Poll: Most Americans want elected officials to be magicians

There's an Onion article in here somewhere.

Programs in which at least a plurality of Americans do not want spending cut:

Education
Veterans' benefits and services
Health care
Medicare
Combating crime
Energy
Scientific research
Environmental protection
Anti-terrorism defenses
Agriculture
Military defense

Programs in which at least a plurality of Americans want spending cut:

Global poverty assistance
Unemployment assistance

Areas in which at least a plurality of Americans do not want states to get more money:

Decreasing pension plans of government employees
Decreasing funding for roads and public transportation
Decreasing funding for public colleges and universities
Decreasing health care services
Decreasing funding for K-12 public schools
Increasing taxes on businesses
Increasing sales taxes
Increasing personal income taxes

Areas in which at least a plurality of Americans want states to get more money:

?????

-------------

So, to recap: Americans want to eliminate the federal deficit solely by cutting unemployment assistance and foreign poverty assistance, and they want to eliminate state deficits by literally waving their hands and chanting, "Abracadabra, deficit be gone!"

And then they wonder why politicians aren't serious about eliminating the deficit.

Thoughts? I kinda feel that this would be depressing if it weren't so downright predictable. :P

we want everything but will raise hell if anyone expects us to pay for it.. that's the american way.

"The survey also shows that the public is reluctant to cut spending -- or raise taxes -- to balance state budgets."

gotta love that one..

Sacrifices definitely have to be made to get us out of our mess0Tyler0

i agree, let the "haves" sacrifice as i think us "have nots" have been sacrificing about 300 years too long

Haha that sounds about right...

[QUOTE="0Tyler0"]Sacrifices definitely have to be made to get us out of our messz4twenny

i agree, let the "haves" sacrifice as i think us "have nots" have been sacrificing about 300 years too long

Sacrifices definitely have to be made to get us out of our mess0Tyler0

Have to be made? Yes.

Will be made? Probably not until the general public gets its head out of its rear and accepts that sometimes problems require personal sacrifice, not just sacrifice on the part of everyone but you. ...In other words, probably never. :P

Of course, I'd like politicians to be magicians as well. They're just missing the secret ingredient in their potions - free market.

In all seriousness, I just had this discussion with a libertarian who wanted to enact Paul's budget to decrease the national debt. I had to speak with him for 45 minutes before he accepted the fact that his proposal would still dig us further into debt to the tune of 800 billion dollars per year. People don't want to accept the fact that we can't eliminate the debt without reducing medicare/medicaid, social security, reducing defense spending, and/or increasing taxes.

It's an enormous problem, and I see it as largely an education problem (not education as in formal education, but education in regards to knowledge about the issues at hand).mattbbpl

Definitely agree that it's an education problem. I don't think it's only an education problem, though - I think it's also a problem centered in the fact that Americans are very, very used to getting something for nothing, and to having every one of their problems solved by someone else and having all the pain endured by someone else. We're a long, long way away from JFK's famous exhortation to ask what one can do for one's country, I'm afraid.

People are idiots... not sure what else to take from this...

People are idiots... not sure what else to take from this...

heysharpshooter

This is the single most important piece of data in the entire world when it comes to the budget. Everything the politicians are doing (and more importantly aren't doing) makes no sense when taken logically, but makes perfect sense when interpreted in light of this information. The majority of elected officials are doing exactly what the public wants them to be doing: **** all.

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]Of course, I'd like politicians to be magicians as well. They're just missing the secret ingredient in their potions - free market.

In all seriousness, I just had this discussion with a libertarian who wanted to enact Paul's budget to decrease the national debt. I had to speak with him for 45 minutes before he accepted the fact that his proposal would still dig us further into debt to the tune of 800 billion dollars per year. People don't want to accept the fact that we can't eliminate the debt without reducing medicare/medicaid, social security, reducing defense spending, and/or increasing taxes.

It's an enormous problem, and I see it as largely an education problem (not education as in formal education, but education in regards to knowledge about the issues at hand).GabuEx

Definitely agree that it's an education problem. I don't think it's only an education problem, though - I think it's also a problem centered in the fact that Americans are very, very used to getting something for nothing, and to having every one of their problems solved by someone else and having all the pain endured by someone else. We're a long, long way away from JFK's famous exhortation to ask what one can do for one's country, I'm afraid.

[QUOTE="heysharpshooter"]

People are idiots... not sure what else to take from this...

GabuEx

This is the single most important piece of data in the entire world when it comes to the budget. Everything the politicians are doing (and more importantly aren't doing) makes no sense when taken logically, but makes perfect sense when interpreted in light of this information. The majority of elected officials are doing exactly what the public wants them to be doing: **** all.

Indeed... thats why I say **** it, and drink booze and chase tail...

[QUOTE="0Tyler0"]Sacrifices definitely have to be made to get us out of our messz4twenny

i agree, let the "haves" sacrifice as i think us "have nots" have been sacrificing about 300 years too long

All are going to have to sacrifice. Yes, it sucks that the "have nots" have gotten the shaft for so long while the "haves" have only grown fatter, but if we're going to dig out of this hole then all are going to have to sacrifice. We're all in this together.

fyi. interesting look at current proposed 2011 budget...

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/newsgraphics/2011/0119-budget/index.html

Illusion, Michael! A trick is something a whore does for money... *sees children* ...or cocaine!

fyi. interesting look at current proposed 2011 budget...

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/newsgraphics/2011/0119-budget/index.html

comp_atkins

Oh, nice, that is a pretty nifty graphic.

What's with the massive cut to the Employment and Training Administration? I have no idea what that even does. :P

I like how well that graphic illustrates the impact of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, too, the three elephants in the room that no one wants to talk about.

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]

fyi. interesting look at current proposed 2011 budget...

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/newsgraphics/2011/0119-budget/index.html

GabuEx

Oh, nice, that is a pretty nifty graphic.

What's with the massive cut to the Employment and Training Administration? I have no idea what that even does. :P

I like how well that graphic illustrates the impact of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, too, the three elephants in the room that no one wants to talk about.

This is why all politicians need to be on a 1 term limit... the constant re-election cycle means no one wants to do anything that might not be popular...

The Ministry of Magic is pretty damn cool

The GOP is weighing in now.

They promise to address at least portions of the big three like Medicare and Social Security. Cantor specifically mentions privatizing them (or at least portions of them). I didn't see any mention of defense spending cuts or tax increases in there as part of the reform (I'd at least like to see the social security tax be extended to all income).

That's what I was saying in another thread. People want more services and perks, but want someone else to pay for them. They're ok with cutting services as long as they aren't affected. They're ok with others paying a higher share as long as they aren't responsible for any increases. It just doesn't work that way. If we want nice social services, everyone has to contribute. Not just the other guy.That's why we keep getting in debt, because politicans would rather just spend money they don't have then actually alienate the voters by holding to a budget.

The GOP is weighing in now.

They promise to address at least portions of the big three like Medicare and Social Security. Cantor specifically mentions privatizing them (or at least portions of them). I didn't see any mention of defense spending cuts or tax increases in there as part of the reform (I'd at least like to see the social security tax be extended to all income).

It's rather one-sided at this point. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

mattbbpl

I will give them credit for at least being honest that that's where the vast bulk of the American budget goes.

I'm still waiting for anyone to address the defense budget, though. :P

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]

The GOP is weighing in now.

They promise to address at least portions of the big three like Medicare and Social Security. Cantor specifically mentions privatizing them (or at least portions of them). I didn't see any mention of defense spending cuts or tax increases in there as part of the reform (I'd at least like to see the social security tax be extended to all income).

It's rather one-sided at this point. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

I will give them credit for at least being honest that that's where the vast bulk of the American budget goes.

I'm still waiting for anyone to address the defense budget, though. :P

Stop putting tax money into prisons. That would help.

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]

The GOP is weighing in now.

They promise to address at least portions of the big three like Medicare and Social Security. Cantor specifically mentions privatizing them (or at least portions of them). I didn't see any mention of defense spending cuts or tax increases in there as part of the reform (I'd at least like to see the social security tax be extended to all income).

It's rather one-sided at this point. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

GabuEx

I will give them credit for at least being honest that that's where the vast bulk of the American budget goes.

I'm still waiting for anyone to address the defense budget, though. :P

That's what I was saying in another thread. People want more services and perks, but want someone else to pay for them. They're ok with cutting services as long as they aren't affected. They're ok with others paying a higher share as long as they aren't responsible for any increases. It just doesn't work that way. If we want nice social services, everyone has to contribute. Not just the other guy.That's why we keep getting in debt, because politicans would rather just spend money they don't have then actually alienate the voters by holding to a budget.

sonicare

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]

The GOP is weighing in now.

They promise to address at least portions of the big three like Medicare and Social Security. Cantor specifically mentions privatizing them (or at least portions of them). I didn't see any mention of defense spending cuts or tax increases in there as part of the reform (I'd at least like to see the social security tax be extended to all income).

It's rather one-sided at this point. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

I will give them credit for at least being honest that that's where the vast bulk of the American budget goes.

I'm still waiting for anyone to address the defense budget, though. :P

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

I will give them credit for at least being honest that that's where the vast bulk of the American budget goes.

I'm still waiting for anyone to address the defense budget, though. :P

surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="sonicare"] The problem with the GOP's stance on the deficit, is that they are for cutting taxes for everyone. That's not going to help a budget deficit.sonicare

The idea that tax breaks increase revenue can rather easily be defeated by the fact that that premise would logically imply that a tax rate of 0% would maximize revenue.

I think most addicts wish their addictions could be magically purged away so they weren't faced with the difficult, painful battle of actually, you know, fighting them.

Not surprising at all. It's the same reason a million junkies'll tell you shooting junk will kill you WHILE they load a rig up for their arm. People don't want to feel the pain, even though they know it's not plausible NOT TO. Human nature 101.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="sonicare"] The problem with the GOP's stance on the deficit, is that they are for cutting taxes for everyone. That's not going to help a budget deficit.sonicare

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

That's what I was saying in another thread. People want more services and perks, but want someone else to pay for them. They're ok with cutting services as long as they aren't affected. They're ok with others paying a higher share as long as they aren't responsible for any increases. It just doesn't work that way. If we want nice social services, everyone has to contribute. Not just the other guy.That's why we keep getting in debt, because politicans would rather just spend money they don't have then actually alienate the voters by holding to a budget.

surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] depends how deep you cut, but for where the majority of them stand you are correct.GabuEx

The idea that tax breaks increase revenue can rather easily be defeated by the fact that that premise would logically imply that a tax rate of 0% would maximize revenue.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="sonicare"]

That's what I was saying in another thread. People want more services and perks, but want someone else to pay for them. They're ok with cutting services as long as they aren't affected. They're ok with others paying a higher share as long as they aren't responsible for any increases. It just doesn't work that way. If we want nice social services, everyone has to contribute. Not just the other guy.That's why we keep getting in debt, because politicans would rather just spend money they don't have then actually alienate the voters by holding to a budget.

mattbbpl

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="sonicare"] Don't get me wrong, sometimes tax breaks can stimulate the economy and lead to a higher tax base. But, I think we could have a slightly higher tax rate - ala Reagan years - without substantially hurting the economy.

surrealnumber5

The idea that tax breaks increase revenue can rather easily be defeated by the fact that that premise would logically imply that a tax rate of 0% would maximize revenue.

Correct; it is neither the case that all tax cuts increase revenue nor the case that all tax hikes increase revenue.

Damn, I thought this was actually going to be a topic about Americans wanting the elected officials to literally be magicians. Would have made politics much more interesting. :(LZ71

I would like that too; at least we'd be entertained while accomplishing nothing of material note. :P

I do.

Political debates would turn into magic duels.

I would actually watch them.:D

2012 elections

It may be time to consider moving somewhere else. Then watch the country reach it's inevitable snapping point.

fyi. interesting look at current proposed 2011 budget...

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/newsgraphics/2011/0119-budget/index.html

comp_atkins

You know, at some point I can see us passing a law that artificially simply erases the debt. As in, saying it no longer exists.

You know, at some point I can see us passing a law that artificially simply erases the debt. As in, saying it no longer exists.

789shadow

No, there will simple be a "revolution" and the "new" government will have 0 debt.;)