Pain and Gain: Are the film's stars on steroids?

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BluRayHiDef

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#1 BluRayHiDef
Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

Pain and Gain is an upcoming film about two bodybuilders who commit extorsion and kidnapping, and is directed by Michael Bay. The two stars of the muscle themed flick, Mark Wahlberg and Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, are surrounded by controversy due to their massive muscular physiques; people are saying that they're on steroids, that their physiques are not attainable naturally. What do you guys think? Here are two videos, one about The Rock and the other about Wahlberg. Watch them and provide your opinion on whether The Rock and Mark Wall Berg are on steroids.

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KiIIyou

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#2 KiIIyou
Member since 2006 • 27199 Posts
Nuttin wrong with steroids.
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Boddicker

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#3 Boddicker
Member since 2012 • 4458 Posts

You would be surprised at how fast you can grow muscle with alot of these very expensive but legal supplements that a non-bodybuilder/weightlifter would have never heard of. You have to keep in mind that The Rock and Mark Wahlberg are obviously VERY motivated people and they probably worked out several hours a day for months prior to this movie. Several actors have gone through rather radical body changes in a short period of time (Christian Bale started production on the first Batman movie after portraying an anorexic in The Machinist a few months earlier).

I've been a fairly regular weightlifter for years, but I only take protein. If you look in the muscle magazines there are all kinds of legal pseudo-steroids, supplements that puff your muscles out to look bigger, and even a "cutting" gel applied to the skin to burn away excess fat in that specific area (illegal in the US now).

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Ninja-Hippo

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#4 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts

You would be surprised at how fast you can grow muscle with alot of these very expensive but legal supplements that a non-bodybuilder/weightlifter would have never heard of. You have to keep in mind that The Rock and Mark Wahlberg are obviously VERY motivated people and they probably worked out several hours a day for months prior to this movie. Several actors have gone through rather radical body changes in a short period of time (Christian Bale started production on the first Batman movie after portraying an anorexic in The Machinist a few months earlier).

I've been a fairly regular weightlifter for years, but I only take protein. If you look in the muscle magazines there are all kinds of legal pseudo-steroids, supplements that puff your muscles out to look bigger, and even a "cutting" gel applied to the skin to burn away excess fat in that specific area (illegal in the US now).

Boddicker

 

LL_094_jabroni.jpg

 

 

Um... yeah, he's on straight up test, probably tren too.

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MrPraline

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#5 MrPraline
Member since 2008 • 21351 Posts
Method acting always +1
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EatShanna

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#6 EatShanna
Member since 2008 • 875 Posts
The rock is definitely on roids. Marky Mark? Maybe. He's looking pretty thick but he's a small guy. Anyway, the people the characters are based on were roid monkeys, so really it's method acting. :) Not a fan of roids, I would never take them unless I had a medical reason to. I'd rather push my body to its natural limits then bask in my accomplishment.
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#7 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts
[QUOTE="EatShanna"]The rock is definitely on roids. Marky Mark? Maybe. He's looking pretty thick but he's a small guy. Anyway, the people the characters are based on were roid monkeys, so really it's method acting. :) Not a fan of roids, I would never take them unless I had a medical reason to. I'd rather push my body to its natural limits then bask in my accomplishment.

Marky mark is on the juice too, for the exact reason you said. He's a small guy. Small guys can't get that big. If you're 5'8 or less the most you're ever going to weigh is 175lbs and a normal bodyfat percentage. I'd guess he's pushing 190.
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EatShanna

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#8 EatShanna
Member since 2008 • 875 Posts
How much would a 6'2 guy like the rock weight with normal body fat? I thought MM looked bigger in the trailer, but I remember seeing behind the scenes pictures and he looked lighter. I think he bulked up some and they're using movie magic to make him look heavier.
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LordQuorthon

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#9 LordQuorthon
Member since 2008 • 5803 Posts

Hopefully, we can get some kind of organization to clean Hollywood from all that filth. How are Danny DeVito and Jack Nicholson supposed to win Hollywood when other actors are doing steroids? It's unfair! 

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DeadMan1290

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#10 DeadMan1290
Member since 2005 • 15579 Posts

[QUOTE="Boddicker"]

You would be surprised at how fast you can grow muscle with alot of these very expensive but legal supplements that a non-bodybuilder/weightlifter would have never heard of. You have to keep in mind that The Rock and Mark Wahlberg are obviously VERY motivated people and they probably worked out several hours a day for months prior to this movie. Several actors have gone through rather radical body changes in a short period of time (Christian Bale started production on the first Batman movie after portraying an anorexic in The Machinist a few months earlier).

I've been a fairly regular weightlifter for years, but I only take protein. If you look in the muscle magazines there are all kinds of legal pseudo-steroids, supplements that puff your muscles out to look bigger, and even a "cutting" gel applied to the skin to burn away excess fat in that specific area (illegal in the US now).

Ninja-Hippo

 

LL_094_jabroni.jpg

 

 

Um... yeah, he's on straight up test, probably tren too.

:lol: Yeah, just comparing Dwayne back in 2002 'till now, the change is... Noticeable.
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#11 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts
How much would a 6'2 guy like the rock weight with normal body fat? I thought MM looked bigger in the trailer, but I remember seeing behind the scenes pictures and he looked lighter. I think he bulked up some and they're using movie magic to make him look heavier. EatShanna
At single-digit bodyfat, which is what he's at now, an absolute max of 210lbs. A little more reasonable bodyfat and you could push 220, tops.
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BluRayHiDef

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#12 BluRayHiDef
Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

[QUOTE="EatShanna"]The rock is definitely on roids. Marky Mark? Maybe. He's looking pretty thick but he's a small guy. Anyway, the people the characters are based on were roid monkeys, so really it's method acting. :) Not a fan of roids, I would never take them unless I had a medical reason to. I'd rather push my body to its natural limits then bask in my accomplishment. Ninja-Hippo
Marky mark is on the juice too, for the exact reason you said. He's a small guy. Small guys can't get that big. If you're 5'8 or less the most you're ever going to weigh is 175lbs and a normal bodyfat percentage. I'd guess he's pushing 190.

You don't think a person who's 5'7" or 5'8" can weigh 175 LBs with a really low bodyfat percentage (<5% or <10%)?

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EatShanna

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#13 EatShanna
Member since 2008 • 875 Posts

I happen to be around the same height as him, and I was wondering how heavy I can be at two-digit body fat, not ripped or shredded, just average without steroids.

The Rock that is, not Marky Mark. 

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#14 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts

I happen to be around the same height as him, and I was wondering how heavy I can be at two-digit body fat, not ripped or shredded, just average without steroids.

The Rock that is, not Marky Mark. 

EatShanna
If you're 6'2" you can shoot for between 215-225lbs at 10-12% bodyfat. Once you hit that you'd find it more or less impossible to gain any more mass without it just being fat. In terms of muscle gain, you'd be talking less than two or three pounds a year at that point. Otherwise known as 'genetic natural potential.' If you wanted to gain more, time to jump on the juice.
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#15 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts

You don't think a person who's 5'7" or 5'8" can weigh 175 LBs with a really low bodyfat percentage (<5% or <10%)?

BluRayHiDef
Less than 5% is like bodybuilder contest condition. You cant maintain that year-round. At 8-12% bodyfat 175lbs is hovering around the genetic limit for people of that height. Obviously there's genetic variation, but anyone significantly heavier than 180lbs at a low bodyfat who is 5'8 or less is on dat juice.
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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#16 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

Who gives a fvck? Steroids or no steroids you need A LOT of work ethic to even achieve something. You'd be surprised how many athletes, bodybuilders, and actors use PEDs.

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#17 EatShanna
Member since 2008 • 875 Posts
Nah, no juice for me, 215-225 is what I was hoping would be possible.
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#18 BluRayHiDef
Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

You don't think a person who's 5'7" or 5'8" can weigh 175 LBs with a really low bodyfat percentage (<5% or <10%)?

Ninja-Hippo

Less than 5% is like bodybuilder contest condition. You cant maintain that year-round. At 8-12% bodyfat 175lbs is hovering around the genetic limit for people of that height. Obviously there's genetic variation, but anyone significantly heavier than 180lbs at a low bodyfat who is 5'8 or less is on dat juice.

 

Based on this picture, how much body-fat do you think I have? Don't mind the toothpaste stain on the mirror. :P

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sonofsmeagle

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#19 sonofsmeagle
Member since 2010 • 4317 Posts

People in this thread seem to have a very narrow minded approach to what is and isnt possible for someones body build,

So a guy is 5'8'' therefore he will never weigh more than 175 without steroids, if you think that then i'm afraid you are either delusional or just not very experienced in this subject.

So let me explain some stuff about body builds and weight here,

There are 3 types of extreme body build

Ectomorph - Will have them smallest bone structure of all, fast metabolism, dificulty gaining weight, usually long limbed with lean muscles and probably the weakest of all the bodybuilds. (i fall into this)

Mesomorph - Usually has the same ease of getting very cut and lean as the ecto, however will have a much larger bone structure and will be able to put on muscle and fat very easily but able to burn fat very fast if wanting to, these bodybuilds will usually have very naturaly large muscular shoulders.

Endomorph - Essentially the fat man, largest bone structure of all, body will put on weight very easily and lose it very had especially fat, you can tell who is a true endomorph by usually looking at their legs since they will usually have very large thighs and big calves (big calves not muscular looking), however this is the extreme of the bodybuild.

Ok so you have all of these bodybuilds, not everyone will fall into the above as we will mostly get people that fall in between a category of them, eg, a long and lean ectomorph that can put on muscle alot easier than a true one so he'd be a, Ecto-Meso, so a man with the bone structure of an ectomrph but the traits of a mesomorph.

Heres some examples

Heres an ectomorph who is in prime physical condition, his name is Georges St Pierre, the UFC WW Champion, you could say hes on steroids but from my experience i'd say the most hes on is HGH which a perfectly legal product that will help with ones recovery abilities,

ufc-quick-quote-firas-zihabi-says-george

He is listed at 5'10'' in height and weighing in at 170 pounds,

However from many sources and people that have met him including some of his training partners say he is little more than 5'9'' and you shouldnt go by the UFC stats since they still list Dan Henderson as 6'1''.

He weighs in at 170 but as all fight fans would know, fighters go through a process of cutting weight a couple weeks before a fight and then rehydrate themselves after the weigh in, to the point where if you want a 170 pound figher you need to go looking for one at 145 or 155.

George actually weighs between 190-195 pounds before he dehydrates and he doesnt walk around at this weight with about 15 BF% like most fighters do before a training camp, he is in shape all year round and about 7% BF the whole time.

 

Right now heres a mesomorph, Rashad Evans, a man fighting in the UFC LHW division or 205 pounds

1628_1.jpg

Rashad is no more than about 5'10'' - 5'11'' which he himself and friends have said that hes pretty short for LHW, he weighs in at 205 pounds but when he starts his cut it is from about 230 pounds and about 15%-20% BF, but by fight night his BF will be as low as 10%

And he has been this same weight his entire career, just from looking at him you can see he has a much larger bodybuild naturally than GSP and yet he is only an inch or two taller than him.

 

Now heres an endomorph,

fedi.jpg

 

Fedor during the prime of his career was always about 5'11 - 6ft and weighed around 235-240 and his abdominals were NEVER visible, so i'm guesing he about 20-25% BF, Fedor wasnt an extreme Endo but hes a good example of one.

I used MMA fighters as because of my knowledge of MMA from watching and reading about the sport for over a decade now i know alot about fighters weight.

 

 

So with that i hope to have informed you guys about weight and body types abit, so hopefully you guys wont be able to see it being too hard for a guy like Mark Wahlberg who is are perfect Mesomorph to be weighing over 175 and cut.

Theres a reason combat sports dont divide people into height classes they divide them into weight classes because everybody's body build can hold abit more or abit less than the next guy the same height and in some cases there will be huge differences.

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#20 sonofsmeagle
Member since 2010 • 4317 Posts

Also i just want to say that i'm not saying that these guys are NOT on steroids,

I'm just trying to broaden your minds and understand that some people can make weights naturally that others need steroids too because of their body types.

But the Rock does look abit "funky" with that serious weight change considering he looks more muscular and cut now than what he did during his physical prime

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#23 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

You don't think a person who's 5'7" or 5'8" can weigh 175 LBs with a really low bodyfat percentage (<5% or <10%)?

BluRayHiDef

Less than 5% is like bodybuilder contest condition. You cant maintain that year-round. At 8-12% bodyfat 175lbs is hovering around the genetic limit for people of that height. Obviously there's genetic variation, but anyone significantly heavier than 180lbs at a low bodyfat who is 5'8 or less is on dat juice.

 

Based on this picture, how much body-fat do you think I have? Don't mind the toothpaste stain on the mirror. :P

About 10-12%.
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#24 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts

There are 3 types of extreme body build

Ectomorph - Will have them smallest bone structure of all, fast metabolism, dificulty gaining weight, usually long limbed with lean muscles and probably the weakest of all the bodybuilds. (i fall into this)

Mesomorph - Usually has the same ease of getting very cut and lean as the ecto, however will have a much larger bone structure and will be able to put on muscle and fat very easily but able to burn fat very fast if wanting to, these bodybuilds will usually have very naturaly large muscular shoulders.

Endomorph - Essentially the fat man, largest bone structure of all, body will put on weight very easily and lose it very had especially fat, you can tell who is a true endomorph by usually looking at their legs since they will usually have very large thighs and big calves (big calves not muscular looking), however this is the extreme of the bodybuild.

 

sonofsmeagle

 

Welcome to 1992, today I will be teaching you about cutting edge science...

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#25 sonofsmeagle
Member since 2010 • 4317 Posts

[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"]

There are 3 types of extreme body build

Ectomorph - Will have them smallest bone structure of all, fast metabolism, dificulty gaining weight, usually long limbed with lean muscles and probably the weakest of all the bodybuilds. (i fall into this)

Mesomorph - Usually has the same ease of getting very cut and lean as the ecto, however will have a much larger bone structure and will be able to put on muscle and fat very easily but able to burn fat very fast if wanting to, these bodybuilds will usually have very naturaly large muscular shoulders.

Endomorph - Essentially the fat man, largest bone structure of all, body will put on weight very easily and lose it very had especially fat, you can tell who is a true endomorph by usually looking at their legs since they will usually have very large thighs and big calves (big calves not muscular looking), however this is the extreme of the bodybuild.

 

Ninja-Hippo

 

Welcome to 1992, today I will be teaching you about cutting edge science...

Oh so you knew about this and still decided to make illogical posts, So you're not just ignorant on the matter but completely idiotic aswell
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#26 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts

you could say hes on steroids but from my experience i'd say the most hes on is HGH which a perfectly legal product that will help with ones recovery abilities,

sonofsmeagle

 

:lol: My sides....

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#27 BluRayHiDef
Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] Less than 5% is like bodybuilder contest condition. You cant maintain that year-round. At 8-12% bodyfat 175lbs is hovering around the genetic limit for people of that height. Obviously there's genetic variation, but anyone significantly heavier than 180lbs at a low bodyfat who is 5'8 or less is on dat juice. Ninja-Hippo

 

Based on this picture, how much body-fat do you think I have? Don't mind the toothpaste stain on the mirror. :P

About 10-12%.

Is that good? Also, how much do I look like I weigh?

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#28 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts
[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"] Oh so you knew about this and still decided to make illogical posts, So you're not just ignorant on the matter but completely idiotic aswell

Nah bro, it was a sarcastic douchey way of explaining to you that you're about twenty years behind in terms of science. Endo, ecto and meso are just terms used to describe a person's appearance now. The whole 'you are genetically one of these three body types' is a complete myth and hasn't been taught in physiology for at least ten years. A mesomorph who loses 50lbs magically becomes an ectomorph. Surely that sets your BS alarm off? Scientific fact: A person at 5'8 and low bodyfat percentage will not be able to gain more than 175-185lbs over their life time in dry muscle mass, without the assistance of steroids. 175lbs is the 'genetic natural potential' for a person of that height. That is not an opinion, it's scientific fact.
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sonofsmeagle

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#29 sonofsmeagle
Member since 2010 • 4317 Posts

[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"]you could say hes on steroids but from my experience i'd say the most hes on is HGH which a perfectly legal product that will help with ones recovery abilities,

Ninja-Hippo

 

:lol: My sides....

Still offering no logical arguement i see, Just admit you're a complete moron on this subject and leave
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#30 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"] 

Based on this picture, how much body-fat do you think I have? Don't mind the toothpaste stain on the mirror. :P

BluRayHiDef

About 10-12%.

Is that good? Also, how much do I look like I weigh?

I have no idea how much you weigh man, depends on your height and even then I wouldn't want to guess because I'd just be pulling a number out of my ass. 10-12% is fine, especially in this day and age were the average person is fat or skinnyfat. 10-12% is the epitome of a normal, healthy bodyfat percentage.
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#31 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]

[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"]you could say hes on steroids but from my experience i'd say the most hes on is HGH which a perfectly legal product that will help with ones recovery abilities,

sonofsmeagle

 

:lol: My sides....

Still offering no logical arguement i see, Just admit you're a complete moron on this subject and leave

Human growth hormone isn't a steroid, and it's a perfectly legal product which helps with muscle recovery? FO REAL? Can you tell me where I can buy some?
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#32 sonofsmeagle
Member since 2010 • 4317 Posts
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"] Oh so you knew about this and still decided to make illogical posts, So you're not just ignorant on the matter but completely idiotic aswell

Nah bro, it was a sarcastic douchey way of explaining to you that you're about twenty years behind in terms of science. Endo, ecto and meso are just terms used to describe a person's appearance now. The whole 'you are genetically one of these three body types' is a complete myth and hasn't been taught in physiology for at least ten years. A mesomorph who loses 50lbs magically becomes an ectomorph. Surely that sets your BS alarm off? Scientific fact: A person at 5'8 and low bodyfat percentage will not be able to gain more than 175-185lbs over their life time in dry muscle mass, without the assistance of steroids. 175lbs is the 'genetic natural potential' for a person of that height. That is not an opinion, it's scientific fact.

I seriously cant believe how ignorantly stupid you are, Thats like saying newtons laws of physics are too old therefore outdated and completely wrong, You are still trying to say that someones natural ability to gain weight is determined by not what size bone structure they have but rather how tall they are
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Optical_Order

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#33 Optical_Order
Member since 2008 • 5100 Posts

The rock is quite obviously on steroids. 

Probably Mark too, but it doesn't seem as obvious. 

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#34 sonofsmeagle
Member since 2010 • 4317 Posts
[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]

 

:lol: My sides....

Ninja-Hippo
Still offering no logical arguement i see, Just admit you're a complete moron on this subject and leave

Human growth hormone isn't a steroid, and it's a perfectly legal product which helps with muscle recovery? FO REAL? Can you tell me where I can buy some?

You show me a law that states that HGH is an illegal supplement, The government run athletic commissions of the USA do not test for HGH supplements and do not condone their use
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#35 BluRayHiDef
Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] About 10-12%. Ninja-Hippo

Is that good? Also, how much do I look like I weigh?

I have no idea how much you weigh man, depends on your height and even then I wouldn't want to guess because I'd just be pulling a number out of my ass. 10-12% is fine, especially in this day and age were the average person is fat or skinnyfat. 10-12% is the epitome of a normal, healthy bodyfat percentage.

I just wanted to see of you could guess. I'm 5'7" tall and weigh 150 LBs with clothes on (so about 146 LBs with clothes off). 

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#36 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts
[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"] Oh so you knew about this and still decided to make illogical posts, So you're not just ignorant on the matter but completely idiotic aswell

Nah bro, it was a sarcastic douchey way of explaining to you that you're about twenty years behind in terms of science. Endo, ecto and meso are just terms used to describe a person's appearance now. The whole 'you are genetically one of these three body types' is a complete myth and hasn't been taught in physiology for at least ten years. A mesomorph who loses 50lbs magically becomes an ectomorph. Surely that sets your BS alarm off? Scientific fact: A person at 5'8 and low bodyfat percentage will not be able to gain more than 175-185lbs over their life time in dry muscle mass, without the assistance of steroids. 175lbs is the 'genetic natural potential' for a person of that height. That is not an opinion, it's scientific fact.

I seriously cant believe how ignorantly stupid you are, Thats like saying newtons laws of physics are too old therefore outdated and completely wrong, You are still trying to say that someones natural ability to gain weight is determined by not what size bone structure they have but rather how tall they are

No dude, I didn't say those things are wrong because they're old, I said they're old because they're wrong. Old physics lessons are still taught today because they're still correct. Endo, ecto and meso were abandoned years ago because it's bad science. It's complete nonsense. Again, a person is genetically fat? Are you really believing this? If i'm an ectomorph and I work out for ten years and pack on a whole bunch of muscle, wouldn't I then be a mesomorph? If you can just jump between all three depending on how you eat and train at any given time, surely the whole concept is BS? Of course it is. That's why it's not taught any more. I'm not arguing with you or insulting you, I'm telling you how it is. There is no such thing as a person who gains muscle really easily or a person who is naturally fat. There is genetic variation, but it's slight. Unless you have a medical disorder, a pound of fat is 3,500kcal to you exactly as it is to everyone else. Laws of thermodynamics, man. Bottom line - the maximum weight of dry muscle mass a person can obtain is limited by their height. The taller you are, the heavier you can get. It's all proportional. For a person who is 5'8", the genetic limit is around 175-180lbs in total body weight, assuming a low bodyfat. Add on a bunch of fat to your frame and obviously you'll be heavier. More than that requires the use of steroids.
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Ninja-Hippo

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#37 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"] Still offering no logical arguement i see, Just admit you're a complete moron on this subject and leavesonofsmeagle
Human growth hormone isn't a steroid, and it's a perfectly legal product which helps with muscle recovery? FO REAL? Can you tell me where I can buy some?

You show me a law that states that HGH is an illegal supplement, The government run athletic commissions of the USA do not test for HGH supplements and do not condone their use

Even referring to human growth hormone as a 'supplement' is the dumbest thing I've read in weeks. And I read things on the INTERNET.

 

In terms of it being illegal, it's banned in literally all pro sports. It's one of the things Lance Armstrong just admitted to using, illegally:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/24/lance-armstrong-stripped-tour-de-france

 

Also, it's banned in the united states unless prescribed by a doctor for treatment of serious muscle wasting diseases:

http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title4/civ00019.htm

Or here's a nice general read about it for you. Note the word ILLEGAL:

http://www.hghmeds.org/is-hgh-legal/ 

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BluRayHiDef

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#38 BluRayHiDef
Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] Human growth hormone isn't a steroid, and it's a perfectly legal product which helps with muscle recovery? FO REAL? Can you tell me where I can buy some? Ninja-Hippo
You show me a law that states that HGH is an illegal supplement, The government run athletic commissions of the USA do not test for HGH supplements and do not condone their use

Even referring to human growth hormone as a 'supplement' is the dumbest thing I've read in weeks. And I read things on the INTERNET.

LOL. :lol:

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sonofsmeagle

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#39 sonofsmeagle
Member since 2010 • 4317 Posts
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] Nah bro, it was a sarcastic douchey way of explaining to you that you're about twenty years behind in terms of science. Endo, ecto and meso are just terms used to describe a person's appearance now. The whole 'you are genetically one of these three body types' is a complete myth and hasn't been taught in physiology for at least ten years. A mesomorph who loses 50lbs magically becomes an ectomorph. Surely that sets your BS alarm off? Scientific fact: A person at 5'8 and low bodyfat percentage will not be able to gain more than 175-185lbs over their life time in dry muscle mass, without the assistance of steroids. 175lbs is the 'genetic natural potential' for a person of that height. That is not an opinion, it's scientific fact.

I seriously cant believe how ignorantly stupid you are, Thats like saying newtons laws of physics are too old therefore outdated and completely wrong, You are still trying to say that someones natural ability to gain weight is determined by not what size bone structure they have but rather how tall they are

No dude, I didn't say those things are wrong because they're old, I said they're old because they're wrong. Old physics lessons are still taught today because they're still correct. Endo, ecto and meso were abandoned years ago because it's bad science. It's complete nonsense. Again, a person is genetically fat? Are you really believing this? If i'm an ectomorph and I work out for ten years and pack on a whole bunch of muscle, wouldn't I then be a mesomorph? If you can just jump between all three depending on how you eat and train at any given time, surely the whole concept is BS? Of course it is. That's why it's not taught any more. I'm not arguing with you or insulting you, I'm telling you how it is. There is no such thing as a person who gains muscle really easily or a person who is naturally fat. There is genetic variation, but it's slight. Unless you have a medical disorder, a pound of fat is 3,500kcal to you exactly as it is to everyone else. Laws of thermodynamics, man. Bottom line - the maximum weight of dry muscle mass a person can obtain is limited by their height. The taller you are, the heavier you can get. It's all proportional. For a person who is 5'8", the genetic limit is around 175-180lbs in total body weight, assuming a low bodyfat. Add on a bunch of fat to your frame and obviously you'll be heavier. More than that requires the use of steroids.

Ok i thank you for using more logic in this argument but i'm afraid you still are wrong, Just because you put on weight it doesnt automatically make you a different body type, Why is it some people put on muscle and fat much easier than others? Why do some people have the ability to stay lean and cut while eating like a pig and other struggle to lose weight even when eating less? Its genetics, some people just have different genetics that determine what their natural body build is, By putting on a bunch of muscle of ten years from being a skinny man doesnt make you a mesomorph it just makes you a built ectomorph the one thing that you keep missing out is how some peoples bone structures are much thicker and wider than others, some people can be the same height and one have naturally broad shoulders and larger bones in their arms and legs while the other has thinner bones and a shorter torso but has longer arms and legs. The fact is you cant place a natural genetic limit on peoples bodies if your only indicator is height, you have to include bone structure and metabolism and other genetics. I said it before but theres a reason combat sports like boxing, kickboxing, mma, judo, wrestling etc is broken up into weight classes and not height classes because they realised something you cant seem to believe and that is that everyones bodies are naturally different and cant all be grouped together on each others limitations because of their height.
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#40 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts

Ok i thank you for using more logic in this argument but i'm afraid you still are wrong, Just because you put on weight it doesnt automatically make you a different body type, Why is it some people put on muscle and fat much easier than others? Why do some people have the ability to stay lean and cut while eating like a pig and other struggle to lose weight even when eating less? Its genetics, some people just have different genetics that determine what their natural body build is, By putting on a bunch of muscle of ten years from being a skinny man doesnt make you a mesomorph it just makes you a built ectomorph the one thing that you keep missing out is how some peoples bone structures are much thicker and wider than others, some people can be the same height and one have naturally broad shoulders and larger bones in their arms and legs while the other has thinner bones and a shorter torso but has longer arms and legs. The fact is you cant place a natural genetic limit on peoples bodies if your only indicator is height, you have to include bone structure and metabolism and other genetics. I said it before but theres a reason combat sports like boxing, kickboxing, mma, judo, wrestling etc is broken up into weight classes and not height classes because they realised something you cant seem to believe and that is that everyones bodies are naturally different and cant all be grouped together on each others limitations because of their height.sonofsmeagle

If an ectomorph is a skinny person, and an endomorph is a fat person, couldn't an ectomorph just eat nothing but lard and bacon for a year, gain 200lbs and BOOM - now they're an endomorph?

Yes, yes they could. If you pack on a whole bunch of muscle and have a very athletic apperance, aren't you now by definition a mesomorph? Of course you are. Know why? Because the whole science of 'body types' is **** bro. Ask literally anybody who has studied the topic in the least ten years or more.

Now for your next question, 'why is it some people put on muscle and fat much easier than others.' Answer; nonsense. Literally doesn't happen. Again, unless we're talking a freak medical illness, everyone puts on weight and loses weight the exact same way; calories in vs calories out. There are plenty of anecdotal examples of individuals who promise they ate a very strict diet and didn't lose a pound - but not one single study in existance shows any significant variation whatsoever in the amount of fat lost by people all eating a controlled diet of a 500kcal deficit.


3500kcal = 1 pound of fat. Burn 3500kcal a week more than you take in and you will lose 1 pound, give or take things like water weight, muscle catabolism etc.

Staying lean and cut while eating like a pig is a complete and utter myth. That person doesn't eat as much as you think they do, or they work out more than they show. Too many people think 'oh wow you ate mcdonalds AND a chocolate bar how are you so thin!?' when both things probably equal less than 1000kcal, which is nothing.

Finally, just to shut you up because with all due respect you honestly don't know what the hell you're talking about and nothing is more irritating than ignorance and arrogance combined:-

I managed to find an old fitness site which offers a calculator of the maximum genetic limit of muscle gain. All it asks for is your height. Let's put in 5'8 and see what happens:

http://scoobysworkshop.com/muscle-gain-calculator/


At single digit body fat - 175lbs. Not to brag, but hey, isn't that literally exactly what I said in the first place?

 
So in sumation; 'you cant put limits on people based on their height.' Yes, yes you can. It's called science. A 5'8 male will never weight 200lbs naturally with a low bodyfat percentage. Not physically possible. Move on with your life.

 

And finally, the reason combat sports are grouped into weight and not height is because your weight directly correlates to your ability to produce force. It's completely irrelevant to this argument. I don't think even you know what you're saying.

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#41 sonofsmeagle
Member since 2010 • 4317 Posts

[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] Human growth hormone isn't a steroid, and it's a perfectly legal product which helps with muscle recovery? FO REAL? Can you tell me where I can buy some? Ninja-Hippo

You show me a law that states that HGH is an illegal supplement, The government run athletic commissions of the USA do not test for HGH supplements and do not condone their use

Even referring to human growth hormone as a 'supplement' is the dumbest thing I've read in weeks. And I read things on the INTERNET.

 

In terms of it being illegal, it's banned in literally all pro sports. It's one of the things Lance Armstrong just admitted to using, illegally:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/24/lance-armstrong-stripped-tour-de-france

 

Also, it's banned in the united states unless prescribed by a doctor for treatment of serious muscle wasting diseases:

http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title4/civ00019.htm

Or here's a nice general read about it for you. Note the word ILLEGAL:

http://www.hghmeds.org/is-hgh-legal/ 

And yet it isnt tested for by the combat sports athletic commissions of the USA, California etc You'd think that in combat sports where size and weight can make the most difference that something like HGH would be tested for?
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#42 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts
[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"] And yet it isnt tested for by the combat sports athletic commissions of the USA, California etc You'd think that in combat sports where size and weight can make the most difference that something like HGH would be tested for?

The correct answer was 'boy, i was completely wrong! my bad!' The NFL tests for it. Boxing tests for it. Cycling tests for it. The olympics test for it. Soccer tests for it. Swimming tests for it. *everything* tests for it. Why doesn't the UFC and other MMA sporting bodies not test for it? Probably because they realize their entire base of participants is on it and that'd be problematic.
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#43 EatShanna
Member since 2008 • 875 Posts
Just a quick question, what BF% is Christian Bale during this scene at the League of Shadows HQ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CtELscqDWxE#t=453s ? That's sorta what I'm aiming at, not ripped/shredded/whatever, but not fat either.
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#44 kingkong0124
Member since 2012 • 8329 Posts

Ninja-Hippo

welcome back, scouse c***

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cyborg100000

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#45 cyborg100000
Member since 2005 • 2905 Posts

I think Rock's on steroids, never seen a natural bodybuilder close to that size. Not sure about Marc, but I know you can get a bit larger than even him naturally.

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#46 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts

Just a quick question, what BF% is Christian Bale during this scene at the League of Shadows HQ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CtELscqDWxE#t=453s ? That's sorta what I'm aiming at, not ripped/shredded/whatever, but not fat either. EatShanna
About 15%. Your goal is basically bear mode. Bear mode is best mode.

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BluRayHiDef

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#47 BluRayHiDef
Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

[QUOTE="EatShanna"]Just a quick question, what BF% is Christian Bale during this scene at the League of Shadows HQ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CtELscqDWxE#t=453s ? That's sorta what I'm aiming at, not ripped/shredded/whatever, but not fat either. Ninja-Hippo

About 15%. Your goal is basically bear mode. Bear mode is best mode.

Why is bear mode best mode?

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Ninja-Hippo

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#48 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]

[QUOTE="EatShanna"]Just a quick question, what BF% is Christian Bale during this scene at the League of Shadows HQ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CtELscqDWxE#t=453s ? That's sorta what I'm aiming at, not ripped/shredded/whatever, but not fat either. BluRayHiDef

About 15%. Your goal is basically bear mode. Bear mode is best mode.

Why is bear mode best mode?

I'm just kidding, do whatever you wanna do. I just personally find bear mode to be a manly pursuit. It does not concern itself with dieting and defined abs, but only with lifting heavy things up and putting them back down.
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EatShanna

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#49 EatShanna
Member since 2008 • 875 Posts
^Pretty much this. Strong and muscled, but not fitness model lean or anything. I do mainly compound lifts with some auxiliary work thrown in, keeping the heavies in the 5 rep range, and aux in 8.
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#50 BluRayHiDef
Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] About 15%. Your goal is basically bear mode. Bear mode is best mode.

Ninja-Hippo

Why is bear mode best mode?

I'm just kidding, do whatever you wanna do. I just personally find bear mode to be a manly pursuit. It does not concern itself with dieting and defined abs, but only with lifting heavy things up and putting them back down.

 

What do you think of these guys? Also, what do you think of Tom Hardy's Physique as Bane in TDKR?