (in many cases his own people's history), then I will indeed sink quite low if need be, and this includes blaming them for stuff that happened not all that long ago tbh, hell , given the figures , Id say I still have things to blame them for, so why not eh.

courtesy will be met with courtesy, simple as that really.

Darkman2007

So what next? You going to charge us gentiles on Gamespot with responsibility for the Holocaust too?

The problem here is that people haven't said that the state of Israel shouldn't have been created. Some just simply take issues with the actions of the Israeli government. You, however, cannot accept such criticism and throw bigoted statements like these around.

And sorry, but ones history does not give one the right to oppress others.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

So what next? You going to charge us gentiles on Gamespot with responsibility for the Holocaust too?

worlock77

The problem here is that people haven't said that the state of Israel shouldn't have been created. Some just simply take issues with the actions of the Israeli government. You, however, cannot accept such criticism and throw bigoted statements like these around.

And sorry, but ones history does not give one the right to oppress others.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] no , but like I said, courtesy will be met by courtesy, I do not complain to people on the other side of the world on why their country should or should not not have been created, and yet people seem quite happy to do the same thing to the Jewish people, and unless those people are at war with me , they really have no reason to complain either. I (and frankly alot fo Jews) find that insulting, it makes one feel as though his history means nothing (and history is important in the Jewish culture), as such , if they insult me , I will insult them back , and this is one way to do it. like I said, courtesy will be met by courtesy.Darkman2007

The problem here is that people haven't said that the state of Israel shouldn't have been created. Some just simply take issues with the actions of the Israeli government. You, however, cannot accept such criticism and throw bigoted statements like these around.

And sorry, but ones history does not give one the right to oppress others.

Actually I said that Jews there have every right to be there. What I said what that your ancestors living in a place does not give you rights to that land. Stop putting words in my mouth and at least attempt to have an honest discussion.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

The problem here is that people haven't said that the state of Israel shouldn't have been created. Some just simply take issues with the actions of the Israeli government. You, however, cannot accept such criticism and throw bigoted statements like these around.

And sorry, but ones history does not give one the right to oppress others.

worlock77

Actually I said that Jews there have every right to be there. What I said what that your ancestors living in a place does not give you rights to that land. Stop putting words in my mouth and at least attempt to have an honest discussion.

Darkman2007

caught red handed :lol: