What is wrong with being a Zionist?

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

As I said before and will say again, Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitism, without a doubt.

Aljosa23

As I've said before and will say again, you are an idiot, without a doubt.

I see nothing wrong with it. If they can beat the Palestinians in combat and take the land then all the more power to them I suppose.Crunchy_Nuts

It has multiple meanings. Referring to Jews having Israel as a land, it is fine.
Though to mention, the whole story of Mount Sinai is that, a story. Archaeologist found no proof of it. And these were Jewish archaeologists too.

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"]I see nothing wrong with it. If they can beat the Palestinians in combat and take the land then all the more power to them I suppose.Abbeten

[QUOTE="Abbeten"][QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"]I see nothing wrong with it. If they can beat the Palestinians in combat and take the land then all the more power to them I suppose.Yusuke420

If I recall, Zionism holds the belief that Jews are the people who have been chosen by God above all others. Considering the similarity that idea has to Nazism's cult-like attitude about Aryan born with blonde hair and blue eyes, and what happened during World War 2, any country with such a belief at its core is going to be considered odd and perhaps negative. With the way that Jews regained Israel, their modern history of warfare, and their military capabilities, they look like the antagonist against other middle eastern countries such as Iran.BranKetra

Chosen does not mean better. God told the Israelites (AKA the Jews as the term "Jew" did not exist until later) that he chose them not because they were strong or superior, because they were few and hated, and they were to be a light unto the nations and an example to the world under the belief of one true God. The covenant God made with the Israelites is eternal, and we will be his people forever. To deny this is calling God a liar, and God does not lie.

It has nothing to do with nazi'ism, what kind of thought is that? The Jews do not believe that they are racially superior (There are Jews of all races who are not ethnically Jewish but got adopted into the tribe through conversion) nor do Jews put people in death camps or try to do ethnic cleansing. You don't seem to know what your talking about.

And Iran picks on the Jews, not the other way around.

Define 'anti-Zionism' thenAbbeten

People who hate Israel, don't believe Jews have a right to a homeland, people who hate the Jewish culture, ethnicity, and religion. Anti-Semites.

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]Define 'anti-Zionism' thenShadowMoses900

People who hate Israel, don't believe Jews have a right to a homeland, people who hate the Jewish culture, ethnicity, and religion. Anti-Semites.

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]Define 'anti-Zionism' thenShadowMoses900

People who hate Israel, don't believe Jews have a right to a homeland, people who hate the Jewish culture, ethnicity, and religion. Anti-Semites.

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]Define 'anti-Zionism' thenShadowMoses900

People who hate Israel, don't believe Jews have a right to a homeland, people who hate the Jewish culture, ethnicity, and religion. Anti-Semites.

And what of those who have no problem with Jews, nor with Jews having a homeland in Israel, yet find many of the actions of the modern state of Israel objectionable?

[QUOTE="Abbeten"][QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"]I see nothing wrong with it. If they can beat the Palestinians in combat and take the land then all the more power to them I suppose.Yusuke420

Israel is a blessing to the Middle East, it's a gift. It's prescence spreads moral values and human rights and democracy.

Even if Israel left (which will never happen) there would still be fighting in that area. Arabs hate other Arabs and often fight amongst each other, like the Palestinian Civil War between Hamas and the Fatah. It doesn't matter if the Jews are there or not, they will always fight each other. Israel is the only country that can bring the peace.

And I can gurantee you that the Arabs would kill all the Jews if the got the chance.

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

[QUOTE="Abbeten"] The hell is it with the 'might makes right' mentality on this board? It's okay to do whatever you want as long as you have the power to do so?ShadowMoses900

Israel is a blessing to the Middle East, it's a gift. It's prescence spreads moral values and human rights and democracy.

Even if Israel left (which will never happen) there would still be fighting in that area. Arabs hate other Arabs and often fight amongst each other, like the Palestinian Civil War between Hamas and the Fatah. It doesn't matter if the Jews are there or not, they will always fight each other. Israel is the only country that can bring the peace.

And I can gurantee you that the Arabs would kill all the Jews if the got the chance.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]Define 'anti-Zionism' thenworlock77

People who hate Israel, don't believe Jews have a right to a homeland, people who hate the Jewish culture, ethnicity, and religion. Anti-Semites.

And what of those who have no problem with Jews, nor with Jews having a homeland in Israel, yet find many of the actions of the modern state of Israel objectionable?

You find protecting your citizens and standing up for them objectionable?

Israel never throws the first punch, they don't fire bomb civilian areas. The Arab countries however do, and they do acts of terrorism.

worlock77

Excellent rebuttal. Anti-Zionism is considered Anti-Semitism in most cases. Good effort though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism#Anti-Zionism_and_antisemitism

"Professor Kenneth L. Marcus, former staff director at the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, identifies four main views on the relationship between anti-Zionism and antisemitism, at least in North America: anti-Zionism is anti-Semitic in its essence and in most, if not all, of its manifestations"

"Unsurprisingly, recent research has shown a close correlation between anti-Israeli views and anti-Semitic views based on a survey of citizens in ten European countries."

"Anti-Zionism has become the most dangerous and effective form of anti-Semitism in our time, through its systematic delegitimization, defamation, and demonization of Israel. Although not a priori anti-Semitic, the calls to dismantle the Jewish state, whether they come from Muslims, the Left, or the radical Right, increasingly rely on an anti-Semitic stereotypization of classic themes, such as the manipulative "Jewish lobby," the Jewish/Zionist "world conspiracy," and Jewish/Israeli "warmongers."

"Dina Porat (head of the Institute for Study of Anti-semitism and Racism at Tel-Aviv University) contends that anti-Zionism is anti-semitic because it is discriminatory"

"Israeli journalist Ben-Dror Yemini maintains that anti-Zionism is politically correct antisemitism"

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

People who hate Israel, don't believe Jews have a right to a homeland, people who hate the Jewish culture, ethnicity, and religion. Anti-Semites.

ShadowMoses900

And what of those who have no problem with Jews, nor with Jews having a homeland in Israel, yet find many of the actions of the modern state of Israel objectionable?

You find protecting your citizens and standing up for them objectionable?

Israel never throws the first punch, they don't fire bomb civilian areas. The Arab countries however do, and they do acts of terrorism.

Wow.Abbeten

Israel along with the maybe Turkey and the UAE(and even that's being a bit too nice) are pretty much the most the only Arab countries that are modern by Western standards.

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

[QUOTE="Abbeten"] The hell is it with the 'might makes right' mentality on this board? It's okay to do whatever you want as long as you have the power to do so?ShadowMoses900

Israel is a blessing to the Middle East, it's a gift. It's prescence spreads moral values and human rights and democracy.

Even if Israel left (which will never happen) there would still be fighting in that area. Arabs hate other Arabs and often fight amongst each other, like the Palestinian Civil War between Hamas and the Fatah. It doesn't matter if the Jews are there or not, they will always fight each other. Israel is the only country that can bring the peace.

And I can gurantee you that the Arabs would kill all the Jews if the got the chance.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

And what of those who have no problem with Jews, nor with Jews having a homeland in Israel, yet find many of the actions of the modern state of Israel objectionable?

Abbeten

You find protecting your citizens and standing up for them objectionable?

Israel never throws the first punch, they don't fire bomb civilian areas. The Arab countries however do, and they do acts of terrorism.

They need to stop firing rockets into Israel (especially civilian territory). That's why the Jews built the security wall. It was nesseccary.

And Gaza is controlled by Hamas, they hate the Jews completely just like Hezbollha. They are anti zionists, that's what all anti zionists are like.

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]Wow.kingkong0124

Israel along with the maybe Turkey and the UAE(and even that's being a bit too nice) are pretty much the most the only Arab countries that are modern by Western standards.

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]Wow.kingkong0124

Israel along with the maybe Turkey and the UAE(and even that's being a bit too nice) are pretty much the most the only Arab countries that are modern by Western standards.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"] It's not right, but who is going to put a stop to it. If Israel left tomorrow, would palestine really be happy and not try to continue to kill jews?

-Sun_Tzu-

Israel is a blessing to the Middle East, it's a gift. It's prescence spreads moral values and human rights and democracy.

Even if Israel left (which will never happen) there would still be fighting in that area. Arabs hate other Arabs and often fight amongst each other, like the Palestinian Civil War between Hamas and the Fatah. It doesn't matter if the Jews are there or not, they will always fight each other. Israel is the only country that can bring the peace.

And I can gurantee you that the Arabs would kill all the Jews if the got the chance.

Israel has served as the perfect model for a religious country and a democracy...a great model that many of these ME countries could follow. Thing is, many people in the ME don't want a tolerant, fair democracy but rather a Sharia-based democracy, and in many cases, they don't want democracy at all.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]Wow.-Sun_Tzu-

Israel along with the maybe Turkey and the UAE(and even that's being a bit too nice) are pretty much the most the only Arab countries that are modern by Western standards.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]Wow.FMAB_GTO

Israel along with the maybe Turkey and the UAE(and even that's being a bit too nice) are pretty much the most the only Arab countries that are modern by Western standards.

That is because of the oil trade, but Lebanon is also home to Hezbollah, and they are terrorists. But Israel kicked Lebanons ass before and they could do it again if they wanted to. They should be thankful to Israel for sparing them and abandon their Hezbollah terrorist campaign.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]Wow.-Sun_Tzu-

Israel along with the maybe Turkey and the UAE(and even that's being a bit too nice) are pretty much the most the only Arab countries that are modern by Western standards.

[QUOTE="FMAB_GTO"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

Israel along with the maybe Turkey and the UAE(and even that's being a bit too nice) are pretty much the most the only Arab countries that are modern by Western standards.

ShadowMoses900

That is because of the oil trade, but Lebanon is also home to Hezbollah, and they are terrorists. But Israel kicked Lebanons ass before and they could do it again if they wanted to. They should be thankful to Israel for sparing them and abandon their Hezbollah terrorist campaign.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Israel is a blessing to the Middle East, it's a gift. It's prescence spreads moral values and human rights and democracy.

Even if Israel left (which will never happen) there would still be fighting in that area. Arabs hate other Arabs and often fight amongst each other, like the Palestinian Civil War between Hamas and the Fatah. It doesn't matter if the Jews are there or not, they will always fight each other. Israel is the only country that can bring the peace.

And I can gurantee you that the Arabs would kill all the Jews if the got the chance.

kingkong0124

Israel has served as the perfect model for a religious country and a democracy...a great model that many of these ME countries could follow. Thing is, many people in the ME don't want a tolerant, fair democracy but rather a Sharia-based democracy, and in many cases, they don't want democracy at all.

Exactly.

I don't know why so many people on here don't seem to grasp this. It's like they live in a fantasy land or something. They are always against Israel on everything it does, even if it's a peace treaty. They always complain and say "oh it wasn't good enough". Nothing is good enough for them.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

As I said before and will say again, Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitism, without a doubt.

TehFuneral

:|

What about those religious Jews that are opposed to Israel as a homeland of Jews?

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]If I recall, Zionism holds the belief that Jews are the people who have been chosen by God above all others. Considering the similarity that idea has to Nazism's cult-like attitude about Aryan born with blonde hair and blue eyes, and what happened during World War 2, any country with such a belief at its core is going to be considered odd and perhaps negative. With the way that Jews regained Israel, their modern history of warfare, and their military capabilities, they look like the antagonist against other middle eastern countries such as Iran.ShadowMoses900

Chosen does not mean better. God told the Israelites (AKA the Jews as the term "Jew" did not exist until later) that he chose them not because they were strong or superior, because they were few and hated, and they were to be a light unto the nations and an example to the world under the belief of one true God. The covenant God made with the Israelites is eternal, and we will be his people forever. To deny this is calling God a liar, and God does not lie.

It has nothing to do with nazi'ism, what kind of thought is that? The Jews do not believe that they are racially superior (There are Jews of all races who are not ethnically Jewish but got adopted into the tribe through conversion) nor do Jews put people in death camps or try to do ethnic cleansing. You don't seem to know what your talking about.

And Iran picks on the Jews, not the other way around.

God didn't tell anyone anything. People made it up.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="FMAB_GTO"] Lebanon is at its best places. We have everything the west have in the filthy rich places,like the downtown.FMAB_GTO

That is because of the oil trade, but Lebanon is also home to Hezbollah, and they are terrorists. But Israel kicked Lebanons ass before and they could do it again if they wanted to. They should be thankful to Israel for sparing them and abandon their Hezbollah terrorist campaign.

Ran away? Israel kicked Lebanons ass.

The PLO assassinated the President of Egypt after he recognized Israel as a country. Israel then attacked Lebanon PLO bases (after numerous terrorist attacks commited on Israel from Lebanon mind you). Israel had controll of southern Lebanon for like 20 years. They had Lebanon by the balls, then their terrorist Hezbollah rose up (party of god my ass).

Israel only left as a sign of forgiveness and peace, and to deal with the conflict in Gaza/West Bank which was caused by terrorist groups like Hezbollah and later Hammas.

[QUOTE="Abbeten"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

You find protecting your citizens and standing up for them objectionable?

Israel never throws the first punch, they don't fire bomb civilian areas. The Arab countries however do, and they do acts of terrorism.

ShadowMoses900

They need to stop firing rockets into Israel (especially civilian territory). That's why the Jews built the security wall. It was nesseccary.

And Gaza is controlled by Hamas, they hate the Jews completely just like Hezbollha. They are anti zionists, that's what all anti zionists are like.

[QUOTE="Abbeten"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

You find protecting your citizens and standing up for them objectionable?

Israel never throws the first punch, they don't fire bomb civilian areas. The Arab countries however do, and they do acts of terrorism.

ShadowMoses900

They need to stop firing rockets into Israel (especially civilian territory). That's why the Jews built the security wall. It was nesseccary.

And Gaza is controlled by Hamas, they hate the Jews completely just like Hezbollha. They are anti zionists, that's what all anti zionists are like.

Hey man there just defending themselves! (against unarmed civilians)

Like I just don't get why the Jews in Israel don't cooperate with the Palestinians... I guess it COULD have something to do with some of those rockets....

If I recall, Zionism holds the belief that Jews are the people who have been chosen by God above all others. Considering the similarity that idea has to Nazism's cult-like attitude about Aryan born with blonde hair and blue eyes, and what happened during World War 2, any country with such a belief at its core is going to be considered odd and perhaps negative. With the way that Jews regained Israel, their modern history of warfare, and their military capabilities, they look like the antagonist against other middle eastern countries such as Iran.BranKetra

[QUOTE="FMAB_GTO"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

That is because of the oil trade, but Lebanon is also home to Hezbollah, and they are terrorists. But Israel kicked Lebanons ass before and they could do it again if they wanted to. They should be thankful to Israel for sparing them and abandon their Hezbollah terrorist campaign.

ShadowMoses900

Ran away? Israel kicked Lebanons ass.

The PLO assassinated the President of Egypt after he recognized Israel as a country. Israel then attacked Lebanon PLO bases (after numerous terrorist attacks commited on Israel from Lebanon mind you). Israel had controll of southern Lebanon for like 20 years. They had Lebanon by the balls, then their terrorist Hezbollah rose up (party of god my ass).

Israel only left as a sign of forgiveness and peace, and to deal with the conflict in Gaza/West Bank which was caused by terrorist groups like Hezbollah and later Hammas.

they don't want democracy at all.

kingkong0124

[QUOTE="FMAB_GTO"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

That is because of the oil trade, but Lebanon is also home to Hezbollah, and they are terrorists. But Israel kicked Lebanons ass before and they could do it again if they wanted to. They should be thankful to Israel for sparing them and abandon their Hezbollah terrorist campaign.

ShadowMoses900

Ran away? Israel kicked Lebanons ass.

The PLO assassinated the President of Egypt after he recognized Israel as a country. Israel then attacked Lebanon PLO bases (after numerous terrorist attacks commited on Israel from Lebanon mind you). Israel had controll of southern Lebanon for like 20 years. They had Lebanon by the balls, then their terrorist Hezbollah rose up (party of god my ass).

Israel only left as a sign of forgiveness and peace, and to deal with the conflict in Gaza/West Bank which was caused by terrorist groups like Hezbollah and later Hammas.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]Define 'anti-Zionism' thenworlock77

People who hate Israel, don't believe Jews have a right to a homeland, people who hate the Jewish culture, ethnicity, and religion. Anti-Semites.

And what of those who have no problem with Jews, nor with Jews having a homeland in Israel, yet find many of the actions of the modern state of Israel objectionable?

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

they don't want democracy at all.

-Sun_Tzu-

There are a lot of Arabs who want democracy, and non Arab countries as well. But the people in power are dictatorships, so all these civil wars are fighting over this. Israel is the only successful democracy in the ME, if the other countries were to recognise it and allie with it then maybe Israel would help them out and teach them what Democracy is.

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]If I recall, Zionism holds the belief that Jews are the people who have been chosen by God above all others. Considering the similarity that idea has to Nazism's cult-like attitude about Aryan born with blonde hair and blue eyes, and what happened during World War 2, any country with such a belief at its core is going to be considered odd and perhaps negative. With the way that Jews regained Israel, their modern history of warfare, and their military capabilities, they look like the antagonist against other middle eastern countries such as Iran.ShadowMoses900

Chosen does not mean better. God told the Israelites (AKA the Jews as the term "Jew" did not exist until later) that he chose them not because they were strong or superior, because they were few and hated, and they were to be a light unto the nations and an example to the world under the belief of one true God. The covenant God made with the Israelites is eternal, and we will be his people forever. To deny this is calling God a liar, and God does not lie.

It has nothing to do with nazi'ism, what kind of thought is that? The Jews do not believe that they are racially superior (There are Jews of all races who are not ethnically Jewish but got adopted into the tribe through conversion) nor do Jews put people in death camps or try to do ethnic cleansing. You don't seem to know what your talking about.

And Iran picks on the Jews, not the other way around.

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

[QUOTE="Abbeten"] The hell is it with the 'might makes right' mentality on this board? It's okay to do whatever you want as long as you have the power to do so?ShadowMoses900

Israel is a blessing to the Middle East, it's a gift.

Israel is a blessing to the region? A country that cannot make peace is not a blessing. They haven't stabilized the region that I can see.

This isn't mean to be critical of Israel, just critical of Shadow's description, which I think is ridiculous.

The US isn't a blessing to anyone, and I love this country.

Israel is a blessing to the region? A country that cannot make peace is not a blessing. They haven't stabilized the region that I can see.

This isn't mean to be critical of Israel, just critical of Shadow's description, which I think is ridiculous.

The US isn't a blessing to anyone, and I love this country.

jimkabrhel

[QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

As I said before and will say again, Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitism, without a doubt.

Darkman2007

:|

What about those religious Jews that are opposed to Israel as a homeland of Jews?

Wait really? What Jews are we talking about?

Because it would really be ironic that these Jews who march down the road holding palestinian hands and flags would want those very same palestinians dead at some point in their lives...

Israel is a blessing to the region? A country that cannot make peace is not a blessing. They haven't stabilized the region that I can see.

This isn't mean to be critical of Israel, just critical of Shadow's description, which I think is ridiculous.

The US isn't a blessing to anyone, and I love this country.

jimkabrhel

Israel is the ONLY real democracy in the ME, it is the ONLY country that values human rights. Women can go where they want and dress how they want, you can be of any religion you choose (or lack thereof), they even let gays serve openly in their military.

Go to an Arab country and try that. Watch what happens. Israel's values should move to other countries.

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]If I recall, Zionism holds the belief that Jews are the people who have been chosen by God above all others. Considering the similarity that idea has to Nazism's cult-like attitude about Aryan born with blonde hair and blue eyes, and what happened during World War 2, any country with such a belief at its core is going to be considered odd and perhaps negative. With the way that Jews regained Israel, their modern history of warfare, and their military capabilities, they look like the antagonist against other middle eastern countries such as Iran.Darkman2007

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

:|

What about those religious Jews that are opposed to Israel as a homeland of Jews?

TehFuneral

Wait really? What Jews are we talking about?

Because it would really be ironic that these Jews who march down the road holding palestinian hands and flags would want those very same palestinians dead at some point in their lives...

Define zionist, then I will tell you whether or not I have a problem with it. That term means different things to different people.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

:|

What about those religious Jews that are opposed to Israel as a homeland of Jews?

TehFuneral

Wait really? What Jews are we talking about?

Because it would really be ironic that these Jews who march down the road holding palestinian hands and flags would want those very same palestinians dead at some point in their lives...

Some sects of the more consertavie Jews (Orthodox, they wear all black and are very strict) do not believe in Israel because they think only the Messiah can bring upon the return of the Jews and the building of Israel as a nation and the Temple rebuilt.

But no one cares about what they think, at least I don't. Orthodox Jews don't live in modern reality and they don't accept even other Jews who are non Orthodox. Just in general mind you, I know some Orthodox Jews in the US and we get along fine despite our differences.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="BranKetra"]If I recall, Zionism holds the belief that Jews are the people who have been chosen by God above all others. Considering the similarity that idea has to Nazism's cult-like attitude about Aryan born with blonde hair and blue eyes, and what happened during World War 2, any country with such a belief at its core is going to be considered odd and perhaps negative. With the way that Jews regained Israel, their modern history of warfare, and their military capabilities, they look like the antagonist against other middle eastern countries such as Iran.BranKetra