Two HS students suspended for Confederate Flags

I can see why they were suspended.

Well if they, or some group of students, find the gay pride flag to be offensive or disruptive like some people think of the Confederate flag, then shouldn't the rainbow flag be banned from school as well?

In most other countries, a student would get far more flak from the staff for displaying what's considered a symbol of treason like that. It's probably equivalent to European students waving Nazi flags, or Chinese students waving ROC flags. Not surprising that this happened in a public school in the state of Washington.

Your school didn't allow American flags portrayed on clothing? Can't tell if political correctness gone mad or just plain stupidity.

it is really not the same thing. Although a little out of place for the state of Washington

Sorry I can't agree with that. The Confederate flag has nothing to do with homosexuality. And I'm not sure why anyone is making that connection.

If it's being disruptive and it's a distraction in the classroom, then yes. If they just wore a confederate flag I wouldn't have a problem with them doing so, but when other students are stating that it was an anti-gay statement it says to me that these students were probably bringing attention to themselves on purpose by vocalizing their intent.

Judging by what some say perhaps the best way to view it is to say:

"It's a symbol of MY freedom. Not yours though"

I agree with you that it isn't inherently anti-gay, but it's all about how it's used and in this context it seems like it was used as a way to voice an opinion that many at the school found disruptive or offensive.

Wouldn't that then make both T-shirts disruptive and not just the one?

@Makhaidos said:

@DJ419 said:

@Makhaidos said:

Good. The Confederate flag is a symbol of treason, slavery and ignorance and has no more place in a school than a Swastika.

England said the same about this one.

Primary difference being: that flag represents freedom from religious idiocy. People who wear the Confederate flag would have us all praying for Jaysus to protect our guns from evil brown people.

Hell, the students wore the Confederate flag in the first place because they were pissed about gays getting uppity.

1. actually that flag represented a set of colonies so up their own asses over perceived unfair policies of the crown even though things were far worse in their native land of england...etc including taxes which were far worse in england...etc often being 30-50% higher.

2. Actually it was more of a statement that If certain beliefs and political beliefs are allowed then they all should be....The result? nope only beliefs that are within the norms and politically correct are allowed.

3. and Actually no the confederate flag doesn't represent slavery If thats the case than next you're going to tell me that the entire civil war was over slavery, which it wasn't considering the fact that the emancipation proclamation was only enacted by lincoln to piss off southerners over stupid economic and social reasons.

You mean the rainbow flag one? Yeah, it would, but that's only after this incident. The student with the rainbow flag wasn't suspended for causing a disruption, because they were probably just wearing it and not trying to cause a scene, which it would seem was the intent of the students with the confederate flag.

@monkeytoes61 said:

@Makhaidos said:

@DJ419 said:

@Makhaidos said:

Good. The Confederate flag is a symbol of treason, slavery and ignorance and has no more place in a school than a Swastika.

England said the same about this one.

Primary difference being: that flag represents freedom from religious idiocy. People who wear the Confederate flag would have us all praying for Jaysus to protect our guns from evil brown people.

Hell, the students wore the Confederate flag in the first place because they were pissed about gays getting uppity.

Brush up on your history, the southern states broke away because they believed that each state should be its own entity.

Ahahaha, no. The states seceded 'cause they wanted to keep slavery. All this stuff about "states' rights" is a load of crap.

They were actually OPPOSED to states' rights as they bitched and moaned about northern states deciding not to return runaway slaves.

Yeah, exactly.

The pro-gay sentiment, regardless of whether or not it was "right" or "just" or "moral", resulted in a backlash. In this case, that backlash apparently came in the form of the students wearing the confederate shirts.

That backlash then results in a further response, which may or may not be stomped out. We stamp it out, then we're taking sides. We allow it to continue, then we're facilitating the existence of a discussion which (right or wrong) probably isn't conducive to the entire point of school.

Now do you guys see why some schools try to avoid this $hit entirely by requiring mandatory uniforms? "Oh, but it's trampling on my free speech." F*** that. Right or wrong, consider that you're just a person going to a school to get a freaking education, and then you see both the student body and the staff being divided over $hit like f***ing shirts. I'm totally pro gay rights, but look...this stuff IS often "disruptive". And not only within the student body, it's highly likely that there's disagreement among the faculty and staff about how to handle this. And the question is, "is this school environment the place for that kind of discussion?"

And seriously, I am not one to say that speech is off limits. Within the last few weeks, I gave a slideshow presentation including such mages as a man with his own erect d*** in his mouth, and a woman shoving her fist up a man's ass. Images and symbols provoke a response, and you either own up to the anticipated reaction or decide not to show the image or symbol. Right/wrong/true/false are things to be debated at some point, but the fact is that there very well can be a WRONG point at which to bring this stuff up. Case in point, school, jobs. You allow a "disruptive" and "pro gay" display that is "currently a hot issue" and "currently divisive", then you're either allowing discussion to dominate or you are taking a side. If I get a job, I don't give a $hit about this stuff. I'm part of a business, my job is to make money, we operate more effectively as a team, and we don't need this kind of $hit dividing us across political and social lines.

It's disruptive. Was the initial sentiment correct? Probably. But...wrong place and wrong time. Because you can't make a controversial statement and then expect the dissenters to STFU because they're wrong. If the wearing of the confederate flag is a response to the pro-gay display, then that is a very good indicator that the pro-gay display (though for a good cause) resulted in dissent that probably shouldn't be taking place there. If thst's a discussion that is to be had, then grow some balls and allow all sides to speak. Otherwise, stop forcing people to take sides, eliminate the discussion entirely, and F***ING STICK TO EDUCATING STUDENTS.

No because the was no intent to cause harm by wearing a gay T-shirt. What the other students did was clearly an attempt to offend other students.

Plenty of people wore the Confederate flag at my high school.

Disruption is disruption. We can't have freedom of speech for only a part of the population no matter what they believe.

Wearing the Confederate flag is about on par with wearing the American flag, IMO.

LOL historical revisionism at its finest. I'm Canadian and even I know the Civil war started because the South thought Lincoln the "Black Republican" was going to take all their slaves. The North weren't fighting to end slavery until Lincoln realized that was the only way to end the war was to end slavery.

@LJS9502_basic: It's not a FA issue because it's taking place in a school on an issue that schools have control over. Trying to draw an equivalence between a symbol for gay pride and the confederate flag is about the scummiest thing I've ever heard from you. One is trying to promote acceptance of a minority that is often singled out and mocked in a school environment, the other is holding on to a "culture" of racism and straight, white, Christian, male power. Regardless of the nuances of what the Confederate flag truly stands for, people are at least justified in being offended by it. Being offended by gay pride is just simple-minded and ignorant.

The succession followed quite a lot of policies the south did not agree with. And the government wasn't planning on freeing slaves. That was done as a punishment to the south. I think you didn't get the entire story up there TBH.

I never said they were planning on freeing slaves. I said Lincoln realized later that ending slavery by passing the 13th amendment was the only way. I never heard of making slavery illegal as "punishment", in fact it's quite the opposite and Lincoln wanted reconstruction to go as smoothly as possible. So I'm going to trust the Lincoln biographies I've read over what you said.

There's a difference between intentional disruption and unintentional. You'd have to be an idiot not to understand that.

Personally, I don't like seeing students in gangbanger attire at my kid's school either. But, I tolerate it. Good thing they're very few.

F-it. US schools should institute uniforms for both students and teachers like what they do in some countries.

And you know motives because? Thinking either party was unaware there would be some annoyance then you'd have to be an idiot to not understand that.

Anyway.....freedom of speech does exist. Freedom form disruption does not. Understand that. You have a particular bias here. I'm just saying things should be fair. I could see the problem if they wore shirts spewing hate toward gay people....but not what they wore....no.

And I don't like the confederate flag. But.....freedom man....taste it.

lol stupid kids trying to be edgy...

They wear girl jeans now - the saggy pant phase is gone I believe.

I used to have a teacher that would always say "Last time I check gangster don't ride the school bus", God Mr. Thorson was hilarious.

Lol people saying the Civil War wasn't about slavery or not the main cause.

"But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other though last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. "-Confederate States Vice-President Alexander H. Stephens,

Historically that was more or less the straw that broke the camel's back as they say. However, slavery became an issue because the North chose to use it against the South. There were many other issues causing the divide to start with. Had those issues and problems not existed....slavery would not have become an issue for the government. It's not like everything was going great and Lincoln decided to end slavery for humanitarian reasons. It's a much more complex problem than any one talking point.

Obviously there is more then 1 cause but to say that Slavery was not the biggest cause is pretty much historical revisionism to make the South more sympathetic to those evil northerners.

I don't think anyone (or at least many) thinks slavery is okay in 2013. I'd hope it's no one but some backward people unfortunately still exist.

You are aware they weren't arrested? So you can't play the freedom of speech card.

Your argument is getting progressively worse.

Well your argument has no merit. The Confederate flag was not about anti gay messages. And frankly, being arrested is not the issue. Shutting up ideas we don't like is.

You're the one who brought up freedom of speech. It's completely unrelated.
The confederate flag is only used by bigoted morons. It's pretty clear by the background what their intentions were.

it's a school.. kids are there to be educated not try to start controversies. imagine what an annoying educational environment it would be if all forms of expressions were freely allowed. you want to make a political point? do it on your own time and not on the schools. maybe if students spent a little less time trying to be rebels and a little more time with their face in a book they wouldn't grow up to be idiot school administrators who institute zero tolerance policies on free speech matters in the first place.

yeah!

This is true! There is no "pride" in a Confederate flag, besides racist pride. They did lose the war after all, there's nothing to be prideful of...
However, I don't think suspension is fair. They should have the right to wear what they please, even f it makes them look like ignorant tools.

It makes the public image of the school go down. That's a pretty good reason to ban it.

I don't like what the Confederate flag represents, but the students shouldn't have been suspended unless they were being disrupted in other ways.

The only times clothing should be banned should be for vulgarity, racism, sexism, and Justin Bieber.

You could argue that it was banned for one of those reasons.

You are making major assumptions here. Like I said...I don't like the flag....but that doesn't mean your interpretation is the right one.

They're still around except they added chains on the right pocket. Sometimes I wonder what they have on the end of those chains.....

I agree that they should get uniforms in schools. It would be much less disruptive, and you wouldn't have girls going to school with little on to distract the guys(at least that's kinda what it was like when I was in high school 7 years ago). Yes I think this would be a very good thing, but now a days people don't utilize good ideas they just fight about it among themselves, and nothing ever actually happens.

@DJ419 said:

@Makhaidos said:

Good. The Confederate flag is a symbol of treason, slavery and ignorance and has no more place in a school than a Swastika.

England said the same about this one.

And that might be relevant in England. Here, not so much.

What's funny is that in my experience the only folks who have used that line also tended to refer to blacks as "ni**ers". Not saying that's the case with you. Just saying that line is a giant load of bullshit.

I think to say the Confederate flag represents southern culture and the civil war wasn't really about slavery is one of the worst cases of revisionist history since some idiot decided Columbus discovered 'Murica.

I'm all for being proud of your roots, but when your roots are planted in a slave plantation maybe find a different way to express it. After all, the Swastika was a symbol of German pride and determination to recover from recession years before it became a symbol of war and holocaust.

And my experience is pretty much the exact opposite.

This is why anecdotal evidence usually doesn't hold much weight.

Fwiw, though, symbols can and do mean different things to different people.

It also happens to be a historical revisionism strongly adhered to by many in the south - the prevailing view, even. That is something to be kept in mind.

Pretty much this.. You can't even argue that it is for "states rights!", because the slave states were more than happy to enforce federally the fugitive slave law on free states..