Poll: Most Americans want elected officials to be magicians

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GabuEx

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#1 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

There's an Onion article in here somewhere.

Programs in which at least a plurality of Americans do not want spending cut:

Education
Veterans' benefits and services
Health care
Medicare
Combating crime
Energy
Scientific research
Environmental protection
Anti-terrorism defenses
Agriculture
Military defense

Programs in which at least a plurality of Americans want spending cut:

Global poverty assistance
Unemployment assistance

Areas in which at least a plurality of Americans do not want states to get more money:

Decreasing pension plans of government employees
Decreasing funding for roads and public transportation
Decreasing funding for public colleges and universities
Decreasing health care services
Decreasing funding for K-12 public schools
Increasing taxes on businesses
Increasing sales taxes
Increasing personal income taxes

Areas in which at least a plurality of Americans want states to get more money:

?????

-------------

So, to recap: Americans want to eliminate the federal deficit solely by cutting unemployment assistance and foreign poverty assistance, and they want to eliminate state deficits by literally waving their hands and chanting, "Abracadabra, deficit be gone!"

And then they wonder why politicians aren't serious about eliminating the deficit.

Thoughts? I kinda feel that this would be depressing if it weren't so downright predictable. :P

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comp_atkins

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#2 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 37712 Posts

we want everything but will raise hell if anyone expects us to pay for it.. that's the american way.

"The survey also shows that the public is reluctant to cut spending -- or raise taxes -- to balance state budgets."

gotta love that one..

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0Tyler0

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#3 0Tyler0
Member since 2008 • 2602 Posts
Sacrifices definitely have to be made to get us out of our mess
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mattbbpl

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#4 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 21598 Posts
Of course, I'd like politicians to be magicians as well. They're just missing the secret ingredient in their potions - free market.

In all seriousness, I just had this discussion with a libertarian who wanted to enact Paul's budget to decrease the national debt. I had to speak with him for 45 minutes before he accepted the fact that his proposal would still dig us further into debt to the tune of 800 billion dollars per year. People don't want to accept the fact that we can't eliminate the debt without reducing medicare/medicaid, social security, reducing defense spending, and/or increasing taxes.

It's an enormous problem, and I see it as largely an education problem (not education as in formal education, but education in regards to knowledge about the issues at hand).
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z4twenny

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#5 z4twenny
Member since 2006 • 4898 Posts

Sacrifices definitely have to be made to get us out of our mess0Tyler0

i agree, let the "haves" sacrifice as i think us "have nots" have been sacrificing about 300 years too long

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Zilch90

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#6 Zilch90
Member since 2009 • 354 Posts

Haha that sounds about right...

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mattbbpl

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#7 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 21598 Posts

[QUOTE="0Tyler0"]Sacrifices definitely have to be made to get us out of our messz4twenny

i agree, let the "haves" sacrifice as i think us "have nots" have been sacrificing about 300 years too long

That attitude isn't going to work. It's grown way too deep for that.

Sacrifices from all classes will have to be made.
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GabuEx

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#8 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

Sacrifices definitely have to be made to get us out of our mess0Tyler0

Have to be made? Yes.

Will be made? Probably not until the general public gets its head out of its rear and accepts that sometimes problems require personal sacrifice, not just sacrifice on the part of everyone but you. ...In other words, probably never. :P

Of course, I'd like politicians to be magicians as well. They're just missing the secret ingredient in their potions - free market.

In all seriousness, I just had this discussion with a libertarian who wanted to enact Paul's budget to decrease the national debt. I had to speak with him for 45 minutes before he accepted the fact that his proposal would still dig us further into debt to the tune of 800 billion dollars per year. People don't want to accept the fact that we can't eliminate the debt without reducing medicare/medicaid, social security, reducing defense spending, and/or increasing taxes.

It's an enormous problem, and I see it as largely an education problem (not education as in formal education, but education in regards to knowledge about the issues at hand).mattbbpl

Definitely agree that it's an education problem. I don't think it's only an education problem, though - I think it's also a problem centered in the fact that Americans are very, very used to getting something for nothing, and to having every one of their problems solved by someone else and having all the pain endured by someone else. We're a long, long way away from JFK's famous exhortation to ask what one can do for one's country, I'm afraid.

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heysharpshooter

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#9 heysharpshooter
Member since 2009 • 6348 Posts

People are idiots... not sure what else to take from this...

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GabuEx

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#10 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

People are idiots... not sure what else to take from this...

heysharpshooter

This is the single most important piece of data in the entire world when it comes to the budget. Everything the politicians are doing (and more importantly aren't doing) makes no sense when taken logically, but makes perfect sense when interpreted in light of this information. The majority of elected officials are doing exactly what the public wants them to be doing: **** all.

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CRS98

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#11 CRS98
Member since 2004 • 9036 Posts
Not even the Mages Guild has that kind of power.
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mattbbpl

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#12 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 21598 Posts

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]Of course, I'd like politicians to be magicians as well. They're just missing the secret ingredient in their potions - free market.

In all seriousness, I just had this discussion with a libertarian who wanted to enact Paul's budget to decrease the national debt. I had to speak with him for 45 minutes before he accepted the fact that his proposal would still dig us further into debt to the tune of 800 billion dollars per year. People don't want to accept the fact that we can't eliminate the debt without reducing medicare/medicaid, social security, reducing defense spending, and/or increasing taxes.

It's an enormous problem, and I see it as largely an education problem (not education as in formal education, but education in regards to knowledge about the issues at hand).GabuEx

Definitely agree that it's an education problem. I don't think it's only an education problem, though - I think it's also a problem centered in the fact that Americans are very, very used to getting something for nothing, and to having every one of their problems solved by someone else and having all the pain endured by someone else. We're a long, long way away from JFK's famous exhortation to ask what one can do for one's country, I'm afraid.

I guess I'm overly optimistic that logic tends to win out once people understand the facts :P

In a country where a large number of people still think that the Bush tax cuts paid for themselves, though, I certainly think that education is the place to start.

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heysharpshooter

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#13 heysharpshooter
Member since 2009 • 6348 Posts

[QUOTE="heysharpshooter"]

People are idiots... not sure what else to take from this...

GabuEx

This is the single most important piece of data in the entire world when it comes to the budget. Everything the politicians are doing (and more importantly aren't doing) makes no sense when taken logically, but makes perfect sense when interpreted in light of this information. The majority of elected officials are doing exactly what the public wants them to be doing: **** all.

Indeed... thats why I say **** it, and drink booze and chase tail...

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worlock77

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#14 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="0Tyler0"]Sacrifices definitely have to be made to get us out of our messz4twenny

i agree, let the "haves" sacrifice as i think us "have nots" have been sacrificing about 300 years too long

All are going to have to sacrifice. Yes, it sucks that the "have nots" have gotten the shaft for so long while the "haves" have only grown fatter, but if we're going to dig out of this hole then all are going to have to sacrifice. We're all in this together.

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comp_atkins

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#15 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 37712 Posts

fyi. interesting look at current proposed 2011 budget...

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/newsgraphics/2011/0119-budget/index.html

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Oleg_Huzwog

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#16 Oleg_Huzwog
Member since 2007 • 21885 Posts

Illusion, Michael! A trick is something a whore does for money... *sees children* ...or cocaine!

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GabuEx

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#17 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

fyi. interesting look at current proposed 2011 budget...

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/newsgraphics/2011/0119-budget/index.html

comp_atkins

Oh, nice, that is a pretty nifty graphic.

What's with the massive cut to the Employment and Training Administration? I have no idea what that even does. :P

I like how well that graphic illustrates the impact of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, too, the three elephants in the room that no one wants to talk about.

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heysharpshooter

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#18 heysharpshooter
Member since 2009 • 6348 Posts

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]

fyi. interesting look at current proposed 2011 budget...

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/newsgraphics/2011/0119-budget/index.html

GabuEx

Oh, nice, that is a pretty nifty graphic.

What's with the massive cut to the Employment and Training Administration? I have no idea what that even does. :P

I like how well that graphic illustrates the impact of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, too, the three elephants in the room that no one wants to talk about.

This is why all politicians need to be on a 1 term limit... the constant re-election cycle means no one wants to do anything that might not be popular...

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UCF_Knight

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#19 UCF_Knight
Member since 2010 • 6863 Posts
I would vote for David Blaine.
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Scr00I

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#20 Scr00I
Member since 2009 • 1130 Posts

The Ministry of Magic is pretty damn cool

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Maniacc1

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#21 Maniacc1
Member since 2006 • 5354 Posts
At least everyone agrees on Global Poverty Assistance..... :P
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lloveLamp

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#22 lloveLamp
Member since 2009 • 2891 Posts
two words: Destiny
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mattbbpl

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#23 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 21598 Posts

The GOP is weighing in now.

They promise to address at least portions of the big three like Medicare and Social Security. Cantor specifically mentions privatizing them (or at least portions of them). I didn't see any mention of defense spending cuts or tax increases in there as part of the reform (I'd at least like to see the social security tax be extended to all income).

It's rather one-sided at this point. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

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-Tish-

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#24 -Tish-
Member since 2007 • 3624 Posts
Oh I thought this was gonna be a serious thread about magicians. :(
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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#25 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

That's what I was saying in another thread. People want more services and perks, but want someone else to pay for them. They're ok with cutting services as long as they aren't affected. They're ok with others paying a higher share as long as they aren't responsible for any increases. It just doesn't work that way. If we want nice social services, everyone has to contribute. Not just the other guy.That's why we keep getting in debt, because politicans would rather just spend money they don't have then actually alienate the voters by holding to a budget.

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GabuEx

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#26 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

The GOP is weighing in now.

They promise to address at least portions of the big three like Medicare and Social Security. Cantor specifically mentions privatizing them (or at least portions of them). I didn't see any mention of defense spending cuts or tax increases in there as part of the reform (I'd at least like to see the social security tax be extended to all income).

It's rather one-sided at this point. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

mattbbpl

I will give them credit for at least being honest that that's where the vast bulk of the American budget goes.

I'm still waiting for anyone to address the defense budget, though. :P

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#27 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts
[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]

The GOP is weighing in now.

They promise to address at least portions of the big three like Medicare and Social Security. Cantor specifically mentions privatizing them (or at least portions of them). I didn't see any mention of defense spending cuts or tax increases in there as part of the reform (I'd at least like to see the social security tax be extended to all income).

It's rather one-sided at this point. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

I will give them credit for at least being honest that that's where the vast bulk of the American budget goes.

I'm still waiting for anyone to address the defense budget, though. :P

The problem with the GOP's stance on the deficit, is that they are for cutting taxes for everyone. That's not going to help a budget deficit.
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BluRayHiDef

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#28 BluRayHiDef
Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

Stop putting tax money into prisons. That would help.

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mattbbpl

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#29 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 21598 Posts

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]

The GOP is weighing in now.

They promise to address at least portions of the big three like Medicare and Social Security. Cantor specifically mentions privatizing them (or at least portions of them). I didn't see any mention of defense spending cuts or tax increases in there as part of the reform (I'd at least like to see the social security tax be extended to all income).

It's rather one-sided at this point. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

GabuEx

I will give them credit for at least being honest that that's where the vast bulk of the American budget goes.

I'm still waiting for anyone to address the defense budget, though. :P

Yeah, with cuts to Medicare and Social Security being proposed, perhaps someone will finally raise up the idea of cutting into that a bit as well.
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surrealnumber5

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#30 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

That's what I was saying in another thread. People want more services and perks, but want someone else to pay for them. They're ok with cutting services as long as they aren't affected. They're ok with others paying a higher share as long as they aren't responsible for any increases. It just doesn't work that way. If we want nice social services, everyone has to contribute. Not just the other guy.That's why we keep getting in debt, because politicans would rather just spend money they don't have then actually alienate the voters by holding to a budget.

sonicare
politicians have the job of getting reelected, that is their only real job, and a lot of them are good at it. what ever it takes....
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#31 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]

The GOP is weighing in now.

They promise to address at least portions of the big three like Medicare and Social Security. Cantor specifically mentions privatizing them (or at least portions of them). I didn't see any mention of defense spending cuts or tax increases in there as part of the reform (I'd at least like to see the social security tax be extended to all income).

It's rather one-sided at this point. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

I will give them credit for at least being honest that that's where the vast bulk of the American budget goes.

I'm still waiting for anyone to address the defense budget, though. :P

The problem with the GOP's stance on the deficit, is that they are for cutting taxes for everyone. That's not going to help a budget deficit.

depends how deep you cut, but for where the majority of them stand you are correct.
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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#32 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
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[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

I will give them credit for at least being honest that that's where the vast bulk of the American budget goes.

I'm still waiting for anyone to address the defense budget, though. :P

surrealnumber5

The problem with the GOP's stance on the deficit, is that they are for cutting taxes for everyone. That's not going to help a budget deficit.

depends how deep you cut, but for where the majority of them stand you are correct.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes tax breaks can stimulate the economy and lead to a higher tax base. But, I think we could have a slightly higher tax rate - ala Reagan years - without substantially hurting the economy.

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GabuEx

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#33 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="sonicare"] The problem with the GOP's stance on the deficit, is that they are for cutting taxes for everyone. That's not going to help a budget deficit.sonicare

depends how deep you cut, but for where the majority of them stand you are correct.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes tax breaks can stimulate the economy and lead to a higher tax base. But, I think we could have a slightly higher tax rate - ala Reagan years - without substantially hurting the economy.

The idea that tax breaks increase revenue can rather easily be defeated by the fact that that premise would logically imply that a tax rate of 0% would maximize revenue.

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LZ71

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#34 LZ71
Member since 2008 • 10524 Posts
Damn, I thought this was actually going to be a topic about Americans wanting the elected officials to literally be magicians. Would have made politics much more interesting. :( Anyways, this information isn't that surprising to me (sadly), as I've talked to many people before who feel this way and see nothing wrong with it.
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Shame-usBlackley

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#35 Shame-usBlackley
Member since 2002 • 18266 Posts

I think most addicts wish their addictions could be magically purged away so they weren't faced with the difficult, painful battle of actually, you know, fighting them.

Not surprising at all. It's the same reason a million junkies'll tell you shooting junk will kill you WHILE they load a rig up for their arm. People don't want to feel the pain, even though they know it's not plausible NOT TO. Human nature 101.

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surrealnumber5

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#36 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="sonicare"] The problem with the GOP's stance on the deficit, is that they are for cutting taxes for everyone. That's not going to help a budget deficit.sonicare

depends how deep you cut, but for where the majority of them stand you are correct.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes tax breaks can stimulate the economy and lead to a higher tax base. But, I think we could have a slightly higher tax rate - ala Reagan years - without substantially hurting the economy.

that is a valid view, but i trust you also understand that the more the government takes the less capital there is for the market, the only place for real debate is what one finds to be best for society, social care or individual action, and where the line is drawn between. i dont think i must state my positions ti you, but i will not argue your view to be an invalid one, but if taxes are raised the chance that they will be cut once debt is repaid is slim to none, and the whole thing may start over again. this is a chance to set president and how we act may shape our futures in worse ways than where we sit now. i am just pushing for a cautious approach in this thread as i demonstrated in another thread, without sales tax, i already pay 50% of my wages in state local and federal taxes, do you find 1/2 of your labors being taken away enough? how much more would you like?
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mattbbpl

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#37 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 21598 Posts
[QUOTE="sonicare"]

That's what I was saying in another thread. People want more services and perks, but want someone else to pay for them. They're ok with cutting services as long as they aren't affected. They're ok with others paying a higher share as long as they aren't responsible for any increases. It just doesn't work that way. If we want nice social services, everyone has to contribute. Not just the other guy.That's why we keep getting in debt, because politicans would rather just spend money they don't have then actually alienate the voters by holding to a budget.

surrealnumber5
politicians have the job of getting reelected, that is their only real job, and a lot of them are good at it. what ever it takes....

Their job is to lead the country and represent their constituents. Getting elected should merely be the symptom of leading and representing well. Of course, it takes educated and informed constituents and an ethical backbone to actually make that happen. Most politicians are lacking both.
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surrealnumber5

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#38 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] depends how deep you cut, but for where the majority of them stand you are correct.GabuEx

Don't get me wrong, sometimes tax breaks can stimulate the economy and lead to a higher tax base. But, I think we could have a slightly higher tax rate - ala Reagan years - without substantially hurting the economy.

The idea that tax breaks increase revenue can rather easily be defeated by the fact that that premise would logically imply that a tax rate of 0% would maximize revenue.

that is like saying 100% tax would easily take care of the debt
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#39 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="sonicare"]

That's what I was saying in another thread. People want more services and perks, but want someone else to pay for them. They're ok with cutting services as long as they aren't affected. They're ok with others paying a higher share as long as they aren't responsible for any increases. It just doesn't work that way. If we want nice social services, everyone has to contribute. Not just the other guy.That's why we keep getting in debt, because politicans would rather just spend money they don't have then actually alienate the voters by holding to a budget.

mattbbpl
politicians have the job of getting reelected, that is their only real job, and a lot of them are good at it. what ever it takes....

Their job is to lead the country and represent their constituents. Getting elected should merely be the symptom of leading and representing well. Of course, it takes educated and informed constituents and an ethical backbone to actually make that happen. Most politicians are lacking both.

what must they do to keep their power and paycheck?
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#40 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="sonicare"] Don't get me wrong, sometimes tax breaks can stimulate the economy and lead to a higher tax base. But, I think we could have a slightly higher tax rate - ala Reagan years - without substantially hurting the economy.

surrealnumber5

The idea that tax breaks increase revenue can rather easily be defeated by the fact that that premise would logically imply that a tax rate of 0% would maximize revenue.

that is like saying 100% tax would easily take care of the debt

Correct; it is neither the case that all tax cuts increase revenue nor the case that all tax hikes increase revenue.

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GabuEx

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#41 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

Damn, I thought this was actually going to be a topic about Americans wanting the elected officials to literally be magicians. Would have made politics much more interesting. :(LZ71

I would like that too; at least we'd be entertained while accomplishing nothing of material note. :P

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mattbbpl

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#42 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 21598 Posts
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] politicians have the job of getting reelected, that is their only real job, and a lot of them are good at it. what ever it takes....

Their job is to lead the country and represent their constituents. Getting elected should merely be the symptom of leading and representing well. Of course, it takes educated and informed constituents and an ethical backbone to actually make that happen. Most politicians are lacking both.

what must they do to keep their power and paycheck?

I don't understand your question. I thought I'd answered it in my preceding post.
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surrealnumber5

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#43 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"] Their job is to lead the country and represent their constituents. Getting elected should merely be the symptom of leading and representing well. Of course, it takes educated and informed constituents and an ethical backbone to actually make that happen. Most politicians are lacking both.

what must they do to keep their power and paycheck?

I don't understand your question. I thought I'd answered it in my preceding post.

you described their job description not what they need to do to keep it.
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mattbbpl

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#44 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 21598 Posts
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] what must they do to keep their power and paycheck?

I don't understand your question. I thought I'd answered it in my preceding post.

you described their job description not what they need to do to keep it.

Are you implying that the mere action of them keeping their job signifies that they're doing their job well? Or are you legitimately asking how they could do their job well and get re-elected?
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dercoo

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#45 dercoo
Member since 2006 • 12555 Posts

I do.

Political debates would turn into magic duels.

I would actually watch them.:D

2012 elections

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789shadow

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#46 789shadow
Member since 2006 • 20195 Posts

It may be time to consider moving somewhere else. Then watch the country reach it's inevitable snapping point.

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#47 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts
Gabu, here in California direct citizen voting can make such jackassed and ill-informed notions constitutionally binding! Yay democracy! Boo the people who actual are part of it!
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Elraptor

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#48 Elraptor
Member since 2004 • 30966 Posts

fyi. interesting look at current proposed 2011 budget...

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/newsgraphics/2011/0119-budget/index.html

comp_atkins
The most incredible figure is the amount we're paying in interest on loans . . .
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789shadow

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#49 789shadow
Member since 2006 • 20195 Posts

You know, at some point I can see us passing a law that artificially simply erases the debt. As in, saying it no longer exists.

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dercoo

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#50 dercoo
Member since 2006 • 12555 Posts

You know, at some point I can see us passing a law that artificially simply erases the debt. As in, saying it no longer exists.

789shadow

No, there will simple be a "revolution" and the "new" government will have 0 debt.;)