should the United States end the monopoly of public schools?

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#1 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -

the government drives out competition by funding all these state schools and doesn't hold teachers to the high standards they should be held to. voucher systems and charter schools don't seem to be making our educational system any better. we're like 17th or so (not number 1) in the world in education.

are teachers' unions to blame?

should the k-12 education system be treated like a business that runs for profit? some think so.

others think this will only cause private funders to go to privileged and rich white neighborhoods leaving out the poor and minorities.

if we're all being taught to learn the same things and do well on the same tests, how the hell can we differentiate between our students?

competition brings about innovation and diversity in our workforce.

 

should we end the government controlled monopoly on public education in the United States?

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#2 Posted by coolbeans90 (21305 posts) -

i see potential for this thread

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#3 Posted by sonicare (55080 posts) -

There isnt a monopoly.  I believe there are plenty of private and parochial schools out there.  The US education system is very variable.  The only real place it fails is in the inner city and that tends to drag down the average.  Most suburban schools put out students that do quite well by international standards.  The problem is with how inner city schools are funded and run.  Not enough money and resources, bad upper level management, and lack of accountability.  Not sure of the best solution.

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#4 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -
given the opportunity, i think local communities would do better fending for themselves rather than waiting on money handed down to them from the government through taxpayers. we're all paying in to this corrupt system and not seeing any results. why are foreigners coming over here and kicking our asses?
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#5 Posted by sonicare (55080 posts) -
given the opportunity, i think local communities would do better fending for themselves rather than waiting on money handed down to them from the government through taxpayers. we're all paying in to this corrupt system and not seeing any results. why are foreigners coming over here and kicking our asses?4myAmuzumament
A lot of schools are funded by property taxes which is basically a local tax. It really depends on the area.
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#6 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -

There isnt a monopoly.  I believe there are plenty of private and parochial schools out there.  The US education system is very variable.  The only real place it fails is in the inner city and that tends to drag down the average.  Most suburban schools put out students that do quite well by international standards.  The problem is with how inner city schools are funded and run.  Not enough money and resources, bad upper level management, and lack of accountability.  Not sure of the best solution.

sonicare
it is a monopoly though, certain disadvantaged regions can't afford those ridiculous private schools so their students are forced into the cookie-cutter system we see today. i put a lot of the blame on george w bush with his no child left behind crap. ever since that was enacted, i felt the kids around me getting dumber and dumber.
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#7 Posted by mattbbpl (13714 posts) -

There isnt a monopoly.  I believe there are plenty of private and parochial schools out there.  The US education system is very variable.  The only real place it fails is in the inner city and that tends to drag down the average.  Most suburban schools put out students that do quite well by international standards.  The problem is with how inner city schools are funded and run.  Not enough money and resources, bad upper level management, and lack of accountability.  Not sure of the best solution.

sonicare
While I think that our schools could be doing better, there's also the matter of our student body's structure to consider. In many countries poor performing students are weeded out of the higher education track at a higher young age and sent through a vocational track, thereby bringing up their education ranking. Whether or not this is a good idea can be debated, but regardless it's something to consider when comparing school performance. I would definitely not recommend following the example simply as a means to rise in an otherwise meaningless rank.
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#8 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -
teachers' unions are also a sham. if you're a sucky teacher, it doesn't matter how many years you spent getting your degree, you're a shtty teacher. go get a regular joe-blow job.
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#9 Posted by osirisx3 (2113 posts) -

that is insane pretty much every nation from rich to poor have pubkic schooling. you will be taking the world back to the stone age. so many low income familys will get no education hurting everyone.

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#10 Posted by cain006 (8625 posts) -

others think this will only cause private funders to go to privileged and rich white neighborhoods leaving out the poor and minorities.

4myAmuzumament

This basically already happens. If you live in the inner city, you won't get as good of an education of somebody who lives in the rich suburban area.

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#11 Posted by Perfect_Blue (28823 posts) -

Sure if you want to lag even farther behind in global rankings.

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#12 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -
i honestly think teaching kids the benefits of working and learning life skills while they are young would help us out a lot. go back to basics. we've lost our foundation.
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#13 Posted by chessmaster1989 (30204 posts) -
I wonder why the government has a monopoly on public schools....
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#14 Posted by k2theswiss (16599 posts) -

high standards was killed by no child left behind bill...

Public schools or not shouldn't effect the results of our schools. Find a better solution

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#15 Posted by tenaka2 (17048 posts) -

the government drives out competition by funding all these state schools and doesn't hold teachers to the high standards they should be held to. voucher systems and charter schools don't seem to be making our educational system any better. we're like 17th or so (not number 1) in the world in education.

are teachers' unions to blame?

should the k-12 education system be treated like a business that runs for profit? some think so.

others think this will only cause private funders to go to privileged and rich white neighborhoods leaving out the poor and minorities.

if we're all being taught to learn the same things and do well on the same tests, how the hell can we differentiate between our students?

competition brings about innovation and diversity in our workforce.

 

should we end the government controlled monopoly on public education in the United States?

4myAmuzumament

No, if that happened the next generation of americans would believe that snakes can talk and the earth is 6000 years old.

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#16 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

There isnt a monopoly.  I believe there are plenty of private and parochial schools out there.  The US education system is very variable.  The only real place it fails is in the inner city and that tends to drag down the average.  Most suburban schools put out students that do quite well by international standards.  The problem is with how inner city schools are funded and run.  Not enough money and resources, bad upper level management, and lack of accountability.  Not sure of the best solution.

4myAmuzumament

it is a monopoly though, certain disadvantaged regions can't afford those ridiculous private schools so their students are forced into the cookie-cutter system we see today. i put a lot of the blame on george w bush with his no child left behind crap. ever since that was enacted, i felt the kids around me getting dumber and dumber.

So your solution is to do away with public schools leaving only the private schools?

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#17 Posted by Barbariser (6785 posts) -

Yes let's leave a good with an extremely high social benefit and relatively small private benefit to the private sector. :roll:

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#18 Posted by Toph_Girl250 (48978 posts) -

high standards was killed by no child left behind bill...

Public schools or not shouldn't effect the results of our schools. Find a better solution

k2theswiss
The No Child Left Behind Act is a crock.
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#19 Posted by leviathan91 (7763 posts) -

Our education system is diverse but I believe there should be more competition. In other words, I think parents should be allowed to choose what school (public or private) their children should go to regardless of where they live. That and get rid of zero tolerance policies (or reform them), get rid of No Child Left Behind, and include more accountability in our schools.

Public schooling shouldn't disappear but there are certain things we can do to improve it by giving more choices to the parents.

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#20 Posted by Diablo-B (4063 posts) -

While we are at it why not end the monopoly of police, firefighters, and army? Oh wait, cause that would be dumb. Never mind. If you privatize schools the poor/middle-class would struggle more.

The bigger problem with our schools is culture. Look at all the countries that are top 5 in education. They value education. Familes push their kinds to learn. Being smart is incouraged and leads to popularity. And teachers are valued and put on the same professional level as Doctors and lawyers. In the US we make fun of the smart kids, more so boys then girls. Parents just wash their hands clean of the process and expect schools to do all the work. And teachers are constantly bashed and looked down on. In denmark teaching is one of the most desirable positions, and its so competitve that only the top 10% collegiate GPAs can get hired. So the smartest people in the country become teachers. Our best and brightest aren't going into teaching, thus lowering the quality of our teachers.

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#21 Posted by LJS9502_basic (158877 posts) -
Monopoly....seriously?
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#22 Posted by GIJames248 (2176 posts) -

Yes, if only for moral grounds. I would settle a voucher system though (if private schools and homeschools could receive the vouchers), but mandatory education and the taxes to fund it are idiotic.

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#23 Posted by tenaka2 (17048 posts) -

Yes, if only for moral grounds. I would settle a voucher system though (if private schools and homeschools could receive the vouchers), but mandatory education and the taxes to fund it are idiotic.

GIJames248

Mandatory education is idiotic?

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#24 Posted by wis3boi (32507 posts) -

[QUOTE="k2theswiss"]

high standards was killed by no child left behind bill...

Public schools or not shouldn't effect the results of our schools. Find a better solution

Toph_Girl250

The No Child Left Behind Act is a crock.

Mhm.  Can't pass the tests? Lower the passing scores!

 

You get an A! You get an A, too! Everybody gets an A and everyone gets dumber!

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#25 Posted by GIJames248 (2176 posts) -

[QUOTE="GIJames248"]

Yes, if only for moral grounds. I would settle a voucher system though (if private schools and homeschools could receive the vouchers), but mandatory education and the taxes to fund it are idiotic.

tenaka2

Mandatory education is idiotic?

From a moral grounds, yes. If someone doesn't want to go to school, what legitimate authority does society have to make them? Even worse is the current system where not only does the government make everyone get an education, but the government uses taxes to direct them into only one system of education. America doesn't like free spirits or individual free agency enough to probably ever get rid of mandatory education, but a voucher system is necessary for any semblance of respect for the individual.

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#27 Posted by NEWMAHAY (3824 posts) -
[QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"]given the opportunity, i think local communities would do better fending for themselves rather than waiting on money handed down to them from the government through taxpayers. we're all paying in to this corrupt system and not seeing any results. why are foreigners coming over here and kicking our asses?sonicare
A lot of schools are funded by property taxes which is basically a local tax. It really depends on the area.

this
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#28 Posted by NEWMAHAY (3824 posts) -
I wonder why the government has a monopoly on public schools....chessmaster1989
all public schools are government operated or else they wouldn't be public school lol
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#29 Posted by coolbeans90 (21305 posts) -

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]I wonder why the government has a monopoly on public schools....NEWMAHAY
all public schools are government operated or else they wouldn't be public school lol

but

that was the joke

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#30 Posted by Nuck81 (6582 posts) -
As one of the few here that is a certified teacher working in a Public school, the problem really is teacher accountability. Teacher unions aren't going away, but the movement for tenure reform is gaining momentum from the younger generation of teachers.
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#31 Posted by RushKing (1785 posts) -

I think the public schools need to be reformed and incorporate democratic principles.

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#32 Posted by Fightingfan (38011 posts) -
From my understanding public schooling is fine -- it's just when you move into a rural area, or the hood does the quality drop.
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#33 Posted by UnknownSniper65 (9237 posts) -

I worked part time in a public school and interacted with the school staff on a regular basis. It really didn't fill me with much confidence in the system. I got the feeling that the school system was more like an assembly line. Honestly didn't make me want to send any children I have in the future to a public school.

 

So yes.

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#35 Posted by redstorm72 (4646 posts) -

How would anybody besides rich people be able to send their kids to school then? Private schools are ridiculously expensive. Most people aren't made of money you know. I guess poor kids can work in the mines or something.

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#36 Posted by collegeboy64 (1893 posts) -
While public vs private is part of the issue, the real issue is local control vs remote (i.e. federal or state) control. Sorry, but I have to pull the old man trick here (age 48) When I was a kid all schools were controlled by the local school district. Property taxes were collected locally and spent by the local district as they saw fit. The community was in charge of its own schools. Some did well and some did not. In the mid 80s, several of the "urban" districts sued in federal court because the more rural districts, with more taxes and fewer students, had more $ per student to spend. And, of course, that wasn't "fair". Well, the federal judge agreed and all property taxes are now collected up by the state, then redistributed "fairly" to the districts. They do allow the local districts to impose additional property taxes (but not too much so they don't make things "unfair" again), that the district gets to spend locally. Guess what. The same districts that were strong and produced well educated people still do so, and the districts that sued are still crap. Its all about how much the local community cares. I live in a town with some of the highest property taxes in the state. We chose to raise our own taxes to make up for the taxes being stolen from us and given to other districts. Our schools are among the top 3 in the state. Add to all this the fact that we allow so much federal control and meddling in our schools, and you have the nightmare that is our current, urban, public school system.
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#37 Posted by THE_DRUGGIE (25057 posts) -

'Cuz private schools can't be public schools since public schools are public.

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#38 Posted by MakeMeaSammitch (4889 posts) -

Hi lai. Like usual, everything you said is stupid.

They don't have a monopoly. Private schools are allowed to compete. 

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#39 Posted by Barbariser (6785 posts) -

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="GIJames248"]

Yes, if only for moral grounds. I would settle a voucher system though (if private schools and homeschools could receive the vouchers), but mandatory education and the taxes to fund it are idiotic.

GIJames248

Mandatory education is idiotic?

From a moral grounds, yes. If someone doesn't want to go to school, what legitimate authority does society have to make them? Even worse is the current system where not only does the government make everyone get an education, but the government uses taxes to direct them into only one system of education. America doesn't like free spirits or individual free agency enough to probably ever get rid of mandatory education, but a voucher system is necessary for any semblance of respect for the individual.

Governments have the "legitimate authority" to tax you and legislate you into getting an education the same way that they have the "legitimate authority" to force you to respect other peoples' human and civil rights by not murdering, raping, maiming, assaulting, stealing from or kidnapping them. They also have the legitimate authority to take your money to ensure that they'll be able to do enforce all of that stuff. This is because "legitimate authority" in the real world simply means "people mostly agree that this government has a right to rule" and not whatever the hell it means in the libertarian fantasyland you are trying to live in.

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#40 Posted by junglist101 (5479 posts) -

The state of education in this country has nothing to do with the schools and everything to do with the families from which the students come.  Let's work on better families, dad's who stick around, parents who don't have kids at 17, and parents who emphasize to their children how important their education is and take an active interest in said education.

Good families = good kids = good schools. 

But unfortunately we live in a society filled with people and politicians who want to focus on symptoms instead of the disease for fear of offending any particular group of people.

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#41 Posted by tenaka2 (17048 posts) -

The state of education in this country has nothing to do with the schools and everything to do with the families from which the students come.  Let's work on better families, dad's who stick around, parents who don't have kids at 17, and parents who emphasize to their children how important their education is and take an active interest in said education.

Good families = good kids = good schools. 

But unfortunately we live in a society filled with people and politicians who want to focus on symptoms instead of the disease for fear of offending any particular group of people.

junglist101

I agree with you, the lesser elements of society should be neutered.

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#42 Posted by Laihendi (5871 posts) -

The premise used to justify public education is irrational and contradictory. The government says that you cannot afford to educate your children, so it creates a universal socialized education system - paid for with your taxes. The only money/wealth that a government has at its disposal is that of the people that it governs. The fact that the government is able to create such an enormous education system with the tax revenues it collects from us is proof that we do not need the government to socialize education, because we could already afford it individually anyways.

The government does have a monopoly on grade school education, and I am writing a book about this so I know what I am talking about. 90% of grade school students attend public schools. The government is running 90% of the education industry at the K-12 level. That is a monopoly, and a dangerous one. The government is instilling socialist ideas with classes such as sociology and "social studies".

When I was in grade school I was forced to perform community service in order to graduate. That was not an educational experience at all - it was simply degrading. The purpose was to train me to believe that it was my duty to act against my self interest to help "the community". I still hate them for making me do that. I am not a garbage boy. I am a man. It is not my place to pick up the filth of others, but they wanted me to believe that it was. They wanted me to believe that it was a high purpose to throw away your life fixing the mistakes of others so that they could live without accepting the consequences of their actions. They could keep living without those consequences - because I would have to suffer the consequences for them.

They made me do it, they made me keep a record of it. They made my parents sign it. They threatened to fail me if I didn't do it. I will never perform community service again. It is not the place of man to serve. I am not an animal. I am not a beast of burden. I am a man, and I live by the strength of my mind, and for my own sake. No one has a right to my service. The government built that school, the government made me attend it. The government made me perform community service. The government made me live as a slave, and told me that it was a good thing to do. The government should not be allowed to do that - it is wrong.

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#43 Posted by tenaka2 (17048 posts) -

I'm greedy

Laihendi

 

We know.

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#44 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -
Monopoly....seriously?LJS9502_basic
yes. government owns all public schools. monopoly, duh. can't you comprehend what you read? geeze.
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#45 Posted by MakeMeaSammitch (4889 posts) -

lol lai refusing to do community service? 

You always call the poor lazy, but you have never worked and refuse to do community service yourself.

You're lazy yourself.