So the government is officially shutting down, taking all bets.

So provided the government shuts down on Tuesday which is sorta of a big if when you consider they went over the deadline without shutting down in the past.... still not sure how they did that. Anyways provided they do shut down do you think they will set a record? The current longest is 21 days, does anyone think they can/will beat it?

Seems to me that they can't get anything done so they will take their time, and almost beat the record, but fail at the last minute just like everything else congress does.

113th congress needs to by permantly shut down..I'm sorry, Travis.

"It was my Congress..I'll do it"

The House seems pretty dead set on making sure a delay/repeal of the ACA is included. Political suicide again seeing as they're going to take the blame for it. HoolaHoopMan

Conservatives will blame Obama and liberals will blame republicans.

and the cycle continues. 

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]The House seems pretty dead set on making sure a delay/repeal of the ACA is included. Political suicide again seeing as they're going to take the blame for it. Jebus213

Conservatives will blame Obama and liberals will blame republicans.

and the cycle continues. 

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]The House seems pretty dead set on making sure a delay/repeal of the ACA is included. Political suicide again seeing as they're going to take the blame for it. Jebus213

Conservatives will blame Obama and liberals will blame republicans.

and the cycle continues. 

Well, I mean let's not accept that a piece of legislation that we're opposed to was passed while the other party controlled the House, just like the other party accepts all the pieces of legislation that were passed when they didn't have control, no, that woul make too much sense!  No, let's shut down the government because we're still trying to fight a legislative battle that we lost over two years ago.

Frankly, I think Republicans are worried that if ACA actually goes into effect too many people will like it and they'll lose one of their biggest talking points.

god i hope not. Otherwise im gona have to sell a bunch of crap to pay my bills. hopefully they can come up with something

All the politicians went home and shut up, shutting down the government....and then peace broke out

113th congress needs to by permantly shut down..I'm sorry, Travis.

"It was my Congress..I'll do it"

Jimn_tonic

:lol:

good stuff

I really do wish that an uprising against both repub and democrats took place.

not to make what is supposed to be a light thread too cynical, but congress still gets paid in the case of a shutdown despite the fact the Senate unanimously supported an act that would prevent such a thing in the event of a shutdown. Boehner never brought the bill to vote in the House.

Frankly, I think Republicans are worried that if ACA actually goes into effect too many people will like it and they'll lose one of their biggest talking points.

theone86

Good, they are all bastards there anyway. It's like they have been shut down for 12 years anyway.

Can anyone explain the Government shutdown in general, I don't get this exactly.Ackad

This link actually explains a few things.

Notice how the government has come *this close* to shutting down almost every year the Republicans have been holding it? And how the media always goes into hysterics about it the worst thing ever?

It's a goddamn political game, nothing more. The government won't shut down. They just use the hysteria about it to pressure the masses into demanding (or accepting) rash, stupid decisions to avoid the "dire" consequences of a shutdown.

Notice how the government has come *this close* to shutting down almost every year the Republicans have been holding it? And how the media always goes into hysterics about it the worst thing ever?

It's a goddamn political game, nothing more. The government won't shut down. They just use the hysteria about it to pressure the masses into demanding (or accepting) rash, stupid decisions to avoid the "dire" consequences of a shutdown.

Makhaidos

I dunno, the article I read seemed fairly convincing.  Apparently after they voted on this bill the House closed session and went on a recess, so basically the Senate has to accept the House version as is or wait to draft their own version, which won't make it to committee until after the shutdown begins.  Furthermore, most of the things that get funding cut or delayed are things the Republicans have been rallying against anyways-EPA, conservation programs, social welfare proograms that aren't under the purview of medicaid and food stamps.  Basically, this is them saying give in to all our demands on all of those issues or gut the ACA.

Also, in that link that Serraph posted, I find it highly ironic that the ACA would be almost completely unaffected by a government shutdown.  This clearly isn't an issue of funding Obamacare itself.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

[QUOTE="Ackad"]Can anyone explain the Government shutdown in general, I don't get this exactly.Ackad

This link actually explains a few things.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bennyjohnson/ferris-bueller-explains-the-government-shutdown

If we beat the record and go longer than 21 days, it's likely that we will also default due to the debt ceiling.

 

I'd like to think that we can stop acting like children long enough to prevent default. Although I'm becoming less confident in that by the day, I still think the risk of reaching that point is relatively unlikely - Surely even the nuts know that defaulting would be a bad decision - right?mattbbpl

The last time there was a prolonged argument about the debt ceiling our credit rating was downgraded, Republicans proceeded to blame it on Obama.  I think at this point they really could care less about the negative effects.  If a deal gets done they criticize President Obama for giving them a bad deal, if no deal gets done and we default they criticize President Obama for defaulting.  I think in their minds they'll just ride that to electoral victory and then attempt to undo the damage once they're in office.

If we beat the record and go longer than 21 days, it's likely that we will also default due to the debt ceiling.

I'd like to think that we can stop acting like children long enough to prevent default. Although I'm becoming less confident in that by the day, I still think the risk of reaching that point is relatively unlikely - Surely even the nuts know that defaulting would be a bad decision - right?mattbbpl

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]If we beat the record and go longer than 21 days, it's likely that we will also default due to the debt ceiling.

 

I'd like to think that we can stop acting like children long enough to prevent default. Although I'm becoming less confident in that by the day, I still think the risk of reaching that point is relatively unlikely - Surely even the nuts know that defaulting would be a bad decision - right?theone86

The last time there was a prolonged argument about the debt ceiling our credit rating was downgraded, Republicans proceeded to blame it on Obama.  I think at this point they really could care less about the negative effects.  If a deal gets done they criticize President Obama for giving them a bad deal, if no deal gets done and we default they criticize President Obama for defaulting.  I think in their minds they'll just ride that to electoral victory and then attempt to undo the damage once they're in office.

Obama never...ever has to run for an elected office again.  EveryOne in congress will always have to run for re-election.  Game-over...Obama wins no matter what. Simple stuff!

The Republican party is simply in shambles.

How can they allow a few nutjobs to hold the party hostage and with no remorse hurt the American people?

Disgracefull

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]If we beat the record and go longer than 21 days, it's likely that we will also default due to the debt ceiling.

I'd like to think that we can stop acting like children long enough to prevent default. Although I'm becoming less confident in that by the day, I still think the risk of reaching that point is relatively unlikely - Surely even the nuts know that defaulting would be a bad decision - right?Randolph

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]If we beat the record and go longer than 21 days, it's likely that we will also default due to the debt ceiling.

 

I'd like to think that we can stop acting like children long enough to prevent default. Although I'm becoming less confident in that by the day, I still think the risk of reaching that point is relatively unlikely - Surely even the nuts know that defaulting would be a bad decision - right?mattbbpl

The last time there was a prolonged argument about the debt ceiling our credit rating was downgraded, Republicans proceeded to blame it on Obama.  I think at this point they really could care less about the negative effects.  If a deal gets done they criticize President Obama for giving them a bad deal, if no deal gets done and we default they criticize President Obama for defaulting.  I think in their minds they'll just ride that to electoral victory and then attempt to undo the damage once they're in office.

Perhaps they really don't care about the real impact, but wouldn't they at least care about the political impact by virtue of self-preservation instinct?

There are a few things to consider:

1) Harping on Obamacare is still a successful rhetorical technique that generates negative attitudes towards Democrats among plenty of moderate and moderate-liberal voters.

2) Republicans are basically winning their electoral battles right now based on the Tea Party line.  TPers may be a minority, but they're a vocal and active minority that is basically saving the party from some pretty large defeats.

3) Tea Party-aligned congressmen are pushing moderate Republicans do do some of these things, such as include the provision for defunding ACA in the spending bill.  People like Boehner may be content to coddle the Tea Party and collect their votes, but people like Cantor and a lot of the newer Tea Party congressmen are forcing them to be more extreme.  For them it's go along with the [Tea] Party or get railroaded in a primary.

4) Plenty of these Tea Party congressmen don't care if they lose in elections.  If they do then they go to Fox News or write a book and make a shitton of money selling their ideology to conservative voters.  Beter yet, someone else just picks up the baton since most of their funding isn't based on personal recognition and fundraising but rather large contributions from wealthy donors, which brings me to

5) Plenty of these Republican congressmen are doing exactly what I said before, working to strip funding away from programs like the national parks program, national museums, the EPA, and other programs they see as part of the "big government culture."  Not only does a government shutdown align with them ideologically, but it aligns with the interests of their main backers.  Better yet, instead of going directly to the voters and saying "we want to defund the national parks," they can just make this entire debacle over Obamacare, even though the funding bill barely effects it.

6) There's no incumbent running in 2016, which means it will be easier to win a presidential election than the last couple of times out.  Sure, the opponent might still be tough, but I think they're betting on the Democratic candidate not having as unifying a presence as President Obama did in his first election.

7) They haven't lost control of the House and there have been some pretty tight Senate races.  They may believe (perhaps rightly) that if they just stick to their current strategy of making moderate and liberal swing voters sick of the Democrats and conservatives absolutely incensed at them that they can have some degree of success in the next elections.  Maybe that just means keeping the status quo, maybe that means keeping control of the House and picking up a small majoity in the Senate, but either way nothing gets done if they don't want it to.  If that has adverse effects on the country then so be it, it's just one more talking point they can use against Democrats in 2016.

It will probably be shut down for a few days before they come to some kind of agreement delaying something or another until a future date.  Every single person in congress with the exception of maybe 2 (Justin Amash and Thomas Massie) want to take away your economic and social freedoms regardless of party.  What you see in congress is nothing more than squabbling among special interests.  

I doubt it will actually happen, or if it does that it will be for very long.  It's a lot of political theater and both sides are playing chicken with it as usual.  Though it could blow up in their faces this time, who knows.

"You play chicken long enough, you fry."

How does a company shutdown and continue to pay the employeesplaymynutz

More debt!

[QUOTE="playmynutz"]How does a company shutdown and continue to pay the employeesTHE_DRUGGIE

More debt!

I really do wish that an uprising against both repub and democrats took place.

WilliamRLBaker

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]The House seems pretty dead set on making sure a delay/repeal of the ACA is included. Political suicide again seeing as they're going to take the blame for it. HoolaHoopMan

Conservatives will blame Obama and liberals will blame republicans.

and the cycle continues. 

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

I really do wish that an uprising against both repub and democrats took place.

ionusX

How does a company shutdown and continue to pay the employeesplaymynutz

If anything, it lets one party claim the other forced troops to work without pay because they won't compromise on their bills. Which will be something they will be sure to bring up in the next election.

Well considering a large portion of the public is clueless about the ACA and many don't want/need it there will be a great many people that will support the republicans. If the public were better educated on the ACA then republicans might be in trouble for risking a gov't shutdown to get rid of it. But because people have no clue what it actually does I don't think this will kill republican chances, if anything it might bolster their support in swing areas. ferrari2001

You bring up a good point, no one knows what is in the bill and that can be squarely blamed on the stupidity of the left who wanted the bill passed without wanting the bill read (Nancy Pelosie, former Speaker of the House). Talk about uncompromising. Anyway, once the public knew what was in the bill could have caused a big backlash that the Democrats were not wanting and were trying to keep the status quo themselves.

The simple fact is, both parties are guilty of not compromising as of late and both are to blame for the quagmire we are in, it just isn't one party. The left wants to play the blame game and try to play the victim card just as much as the right if not moreso. Why doesn't the stupid Democrats want to partake in a program that they wanted so bad? Why are they so afraid of delaying it another year as well? 

People say this every year but it never happens. They dont have the balls to shut it down. Capitan_Kid

Well considering a large portion of the public is clueless about the ACA and many don't want/need it there will be a great many people that will support the republicans. If the public were better educated on the ACA then republicans might be in trouble for risking a gov't shutdown to get rid of it. But because people have no clue what it actually does I don't think this will kill republican chances, if anything it might bolster their support in swing areas. ferrari2001

I'm not going to debate whether or not either side is lying about the ACA or whether or not the public is even educated on what it actually entails.  All I'm saying is that the public opinion will swing in the democrats favor if a shut down is caused because of this.  It may help to keep certain House members solidify their district but the overall image of the Reps will be tarnished again.  I'm not in agreement that swing areas will somehow sway towards the Rep side with this action.

Its a dumb move on the Reps part and if they are trying to recover their party image, this move is in the wrong direction.  

I think they delay it another couple weeks to set up another vote right AFTER Election Day.

I feel that Congress will make a short term deal to keep the government running.Ravenous_Joker

[QUOTE="Ravenous_Joker"]I feel that Congress will make a short term deal to keep the government running.comp_atkins

Yea, in all honesty... they want to wait until AFTER Election Day to pass a bill so they don't get voted out of their Gerrymandered districts.

lol - silly House Republicans, They are so easy to read.

They'll delay it another few weeks so nobody has to make a vote and risk angering their constituents.