Putin to gays: they must "leave the children in peace."

@GazaAli: " You and I have a choice in pretty much everything that we do in life as long as 1) We're not forced to do it under coercion, 2) We don't need to do it for survival."

I very much disagree with this. Let me give you an example.

Happiness, sadness, jealousy. These are all emotions that we have experienced. Now let me ask you, have you ever thought to yourself: Hey, I feel like being jealous today! I guess that you didn't. Nobody coerces you to be jealous, nor is it necessary for survival.

So now that we have established that you didn't choose to be jealous, nobody coerced you to be jealous, nor was it necessary for you to be jealous in order to survive, we can say that your assertion was wrong.

" To be perfectly clear here, I can and do accept the claim that homosexuals don't have a choice in who they feel attracted to, but they absolutely have a choice whether to act upon these feelings and urges or not."

Being homosexual is, by definition, being/feeling attracted to the opposite sex, and acting upon this feeling has no bearing on whether a person is homosexual or not. So no, homosexuality isn't a choice. Being around homosexuals won't make you one, and telling children about homosexuality won't make them homosexual.

@GazaAli: I think the main area of disagreement is rather or not there will be a major influencing factor with more open homosexuality. With the other side holding the belief that homosexuality is mainly biological and any influence is mostly irrelevant. So the stuff about authority figures and children is largely irrelevant because of the nature of homosexuality

Damn Gaza, for someone who preaches how liberal and progressive he is compared to his countrymen you sure seem like an idiot right now.

Most people would probably agree with both points. It is your implied link between the points that is laughable.

Children are influenced on some things at some times by authority figures, but there is zero evidence this pertains to sexual preference. All the evidence suggests otherwise and that sexual preference is not a choice and therefore is not influenced by others, let alone by a subset of others known as authority figures.

You appear not to understand that homosexuality is not a choice and that you don't 'get the gay' through association as if it is a virus or belief.

Where in my comment did I insinuate that love only equates to making out, groping, etc? Love comes in many forms.

I made it very clear that feelings themselves are not subject to choice, but acting upon them is. In your example, one cannot control his feeling of jealousy, but he can choose either to suppress it or act upon it and say hurt the person he's envious of. And even the feeling of jealousy is something that can either be conquered or get the better of you. So your example is not really helping discrediting my argument.

I never said being around homosexual will make you one. I first proceeded and established the fact that the normal mode of existence for sexuality is heterosexuality. So a child is expected, by simple statistics but most importantly by human anatomy and the biology behind sexuality,to grow up into a heterosexual adult. Being exposed to homosexuality, which is whether you like it or not and not necessarily from a discrediting POV is an abnormal mode of existence for one's sexuality, could influence the presupposed, by statistics and biology, heterosexuality of the child.

Prove it.

Wow, the homophobes are really coming out of the woodwork along with the idiots (they're generally the same people)

Gaza Ali is obviously a homophobe who has revealed his extreme ignorance by suggesting people will become gay if exposed to gay "propaganda". Yeah sure big fella, that's how it works, never mind the endless number of testimonies from gay people that they always knew they were gay and the lunacy of suggesting that a kiid or teen's brain can be so heavily rewired just by watching an episode of "Will and Grace". HAHA.

Oh and we have the idiots who have the idea that this law is about stopping gay people going up to kids in the park with a photo of a man buggering another on it or something. Like someone pointed out, the law basically prevents any public expression of sexual orientation (including anything as harmless as hand holding) and is only stoking the fires of homophobia.

The fact of the matter is, homosexual orientation is NOT going away. There are now and will be hundreds of thousands of gay teenagers out there in Russia who will grow up not fully understanding what their mind and body is telling me, this will just continue with the huge number of gay suicides that are already occurring in Russia. Homosexuality isn't going to go away, all this law is doing is making the future and the standard of living for a lot of Russian people much worse.

I actually made it very clear on a number of occasions that I'd be considered a liberal here and a conservative over there.

But most importantly, who said I need to conform to your point of view in order to be "progressive". The ego on you people lol. You basically stand against much of the values the western culture preaches. I have immense respect and fascination for the "founding fathers" of the current western civilization and not as much respect to today's western civilization. Not that it matters but I'm just stating a view I hold.

So far in this topic, I did not throw a single insult yet I received many. I'm not sure how that makes any of you more progressive and liberal than me.

That's the thing, I stated an opinion rather than a fact and made my own fallibility rather clear. I incorporated some reasoning and rationale to reach a certain conclusion. On the other hand, you proceeded to confidently reject that opinion, and I'm quoting you, as "objectively false". So why don'y you stop dropping one liners and make a coherent post of actual substance?

I've heard this dumb-ass analogy before.

Let's get away from using the emotion of jealousy and let's use happiness.

So I am always feeling happy but suddenly find myself in a society where happiness is a major taboo.
I can either suppress my emotion and live a life devoid of happiness OR I can continue being happy but seriously put my career and even my life in danger.

Now in what fucking context is the above situation ideal? Wouldn't it be a lot better if I could live in a society where happiness in not taboo and get the best of both worlds - being happy AND not fearing for my life/career? Why would you want people to live in a society where they have to make such a choice? Simply because you are "not that type" of person so **** them? Your views are nothing but selfishness, a human tendency as old as time and one trait that evolutionists have recently said are not favored by evolution. People like yourself and Putin have no place in the future.

Also, just say a gay person *could* suppress their homosexuality, then what the f**k do they have left? Unless they can somehow pull heterosexual attraction from thin air, then they must have a sexless, loveless life? Once again, forcing a joyless life onto others because it doesn't really affect you. A pure form of selfishness and disregard for others.

This isn't a matter of opinion. You can't say "in my opinion the sun is made of water" it's objectively false.

You "reasoning" doesn't make any sense. You are jumping to conclusions that don't make sense.

Being exposed to homosexuality doesn't influence a child's sexuality, not by statistics nor by biology. I don't really know how you can come to this conclusion without any evidence to back it up.

The only way what you're saying would make sense is if the child was very young, and was literally forced to be exposed to very graphic homosexual material. Even then, his "presupposed" sexuality wouldn't be affected that much. Homosexual-OCD would most likely be the most extreme result. But there is not a single, sound-minded homosexual who would want to do that to a child. Simpy saying it's "ok to be gay" in front of an audience that may have young children in it, is not going to do a damn thing to that kids sexuality itself, although it may affect his/her outlook on sexuality, which is what the ruski homophobes are so scared of.

Speaking of which, the law completely ignores the bigger issue; homophobia. I'd say it tacitly encourages it

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/17/ivan-okhlobystin-gays-oven_n_4456165.html

I am dead serious. I see it all the time on TV (news) and in RL. Gays are the most hateful people I have ever met.

Do you also have a problem with black people not accepting racism?

It makes perfect sense, you are just in denial.

No, it makes absolutely no sense

Like I said, denial. Stew in it all day for all I care. Our conversation is over as it is clear you have nothing constructive to contribute.

Why would i be in denial? You never submitted anything constructive, you just posted your nonsensical opinion

I'm pretty sure the Olympics are an opportunity to spread a message. They always do spread a message. Usually of healthy competition, unity and other pageant-like sentiments.

It would be about sexuality if gay people would like to promote homosexuality. What they want to promote is tolerance of different sexualities that dont hurt anyone, especially when the Olympic games are held at a country that has, to my knowledge, homophobic laws.

So, I'd say its a perfect opportunity actually.

Gaza, please, just stop.

Well at least someone thinks of the children. :P

I love hearing the terms 'gay life style' or 'gay agenda'. It automatically tells me that the person is an idiot. 'Grrrr, that damn gay agenda of being accepted! How dare they make me treat them like an equal in society!'.

What the hell is that shitty study supposed to prove? You do understand that just because a parent abuses a child of the same sex, that doesn't mean that the parent is homosexual right? Forget it, I'll just let UC Davis destroy your stupidity for me. And even if those 270 people were all, in fact, gay, that wouldn't prove that the hundreds of millions of gays around the world were child raping monsters.

Look up the Author. Basically, it's a bunch of shit

I am enrolled in an introductory course on Russian culture this semester and it has opened my eyes. It is easy sit in the comfort of our western homes and criticize Putin for his supposed discrimination of homosexuals but the fact is that homosexuality is a contentious social issue there and sometimes a middle line has to be straddled to keep the peace. Do I like it that gays are being targeted by government officials? No, but think of the children who are victimized by reckless socio-political agendas.

International gay activists are congregating in Moscow and St. Petersberg in an attempt to homosexualize the Russian youth as part of a multi-generational culture war. If you do not believe me then google it yourself - Russian police have had to detain numerous foreign homosexual activists masquerading as "tourists" for their dissemination of homosexual propaganda to minors. I do not necessarily agree with all of Putin's decisions, but it is easy to criticize from the comfort of your own armchair, while you are half a world away from the action and are blind to the realities of the situation.

If the Russian government wasn't so homophobic there wouldn't be any homosexual protests.

I made a simple drawing that illustrates your reasoning.

My father in-law hid my 4-year-old son's baby doll because he was afraid it was teaching him to be gay, as if it was some sort of habit that could be taught by learning to care for a baby.

What did you do in that situation?

@TheFlush: There's really nothing I can do to change his ass-backwards beliefs.

@TheFlush said:

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

@wis3boi said:

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

@whipassmt said:

@deeliman said:

@Aljosa23 said:

Damn, I didn't know whipassmt was a homophobe on top of being a pedophilia apologist.

Pedophillia apologist?

don't listen to Al, he's Canadian, hell they don't even know how to make bacon properly. Also it's odd that I'm supposedly the "pedophilia apologist" when I said that the gay athletes and tourists should leave the children alone. And I've previously said that the Boyscouts shouldn't let gay adults supervise scout trips.

Don't waste your time. Gays preach acceptance, but what they really mean is everybody but them. They expect you to accept them, yet if you don't, they can't accept you. They should practice what they preach, but they don't. They just attack you if you don't accept them and support their gay lifestyle.

not sure if serious

I am dead serious. I see it all the time on TV (news) and in RL. Gays are the most hateful people I have ever met.

I made a simple drawing that illustrates your reasoning.

Aw how cute, you wasted your time making a cartoon that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. Of course you want to avoid what I actually said and pretend I meant something totally different. Why wouldn't you? It helps you avoid what I actually said. That's okay, I have come to expect this type of avoidance and knew it would be avoided and twisted as much as possible to moment I wrote it. You guys can't ever have a real conversation about the subject without letting your stupidity come out. As soon as somebody points something out like I did, that person is instantly labeled a hater. **** the fact that they are speaking the truth, they are a hater. All I can say to that is...

How is it not related? You're complaining about people saying you shouldn't be allowed to oppress people. That's what the picture is about.

No, I am talking about how gays preach tolerance, but they have no tolerance. Like I already stated. They should practice what they preach. That tolerance door swings both ways. Instead of being tolerant of other peoples views, they become hateful and even violent in some cases, yet expect the world to be tolerant of them.

And NO, that is not what that picture is about. That picture is his sad pathetic attempt to twist what I said to what he wants it to mean (and it appears you want to do the same). I didn't say shit about marriage, SS, rights, or treating somebody as a lesser person. TWIST TWIST TWIST. Keep on attempting it. At least it is entertaining.

Why the flying **** would anyone make suggestions like those if not for homophobia? Nobody fucking says "X group should stop molesting children" with the intent of protecting children, they say it with the intent of singling out X group as child molesters and inciting public retaliation and violence against them.

Give an example of gays being intolerant to people.

Nope. learn to use google. I am not here to educate.

In other words "I'm talking out of my arse but rather than admit it I will pretend there is easy to find information but not provide any"

The mistake people like AmazonTreeBoa make is that they think that somehow to be tolerant, you have to engage in 100% tolerance. That's not true. One can be generally tolerant without tolerating bigotry. I think people like AmazonTreeBoa are just mad that their views get destroyed time and time again and therefore try to play the victim.

Like I said kid, I am not here to educate. When you are up to topic, come see me and then we can continue this discussion. If you wish to be lazy and not educate yourself on a topic you wish to be a part of, that's your choice, but at least stop acting ignorant with your dumb replies. I came here to have a discussion about the topic, not to educate somebody so that they too can be a part of it. Clearly you have nothing to contribute, so we are done here until you do have something to say that is actually worth my time to read it.

@GazaAli said:

@toast_burner said:

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

No, I am talking about how gays preach tolerance, but they have no tolerance. Like I already stated. They should practice what they preach. That tolerance door swings both ways. Instead of being tolerant of other peoples views, they become hateful and even violent in some cases, yet expect the world to be tolerant of them.

And NO, that is not what that picture is about. That picture is his sad pathetic attempt to twist what I said to what he wants it to mean (and it appears you want to do the same). I didn't say shit about marriage, SS, rights, or treating somebody as a lesser person. TWIST TWIST TWIST. Keep on attempting it. At least it is entertaining.

Give an example of gays being intolerant to people.

oh Gaza why do you continue to embarrass yourself?

@AmazonTreeBoa: Should black people be tolerant of racists?

@toast_burner said:

@GazaAli said:

@toast_burner said:

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

No, I am talking about how gays preach tolerance, but they have no tolerance. Like I already stated. They should practice what they preach. That tolerance door swings both ways. Instead of being tolerant of other peoples views, they become hateful and even violent in some cases, yet expect the world to be tolerant of them.

And NO, that is not what that picture is about. That picture is his sad pathetic attempt to twist what I said to what he wants it to mean (and it appears you want to do the same). I didn't say shit about marriage, SS, rights, or treating somebody as a lesser person. TWIST TWIST TWIST. Keep on attempting it. At least it is entertaining.

Give an example of gays being intolerant to people.

oh Gaza why do you continue to embarrass yourself?

At this point I'm thoroughly entertained

As if gays should tolerate beliefs that view them as sub human animals or ballot measures that strip them of rights that heterosexual couples enjoy. The entire view that homosexuals should tolerate intolerance towards them is asinine. Usually employed by semi literate bigots like yourself I might add.

Lets try using that analogy with other groups! Blacks should stop being so intolerant and preach acceptance towards the KKK and other white supremacist groups!

I love how you bring stuff like the KKK into even though it has nothing to do with this as if it is okay for gays to be hateful because the KKK is. News Flash junior. Two wrongs don't make a right, it makes two wrongs. Your whole post did nothing more than prove my point.

Why black? Why not white? I always see black black black black. As if people can't be racist against whites. Anyways, yes they should, just like whites should against racist. Doesn't make the racist any less ignorant just because you decided to practice tolerance instead of bitch because somebody didn't accept you. It's like Christians for example. Gays expect them to be tolerant of them, but fail to be tolerant of the Christian and his beliefs and the fact he/she was raised that way. To gays it is just simple **** that, except me or be damned. Screw you and your Christian beliefs and the fact you were raised that way. Everybody should be tolerant (to an extent) or everybody and stop caring so much what somebody else things and live their lives. Why do gays always care what others think anyways and always need others approval? I don't give two shits what others think of me and couldn't care less if they accept me or not. I guess it is true. The older you get, the less you care what others think of you and in turn, the happier your life is.

Man this thread is on a one way trip down the rabbit hole