Official Avengers: Endgame Discussion Thread - THERE BE SPOILERS HERE!

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#1 Edited by Hallenbeck77 (15709 posts) -

After 22 films, one of the biggest storylines in film history is about to come to a close when Avengers: Endgame opens in the US this Thursday night. Are you excited to see how it all ends? Are you sick of all of these damn MCU movies? Are you wondering if you should see a doctor because that nasty looking scab on your skin looks infected as hell? This is the thread for that. (For the movie, not the skin thing).

Obviously....KEEP. ALL. SPOILER. TALK. HERE! Anyone posting spoilers elsewhere runs the risk of everyone calling you an A-hole, as well as a 3-day suspension at the minimum.

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#2 Edited by carljohnsonCJ (386 posts) -

Tony Stark dies.Sorry couldn't control Hallenbeck77.Am i a A Hole in your eyes now?😛

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#3 Posted by Hallenbeck77 (15709 posts) -
@carljohnsoncj said:

Tony Stark dies.Sorry couldn't control Hallenbeck77.Am i a A Hole in your eyes now?😛

Would you like to be? 😊

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#4 Posted by ad1x2 (7406 posts) -

I expected everyone to come back just because I remember the comic book, although the comic had Nebula bring everyone back and reverse time so it was like the damage Thanos done never happened and it involved some characters Disney didn’t have the rights to at the time the movie was filmed. I had a feeling they would have killed off Iron Man and I wasn’t surprised about Captain America (America’s Ass) deciding to stay in the past so he could marry Peggy Carter.

Since they bought everyone back in the present instead of reversing time so it never happened, it makes me wonder how the world will react with everyone back but still having the memory of them disappearing. Depending upon when in the timeline Far From Home takes place, maybe that may give a small answer. Another big thing is what happened to Loki after he stole the Tesseract and vanished in the past. I’m also wondering if Thor will get introduced to Jenny Craig while flying around with the Guardians.

Overall, I thought the movie was pretty good.

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#5 Edited by Migina (56 posts) -

6/10, "A great ending, to a rather dull first two acts."

+ positive

  • The last hour is a lot of fun
  • Great CGI
  • A great ending for this Marvel franchise

- Negatives

  • First two hours felt boring
  • Overly melodramatic
  • The pacing was all over the place, messy

I honestly, was very disappointed. Infinity War for me was mind-blowing, probably my second favourite comic book film after The Dark Knight. But this one was a bit boring for me, except the last hour. Had they cut the runtime and taken away a lot of the crying (seriously, too much crying). I think the pacing would have been great.

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#6 Edited by speedytimsi (931 posts) -

Hail Hydra!

~Capt

I thought the one on the poster that kinda got screwed over the role was Okoye. She hardly had a role like the other counterparts in the first two hours.

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#8 Posted by jaydan (2211 posts) -

I just got back from the movie and I am absolutely blown away in every sense of the word. Marvel really delivered here with this amazing finale. This might just be the most epic superhero movie ever created and I don't see it getting topped for a long time.

It feels like a true and genuine ending to an era of filmmaking. The MCU has only been here for 10 years but after watching Endgame it really feels like we've known these characters for so long.

I think the greatest surprise is Endgame takes a lot more out of the drama playbook and is not entirely just a series of action sequences. While I know to some there might be dismay over there being fewer action sequences, we really get to spend time with these characters and the drama that the snap brought into their lives. There's truly epic action sequences here too but there's a lot about the drama that's very effective too.

While I love Infinity War, it was more flawed in execution. Infinity War jumped around a lot and characters got next to no development. Infinity War is fine when you see it's really Thanos that's the main character, but in Endgame I feel like the storytelling was much more fluid and focus went back on the Avengers characters and they really got to shine.

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#9 Posted by jaydan (2211 posts) -

@migina said:

6/10, "A great ending, to a rather dull first two acts."

+ positive

  • The last hour is a lot of fun
  • Great CGI
  • A great ending for this Marvel franchise

- Negatives

  • First two hours felt boring
  • Overly melodramatic
  • The pacing was all over the place, messy

I honestly, was very disappointed. Infinity War for me was mind-blowing, probably my second favourite comic book film after The Dark Knight. But this one was a bit boring for me, except the last hour. Had they cut the runtime and taken away a lot of the crying (seriously, too much crying). I think the pacing would have been great.

I'm the opposite. Maybe you just wanted a pure action flick. I felt like the pacing was fantastic and better than Infinity War. Endgame takes a lot more out of the drama book but I don't think that's a bad thing at all and more a service for the movie. I loved how the film built up its momentum that leads up to the epic final parts of the film. You gotta understand post-snap all the characters were destroyed in their own ways, and most of them completely accepted their defeat and that there was no possible way to fix things. So they go from that to learning it might be possible to fix things to assembling their odds to the epic conclusion. It had a very steady buildup with great momentum.

I do love Infinity War for different reasons, but its pacing is choppy to say the least. The Russo's were definitely right when they said infinity War and Endgame will feel distinctively different from one another. While both are connected by the story, both have very different tones. I think that is for the best because we'll see a good balance of fans between the two.

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#10 Posted by Migina (56 posts) -

@jaydan said:
@migina said:

6/10, "A great ending, to a rather dull first two acts."

+ positive

  • The last hour is a lot of fun
  • Great CGI
  • A great ending for this Marvel franchise

- Negatives

  • First two hours felt boring
  • Overly melodramatic
  • The pacing was all over the place, messy

I honestly, was very disappointed. Infinity War for me was mind-blowing, probably my second favourite comic book film after The Dark Knight. But this one was a bit boring for me, except the last hour. Had they cut the runtime and taken away a lot of the crying (seriously, too much crying). I think the pacing would have been great.

I'm the opposite. Maybe you just wanted a pure action flick. I felt like the pacing was fantastic and better than Infinity War. Endgame takes a lot more out of the drama book but I don't think that's a bad thing at all and more a service for the movie. I loved how the film built up its momentum that leads up to the epic final parts of the film. You gotta understand post-snap all the characters were destroyed in their own ways, and most of them completely accepted their defeat and that there was no possible way to fix things. So they go from that to learning it might be possible to fix things to assembling their odds to the epic conclusion. It had a very steady buildup with great momentum.

I do love Infinity War for different reasons, but its pacing is choppy to say the least. The Russo's were definitely right when they said infinity War and Endgame will feel distinctively different from one another. While both are connected by the story, both have very different tones. I think that is for the best because we'll see a good balance of fans between the two.

I'm one of those people that watched Mother, Phantom Thread, Roma... slow films and think they are among the best this decade. I'm very anti-action. However, when watching a superhero film, personally I like a mix of both. I simply didn't enjoy this level of drama, as it didn't appeal to me.

Again, this is my opinion. It's not popular as all my Facebook friends loved it, but you know... everyone's different.

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#11 Edited by jaydan (2211 posts) -
@migina said:
@jaydan said:
@migina said:

6/10, "A great ending, to a rather dull first two acts."

+ positive

  • The last hour is a lot of fun
  • Great CGI
  • A great ending for this Marvel franchise

- Negatives

  • First two hours felt boring
  • Overly melodramatic
  • The pacing was all over the place, messy

I honestly, was very disappointed. Infinity War for me was mind-blowing, probably my second favourite comic book film after The Dark Knight. But this one was a bit boring for me, except the last hour. Had they cut the runtime and taken away a lot of the crying (seriously, too much crying). I think the pacing would have been great.

I'm the opposite. Maybe you just wanted a pure action flick. I felt like the pacing was fantastic and better than Infinity War. Endgame takes a lot more out of the drama book but I don't think that's a bad thing at all and more a service for the movie. I loved how the film built up its momentum that leads up to the epic final parts of the film. You gotta understand post-snap all the characters were destroyed in their own ways, and most of them completely accepted their defeat and that there was no possible way to fix things. So they go from that to learning it might be possible to fix things to assembling their odds to the epic conclusion. It had a very steady buildup with great momentum.

I do love Infinity War for different reasons, but its pacing is choppy to say the least. The Russo's were definitely right when they said infinity War and Endgame will feel distinctively different from one another. While both are connected by the story, both have very different tones. I think that is for the best because we'll see a good balance of fans between the two.

I'm one of those people that watched Mother, Phantom Thread, Roma... slow films and think they are among the best this decade. I'm very anti-action. However, when watching a superhero film, personally I like a mix of both. I simply didn't enjoy this level of drama, as it didn't appeal to me.

Again, this is my opinion. It's not popular as all my Facebook friends loved it, but you know... everyone's different.

It is also my opinion. Not taking yours away; however, I think some of the best moments in the MCU are the quieter moments. The moments that show what makes a character really tick and how relationships develop or conflict with one another. In my opinion the best action sequences in any Marvel movie, or any movie for that matter - is with the context of drama that is built up around them. When you have just brainless action in a movie for the sake of action, then you have something closer to a Michael Bay film.

I found the pacing in Endgame to be quite excellent. Yes it starts out a bit slower with the drama but it was all interesting because you can't just expect these characters to act like they were not affected by losing their loved ones post-snap. Many of these characters just about accepted that they were defeated and that there was nothing more they can do than accept and move on. That was the ultimate struggle early on in the film that the characters faced. I thought the early scene where they faced Thanos and ultimately beheaded him was truly shocking because early on they thought that was how they would fix things but it only made the likeliness of things to change more grave.

Come around with Scott Lang escaping the Quantum Realm and speculations really begin to slide that maybe there is a way they can fix things. The next act of the film felt very heist-oriented, kinda like an Ant-Man film, but with the rest of the Avengers. To me that was a load of fun.

To be honest Endgame felt like a Spielberg-grade blockbuster film because the best of Spielberg blockbuster films also relish on the heart and drama before it builds up to the spectacle. Avengers Endgame is a perfect buildup of that kind of blockbuster formula.

The momentum felt so right to me because it was a gradual buildup of true momentum backed up by the quality of the character development that happened in the movie. By time we got to the truly jaw-dropping epic scenes in the later parts of the film, I'm glad it did not boil down to shorter action scenes compared to the rest of the film. I felt like there was plenty to shine through the entirety of the film and the later portion was just as satisfying to me as was the early sections, and yet each act of the film had tonal elevations.

It all just felt right and satisfying to me. I have grown to love Infinity War after multiple watches, but to be honest I did not have the same feelings of wonder upon the first time viewing it. I love the movie now but I did not love it initially. I have learned to accept its more choppy pacing structure when I saw Thanos as the true main character in that movie, but Endgame's pacing feels much more organic and sincere towards the stars within the Avengers.

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#12 Posted by BenjaminBanklin (4359 posts) -

It was okay. After the impact of Infinity War, this one felt like Back to the Future II for two hours with a big Marvel finale for the last hour. Complete with much winking and references. Differing from the comic where things are pretty much brought back to the status quo and instead just having everyone come to the future exactly how they left five years ago is gonna be a drag on future movies. Never mind that people's loved ones probably committed suicide and have likely died and changed for the worse. It's gonna be an anchor on future movies, and if it's not, ignoring it is going to feel like a tacky Marvel editorial gloss over.

Anyway, not really looking forward to "You've been gone for five years" to be the topic of dialogue for phase 4 of the Marvel flicks.

The movie still had some cool moments, and fat Thor is my new spirit animal. Good to see Epic was still around after the purge. All the Steam employees probably vanished at that time. I know the movie is supposed to have some emotional impact at the end with the deaths of Tony and Natasha, and having an aged Cap. But we just finished watching a movie about superpowered people and a raccoon time travel to get some magic space stones to fight a tyrant. All this is as reversible as the average Marvel comic. Depending on what the actors' clauses look like.

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#13 Edited by jaydan (2211 posts) -

@BenjaminBanklin said:

It was okay. After the impact of Infinity War, this one felt like Back to the Future II for two hours with a big Marvel finale for the last hour. Complete with much winking and references. Differing from the comic where things are pretty much brought back to the status quo and instead just having everyone come to the future exactly how they left five years ago is gonna be a drag on future movies. Never mind that people's loved ones probably committed suicide and have likely died and changed for the worse. It's gonna be an anchor on future movies, and if it's not, ignoring it is going to feel like a tacky Marvel editorial gloss over.

Anyway, not really looking forward to "You've been gone for five years" to be the topic of dialogue for phase 4 of the Marvel flicks.

The movie still had some cool moments, and fat Thor is my new spirit animal. Good to see Epic was still around after the purge. All the Steam employees probably vanished at that time. I know the movie is supposed to have some emotional impact at the end with the deaths of Tony and Natasha, and having an aged Cap. But we just finished watching a movie about superpowered people and a raccoon time travel to get some magic space stones to fight a tyrant. All this is as reversible as the average Marvel comic. Depending on what the actors' clauses look like.

Well of course the MCU is going to address many of these ripples in the future phases. That's pretty much the basis of the entire MCU. The first Avengers movie had many ripples that carried over to later movies. It directly affected Tony Stark's PTSD and movies like Spider-Man: Homecoming was the direct aftermath of the first Avengers. Civil War had significant ripples that spread across the MCU as did Age of Ultron. The ripple effects have become the very fabric of the MCU.

What's the issue with Endgame's newfound ripple effects we'll surely see explored in future phases? Too doom-and-gloom or something? It goes without question we'll surely see these themes and how they affected the universe going forward. Like so many things can come into play here. Some characters might have had their "end" in Endgame, but some of them feel more conveniently like the allowance for these actors to retire from their roles but have them kept open in case they ever chose to come back. For example: we can learn what kind of life Steve Rogers had in the past if Chris Evans ever wanted to come back for the role (maybe pull an Old Man Logan theme when Chris Evans is older and wants to have an Old Cap movie). We can possibly have a Doctor Strange movie and his end of the story helping all the dusted heroes navigate through the Soul Realm before they all entered for the big battle. We could have something about Loki because he fled with the Tesseract and never came back, so he's out there somewhere. And of course, that five year jump in time there is clearly so much room to explore in those areas.

I think one of the biggest things Endgame leaves the door open is celestial entities now know about this Earth planet after all these major disturbances that occurred on Earth involving the Infinity Stones.

Kevin Feige did already explain in a more recent interview that the next phases of the MCU will be distinctively different from what we got these past ten years, however he also said some of the narrative is likely to explore a lot of past events in time. While I feel like Endgame supremely satisfies and makes closure for the main story arc of the past ten years, it also leaves so many doors open for where stories can be taken next.

While Endgame proves characters can just come back easily, it at least sets up the logic and reason how some characters can come back (which other comic book movies don't really explain these things as well), but at the same time Endgame made it clear messing with time is not as easy to do. I think there will be more to time traveling than simply hitting the switch whenever things go awry and that there will be genuine consequences should heroes continually mess with it. Also while the movie claims it's time travel, what I see more is they ventured into alternate realities, different parallel universes. I feel like in future MCU movies characters will come to sense there's more about parallel realities than it is time travel.

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#14 Edited by Macutchi (6699 posts) -

6/10 from me. far too laboured and lengthy set up. whereas infinity war was non stop action from the start, endgame took forever to really get going and by the time it did, in the manner that it did, the big final battle was more formality than anything and from that point it was pretty clear what was going to happen. i left really quite disappointed tbh

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#18 Posted by DaVillain- (36100 posts) -

Oh boy where to start.

What a ride, have to start with the climax first. They really delivered on what fans want in the final battle. Cap wielding Mjolnir, everyone gathering and Cap says Avengers Assemble? Hell yeah, that was what I wanted all along for the finale and they delivered it! Tony's "I am Iron Man" moment was the perfect way to wrap this saga up. It comes full circle and oh man, his funeral was well done then Superman in Batman vs Superman. This coming from me who isn't even an Iron Man fan to begin with. The setup for this movie was great. The time heist was the perfect way to celebrate the past 10 years of the MCU and seeing them going back in time to the moments in past movies was brilliant and allowed for numerous callbacks and past characters returning. It really rewards those like us who have seen every movie before. Seeing how the characters have changed and evolved over time, most notably Nebula. Seeing the moments "behind the camera" so to speak such as the wrap up of the Battle of New York was great. That was the closest we would probably come to Hydra Cap and that was a brilliant and smart moment from Cap.

They had to bring Loki back somehow, and I guess his Disney+ show will expand on that. (along with the Bucky/Falcon show now that Falcon's set up as Cap) Professor Hulk was so smarmy in the best/worst way possible. This was a truly great send off to the Avengers saga. My only real issues are that they had to do dumb plot things to keep Thor and Strange from dominating the battlefield at the end, and to a lesser extent, Professor Hulk. I like Thor being "The Dude" in this one, and Thor being all serious doesn't work well but The Dude does and it pays off. Mad that Captain Marvel had little screen time but her new haircut was beautiful.

Time travel shenanigans didn't bother me though, I knew what they were talking about and follow it well then most people. All in all, this was truly fanservice and I'm not saying it in a bad way, anyone who's been following MCU movies for the past 11 years will know this was a truly good fanservice film and it paid off big time. 8/10 for Endgame & 9/10 for Infinity War.

(All I know for certain...is. I need me some Fat Thor action figures. I want one of him looking like a bum in his sweats and one of him in his time travel uniform and one of him in his armor all with his gut hanging out lol)

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#19 Posted by Horgen (120182 posts) -

The only thing I didn’t see coming was Natasha.

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#24 Posted by FireEmblem_Man (19583 posts) -

It was good, Cpatain Marvel felt shoe-horned in the movie as she didn't do much or explained how she found Tony Stark and Nebula adrift from space.

After all that, I felt that this has come to a close and will not bother watching anymore films after GotG Vol 3, Spiderman, and Dr. Strange 2. I'm done after this

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#25 Edited by jaydan (2211 posts) -

@davillain-: I feel like Infinity War and Endgame are proving to be very successful as "distinct" films from one another, as the creators intended them to be. I think we're going to see a good balance between those that prefer Infinity War and a good balance of those that prefer Endgame. It kinda beautiful considering it fits in with Thanos's philosophy of having everything perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

I'm definitely going to be in the Endgame camp with this one. :P

I read a critic describing Endgame as a Spielberg-ian blockbuster, and after seeing it I perfectly understand what that critic was meaning and I'm inclined to agree. Endgame feels most like a Spielberg blockbuster more than any other MCU film to date. I truly appreciate the slow burn and momentum building that the movie pushed for. A lot of my favorite moments were in the early acts of the film. It's the quieter moments that build up to grand set-pieces that really make the MCU shine more than anything. The whole time-heist act of the film felt like a real call to the Ant-Man movies, and it made me remember just how fun those movies can be. I think for a Spielberg film, his style as well has that slow-burn momentum that focuses on the heart and integrity of the characters before they get to the big set-pieces. That was Endgame to me in a nutshell, and to me it was nostalgic in more ways than just it reminiscing with the entire MCU. I think it was intentional to reference all the classic movies from the 80's (like Back to the Future), because it is really in a similar vein, and I just loved it for that reason.

Off a slight topic, but I found this video today and I think any MCU fan should watch it. I know the MCU has gotten a lot of criticism from non-fans over them being "shallow", but this video gives the best take on why so many people have taken the MCU for granted when it comes to these criticisms and in reality there's a lot more depth to the movies than some people give them credit for.

Loading Video...

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#27 Edited by jaydan (2211 posts) -
@FireEmblem_Man said:

It was good, Cpatain Marvel felt shoe-horned in the movie as she didn't do much or explained how she found Tony Stark and Nebula adrift from space.

After all that, I felt that this has come to a close and will not bother watching anymore films after GotG Vol 3, Spiderman, and Dr. Strange 2. I'm done after this

Yea that one didn't really make much sense to me. I was otherwise cool with her role in the movie. My biggest worry with Captain Marvel was if they'd make her dominate and basically win the show. I would have had issues with that because it's really not her story to end but for Tony and Cap. I was happy with her being instrumental more than anything, but yea her finding Tony and Nebula wasn't very laid-out.

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#28 Posted by FireEmblem_Man (19583 posts) -
@jaydan said:
@FireEmblem_Man said:

It was good, Cpatain Marvel felt shoe-horned in the movie as she didn't do much or explained how she found Tony Stark and Nebula adrift from space.

After all that, I felt that this has come to a close and will not bother watching anymore films after GotG Vol 3, Spiderman, and Dr. Strange 2. I'm done after this

Yea that one didn't really make much sense to me. I was otherwise cool with her role in the movie. My biggest worry with Captain Marvel was if they'd make her dominate and basically win the show. I would have had issues with that because it's really not her story to end but for Tony and Cap. I was happy with her being instrumental more than anything, but yea her finding Tony and Nebula wasn't very laid-out.

That's the other part that bothered me. I know the first Iron Man was a long time ago. But Tony always finds a way to survive. Remember, he had 1 week to live when the terrorist replaced his heart, and Tony found a way to stay alive. I would have expect Tony finding a way to repair Rocket's ship and then get home safely.

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#30 Posted by jaydan (2211 posts) -

@FireEmblem_Man said:
@jaydan said:
@FireEmblem_Man said:

It was good, Cpatain Marvel felt shoe-horned in the movie as she didn't do much or explained how she found Tony Stark and Nebula adrift from space.

After all that, I felt that this has come to a close and will not bother watching anymore films after GotG Vol 3, Spiderman, and Dr. Strange 2. I'm done after this

Yea that one didn't really make much sense to me. I was otherwise cool with her role in the movie. My biggest worry with Captain Marvel was if they'd make her dominate and basically win the show. I would have had issues with that because it's really not her story to end but for Tony and Cap. I was happy with her being instrumental more than anything, but yea her finding Tony and Nebula wasn't very laid-out.

That's the other part that bothered me. I know the first Iron Man was a long time ago. But Tony always finds a way to survive. Remember, he had 1 week to live when the terrorist replaced his heart, and Tony found a way to stay alive. I would have expect Tony finding a way to repair Rocket's ship and then get home safely.

There was a theory out there that Nebula would lend her own parts to repair the ship and get Tony home in time. Honestly I feel like that would have been a much better scenario and it would have directly paralleled with the the first Iron Man when that man in the cave helped him build the suit. I think it would have been a wonderful parallel to have the same scenario but with Nebula being his assistant.

But meh, it's just one minor qualm to me in an otherwise fantastic movie. I can accept how it played out even if it was not my preferable way, but overall there's so much more going for the movie. Maybe the Captain Marvel appearance will be explained in later movies.

On that note, though, I was initially stupefied by Star-Lord's actions in Infinity War when he let his emotions beat their odds of ripping the Gauntlet off of Thanos's hands. I initially thought that was just a stupid move, but with time I realize that was essential for Star-Lord to mess up for everyone. Doctor Strange did not stop it from happening so that meant it was necessary for it to play out for Endgame to happen.

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#31 Posted by FireEmblem_Man (19583 posts) -
@jaydan said:
@FireEmblem_Man said:

That's the other part that bothered me. I know the first Iron Man was a long time ago. But Tony always finds a way to survive. Remember, he had 1 week to live when the terrorist replaced his heart, and Tony found a way to stay alive. I would have expect Tony finding a way to repair Rocket's ship and then get home safely.

There was a theory out there that Nebula would lend her own parts to repair the ship and get Tony home in time. Honestly I feel like that would have been a much better scenario and it would have directly paralleled with the the first Iron Man when that man in the cave helped him build the suit. I think it would have been a wonderful parallel to have the same scenario but with Nebula being his assistant.

But meh, it's just one minor qualm to me in an otherwise fantastic movie. I can accept how it played out even if it was not my preferable way, but overall there's so much more going for the movie. Maybe the Captain Marvel appearance will be explained in later movies.

On that note, though, I was initially stupefied by Star-Lord's actions in Infinity War when he let his emotions beat their odds of ripping the Gauntlet off of Thanos's hands. I initially thought that was just a stupid move, but with time I realize that was essential for Star-Lord to mess up for everyone. Doctor Strange did not stop it from happening so that meant it was necessary for it to play out for Endgame to happen.

Of course! Dr. Strange went through all the different timeline scenarios and find the very best chance on beating Thanos for good. There's a reason why the Ancient One selected him to be the carrier of the Time Infinity Stone.

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#32 Edited by jaydan (2211 posts) -

@FireEmblem_Man: And I think the same could be said with Captain Marvel and her own powers. Like how did she find Tony and Nebula? I don't think it has anything to do with her stumbling upon them on her route to Earth by accident. It did not seem that way at all, because she went right up to the ship looking in the window as if she knew exactly who was in there and why she needed to bring that ship to Earth. She never met Tony Stark at this point but she was instructed to bring him to Earth, I feel like that is most evident from what we've seen. From the Captain Marvel movie up to Endgame, she's been partaking in space wars for decades. She is very well-versed with the universe at this point in time as well.

It is possible she could have had a connection with Doctor Strange at some point too when Strange went to see all these futures. I know it was not explained in Endgame but I think it can very well be explained later on. It goes with saying that both Doctor Strange and Captain Marvel are going to be major members of the new Avengers that are lining up, and I think it's possible they both have already been working together behind curtains. So more than anything I think Endgame leaves a lot of open-doors for future outings, and Marvel finding the ship can be among those doors we revisit later on.

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#33 Edited by uninspiredcup (32827 posts) -

Ah good, no spoiler tags.

Pepper Potts was totally out of place in the final battle. It makes 0 sense. When she dawned the suit in Iron Man 3 it was simply an escape measure. Now shes turned into John Rambo, purely because the writers couldn't figure out a way to get her next to Tony Stark when he (predictably) died.

Pretty great scene, kinda knew it was coming a mile away, but it was just executed so well. Same with Thanos sitting in a similar position as the first movie as he watches his dream dissolve. Great stuff.

The stuff with Black Widow and Capitan America kinda fell flat. And the Nebula thing was really, really predictable.

It was a surprise and a delight to see Tilda Swinton show up, shes wonderful and I kinda wish she was more integral to the story.

-

Pretty good, way to long, felt like it has 6 ending and the opening act is kinda boring. Infinity War was better imo.

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#34 Posted by Horgen (120182 posts) -

Given that Captain America.. Sorry I mean America's Ass managed to nudge Mjolnir back in 2012, hasn't he always been worthy of wielding it?

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#35 Edited by uninspiredcup (32827 posts) -

@horgen said:

Given that Captain America.. Sorry I mean America's Ass managed to nudge Mjolnir back in 2012, hasn't he always been worthy of wielding it?

Confused as well. Thought it was Thor, not the Hammer that creates electricity? At least according to Thor Ragnarok.

When he travels by in time, he's able to show up as an old. Why doesn't he warn them Nebula is double? And that way avoid the whole Lord Of The Rings battle ?

Instead of everyone running round trying to get the gauntlet away from Thanos, why doesn't Doctor Stange not just use a portal to place it a gazillion miles away?

If Capitan Marvel is the most powerful person, why not have her use the gauntlet to turn back time and resurrect Stark like Thanos did to "red man" in Infiinity War?

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#36 Edited by jaydan (2211 posts) -
@uninspiredcup said:
@horgen said:

Given that Captain America.. Sorry I mean America's Ass managed to nudge Mjolnir back in 2012, hasn't he always been worthy of wielding it?

Confused as well. Thought it was Thor, not the Hammer that creates electricity? At least according to Thor Ragnarok.

When he travels by in time, he's able to show up as an old. Why doesn't he warn them Nebula is double? And that way avoid the whole Lord Of The Rings battle ?

Instead of everyone running round trying to get the gauntlet away from Thanos, why doesn't Doctor Stange not just use a portal to place it a gazillion miles away?

If Capitan Marvel is the most powerful person, why not have her use the gauntlet to turn back time and resurrect Stark like Thanos did to "red man" in Infiinity War?

Mjolnir is about who is "worthy" not who is a God or anything like that. Cap was worthy and yes, in Age of Ultron he barely nudged - perhaps - held himself back from picking it up to be humble to the crowd.

Because then we wouldn't have an awesome battle at the end lol. Well the time travel logic that Endgame chose to go with is any events that they go back in time and change won't change their current timelines but rather branch off to an alternate reality. So that goes with saying that Captain could have warned of Nebula in his own reality when he went back in time but that does not affect what already happened in the movie's timeline. More than time traveling, what the Avengers were actually doing was traveling through parallel realities. I suspect right now they're calling it time travel as a form of their own lack of understanding (as Tony Stark made such a call early in the film), but I can see it possible in future movies the characters will come to a sense that they're messing with alternate realities more than straight up time traveling. Now the most illogical move made in this movie given these types of rules that don't make sense at all - is then how did Old Cap come back to that reality? If he went back in time to a different reality to spend his life with Peggy, shouldn't he have branched out to a different reality instead of growing old and reappearing before the other Avengers' eyes? That's what did not make much sense given the rules they put up in the movie. I felt like they handled the "time travel" rules well up until that point. I guess there can always be answers to how Old Cap broke those rules later on, like perhaps while he went back in time to stay with Peggy, he actually went on all these other missions that involved jumping between realities, and maybe as he aged up he jumped back to the movie's reality in time to show the Avengers he was doing well. Marvel will have some explaining to do for sure with that one.

Regardless whether sending the gauntlet to the far reaches of space would have helped (which it wouldn't have) they had to send the Stones back to their respective realities anyways which is another reason why Strange couldn't just send them away. They had to access the Quantum Realm for that one which the only portal at that time was right in the middle of the battle.

I don't think Doctor Strange could have just shuttled the gauntlet a gazillion miles away just as Doctor Strange couldn't do that in Infinity War either. There was reason why he let Star-Lord mess up for the team when they were just about to get the gauntlet off of Thanos's hands. The thing is Thanos is just about indestructible and there was really nothing else at the Avengers' disposal that would have been able to stop him. Just like in Infinity War, if they removed the gauntlet from his hand, Thanos would have just gone on a rampage until all of them were dead. It would have not worked out in the favor for the Avengers. Now in Endgame Doctor Strange couldn't just send off the gauntlet to the other end of the universe, because that wouldn't have stopped Thanos. There wasn't much other options at the Avengers disposal that would have defeated Thanos. The Avengers needed the gauntlet to remove Thanos from existence entirely. That's what it really came down to. Keeping the gauntlet far away from Thanos as possible would not have solved the problem because they would still be stuck with Thanos.

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#37 Edited by uninspiredcup (32827 posts) -

@jaydan said:
@uninspiredcup said:
@horgen said:

Given that Captain America.. Sorry I mean America's Ass managed to nudge Mjolnir back in 2012, hasn't he always been worthy of wielding it?

Confused as well. Thought it was Thor, not the Hammer that creates electricity? At least according to Thor Ragnarok.

When he travels by in time, he's able to show up as an old. Why doesn't he warn them Nebula is double? And that way avoid the whole Lord Of The Rings battle ?

Instead of everyone running round trying to get the gauntlet away from Thanos, why doesn't Doctor Stange not just use a portal to place it a gazillion miles away?

If Capitan Marvel is the most powerful person, why not have her use the gauntlet to turn back time and resurrect Stark like Thanos did to "red man" in Infiinity War?

Mjolnir is about who is "worthy" not who is a God or anything like that. Cap was worthy and yes, in Age of Ultron he barely nudged - perhaps - held himself back from picking it up to be humble to the crowd.

Because then we wouldn't have an awesome battle at the end lol. Well the time travel logic that Endgame chose to go with is any events that they go back in time and change won't change their current timelines but rather branch off to an alternate reality. So that goes with saying that Captain could have warned of Nebula in his own reality when he went back in time but that does not affect what already happened in the movie's timeline. More than time traveling, what the Avengers were actually doing was traveling through parallel realities. I suspect right now they're calling it time travel as a form of their own lack of understanding (as Tony Stark made such a call early in the film), but I can see it possible in future movies the characters will come to a sense that they're messing with alternate realities more than straight up time traveling. Now the most illogical move made in this movie given these types of rules that don't make sense at all - is then how did Old Cap come back to that reality? If he went back in time to a different reality to spend his life with Peggy, shouldn't he have branched out to a different reality instead of growing old and reappearing before the other Avengers' eyes? That's what did not make much sense given the rules they put up in the movie. I felt like they handled the "time travel" rules well up until that point. I guess there can always be answers to how Old Cap broke those rules later on, like perhaps while he went back in time to stay with Peggy, he actually went on all these other missions that involved jumping between realities, and maybe as he aged up he jumped back to the movie's reality in time to show the Avengers he was doing well. Marvel will have some explaining to do for sure with that one.

Regardless whether sending the gauntlet to the far reaches of space would have helped (which it wouldn't have) they had to send the Stones back to their respective realities anyways which is another reason why Strange couldn't just send them away. They had to access the Quantum Realm for that one which the only portal at that time was right in the middle of the battle.

I don't think Doctor Strange could have just shuttled the gauntlet a gazillion miles away just as Doctor Strange couldn't do that in Infinity War either. There was reason why he let Star-Lord mess up for the team when they were just about to get the gauntlet off of Thanos's hands. The thing is Thanos is just about indestructible and there was really nothing else at the Avengers' disposal that would have been able to stop him. Just like in Infinity War, if they removed the gauntlet from his hand, Thanos would have just gone on a rampage until all of them were dead. It would have not worked out in the favor for the Avengers. Now in Endgame Doctor Strange couldn't just send off the gauntlet to the other end of the universe, because that wouldn't have stopped Thanos. There wasn't much other options at the Avengers disposal that would have defeated Thanos. The Avengers needed the gauntlet to remove Thanos from existence entirely. That's what it really came down to. Keeping the gauntlet far away from Thanos as possible would not have solved the problem because they would still be stuck with Thanos.

Haha just joking man, that was quite the reply. I'll put the Doctor Strange thing down to "movie logic", cause, I mean, it wasn't just him doing the portal thing. Yea, they sort of needed a get-out-of-card to end that fight, even just for the sake of run-time. I think by the time it starts it's already what? Two and a half hours in. I think when we apply too much logic it's sort of defying point. Not that it's a pass for shitty writing, still think Peter Potts was really out of place at the end.

I liked the scene were Thanos was sitting and waiting, very reminiscent of Westens, particularly "he's whittling on a piece of wood".

Pretty good as well that they committed to lard-bearded Thor and never gave him a magic revert button mid-way through,

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#38 Posted by Horgen (120182 posts) -

@jaydan: Americas ass getting old was fan service. Giving him a life with Peggy and write him out of the universe for now.

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#39 Posted by Serraph105 (33668 posts) -

So I really liked this film, like a ****-ton, especially the ending with Cap. I was not expecting to tear up, but that final moment really did it for me. This whole series got me to know and really care about these characters. That said, its also probably because of the seriousness of this film and the length (and general lack of action) that I probably won't be rewatching it a ton either. That's despite the fact that I enjoyed the serious stuff and really enjoyed watching our characters deal with the consequences of the last movie, it was all really good and very much earned as a series (21 movie build up, holy shit) and felt good to watch. It's just that there's not a lot of occasions where I sit down for a 3 hour, mostly serious, movie regardless of how good it is because who has that kind of time?

The other thing I realized, and this has nothing to do with the quality of this film, is that from here on out we will constantly be making theories up based on what timeline we're really witnessing in every Marvel followup movie. That shit already gives me a headache in Rick and Morty, I think I'm gonna grow to hate it in Marvel pretty quickly, but that's on the fans more than its on the film makers.

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#40 Posted by uninspiredcup (32827 posts) -

The visuals in this movie were specular even with Marvel standards. Not to beat up on DC movies, but the shots in this, literally look like something out of a comic book. And when you look at something like Justice League, that attempts to be more colorful in comparison to Zack Synder colorless dystopian nightmare, you can't help but feel mildly embarrassed for them.

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#41 Posted by amillionhp (643 posts) -

Movie was good and enjoyable, i had to sit at the front row which sucked. Things i had issues with:

1. Time travel is stupid in terms of an anti guantlet strategy. If Dr. Strange is powerful enough to get a clear look at all of this, Then you'd have to figure Thanos would have done the same. Once he had all of the gems, he would definitely been capable of preventing something like this.

2. I'm annoyed some of these individual stones havent really been properly used and showcased with their full power. Such as the Soul and Mind stones.

3. I feel like Thanos' base, stoneless power level is very inconsistent. Its all over the place. We've got him making quick work of the Hulk at the beginning of Infinity war. Struggling to deal with Dr. Strange, Iron Man, etc on Titan. Then a completely stoneless Thanos fighting off Thor, Iron Man and Cap all at once.... it just doesnt make a lot of sense.

4. The female only assault at the end was very cringey. Felt forced and unecessary.

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#42 Posted by theone86 (22417 posts) -
@jaydan said:
@migina said:

6/10, "A great ending, to a rather dull first two acts."

+ positive

  • The last hour is a lot of fun
  • Great CGI
  • A great ending for this Marvel franchise

- Negatives

  • First two hours felt boring
  • Overly melodramatic
  • The pacing was all over the place, messy

I honestly, was very disappointed. Infinity War for me was mind-blowing, probably my second favourite comic book film after The Dark Knight. But this one was a bit boring for me, except the last hour. Had they cut the runtime and taken away a lot of the crying (seriously, too much crying). I think the pacing would have been great.

I'm the opposite. Maybe you just wanted a pure action flick. I felt like the pacing was fantastic and better than Infinity War. Endgame takes a lot more out of the drama book but I don't think that's a bad thing at all and more a service for the movie. I loved how the film built up its momentum that leads up to the epic final parts of the film. You gotta understand post-snap all the characters were destroyed in their own ways, and most of them completely accepted their defeat and that there was no possible way to fix things. So they go from that to learning it might be possible to fix things to assembling their odds to the epic conclusion. It had a very steady buildup with great momentum.

I do love Infinity War for different reasons, but its pacing is choppy to say the least. The Russo's were definitely right when they said infinity War and Endgame will feel distinctively different from one another. While both are connected by the story, both have very different tones. I think that is for the best because we'll see a good balance of fans between the two.

I think you're both kind of right. Endgame dragged for me in the middle, but that's a typical complaint I have with time travel stories. They spend a bunch of time in the middle just going around and chatting up people from previous movies/revisiting scenes from past movies/visiting historical figures and it adds little to the plot (like Back to the Future II). The catch is you can't really tell a time travel movie without doing this (okay, Back to the Future III, but that did away with the whole revisiting past movies concept entirely). Unless you want to just have the characters zip to the past and come back in two seconds, you're going to need some of that filler. The only past sequence that pulled it off without filler is the Hawkeye/Widow thread, and they did it while doing away with the whole revisiting past movies concept entirely (like Back to the Future III). It didn't really take away from the story for me, and I don't see how they could have done away with it entirely.

Infinity War didn't necessarily drag, but it had a lot of setup scenes. Hulk and Tony meet Strange, Strange meets Spider-Man, the Avengers argue with Ross, the Avengers meet up with the Secret Avengers, Thor meets the Guardians, the Guardians meet Strange/Spider-Man/Tony, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. There is a lot of introducing people to other people that just wouldn't fly in any other movie, but it works for Infinity War. Endgame suffers from this too, though. They honestly could have just saved Captain Marvel until the last battle and it would have made exactly zero difference to the plot, other than a couple of scenes of banter. I actually feel they work best when thought of as one movie. The ending of Infinity War would be unsatisfying without knowing there's a second part coming, and Endgame only really works when you've got the setup of Infinity War as a primer (like Back to the Future I+II). Man, these movies really are Back to the Future: Marvel Edition.

Anyway, am I the only one dissatisfied with their treatment of time travel? If it's impossible to go back in the past and change events, then shouldn't it also be impossible to go back in the past to take objects out of the past into the present? Because if they stole the Infinity Stones then they never would have been in the past to begin with, meaning Thanos never would have used them, meaning they never would have gone back to steal them. And don't say that they returned them, because if they had failed to return them they would have created a paradox.

Oh, speaking of time travel, have they confirmed whether or not Thanos' snap was random? Because if every action creates a different timeline, then when Thanos snapped his fingers he should have created TONS of timelines. Seriously, it's a giant ****ing number. Let's just relegate it to humans, because the number of lifeforms on earth is literally uncountable. There are 7.5 billion of us, Thanos wiped half of us out. That means he killed 3.75 billion humans. The number of possible combinations of humans he killed, then, is 3.75 billion! (not an exclamation point, that means factorial, or you keep multiplying the number by one less). I typed this into a calculator, and the answer it gave me is infinity. Literally, there are infinity timelines that Thanos could have created by snapping different combinations of people out of existence.

And this brings me to another point, how did Strange know that even if Tony was spared, he would have survived the snap? Was that something Thanos consciously did? And if it was, why didn't he consciously (or unconsciously for that matter) get rid of the heroes who end up saving the world? Seriously, aside from Tony, it seems like at least three other people HAD to survive the snap. Hulk had to in order to convince the Ancient One and in order to undo the snap, and Hawkeye and Black Widow had to in order to sacrifice one of themselves (because I don't see many other combinations of Avengers ending up with the person they love the most on Vormir). Heck, just the idea that those two happened to wind up on Vormir instead of, say, Nebula and Ant-Man, is hugely unlikely. Furthermore, some people had to not survive the snap. It seems like the whole thing wouldn't have been possible without both the Pyms and Hawkeye's family getting dusted (the former because then Scott never would have discovered time travel, the latter because Nat would no longer be the most important person to Hawkeye and he would no longer have a deathwish). So, discounting Tony, you have the odds that all three of the other essentials survive at 1/3.75 b(1/3.75b-1)(1/3.75b-2), and the odds that the other seven get dusted at (1/3.75b-3)(1/3.75b-4)(1/3.75b-5)(1/3.75b-6)(1/3.75b-7)(1/3.75b-8)(1/3.75b-9). That essentially puts their odds of succeeding at 1/3.75 billion to the tenth power, which is nothing. Dr. Strange said he saw 14 million possibilities? Hah! That's absolute peanuts compared to the number of possibilities he should've seen. It also makes me think that Strange somehow not only saved Tony, Hulk, Widow, and Hawkeye, but dusted the Pyms and the Bartons.

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#43 Posted by Vaidream45 (1851 posts) -

......cheeseburgers........

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#44 Posted by Gamerno6666 (6683 posts) -

Damn what an amazing movie. So much fan service which is a good thing.

But i have some issues like the first hours was boring and slow. Not gonna sit through that again. And what did they do to hulk. Didn’t like the direction they took with his character. And why didn’t even we see him fighting? Sigh. But overall really enjoyed the last 2 acts.

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#45 Posted by Horgen (120182 posts) -

@amillionhp said:

Movie was good and enjoyable, i had to sit at the front row which sucked. Things i had issues with:

3. I feel like Thanos' base, stoneless power level is very inconsistent. Its all over the place. We've got him making quick work of the Hulk at the beginning of Infinity war. Struggling to deal with Dr. Strange, Iron Man, etc on Titan. Then a completely stoneless Thanos fighting off Thor, Iron Man and Cap all at once.... it just doesnt make a lot of sense.

He had the power stone when he beat Hulk in the beginning of Infinity War. Dr. Strange and Iron Man blocked him from using the stones power, but it also seemed like he didn't really want to kill people in IW when searching for the stones. The Thanos we met in Endgame seemed prepared to do anything to get the stones, and were outfitted to do so as well.

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#46 Posted by shellcase86 (4351 posts) -

Didn't like the way they ended Cap's story. Didn't like the time travelling element. A lot of the action was predictable.

It was an okay movie, but I was expecting the impact Infinity War had.

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#47 Edited by Chutebox (44497 posts) -

What a disappointing movie.

That's two avengers movies.where we basically saw no hulk action

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#48 Posted by AcidTango (1660 posts) -

I watched it on Saturday. I enjoyed it a lot. The action scenes are great, the CGI is terrific, and I do like the bonding of the main characters. Plus the fight against past Thanos and his army is awesome. Also I was sad that Iron Man and Black Widow both died. I kind of knew deep down that Tony Stark was going to die in the film but I was surprised that Black Widow dies as well. And the fact that other characters from Infinity War who were killed are still dead and I have to give Endgame a lot of respect for making them stay dead instead of a cheesy stupid ending of everybody all coming back to life like what Dragon Ball does all the time.

However there were some issues that I have in this film. First I find it odd that everyone on Earth goes back to their normal lives at the end of the film as if it wasn't a big deal. I mean half of the inhabitants on Earth were gone for 5 years and the planet should be in a huge mess by now. Plus there has to be a huge tragedy for everyone because I'm sure there that the people who didn't disappear from Thanos died ether by accident, suicide, or they couldn't survive on their own, and you probably have babies and young children who were left behind when their parents were gone and ended up being dead. And the people who came back ether finds that their loved ones are deceased or suffered a mental breakdown. I mean it shouldn't be a happy ending for the planet. Also the whole Captain America going back in time and staying there and becoming an old man felt rushed to me.

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#49 Posted by jaydan (2211 posts) -

@amillionhp said:

Movie was good and enjoyable, i had to sit at the front row which sucked. Things i had issues with:

1. Time travel is stupid in terms of an anti guantlet strategy. If Dr. Strange is powerful enough to get a clear look at all of this, Then you'd have to figure Thanos would have done the same. Once he had all of the gems, he would definitely been capable of preventing something like this.

2. I'm annoyed some of these individual stones havent really been properly used and showcased with their full power. Such as the Soul and Mind stones.

3. I feel like Thanos' base, stoneless power level is very inconsistent. Its all over the place. We've got him making quick work of the Hulk at the beginning of Infinity war. Struggling to deal with Dr. Strange, Iron Man, etc on Titan. Then a completely stoneless Thanos fighting off Thor, Iron Man and Cap all at once.... it just doesnt make a lot of sense.

4. The female only assault at the end was very cringey. Felt forced and unecessary.

1. Thanos already fulfilled his "destiny" and no longer had any need for the Infinity Stones. I believe that's why he allowed himself to die so easily at the beginning of the film. He did not even fight back. Thanos is less concerned about his own survival after the snap as much as he was concerned about finishing that "destiny". He did not fight back because his job was already done.

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#50 Posted by darkmark91 (3040 posts) -

I might have missed this part. But can anyone tell me how did Thanos bring all his friends to the future?