Was Darth Vader the most powerful Sith?

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uninspiredcup

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#1  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 47324 Posts

In episode 1 qui gon jinn says Anakin has the highest midichlorians ever, but when Yoda and Count Dooku fight, they are 10 times faster doing super jumps. When he fights Dooku in Episode 3 he is suppose to be double strength since episode 2 but still can't use super speed but still beats him? He fights Obi at normal speed, but gets beaten? So Obi one is more powerful than both Vader and Dooku? And apparently on a par or better than Yoda?

It seems Sidious can use force lightning but he can't? Darth Palagues can bring things back to life but he can't? And then his son who has been trained for about 6 weeks by a puppet on Dagobah beats him up in Return Of The Jedi? Anakin trained 8 till 30, and probably got more training afterwards.

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Renevent42

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#2 Renevent42
Member since 2010 • 6654 Posts

There's a few things going on, for one, there's a clear increase in action/abilities between the prequels and the old star wars movies. There's probably a few different reasons, but I think it's tied to the fact it's a new generation of watchers so the need to make force powers more pronounced and with the advent of CGI/effects the result is Jedi's doing things in the prequels that you didn't see in the originals. A lot of canon has been expanded for Star Wars as well since the originals, and I think a lot of it comes from that as well...but you can't go back and redo the originals of course...so it's difficult to keep everything as a series completely coherent and true to everything that was said at any point in the movies.

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#3  Edited By jun_aka_pekto
Member since 2010 • 25254 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:

In episode 1 qui gon jinn says Anakin has the highest midichlorians ever, but when Yoda and Count Dooku fight, they are 10 times faster doing super jumps. When he fights Dooku in Episode 3 he is suppose to be double strength since episode 2 but still can't use super speed but still beats him? He fights Obi at normal speed, but gets beaten? So Obi one is more powerful than both Vader and Dooku? And apparently on a par or better than Yoda?

When Darth fought Obi-wan on the third prequel, he was still the student which is exactly what he said later on when he fought Obi-Wan again in A New Hope.

I guess for humans, age does have a negative effect on Jedi powers.

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#4  Edited By Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

Jar jar was the most powerful sith. He operated right under qui and bens noses and nobody ever figured it out. The reason the yoda fight with dooku was wierd was because originally it was going to be jar jar and they just slapped dooku in as a hastily written non backstoried character at the last minute as a stand in after the script was changed.

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#5 PantsWearer
Member since 2015 • 69 Posts

Nope. The force isn't the only measure of power. He wasn't even given command of the death star by Sidious and it was the ultimate power in the universe. His sorcerer's ways aren't frightening anyone.

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#6  Edited By R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 38334 Posts
@Riverwolf007 said:

Jar jar was the most powerful sith. He operated right under qui and bens noses and nobody ever figured it out.

True, Jar Jar could do an amazing back flip for sure !

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#7 N30F3N1X
Member since 2009 • 8923 Posts

He wasn't even a real sith, he was just the emperor's little bitch.

If you want to see real power look at Nihilus or Traya.

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#8  Edited By Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

@R4gn4r0k: I always liked all the scenes where he was standing in the background putting words into peoples mouths. possessing the sea creature was pretty sweet too. He was even chewing it up as he woke up from his "panic". It's a shame lucas chickened out on the reveal. It would have totally justified how hated jar jar was and the phantom menace title would have made more sense.

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Jaysonguy

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#9 Jaysonguy
Member since 2006 • 39454 Posts

@Riverwolf007 said:

Jar jar was the most powerful sith. He operated right under qui and bens noses and nobody ever figured it out.

This is correct.

Lucas was making it so Jar Jar was the most powerful one of them all.

Unfortunately fandom lost their collective minds and he had to go with plan B.

What we've seen in the movies though no one can argue that Jar Jar wasn't the most powerful.

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#10 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

@Jaysonguy: it was a huge shame it got thrown out. The idea of the "anti yoda" was brilliant.

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#11 LexLas
Member since 2005 • 7317 Posts

Yoda was the most powerful, fastest, where it all began.

Loading Video...

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#12  Edited By Jaysonguy
Member since 2006 • 39454 Posts

@Riverwolf007 said:

@Jaysonguy: it was a huge shame it got thrown out. The idea of the "anti yoda" was brilliant.

I really think that Lucas misunderstood social media.

There was such an uproar from certain groups that I think Lucas thought it was everyone. Not really understanding that on social media everyone is complaining about something.

If he stayed the course I feel it would have brought the franchise to new heights.

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#13  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 47324 Posts

@jun_aka_pekto: But Obi is an old man now. So are Sidious and Duuko but they are able to use super speed and totally pointless backflips.

I guess it's like DnD where you'll be able to use web and cloudkill at higher levels. Even though Vader has the highest level cap, he's still rubbish well into his 50's.

This could be the suit having an overcumberence effect making him sort of moot.

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#14  Edited By Treflis
Member since 2004 • 13757 Posts

I've heard somewhere that many regard Exar Kun as the most powerful sith in the Star Wars Franchise.

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#16 themajormayor
Member since 2011 • 25729 Posts

There is absolutely no thought behind the prequels. The prequel universe barely has any kind of internal logic. So no Jedi/Sith is stronger than anyone else, except for when the script says so.

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#17 topgunmv
Member since 2003 • 10867 Posts

It's star wars. You're thinking too hard about it.

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#18 spike6958
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@Jaysonguy said:
@Riverwolf007 said:

@Jaysonguy: it was a huge shame it got thrown out. The idea of the "anti yoda" was brilliant.

I really think that Lucas misunderstood social media.

There was such an uproar from certain groups that I think Lucas thought it was everyone. Not really understanding that on social media everyone is complaining about something.

If he stayed the course I feel it would have brought the franchise to new heights.

I was talking about this with someone the other day. If Lucas had stuck with the idea of Jar Jar been a Sith, it would have saved his character, if not the prequels themselves. The funny thing was, that reaction to Jar Jar should have been what he wanted. Having people already disliking Jar Jar should have been seen as an opportunity, and when it's revealed in Episode 2 that Jar Jar is in fact a Sith Lord, people would have assumed that this was the reason they disliked him in Episode 1, because Lucas wanted them to dislike him.

Honestly, while I know they'd be forced to scrap the Clone Wars from canon (which is a shame, because the series was pretty good), I think Disney should get in touch with Lucas after seeing the overwhelmingly positive response the Internet has had to his original idea, and remake Episodes 2 and 3 as he originally intended them.

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#19 KratosYOLOSwag
Member since 2013 • 1827 Posts

Sidious is the most powerful sith. Anakin had the most potential but his full potential was never reached/was held back.

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#20  Edited By foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

Going by "movie canon", Sidious is the most powerful in terms of sheer power. Vader had to struggle to kill him.

In terms of the rest of the EU, it would likely be Darth Caedus (grandson of Vader), Darth Bane (destroyed most of the Sith to form Rule of Two) or Darth Revan (conquered the known galaxy).

EDIT: Had Plagueis on my mind.

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#21  Edited By GKMoggleMog
Member since 2015 • 351 Posts

Yoda has a more agile fighting style due to being short. Though I don't remember Dooku jumping around. Dooku had more of a fencer's fighting style.

Anakin is more of a brute force fighting style, so using Force abilities like super speed and other things just wasn't his style I guess. He did use a few super jumps in Clone Wars though I think, but they weren't agile hopping around but forceful Force Jumps.

For an example of the brute force style of fighting I'm talking about here's the Darth Vader fight in Rebels:

Loading Video...

His strength in the Force is also just him being stronger with it and not him having a better understanding of it. So he can lift more than others due to his brute strength with it like in this video, but he can't learn things easier than others. He may be able to do Force abilities that he does learn better than others though. Like for example if he did bother to learn Force Lightning it would potentially be much more powerful than other Force users once he mastered it.

Obi was still a trained master Jedi and the one that trained Anakin, and Anakin was cocky, arrogant and emotional, so it makes sense that Obi would beat him, especially with the high ground bit.

With Padme dead he didn't have a reason to keep people from dying. That's probably a Force ability that someone needs to be obsessed with and dedicate their entire life to learning.

And I don't think Darth Vader wanted to beat Luke.

But this is just stuff I've thought about that sounds right to fill in the blanks, I'm not sure any of it is confirmed.

Strongest maybe, but not the most powerful. The other Force demigods on the Force Planet in Clone Wars were also strong like him.

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#22  Edited By slateman_basic
Member since 2002 • 4142 Posts

No.

Bane.

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uninspiredcup

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#23  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 47324 Posts

This man has solved it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EGOYgK0t7EA

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#25 Wizard
Member since 2015 • 940 Posts

No. Sidious, followed by Cadeus and Plageus.

Comic Vine

Here's a link. Seriously, Old Republic Sith Lords like Revan and Bane are wanked harder than Pamela Anderson in a boy's home.

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#26 SolidSnake35
Member since 2005 • 58923 Posts

Jar Jar as the sith lord would have been interesting. Certainly more interesting than his dumb slapstick antics.

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#27  Edited By branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@uninspiredcup: Why not start by defining "power?"

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#29 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

Possibly in the films, absolutely no way in the extended universe.

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#30 Naoto
Member since 2016 • 6 Posts

His cyber limbs hindered his force ability. I'd go with the Emperor.

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#31  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 47324 Posts

@BranKetra: It seems pretty self explanatory "who would win in a fight".

Going by personal definition (self reliance) it probably would still end up being Papitine

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#32 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@uninspiredcup: Is that really self-explanatory?

After all, people may go to war with each other, but if their worldviews are self-defeating, the most powerful atomic bomb in existence cannot save them from ultimate defeat.