Scottish Independence Referendum

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for Starshine_M2A2
#1 Posted by Starshine_M2A2 (4931 posts) -

Just wanted to get people's thoughts on what Alex Salmond is trying to do.

When I first heard about it, it annoyed me. It sounds like this politician is trying to break up the UK after 300 years and would prefer that the countries of the world stood apart and divided rather than united and contributing to each other. Ultimately, I think it's going to push the world even further away from mutual cooperation and is the product of continued bitter relations between the English and Scottish which one man can't get over.

Avatar image for tenaka2
#2 Posted by tenaka2 (17052 posts) -

Just wanted to get people's thoughts on what Alex Salmond is trying to do.

When I first heard about it, it annoyed me. It sounds like this politician is trying to break up the UK after 300 years and would prefer that the countries of the world stood apart and divided rather than united and contributing to each other. Ultimately, I think it's going to push the world even further away from mutual cooperation and is the product of continued bitter relations between the English and Scottish which one man can't get over.

Starshine_M2A2

I lived in scotland for a number of years, a lot of people don't seem to care much about the issue and many think it would be an economical disaster. Scotland has no need for independance.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#3 Posted by LJS9502_basic (161966 posts) -

[QUOTE="Starshine_M2A2"]

Just wanted to get people's thoughts on what Alex Salmond is trying to do.

When I first heard about it, it annoyed me. It sounds like this politician is trying to break up the UK after 300 years and would prefer that the countries of the world stood apart and divided rather than united and contributing to each other. Ultimately, I think it's going to push the world even further away from mutual cooperation and is the product of continued bitter relations between the English and Scottish which one man can't get over.

tenaka2

I lived in scotland for a number of years, a lot of people don't seem to care much about the issue and many think it would be an economical disaster. Scotland has no need for independance.

But using your logic.....the conquered people have a right to their own country back.
Avatar image for tenaka2
#4 Posted by tenaka2 (17052 posts) -

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="Starshine_M2A2"]

Just wanted to get people's thoughts on what Alex Salmond is trying to do.

When I first heard about it, it annoyed me. It sounds like this politician is trying to break up the UK after 300 years and would prefer that the countries of the world stood apart and divided rather than united and contributing to each other. Ultimately, I think it's going to push the world even further away from mutual cooperation and is the product of continued bitter relations between the English and Scottish which one man can't get over.

LJS9502_basic

I lived in scotland for a number of years, a lot of people don't seem to care much about the issue and many think it would be an economical disaster. Scotland has no need for independance.

But using your logic.....the conquered people have a right to their own country back.

Aww bless, do a little research, Scotland asked to join the UK due to an economical disaster.

TheActs of Unionwere twoActs of Parliament: theUnion with Scotland Act 1706passed by theParliament of England, and theUnion with England Actpassed in 1707 by theParliament of Scotland. They put into effect the terms of theTreaty of Unionthat had been agreed on 22 July 1706, following negotiation between commissioners representing the parliaments of the two countries. The Acts joined theKingdom of Englandand theKingdom of Scotland(previously separatestates, with separate legislatures butwith the same monarch) into a single, united kingdom named "Great Britain".[2]

The two countries had shared a monarch since theUnion of the Crownsin 1603, whenKing James VI of Scotlandinherited the English throne from his double first cousin twice removed,Queen Elizabeth I. Although described as a Union of Crowns, until 1707 there were in fact two separate Crowns resting on the same head (as opposed to the implied creation of a single Crown and a single Kingdom, exemplified by the laterKingdom of Great Britain). There had been three attempts in 1606, 1667, and 1689 to unite the two countries by Acts of Parliament, but it was not until the early 18th century that both political establishments came to support the idea, albeit for different reasons.

The Acts took effect on 1 May 1707. On this date, the Scottish Parliament and the English Parliament united to form theParliament of Great Britain, based in thePalace of WestminsterinLondon, the home of the English Parliament.[3]Hence, the Acts are referred to as theUnion of the Parliaments. On the Union, historianSimon Schamasaid "What began as a hostile merger, would end in a full partnership in the most powerful going concern in the world ... it was one of the most astonishing transformations in European history."[4]

Avatar image for ej902
#5 Posted by EJ902 (14471 posts) -
I think it's an utterly ridiculous and immoral idea. It seems to be one huge ego trip for alex salmond, but I suspect the real reason it's gotten as much momentum as it has is because it's the only change to the status quo being offered. For a long time now britain has been in some bizarre asymmetrical devolution settlement, one that causes tension that will not go away but nobody has taken the problem seriously and done anything about it. Many things that the british government does are not relevant to the people of scotland (or similarly northern ireland), balance needs to be set so that the british government serves functions for the whole of britain. The question is how to devolve power properly - making a single english government is a terrible idea yet nobody seems to like the idea of dividing it into smaller government regions.
Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#6 Posted by LJS9502_basic (161966 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="tenaka2"]

I lived in scotland for a number of years, a lot of people don't seem to care much about the issue and many think it would be an economical disaster. Scotland has no need for independance.

tenaka2

But using your logic.....the conquered people have a right to their own country back.

Aww bless, do a little research, Scotland asked to join the UK due to an economical disaster.

TheActs of Unionwere twoActs of Parliament: theUnion with Scotland Act 1706passed by theParliament of England, and theUnion with England Actpassed in 1707 by theParliament of Scotland. They put into effect the terms of theTreaty of Unionthat had been agreed on 22 July 1706, following negotiation between commissioners representing the parliaments of the two countries. The Acts joined theKingdom of Englandand theKingdom of Scotland(previously separatestates, with separate legislatures butwith the same monarch) into a single, united kingdom named "Great Britain".[2]

The two countries had shared a monarch since theUnion of the Crownsin 1603, whenKing James VI of Scotlandinherited the English throne from his double first cousin twice removed,Queen Elizabeth I. Although described as a Union of Crowns, until 1707 there were in fact two separate Crowns resting on the same head (as opposed to the implied creation of a single Crown and a single Kingdom, exemplified by the laterKingdom of Great Britain). There had been three attempts in 1606, 1667, and 1689 to unite the two countries by Acts of Parliament, but it was not until the early 18th century that both political establishments came to support the idea, albeit for different reasons.

The Acts took effect on 1 May 1707. On this date, the Scottish Parliament and the English Parliament united to form theParliament of Great Britain, based in thePalace of WestminsterinLondon, the home of the English Parliament.[3]Hence, the Acts are referred to as theUnion of the Parliaments. On the Union, historianSimon Schamasaid "What began as a hostile merger, would end in a full partnership in the most powerful going concern in the world ... it was one of the most astonishing transformations in European history."[4]

You are not fun today.:(
Avatar image for tenaka2
#7 Posted by tenaka2 (17052 posts) -

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]But using your logic.....the conquered people have a right to their own country back. LJS9502_basic

blurgh

You are not fun today.:(

Sorry, works giving me a headache today.

Avatar image for Pirate700
#8 Posted by Pirate700 (46465 posts) -

Is Scotland really large enough as a country to stand alone in today's economic climate?

Avatar image for tabris91
#9 Posted by Tabris91 (7779 posts) -

Most Scots I know seem to support independance, though they're around my age.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#10 Posted by LJS9502_basic (161966 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="tenaka2"]

blurgh

tenaka2

You are not fun today.:(

Sorry, works giving me a headache today.

I know the feeling. I have to head in soon. Still I have the next two days off so it isn't all bad.
Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#11 Posted by LJS9502_basic (161966 posts) -

Is Scotland really large enough as a country to stand alone in today's economic climate?

Pirate700
Large? Size yes. But I don't know about their economic prowess. Though they'd be in the EU...how hard can it be? Next up...Welsh independence and the return of Northern Ireland to Ireland. Then we can tackle Cornwall.
Avatar image for tenaka2
#12 Posted by tenaka2 (17052 posts) -

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You are not fun today.:(LJS9502_basic

Sorry, works giving me a headache today.

I know the feeling. I have to head in soon. Still I have the next two days off so it isn't all bad.

That would be good, not off till saturday :/

Avatar image for tenaka2
#13 Posted by tenaka2 (17052 posts) -

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Is Scotland really large enough as a country to stand alone in today's economic climate?

LJS9502_basic

Large? Size yes. But I don't know about their economic prowess. Though they'd be in the EU...how hard can it be? Next up...Welsh independence and the return of Northern Ireland to Ireland. Then we can tackle Cornwall.

I don't think Ireland want NI back its, its an economic mill-stone.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#14 Posted by LJS9502_basic (161966 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Is Scotland really large enough as a country to stand alone in today's economic climate?

tenaka2

Large? Size yes. But I don't know about their economic prowess. Though they'd be in the EU...how hard can it be? Next up...Welsh independence and the return of Northern Ireland to Ireland. Then we can tackle Cornwall.

I don't think Ireland want NI back its, its an economic mill-stone.

Still.....it would be cool.:(
Avatar image for tenaka2
#15 Posted by tenaka2 (17052 posts) -

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Large? Size yes. But I don't know about their economic prowess. Though they'd be in the EU...how hard can it be? Next up...Welsh independence and the return of Northern Ireland to Ireland. Then we can tackle Cornwall.LJS9502_basic

I don't think Ireland want NI back its, its an economic mill-stone.

Still.....it would be cool.:(

It would, but it wouldn't really be fair on the people there that consider themselves british. Personally I am just happy that the peace process is still holding up.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#16 Posted by LJS9502_basic (161966 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="tenaka2"]

I don't think Ireland want NI back its, its an economic mill-stone.

tenaka2

Still.....it would be cool.:(

It would, but it wouldn't really be fair on the people there that consider themselves british. Personally I am just happy that the peace process is still holding up.

The queen will give free land in Wales, England, Scotland, or any of the islands. That solves it.:P

Edit: Does the term British mean anything substantial? Technically there isn't one British ethnicity.

Avatar image for tenaka2
#17 Posted by tenaka2 (17052 posts) -

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Still.....it would be cool.:(LJS9502_basic

It would, but it wouldn't really be fair on the people there that consider themselves british. Personally I am just happy that the peace process is still holding up.

The queen will give free land in Wales, England, Scotland, or any of the islands. That solves it.:P

Edit: Does the term British mean anything substantial? Technically there isn't one British ethnicity.

Well there are some nice tropical islands :)

British describes anyone that lives in the U.K. All of them would hold British passports for example rather then English, Welsh etc. Perhaps just a legacy from the 'British Empire' i'm not sure.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#18 Posted by LJS9502_basic (161966 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

It would, but it wouldn't really be fair on the people there that consider themselves british. Personally I am just happy that the peace process is still holding up.

tenaka2

The queen will give free land in Wales, England, Scotland, or any of the islands. That solves it.:P

Edit: Does the term British mean anything substantial? Technically there isn't one British ethnicity.

Well there are some nice tropical islands :)

British describes anyone that lives in the U.K. All of them would hold British passports for example rather then English, Welsh etc. Perhaps just a legacy from the 'British Empire' i'm not sure.

Yes I know that. But it only defines the island and the islands they hold. I meant in regard to ethnicity.
Avatar image for tabris91
#19 Posted by Tabris91 (7779 posts) -

^

My ethnicity is British.

On the census there's no English ethnicity.

Avatar image for tenaka2
#20 Posted by tenaka2 (17052 posts) -

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] The queen will give free land in Wales, England, Scotland, or any of the islands. That solves it.:P

Edit: Does the term British mean anything substantial? Technically there isn't one British ethnicity.

LJS9502_basic

Well there are some nice tropical islands :)

British describes anyone that lives in the U.K. All of them would hold British passports for example rather then English, Welsh etc. Perhaps just a legacy from the 'British Empire' i'm not sure.

Yes I know that. But it only defines the island and the islands they hold. I meant in regard to ethnicity.

No, 'British' has never been linked with ethnicity. Its not conceptualised like that here.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#21 Posted by LJS9502_basic (161966 posts) -

^

My ethnicity is British.

Postmortem123

British is made up of Irish (NI), Welsh, English, and Scottish...the major ethnicity anyway.

Avatar image for tenaka2
#22 Posted by tenaka2 (17052 posts) -

^

My ethnicity is British.

Postmortem123

I think it would more likely be English, Scotish, Welsh or Northern Irish.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#23 Posted by LJS9502_basic (161966 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="tenaka2"]

Well there are some nice tropical islands :)

British describes anyone that lives in the U.K. All of them would hold British passports for example rather then English, Welsh etc. Perhaps just a legacy from the 'British Empire' i'm not sure.

tenaka2

Yes I know that. But it only defines the island and the islands they hold. I meant in regard to ethnicity.

No, 'British' has never been linked with ethnicity. Its not conceptualised like that here.

Right. So would it be that hard for say a group that defines themselves as a like ethnicity to want to sever the ties?
Avatar image for not_wanted
#24 Posted by not_wanted (1990 posts) -

FREEEEEEEEEDOOOOMMMMMMMM!!!

braveheart_fullsize.jpg?ebabc94c

Avatar image for tenaka2
#25 Posted by tenaka2 (17052 posts) -

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Yes I know that. But it only defines the island and the islands they hold. I meant in regard to ethnicity.LJS9502_basic

No, 'British' has never been linked with ethnicity. Its not conceptualised like that here.

Right. So would it be that hard for say a group that defines themselves as a like ethnicity to want to sever the ties?

You are confusing me, ethnicity in the uk is usually defined by ones ethnic group, white, black, asian etc.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#26 Posted by LJS9502_basic (161966 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="tenaka2"]

No, 'British' has never been linked with ethnicity. Its not conceptualised like that here.

tenaka2

Right. So would it be that hard for say a group that defines themselves as a like ethnicity to want to sever the ties?

You are confusing me, ethnicity in the uk is usually defined by ones ethnic group, white, black, asian etc.

I meant the ethnic groups which lend their name to a "country' or whatever you want to call it.
Avatar image for tenaka2
#27 Posted by tenaka2 (17052 posts) -

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Right. So would it be that hard for say a group that defines themselves as a like ethnicity to want to sever the ties?LJS9502_basic

You are confusing me, ethnicity in the uk is usually defined by ones ethnic group, white, black, asian etc.

I meant the ethnic groups which lend their name to a "country' or whatever you want to call it.

So for example a person from northern ireland would describe themselves as Irish (or Northern Irish) and a British Citizen. THeir ethnic group would be either White, or white(irish) depending on the form.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
#28 Posted by LJS9502_basic (161966 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="tenaka2"]

You are confusing me, ethnicity in the uk is usually defined by ones ethnic group, white, black, asian etc.

tenaka2

I meant the ethnic groups which lend their name to a "country' or whatever you want to call it.

So for example a person from northern ireland would describe themselves as Irish (or Northern Irish) and a British Citizen. THeir ethnic group would be either White, or white(irish) depending on the form.

Yeah. But I'm not talking race.
Avatar image for tabris91
#29 Posted by Tabris91 (7779 posts) -

I think it would more likely be English, Scotish, Welsh or Northern Irish.

tenaka2

-shrug-

I recorded it as White British.

Avatar image for DeadlyRavenKing
#30 Posted by DeadlyRavenKing (41 posts) -
I do not think that Scotland could stand alone, they need England to survive in this global economy.
Avatar image for ej902
#31 Posted by EJ902 (14471 posts) -
[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Still.....it would be cool.:(LJS9502_basic

It would, but it wouldn't really be fair on the people there that consider themselves british. Personally I am just happy that the peace process is still holding up.

The queen will give free land in Wales, England, Scotland, or any of the islands. That solves it.:P

Edit: Does the term British mean anything substantial? Technically there isn't one British ethnicity.

I honestly have no idea what the term ethnicity actually means because the definition seems so loose and fluid, so I don't really care for the concept but I wouldn't say there are any things that are factually ethnicities, it just comes down to what people choose to refer to themselves as.
Avatar image for coolbeans90
#32 Posted by coolbeans90 (21305 posts) -

FREEEEEEEEEDOOOOMMMMMMMM!!!

braveheart_fullsize.jpg?ebabc94c

not_wanted

YEAAAAAAAAAH

FVCK THE QUEEN

Avatar image for gameofthering
#33 Posted by gameofthering (11100 posts) -

I'm 50/50 about it.

I'll need to see what I feel like voting for nearer the time.