Ukraine Army on Full Alert as Russia Backs Sending Troops.

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#1 Posted by Master_Live (18821 posts) -

Ukraine army on full alert as Russia backs sending troops

Obama calls Putin to discuss Ukraine unrest

Two questions: Will the West do something? Should the West do something?

Avatar image for sherman-tank1
#2 Edited by sherman-tank1 (8315 posts) -

Obama's administration has been a foreign policy disaster. Look for that to continue.

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#3 Posted by Treflis (13402 posts) -

Pretty sure we'll say we don't condone of it and attempt some peaceful negotiation.

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#4 Posted by Chrypt22 (1387 posts) -

I never supported the war in Iraq, and Afghanistan was handled very irresponsibly. Putin has always wanted to take back what he thought was "Russia's" from the Cold War and now he has the motive to do so. EU is spineless, Obama is the same... nothing will be done. Shit, in all honesty Russia could probably take back the majority of what they lost aside from Germany and probably the Czech before the West was forced in to doing something. There is nothing worse than dealing with a bully who does not give a shit... he would rather see his country burn then back down to anyone in the west... especially Obama since he has proven himself weak. Obama's threats are one giant April fools joke... we know you don't mean it so why say it? Just STFU and tell it like it is... say you don't care and its not your problem. Pretending like your a tough bad ass does nothing especially when you get backed down at every instance.

To answer the second question... its pretty obvious that Russia staged a lot of the "revolt" in Crimea by sending in troops disguised as "rebels". If Crimea really wants to be part of Russia then thats fine... let them have elections and Ukraine and the west should support it. I honestly do not believe that Russia is just content with taking Crimea... they want the whole thing. They are hoping that they are provoked into a ground war which would give them, in their eyes, the justification for taking over the entire country if not more. So yes, the west should not stand for it. Should we provoke them into all out war? No, but we should put our money where our mouth is and offer our full support in protecting their sovereignty at whatever the cost. If Putin thinks that going in a all out war against a unified EU and US is a good idea then he is delusional. However there is absolutely no sign that will happen. EU will look at the US and cry... the bad man is picking on us.. and Obama will say shame on you Putin. Putin will shove Obama and nothing will happen other than Putin eyeing his next target. Putin wants a war and he knows now is the time to do it... because right now no one can agree on anything and everyone is waaaayyyy too soft.

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#5 Edited by plageus900 (2434 posts) -


I think the United States should let them handle their business and take a break from being the world police for a change.

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#6 Edited by CyberLips (1826 posts) -

@plageus900 said:

I think the United States should let them handle their business and take a break from being the world police for a change.

This ^

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#7 Posted by sonicare (55916 posts) -

What cracks me up is the massive hypocrisy I see at this site. People actually defending Russia's actions. Obviously, the US was wrong in its war with Iraq. But that doesnty magically give Russia the right to meddle with other nation's sovereignty. Of course, people will find ways to justify everything. Wonder what kuraimen thinks of this.

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#8 Edited by HoolaHoopMan (9471 posts) -

@sonicare said:

What cracks me up is the massive hypocrisy I see at this site. People actually defending Russia's actions. Obviously, the US was wrong in its war with Iraq. But that doesnty magically give Russia the right to meddle with other nation's sovereignty. Of course, people will find ways to justify everything. Wonder what kuraimen thinks of this.

Similar to my thoughts.

Avatar image for RadecSupreme
#9 Edited by RadecSupreme (4824 posts) -

I don't understand people talking about the US being spineless? Why the **** should the US do anything? I mean, people bitch at US for being the world police, yet it seems others bitch about US when they dont do anything. What the FLIPPING **** does the world want? US to get involved or not? It's hypocritical and pure contradiction policies.

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#10 Edited by Masculus (2878 posts) -

Despite my frequent jokes about Obama, I don't think the failure associated with the escalation of the conflict should be accounted on his bill. The EU has failed here. If he - Obama - is "spineless", EU's bureaucrats are not even invertebrates; they are fucking inorganic pos slimes. They should be the ones handling their backyard.

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#11 Posted by sherman-tank1 (8315 posts) -

@plageus900: The thing is it makes the US look bad. Why should somebody ally with the US when they know the US won't do anything to help them? Not only that, but Putin won't stop there. If we learned anything from World War II it is to stop this kind of aggression before Putin pushes his luck.

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#12 Posted by gamerguru100 (12701 posts) -

@plageus900 said:

I think the United States should let them handle their business and take a break from being the world police for a change.

Agreed. The situation is already enough of a clusterfuck. We don't need our government to interfere just for the sake of winning the biggest dick competition.

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#13 Posted by Stesilaus (4999 posts) -

@sonicare said:

What cracks me up is the massive hypocrisy I see at this site. People actually defending Russia's actions. Obviously, the US was wrong in its war with Iraq. But that doesnty magically give Russia the right to meddle with other nation's sovereignty. Of course, people will find ways to justify everything. Wonder what kuraimen thinks of this.

So it doesn't constitute "meddling with another nation's sovereignty" when the US spends $5 billion to "democratize" Ukraine by supporting a coup d'etat in the capital, but it's "meddling" when Putin sends troops to protect Crimea's democratically-elected local government from NATO-backed thugs intent on installing another rump parliament?

Geez. And you call Putin's supporters hypocrites!

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#14 Posted by lamprey263 (35007 posts) -

The US and UK both signed a treaty with Ukraine to protect its borders in exchange they disarm their nuclear arsenal, they're going to have to do something.

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#15 Posted by deeliman (3803 posts) -

People here saying that the EU should've done something already don't understand how the EU works. It's not a country; it has 28 countries in it all with differing opinions on the matter, so it's hard to make a quick decision. Some people want the EU to get involved, some don't, some want to get involved but with NATO instead of EU.

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#16 Posted by Master_Live (18821 posts) -

Of course some want NATO, EU can't do shit be itself.

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#17 Posted by Master_Live (18821 posts) -

If we go by what Wikipedia says (and I'm to tire to look elsewhere): "Russia, the UK and the USA undertake to respect Ukraine's borders in accordance with the principles of the 1975 CSCE Final Act, to abstain from the use or threat of force against Ukraine, to support Ukraine where an attempt is made to place pressure on it by economic coercion, and to bring any incident of aggression by a nuclear power before the UN Security Council".

  1. It says Russia should abstain from the use or threat of force against Ukraine, but so what? So they won't abstain.
  2. And to bring any incident of aggression by a nuclear power before the UN Security Council will be done but it doesn't matter since Russia has veto power.

So that thing means nothing, there isn't any binding agreement for the UK and/or the US to intervene.

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#18 Posted by airshocker (31700 posts) -

We should put a fleet in the Black Sea and see if Russia wants to continue from there. What they're doing is unlawful and no matter what you think about the US, we have the power to stop them.

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#19 Edited by deeliman (3803 posts) -

@airshocker I actually agree with you here, Russia has no right to violate Ukraine's sovereignty. I definitely think other NATO countries should help the US with this, especially the European ones.

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#20 Edited by Flubbbs (4948 posts) -

America is a paper tiger with Obama.. of course hes not gonna do anything.. Putin 2 - Obama 0.. thats not the score either.. thats how many balls each has

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#21 Edited by Stevo_the_gamer (44886 posts) -

The US will not do anything because Obama.

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#22 Posted by sonicare (55916 posts) -

As much as Obama's foreign policy has been terrible, I'm not sure what he can do in this situation. I dont anyone wants a military conflict between the US and Russia. Doesn't matter who would win, we'd all lose in that.

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#23 Edited by Perfect_Blue (30446 posts) -

@Master_Live said:

Of course some want NATO, EU can't do shit be itself.

The EU has nothing to do with Ukraine.

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#24 Edited by chaplainDMK (7004 posts) -

@Master_Live said:

Of course some want NATO, EU can't do shit be itself.

Hey, it's not like the EU has three and a half times the population, 8 times the GDP, two times the active military personnel and two and half times the military budget of the Russian Federation...

Also it's not like most of Russia's military hardware is out-dated and a good portion of it's troops and leadership poorly trained and badly motivated. Like notice how excellent they did in Chechenya and Georgia.

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#25 Posted by redstorm72 (4646 posts) -

I say stay out of it. If Russia wants to mess around with one of their former territories, let them. It's none of our concern. We invaded Iraq (twice) and Afghanistan for arguably less legitimate reasons, so we really don't have any moral ground to stand on. Besides, does anyone really want to play chicken with Putin?

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#26 Posted by GazaAli (25216 posts) -

Wow what the hell happened? This is all of a sudden the alternate universe of justice, virtue, righteousness and respecting states' sovereignty. And you have the nerve to talk about hypocrisy, oh the irony.

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#27 Edited by vfibsux (4497 posts) -

@RadecSupreme said:

I don't understand people talking about the US being spineless? Why the **** should the US do anything? I mean, people bitch at US for being the world police, yet it seems others bitch about US when they dont do anything. What the FLIPPING **** does the world want? US to get involved or not? It's hypocritical and pure contradiction policies.

Has always been this way. This time though it seems like the U.S. haters are cheering on Russia. Hypocrites indeed.

Ukraine had a chance to be in NATO and did not take it, we have no obligation to act here.

@GazaAli You cannot compare the excuses Russia is using to anything the U.S. has done recently. We had EVERY right to enter AFG after 9/11. Iraq was a mess, but hell at least we had a valid excuse at the time, even if it turned out to be wrong. Russia is bullshitting their way through this without even trying to make up a good reason.

But I digress, you are the one who is enjoying seeing the U.S. being put in its place. You think another cold war is a good thing, remember?

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#28 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (23423 posts) -

@plageus900 said:

I think the United States should let them handle their business and take a break from being the world police for a change.

Ditto.

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#29 Edited by themajormayor (25714 posts) -

@Stesilaus said:

@sonicare said:

What cracks me up is the massive hypocrisy I see at this site. People actually defending Russia's actions. Obviously, the US was wrong in its war with Iraq. But that doesnty magically give Russia the right to meddle with other nation's sovereignty. Of course, people will find ways to justify everything. Wonder what kuraimen thinks of this.

So it doesn't constitute "meddling with another nation's sovereignty" when the US spends $5 billion to "democratize" Ukraine by supporting a coup d'etat in the capital, but it's "meddling" when Putin sends troops to protect Crimea's democratically-elected local government from NATO-backed thugs intent on installing another rump parliament?

Geez. And you call Putin's supporters hypocrites!

The "coup d'etat" is obviously a Russian false flag operation.

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#30 Posted by Dogswithguns (11359 posts) -

I don't know what to say.. ??!!

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#31 Posted by sherman-tank1 (8315 posts) -

@Stesilaus: The "referendum" for Crimea to break off was actually falsified.

http://zn.ua/POLITICS/za-referendum-o-statuse-kryma-golosoval-ryad-deputatov-otsutstvovavshih-v-parlamente-ark-140014_.html

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#32 Posted by sonicare (55916 posts) -

@Stesilaus: You're missing the point. How does that justify what Russia did? Russia gave the last Ukraine president an enormous bribe to reject the EU. The people that elected him had wanted that deal to go forward. Hence, he got run out of his own country. And what exactly is Russia protecting the people in Crimea from? They weren't being killed. The only people killed were those that had been protesting the governments decisions. Those people werent pro-Russian. So I say you are being hypocritical when you denounce the US for meddling, but seem to give complete justification to Russia. It's not pick one side. Both are wrong.

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#33 Edited by Toxic-Seahorse (5011 posts) -

@plageus900 said:

I think the United States should let them handle their business and take a break from being the world police for a change.

That's stupid. This isn't a "world police" moment. We actually singed a pact to defend Ukraine if it were ever attacked in trade of them giving up their nuclear arsenal. Now Ukraine in under attack and what is Obama going to do? Break our pact with them. It's despicable and makes us look weak and pathetic as a country. We can't even uphold the defense pacts we make. Japan should be worried.

Besides, U.S. troops in Ukraine isn't going to start a war. Put them around Crimea to prevent Russia from advancing past the region. Russia isn't dumb enough to attack the U.S. over Eastern Ukraine. Neither side wants war with the other. Russia is only doing this now because they can get away with it. Put some troops in their way and they will stop. Sure Ukraine may lose Crimea this way, but they will get to keep the rest of their country. Appeasement never works against an aggressor.

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#34 Posted by Stesilaus (4999 posts) -

@themajormayor said:

The "coup d'etat" is obviously a Russian false flag operation.

I doubt that the entire coup is a Russian false flag operation, but even if it were it would constitute preemptive action on Russia's part, given that Western countries have long had designs on wresting Ukraine from Russian influence.

That said, now that Russia has given itself the latitude to intervene militarily, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Russian intelligence agents staged false flag attacks on Russian-speaking Ukrainians in the the southern and eastern provinces to justify seizing those territories too.

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#35 Posted by Stesilaus (4999 posts) -

@sherman-tank1 said:

@Stesilaus: The "referendum" for Crimea to break off was actually falsified.

http://zn.ua/POLITICS/za-referendum-o-statuse-kryma-golosoval-ryad-deputatov-otsutstvovavshih-v-parlamente-ark-140014_.html

Maybe, but then so was the Kiev parliament's decision to oust Yanukovych.

From this article:

There was an extraordinary session of Parliament [in Kiev], which was held after most members were told there would be no session and many had left. And then, under the chairmanship of the radical party Svoboda, this rump parliament declared that the president had resigned.

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#36 Posted by vfibsux (4497 posts) -

Russia demands surrender of Ukraine's Crimea forces

Wow.

Avatar image for Master_Live
#37 Edited by Master_Live (18821 posts) -

Just 3 questions suffice:

  • Is Russia content with just annexing Crimea?
  • Is the West willing to let Crimea go?
  • If it isn't, what is the West prepare to do to not let Crimea be annexed by Russia?

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#38 Posted by deeliman (3803 posts) -

I wonder if the EU will impose sanctions if the Russians do attack.

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#39 Posted by Gaming-Planet (19120 posts) -

US should just sit back and not give a **** for once, like how they don't give a **** about the rest of the world that don't revolve around their agenda.

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#40 Edited by Masculus (2878 posts) -

Harsh decision from Obama, don't know if the correct one. Wonder if the name calling, "sissy" etc, got under his skin.

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#42 Posted by vfibsux (4497 posts) -

@Gaming-Planet said:

US should just sit back and not give a **** for once, like how they don't give a **** about the rest of the world that don't revolve around their agenda.

What country are you from?

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#43 Posted by deactivated-598fc45371265 (13247 posts) -

Putin is disappointing me. I thought he was a cooler guy than this. :(

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#44 Posted by Toxic-Seahorse (5011 posts) -

@Master_Live said:

Just 3 questions suffice:

  • Is Russia content with just annexing Crimea?
  • Is the West willing to let Crimea go?
  • If it isn't, what is the West prepare to do to not let Crimea be annexed by Russia?

1. Most likely. They don't want to risk a war with the EU.

2. Of course they're willing to let Crimea go. The west is so war weary that nothing short of a full invasion of Ukraine is going to cause them to even threaten military intervention, and even then that's iffy. It's as bad as it was right before WW2. Nobody wants to stand up to the aggressor.

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#45 Posted by vfibsux (4497 posts) -

Russia test fires ICBM

Okay, Putin is starting to be a straight up dick now.

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#46 Edited by deeliman (3803 posts) -

@vfibsux said:

Russia test fires ICBM

Okay, Putin is starting to be a straight up dick now.

Russia did inform the white house about this a week before the test, so that was before Russian troops were even in Crimea. It's extremely unlikely that this has anything to do with the recent events.

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#47 Posted by airshocker (31700 posts) -

@deeliman said:

@airshocker I actually agree with you here, Russia has no right to violate Ukraine's sovereignty. I definitely think other NATO countries should help the US with this, especially the European ones.

To kind of sort of amend my statement, I would much rather a NATO response. It's better to show up with like-minded allies than to show up alone.

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#49 Posted by wis3boi (32507 posts) -

@Storm_Marine said:

Putin is disappointing me. I thought he was a cooler guy than this. :(

yeah, the KGB are totally cool people and so awesome and trustworthy

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#50 Edited by strategyfn (429 posts) -

It is the Ukraine who gives a crap, my opinion, besides they only took Crimea. Hell, Russia could march into Germany, where I am from, and I wouldn't want the USA or other countries to intervene by war.

Besides Putin has his reasons for marching into Crimea, right or not.

Let me get this straight, the USA gets to flatten Iraq with minimal reason to do so (Vietnam, a million killed), (the same people who want consequences for Russia say "we're oh so justified") and Russia isn't allowed to walk into some country (violate a nations sovereignty like the USA to Iraq) without being the bad guy?

I really don't care what happens in the Ukraine, I hope Russia leaves eventually or puts up some puppet regime and then leaves.

People are making mountains out of mole hills; like I said it is the Ukraine who gives a crap: They use to be Russia leaning for a long time.

I can see how Putin is justified. Aren't most of the arms Ukraine has Russian made, probably acquired through arms aid? He is securing Russian weapons stocks etc.

Some of you USA people are thinking Eastern Europeans are living the same, mall going, flatscreen TV watching, Hollywood movie enjoying, constant video game playing lives you do; in reality they are probably made up mostly of piss poor farmers, who really don't give a crap who they are governed by as long as the government is tolerable or half way fair. So fear not the Russians aren't disturbing the majority of Ukranians precious video game playing time.

I am sorry Airshocker, Russia was willing to give you Iraq, shouldn't you reciprocate by not giving a crap about the Ukraine. The key is to try and live in a fair world right? Not a USA is right no matter what world, right?

I fail to see how the USA escalating things, flattening the Ukraine (causing civilian deaths) and Russia and causing Armageddon would help the Ukranian (Crimean) civilians.LOL. Please do explain.

No, it is my opinion the west shouldn't do anything, at least my country. Maybe enact sanctions, or shun Russia diplomatically, but that is for politicians to figure out. Personally I am glad NATO isn't involved militarily.