Selfishness contra altruism, the individual against the collective

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Laihendi

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#1 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

Everyday the concept of selfishness is slandered, vilified, and blamed for almost every despicable thing someone does. Thieves, rapists, and murderers are branded as being selfish, and the concept of selfishness is tainted due to guilt by falsely assumed association. Selfishness has absolutely nothing to do with any of those crimes. Selfishness is the rational pursuit of one's self-interest. Theft, rape, and murder do nothing to favor one's self-interest. Each act is universally recognized as a crime, and any person who commits such a crime must live the rest of his life in fear of retribution. Condemning yourself to fear and punishment is not an act of selfishness.

Selfishness is what makes self-preservation desirable, and therefore viable. Life has no inherent meaning to one who is not selfish. Selfishness represents meaning and life, whereas altruism (the much vaunted alternative to selfishness) can only represent inherent meaninglessness and therefore death. The pervasive influence of altruism and the smear campaign against selfishness that has been carried out by its practicioners has resulted in a world of people who believe that their life is only meaningful to the extent that they sacrifice it to others.

Altruists accuse any unabashedly selfish man of sociopathy. Valuing one's life has nothing to do with sociopathy. Valuing one's life is not a mental disorder. Valuing one's life is not a crime. This false accusation is only more despicable for the fact that it keeps the blithering masses too distracted to ever question the one making the accusations. It is the sociopaths who preach altruism, and the sheep who bleat in agreement. It is the sociopaths who manipulate the masses into believing that their lives are inherently meaningless, and that they can only justify their existence by sacrificing themselves to some "higher" purpose, undoubtedly one that the manipulator benefits from.

The consensus that altruism is good represents a near unanimous moral degeneracy, and the fact that anyone who speaks against this is heckled and ridiculed into submission demonstrates a disgusting anti-intellectualism that is only made more disgusting by the fact that those hecklers are hailed by each others as progressive thinkers. They are not progressive, and they do not think. They are anathema to progressiveness. They represent the status quo, the consensus, and yet their utter divorce from reason allows them to believe the opposite.

Everyday I see sheep who allow themselves to be brainwashed by CNN and MSNBC and then have the audacity to ridicule someone for watching FOX, as if their own sources of propaganda are any better. They're all corporations working together with the government to control you. The duumvirate of "progressive" propaganda spent months hailing Obama's first 100 days by comparing it to FDR's, as if that is something to emulate. FDR undermined the constitution and the concepts of checks and balances and individual rights, and yet everyone acts like he was a hero. All the grade school textbooks (paid for by the government) say he was a hero so the masses think that surely it must be true. These same masses who advocate state-controlled education and mandatory funding of it by tax-payers.

The state has a monopoly on education and it uses that to brainwash the masses into believing whatever it wants them to believe, and people act like that's a good thing. The anti-intellectualism and moral degeneracy is so deep and widespread that the masses want to be brainwashed and indoctrinated into the cult of altruism, and they want the same forced on everyone else as well. They fear and hate anyone who is capable of and willing to dissent against their dogmatic and authoritarian assertions. And yet they condemn anyone who is against this state monopoly on education as being anti-education. Their hypocrisy is astounding.

The state monpoly on education has resulted in generations of hopeless citizens who believe authoritarian monsters like Caesar, Napoleon, and FDR are heroes while advocates of human rights like Ayn Rand or Ron Paul are nutcases on the fringe, as if being on the fringe in an anti-intellectual morally degenerate society is a bad thing. And yet we're all forced to fund these schools of altruist indoctrination whether we intend to attend them or not. And then the blithering masses heckle and ridicule anyone who suggests this is a bad thing, that perhaps we should not be forced by law into funding a government-controlled monopoly on education.

The fact that anyone who wants to attend a private school free of the government's pro-collectivism pro-altruism agenda has to pay their own tuition in addition to taxes for the schools they aren't even attending is an outrage. Only the richest or those who are strong-minded enough to recognize the sham the government calls education for what it is have any hope of rising above the squalor that constitutes society. And yet sheep-herders like Obama, Reid, and Pelosi want to do away with even that by redistributing wealth around as they see fit, because they realize that anyone wealthy enough to not be dependent on their corrupt government is a threat to their corrupt government.

Democracy has been a complete failure, and yet according to consensus it has been a stunning success. Well of course the consensus would say that, as if the consensus inherently has any credibility, because democracy represents the rule of consensus. Democracy has been failing for two and a half thousand years, and yet the consensus says it is good, and the masses assume the consensus is correct because they are the consensus. The Athenians lost the Peloponessian War because of the voters were all idiotically given an equal voice in the manner of how the war should be carried out, and conniving politicians turned matters of the state into a circus, and yet you'll never learn about that in the public schools because it contradicts their anti-intellectual anti-individualism agenda.

The government doesn't want individuals to exist, because individuals think for themselves, individuals are immune to government propaganda, and individuals won't vote for who/what the government tells them to. But it is the fact individualism is such a rarity and so easily extinguished by the state that democracy can never be anything but a failure. But you never hear about the failure of democracy in corrupt political machines like FOX, MSNBC, or CNN, or in government media organizations like NPR or BBC. They all act like mob rule is some beautiful thing, while ignoring the fact that every democratic regime America sets up ends up being an utter failure.

The fact that the government forces the entire country to fund their media propganda machines (NPR, BBC, etc) and that people act like that is a good thing is a complete disgrace. When was the last time NPR took a stand aganst the blatant human rights violations being commited by the US government? They have no journalistic integrity, and yet for the sake of altruism we must all fund it, because supposedely we must all surrender our wealth to the government to do with as it sees fit, because supposedely that is the equivalent of supporting some higher purpose that transcends the individual.

Nothing transcends the individual. The idea that there is some greater purpose for individuals to sacrifice themselves to, and the fact that we are all forced into doing that is an outrage. Every atrocity in the history of humanity has been the result of the idea that the individual is an animal to be sacrificed. The idea that they should be happy to sacrifice themselves for the sake of altruism, because altruism forced on others inevitably means one sacrificing himself for whatever cause some malicious villain wants to promote.

Selfishness is good, and the vilification of it by promoters of altruism has resulted in the anti-intellectual morally degenerate society we live in today.

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dave123321

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#2 dave123321
Member since 2003 • 35553 Posts
hi lai
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LJS9502_basic

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#3 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178838 Posts
Selfishness is not a positive attribute. We know you are selfish...don't think we'll justify it for you though. Least I hope not.
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dave123321

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#4 dave123321
Member since 2003 • 35553 Posts
Tragedy of the commons
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comp_atkins

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#5 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38674 Posts
lol... you gotta be kidding me...
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XaosII

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#6 XaosII
Member since 2003 • 16705 Posts

Here's half your tin-foil hat argument destroyed.

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chrisrooR

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#7 chrisrooR
Member since 2007 • 9027 Posts
You're the biggest moron on OT. That is, if you aren't trolling. Please, keep trying to justify being a douchebag. Let us all know how that works out for you.
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Allicrombie

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#8 Allicrombie
Member since 2005 • 26223 Posts
So if everyone in the world was more selfish, this would be a kinder, gentler world to live in? I'm sorry, that makes no sense.
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lloveLamp

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#9 lloveLamp
Member since 2009 • 2891 Posts
without selfishness we wouldn't have playstation, computers, pokemon cards, mcdonalds or anything else we love. so yes, selfishness is a virtue in my opinion. most people confuse selfishness with greed though. greed is another beast alltogether.
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Minishdriveby

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#10 Minishdriveby
Member since 2006 • 10519 Posts
So if everyone in the world was more selfish, this would be a kinder, gentler world to live in? I'm sorry, that makes no sense. Allicrombie
It kinda brings up the debate of Selfless Selfishness.
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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#11 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

tl;dr

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Kevlar101

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#12 Kevlar101
Member since 2011 • 6316 Posts

tl;dr

Aljosa23
This. I read like the first 13 words then I just gave up.
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dave123321

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#13 dave123321
Member since 2003 • 35553 Posts
[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

tl;dr

Kevlar101
This. I read like the first 13 words then I just gave up.

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chessmaster1989

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#14 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

didnt-read-lol.jpg.

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#15 hoola
Member since 2004 • 6422 Posts

Sounds like a Copy/Paste. The ideas of selfishness and altruism are completely pointless if there is a general lack of respect for property rights. Once a society values property rights (that is when someone owns something nobody can take it away from them) THEN selfishness and altrusim can be discussed. Just look at the people on this board who want to steal/tax other people's money for their own uses. They think they are being altruistic, but the truth is they have a selfish behavior with altruistic intent. That makes both of the ideas completely useless. What is the point in even discussing them when real life gets in the way and makes both of them obsolete?

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konvikt_17

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#16 konvikt_17
Member since 2008 • 22378 Posts

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_piLKejF_rYnNzTq5Ddy.

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megam

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#17 megam
Member since 2003 • 457 Posts
I, too, have read Ayn Rand.
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#18 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts
Seriously, go fvck yourself.
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Laihendi

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#19 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

Selfishness is not a positive attribute. We know you are selfish...don't think we'll justify it for you though. Least I hope not.LJS9502_basic
How is it that concern for your own well-being is not a positive attribute? How is a conscious individual to sustain his own life if he is not concerned with his own life? Making a claim such as selfishness being a bad thing is meaningless if you can't back it up with any reasoning.

Hi Dave.

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Laihendi

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#20 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

Sounds like a Copy/Paste. The ideas of selfishness and altruism are completely pointless if there is a general lack of respect for property rights. Once a society values property rights (that is when someone owns something nobody can take it away from them) THEN selfishness and altrusim can be discussed. Just look at the people on this board who want to steal/tax other people's money for their own uses. They think they are being altruistic, but the truth is they have a selfish behavior with altruistic intent. That makes both of the ideas completely useless. What is the point in even discussing them when real life gets in the way and makes both of them obsolete?

hoola
I think property rights and selfishness are both inherent necessities for life as a conscious self-aware individual.
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deactivated-5e97585ea928c

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#21 deactivated-5e97585ea928c
Member since 2006 • 8521 Posts
Oh Laika.
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BossPerson

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#22 BossPerson
Member since 2011 • 9177 Posts

lol tl;dr and fvck ayn rand

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#23 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

Theft, rape, and murder do nothing to favor one's self-interest. Laihendi

Actually, they do, which is why disincentives are created.

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Dark__Link

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#24 Dark__Link
Member since 2003 • 32653 Posts

If selflessness is so bad, why do you continue to share your thoughts with us? Please selfishly keep them to yourself in the future.

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Bane_09

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#25 Bane_09
Member since 2010 • 3394 Posts

Everyday the concept of selfishness is slandered, vilified, and blamed for almost every despicable thing someone does. Thieves, rapists, and murderers are branded as being selfish, and the concept of selfishness is tainted due to guilt by falsely assumed association. Selfishness has absolutely nothing to do with any of those crimes. Selfishness is the rational pursuit of one's self-interest. Theft, rape, and murder do nothing to favor one's self-interest. Each act is universally recognized as a crime, and any person who commits such a crime must live the rest of his life in fear of retribution. Condemning yourself to fear and punishment is not an act of selfishness.

Laihendi

This is so very wrong.

All of those things favor one's self. Why do you think people commit crimes such as rape???????? Theft? How does theft not favor one's self? You claim the stigma and punishment for the crime is enough to make those not selfish acts. Those people are not once ever condemning themselves as you put, none of them think they will get caught. They obviously consider the crime to be the bigger benefit them, the fear of punishment and guilt is relatively small, especially in rapists and murders. They just don't care at all

I couldn't make it through the rest of your post because this first paragraph was full of too much bullsh*t

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#26 Bane_09
Member since 2010 • 3394 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Selfishness is not a positive attribute. We know you are selfish...don't think we'll justify it for you though. Least I hope not.Laihendi

How is it that concern for your own well-being is not a positive attribute? How is a conscious individual to sustain his own life if he is not concerned with his own life? Making a claim such as selfishness being a bad thing is meaningless if you can't back it up with any reasoning.

Hi Dave.

There's nothing wrong with being concerned with your own well being. You can take care of yourself and help others.

You seem to have this strange idea that a person is either 100% selfish or 100% selfless

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#27 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23024 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]Theft, rape, and murder do nothing to favor one's self-interest. coolbeans90

Actually, they do, which is why disincentives are created.

Exactly. Given current disincentives, it's just that those actions being in the perpetrator's best interest hinges on them not being caught (or their thinking that they might not be caught).
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Laihendi

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#28 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

Everyday the concept of selfishness is slandered, vilified, and blamed for almost every despicable thing someone does. Thieves, rapists, and murderers are branded as being selfish, and the concept of selfishness is tainted due to guilt by falsely assumed association. Selfishness has absolutely nothing to do with any of those crimes. Selfishness is the rational pursuit of one's self-interest. Theft, rape, and murder do nothing to favor one's self-interest. Each act is universally recognized as a crime, and any person who commits such a crime must live the rest of his life in fear of retribution. Condemning yourself to fear and punishment is not an act of selfishness.

Bane_09

This is so very wrong.

All of those things favor one's self. Why do you think people commit crimes such as rape???????? Theft? How does theft not favor one's self? You claim the stigma and punishment for the crime is enough to make those not selfish acts. Those people are not once ever condemning themselves as you put, none of them think they will get caught. They obviously consider the crime to be the bigger benefit them, the fear of punishment and guilt is relatively small, especially in rapists and murders. They just don't care at all

I couldn't make it through the rest of your post because this first paragraph was full of too much bullsh*t

Any person who establishes the principle that it is acceptable to steal, rape, or murder also establishes the principle that it is acceptable to be the victim of those crimes as well. No rational person believes it is okay for him to be stolen from, raped, or murdered, therefore no rational person believes that it is acceptable for him to do those things to others. These crimes are caused by bad (or inconsistently applied) moral codes, not selfishness.
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#29 SirWander
Member since 2009 • 5176 Posts

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_piLKejF_rYnNzTq5Ddy.

konvikt_17

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kuraimen

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#30 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
Ayn Rand was a dumbass and anyone advocating her view of mankind is a dumbass too
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dave123321

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#31 dave123321
Member since 2003 • 35553 Posts
Make a new thread on entitlements, lai.
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Bane_09

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#32 Bane_09
Member since 2010 • 3394 Posts

[QUOTE="Bane_09"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

Everyday the concept of selfishness is slandered, vilified, and blamed for almost every despicable thing someone does. Thieves, rapists, and murderers are branded as being selfish, and the concept of selfishness is tainted due to guilt by falsely assumed association. Selfishness has absolutely nothing to do with any of those crimes. Selfishness is the rational pursuit of one's self-interest. Theft, rape, and murder do nothing to favor one's self-interest. Each act is universally recognized as a crime, and any person who commits such a crime must live the rest of his life in fear of retribution. Condemning yourself to fear and punishment is not an act of selfishness.

Laihendi

This is so very wrong.

All of those things favor one's self. Why do you think people commit crimes such as rape???????? Theft? How does theft not favor one's self? You claim the stigma and punishment for the crime is enough to make those not selfish acts. Those people are not once ever condemning themselves as you put, none of them think they will get caught. They obviously consider the crime to be the bigger benefit them, the fear of punishment and guilt is relatively small, especially in rapists and murders. They just don't care at all

I couldn't make it through the rest of your post because this first paragraph was full of too much bullsh*t

Any person who establishes the principle that it is acceptable to steal, rape, or murder also establishes the principle that it is acceptable to be the victim of those crimes as well. No rational person believes it is okay for him to be stolen from, raped, or murdered, therefore no rational person believes that it is acceptable for him to do those things to others. These crimes are caused by bad (or inconsistently applied) moral codes, not selfishness.

You are making a huge assumption here, and that is that every person to have ever lived is an empathetic individual. They don't care that they are hurting someone else, why don't you understand that?

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osirisx3

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#33 osirisx3
Member since 2012 • 2113 Posts

is this china because thats one great wall of text?

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#34 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178838 Posts
[QUOTE="Bane_09"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

Everyday the concept of selfishness is slandered, vilified, and blamed for almost every despicable thing someone does. Thieves, rapists, and murderers are branded as being selfish, and the concept of selfishness is tainted due to guilt by falsely assumed association. Selfishness has absolutely nothing to do with any of those crimes. Selfishness is the rational pursuit of one's self-interest. Theft, rape, and murder do nothing to favor one's self-interest. Each act is universally recognized as a crime, and any person who commits such a crime must live the rest of his life in fear of retribution. Condemning yourself to fear and punishment is not an act of selfishness.

Laihendi

This is so very wrong.

All of those things favor one's self. Why do you think people commit crimes such as rape???????? Theft? How does theft not favor one's self? You claim the stigma and punishment for the crime is enough to make those not selfish acts. Those people are not once ever condemning themselves as you put, none of them think they will get caught. They obviously consider the crime to be the bigger benefit them, the fear of punishment and guilt is relatively small, especially in rapists and murders. They just don't care at all

I couldn't make it through the rest of your post because this first paragraph was full of too much bullsh*t

Any person who establishes the principle that it is acceptable to steal, rape, or murder also establishes the principle that it is acceptable to be the victim of those crimes as well. No rational person believes it is okay for him to be stolen from, raped, or murdered, therefore no rational person believes that it is acceptable for him to do those things to others. These crimes are caused by bad (or inconsistently applied) moral codes, not selfishness.

Man I need my boots..it's getting deep in here. You do know some people actually do believe they can do what they want no matter who it hurts.
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#35 Abbeten
Member since 2012 • 3140 Posts
[QUOTE="Bane_09"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

Everyday the concept of selfishness is slandered, vilified, and blamed for almost every despicable thing someone does. Thieves, rapists, and murderers are branded as being selfish, and the concept of selfishness is tainted due to guilt by falsely assumed association. Selfishness has absolutely nothing to do with any of those crimes. Selfishness is the rational pursuit of one's self-interest. Theft, rape, and murder do nothing to favor one's self-interest. Each act is universally recognized as a crime, and any person who commits such a crime must live the rest of his life in fear of retribution. Condemning yourself to fear and punishment is not an act of selfishness.

Laihendi

This is so very wrong.

All of those things favor one's self. Why do you think people commit crimes such as rape???????? Theft? How does theft not favor one's self? You claim the stigma and punishment for the crime is enough to make those not selfish acts. Those people are not once ever condemning themselves as you put, none of them think they will get caught. They obviously consider the crime to be the bigger benefit them, the fear of punishment and guilt is relatively small, especially in rapists and murders. They just don't care at all

I couldn't make it through the rest of your post because this first paragraph was full of too much bullsh*t

Any person who establishes the principle that it is acceptable to steal, rape, or murder also establishes the principle that it is acceptable to be the victim of those crimes as well. No rational person believes it is okay for him to be stolen from, raped, or murdered, therefore no rational person believes that it is acceptable for him to do those things to others. These crimes are caused by bad (or inconsistently applied) moral codes, not selfishness.

are you a robot or do you simply think that every human being is a robot
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Bane_09

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#36 Bane_09
Member since 2010 • 3394 Posts

From Billy Lee Chadd's journal, after killing a hitchhiker

"Later that night I thought about what I had done. I asked
myself why I did it. But no answer came to me. I wasn't sorry or
anything. And I admitted to myself that I enjoyed it. And I won­
dered if all murderers felt as I did."

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#37 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts
If everyone adopted that philosophy then mankind would have gone extinct long ago.
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#38 Dark__Link
Member since 2003 • 32653 Posts

is this china because thats one great wall of text?

osirisx3
I'm surprised the North Korean government hasn't convinced you the Great Wall is in NK.
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Ace6301

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#39 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
This is a good example of why I put Ayn Rand on my list of annoying nerd fandoms.
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#40 Cloud_Insurance
Member since 2008 • 3279 Posts

impossible to take you seriously after looking at your tumblr

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#41 GreySeal9
Member since 2010 • 28247 Posts

So if everyone in the world was more selfish, this would be a kinder, gentler world to live in? I'm sorry, that makes no sense. Allicrombie

Haha, well stated.

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lancea34

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#42 lancea34
Member since 2007 • 6912 Posts

Altruism doesn't exist. When you do someone a favor and/or help, you do it because it makes you happy, which in turn is selfish.

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kuraimen

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#43 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts

Altruism doesn't exist. When you do someone a favor and/or help, you do it because it makes you happy, which in turn is selfish.

lancea34
If your definition of selfishness is so broad then the term loses any useful meaning. All research now shows that altruism is very real and that it was a driving force in evolution for ours and other species. For more info read Frans de Wal's The Age of Empathy
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Rapporteur

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#44 Rapporteur
Member since 2012 • 95 Posts

Selfishness has absolutely nothing to do with any of those crimes. Selfishness is the rational pursuit of one's self-interest (1a). Theft, rape, and murder do nothing to favor one's self-interest (1b). Each act is universally recognized as a crime, and any person who commits such a crime must live the rest of his life in fear of retribution (1c). Condemning yourself to fear and punishment is not an act of selfishness (1d).

Life has no inherent meaning to one who is not selfish. Selfishness represents meaning and life, whereas altruism (the much vaunted alternative to selfishness) can only represent inherent meaninglessness and therefore death (2).

Valuing one's life has nothing to do with sociopathy. Valuing one's life is not a mental disorder. Valuing one's life is not a crime. (3)

Democracy has been a complete failure (4a), and yet according to consensus it has been a stunning success. Well of course the consensus would say that, as if the consensus inherently has any credibility, because democracy represents the rule of consensus (4b).Democracy has been failing for two and a half thousand years (4c), and yet the consensus says it is good, and the masses assume the consensus is correct because they are the consensus (4d).

Every atrocity in the history of humanity has been the result of the idea that the individual is an animal to be sacrificed (5a). The idea that they should be happy to sacrifice themselves for the sake of altruism, because altruism forced on others inevitably means one sacrificing himself for whatever cause some malicious villain wants to promote.

Laihendi

Okay, I've cut all the crap out of this rant and I'm going to address points that interest me only.

  1. In this case, I can only assume you've gone off the deep end. I'll grant you that selfishness is the rational pursuit of one's self-interest. However, the ends one [instrumentally] reasons about are usually of one's own caprice -- which has been, and continues to be, acts like murder and rape (1a). Murderers can calculate their action, as can rapists and theives, and still come to the conclusion that the action is rational for them to undertake. What you do not consider are the bounds of a person's rationality and the contexts they find themselves in. 1b is not even a corollary: there are many instances where one can murder and not necessarily end up in great fear of retribution. Here, which you've pointed out, a government could usually get away with atrocities like murder or genocidal rape without strong fear of retribution. I do not see why the same cannot be said of well entrenched mafias, gangs and powerful people affiliated to those organizations. 1c is entirely beside the point, that's a consequence of acting selfish in some contexts, not the act of selfishness itself. Plus, you've excluded those who do not consider the fact they are in danger of retribution or even being sussed out. When talking about rationality, I at least expect some discussion of its bounds and not just the opportunities and consequences open to an agent.
  2. I'm not really sure why you included this esotericism. Why must altruism necessarily represent meaninglessness and death?
  3. No one says valuing one's life is a crime, not even most altruists. You've set up a ridiculous dichotomy between the unabashed pursuit of one's interest and eschewing one's interest absolutely. I am pretty sure a normal human being can and does balance both.
  4. 4ais wholly daft. You say democracy has failed yet you do not provide any criteria or framework for evaluating democracy either per se or comparatively to other modes of governing. Hence, I really have no reason to believe you.4bis a classic mischaracterisation and limiting of democratic theory and practice: consensus democracy is rare, and importantly, it is not the only form of democracy available for institution. Consider the theory ofdeliberative democracy, a form of democracy where legitimacy is derived from deliberation and informed debate about political issues.4csuffers from the same defect as4a,you are giving me the conclusion, but expecting me to work backward for you and draw up the evaluative framework myself.To4d,I'd just like to say childish cynicism is not very cogent.
  5. I doubt this (5a) is true, but even if it is: It's fully possible for a selfish person to see human beings as means to his rational end, he will probably not want to sacrifice himself, but others are an acceptable trade off. This has probably been the case for most dictators of the 20 century. Ball's in your court.

I'm not impressed. Not that I expected to be.

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Rapporteur

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#45 Rapporteur
Member since 2012 • 95 Posts

tl;dr

Aljosa23
also, this
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#46 Rapporteur
Member since 2012 • 95 Posts

I think property rights and selfishness are both inherent necessities for lifeLaihendi
Non-normatively, organisms can survive without any property rights or being selfish as you define it (see: NON-HUMAN ANIMALS). This isn't really a hard conclusion to grasp.

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Leejjohno

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#47 Leejjohno
Member since 2005 • 13897 Posts

It just seemed like you were trying to justify selfishness or something there dude. It is a negative however you attempt to spin it.

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ghoklebutter

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#48 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][OP]Rapporteur

10/10 would read again

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#49 Rapporteur
Member since 2012 • 95 Posts

[QUOTE="Rapporteur"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][OP]ghoklebutter

10/10 would read again

Thanks. I do try my best to tolerate things long enough to respond to them, even though it does get hard when your opponent hides his points behind walls of vacuous crap
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harashawn

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#50 harashawn
Member since 2008 • 27620 Posts
A long time ago people realised that working together is more advantageous for everyone, and that's how societies were built. Your argument is dumb.