More than 4 in 10 Americans believe God created humans in their present form less than 10,000 years ago

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#51 Posted by Jacanuk (18276 posts) -
@HoolaHoopMan said:

What bullshittery is this? So a school district filled a majority of creationists could just vote and teach kids patently false ideas then? This is how we dumb down our society.

@HoolaHoopMan said:

That's negative proof, which in this case would constitute a fallacy. The other side must prove the positive existence of God.

Well, first of all, there are Federally mandated curriculums in any school, which is why in some private schools they teach both, so sorry but you can´t only be for democracy when it suits you and the majority is on your side.

And no that is not "negative proof" you are arguing from a personal perspective and we are not debating your subjective opinion on who needs to prove what. For religious people, you need to prove the non-existence of a deity because for them there is something bigger and it fits their subjective view.

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#52 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (10603 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

What bullshittery is this? So a school district filled a majority of creationists could just vote and teach kids patently false ideas then? This is how we dumb down our society.

@HoolaHoopMan said:

That's negative proof, which in this case would constitute a fallacy. The other side must prove the positive existence of God.

Well, first of all, there are Federally mandated curriculums in any school, which is why in some private schools they teach both, so sorry but you can´t only be for democracy when it suits you and the majority is on your side.

To insinuate that we should put facts up to a vote is fucking absurd, even by your posting standards. Let's vote on creationism! Let's vote on flat Eartherism!

It's a good way to build a nation full of idiots.

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#53 Posted by Jacanuk (18276 posts) -
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@Jacanuk said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

What bullshittery is this? So a school district filled a majority of creationists could just vote and teach kids patently false ideas then? This is how we dumb down our society.

@HoolaHoopMan said:

That's negative proof, which in this case would constitute a fallacy. The other side must prove the positive existence of God.

Well, first of all, there are Federally mandated curriculums in any school, which is why in some private schools they teach both, so sorry but you can´t only be for democracy when it suits you and the majority is on your side.

To insinuate that we should put facts up to a vote is fucking absurd, even by your posting standards. Let's vote on creationism! Let's vote on flat Eartherism!

It's a good way to build a nation full of idiots.

Are you for democracy or are you against it? because from this post you seem to be very much against it.

And don´t worry America already is, why do you think people like the Kardashians are famous or why fake shit like reality tv draws in millions each day.

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#54 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (10603 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@Jacanuk said:

Well, first of all, there are Federally mandated curriculums in any school, which is why in some private schools they teach both, so sorry but you can´t only be for democracy when it suits you and the majority is on your side.

To insinuate that we should put facts up to a vote is fucking absurd, even by your posting standards. Let's vote on creationism! Let's vote on flat Eartherism!

It's a good way to build a nation full of idiots.

Are you for democracy or are you against it? because from this post you seem to be very much against it.

What does this even mean? That because I favor a democratic political system, all of a sudden everything should be put up for a vote to determine its validity? You're just creating a strawman and a false dichotomy which you think people need to adhere to.

I have an idea, let's put your gender identify up for a vote in this forum. If more people think you identify as a beagle, therefore you must be a beagle. This is what you're essentially advocating for.

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#55 Posted by Jacanuk (18276 posts) -
@HoolaHoopMan said:

What does this even mean? That because I favor a democratic political system, all of a sudden everything should be put up for a vote to determine its validity? You're just creating a strawman and a false dichotomy which you think people need to adhere to.

I have an idea, let's put your gender identify up for a vote in this forum. If more people think you identify as a beagle, therefore you must be a beagle. This is what you're essentially advocating for.

What does that mean? It´s pretty clear are you for or against Democracy? It´s not that hard to answer yes or no.

Also, no one said everything should be up for a vote but as long as the public school is in accordance with the law they can do whatever the majority wants

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#56 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (10603 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

What does this even mean? That because I favor a democratic political system, all of a sudden everything should be put up for a vote to determine its validity? You're just creating a strawman and a false dichotomy which you think people need to adhere to.

I have an idea, let's put your gender identify up for a vote in this forum. If more people think you identify as a beagle, therefore you must be a beagle. This is what you're essentially advocating for.

What does that mean? It´s pretty clear are you for or against Democracy? It´s not that hard to answer yes or no.

I've already described to you why this line of reasoning is asinine. If you can't realize it, then I can't help you. Fundamental facts about the universe are not subject to a popularity contest.

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#57 Edited by Maroxad (15229 posts) -
@Ovirew said:

I'm not a very religious guy, but I don't entirely buy into the idea of evolution. I mean, stuff definitely evolves, but I don't think humans came from monkeys - I think we were our own thing, some different creature.

I almost feel like we aren't "from" here, like we are descended from aliens, or were created by aliens or some intelligent form of life.

I guess maybe I do buy into the idea that we were created by a God, idk. I feel like for all of the faults of humanity, we are definitely not like the others.

Humans didnt come from monkeys. Humans had a common ancestor with from monkeys, we are great apes.

There were others like us, they are now extinct. It is one of the reasons fantasy is quite often quite fascinating, what if the other humanoids didnt go extinct?

@Ovirew said:

@thehig1: I'm not saying humans are better than other creatures or are even wholly good, I just think we're clearly different than the other living things on this planet. Our ability to communicate, think and create goes well above what every other species on our planet can do. We've completely changed the world, from how it was before us - whether or not we've made any real impact idk, but we've done a lot in a relatively short time.

These are traits found among animals as well. Several species of animals out there do use tools. Sometimes even make them.

@Ovirew said:

The amount of rudeness and annoyance I've experienced from religious people has been far less than what I've experienced from athiests and progressives over the years, tbh. Really I hear more putting-down of religion than I've ever heard of fire and brimstone.

My view? At the end of the day liberal scientists will do studies and research and walk away with whatever tidbits of affirmation they can to support their agendas. That's their whole game.

Liberals constantly call for proof and reason from Conservatives. But Liberals also strongly support homosexuality. Homosexuality, if you get right down to it, kind of doesn't make sense.

But Liberal scientists will come up with hundreds of reasons why homosexuality might have a purpose. They'll say it has benefits, they'll say at one time women were men but evolved into their current form. But at the end of the day it's, from a scientific standpoint, something that goes against the norm and rationality.

Of course Conservative religious people have their bs, too. To them apparently women were created from a man's rib, I guess?

But I get the impression that science is basically a weapon the Left uses to push suspicions as word.

The left?

Science doesnt care about our petty politics, science is above that. And science trying to support agendas is the OPPOSITE of what science is about. And being caught doing that is enough to get you discredited. Ever been to a scientific debate/discussion? We show our opponents our entire hand, because the goal is to get to the truth.

Argument from Personal incredulity on the homosexuality bit.

Actually if you know what determines sex geneticially it is not hard to see how we evolved from asexual reproduction, to having 2 sexes. The theory of evolution does a phenomenal job explainnig that. And while I am at it, read up on the SRY gene and Testis Determining Factor.

Science is not a weapon of the left, or the right. Nor is science suspicions, they are a body of well documented phenomenon.

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#58 Posted by Jacanuk (18276 posts) -
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@Jacanuk said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

What does this even mean? That because I favor a democratic political system, all of a sudden everything should be put up for a vote to determine its validity? You're just creating a strawman and a false dichotomy which you think people need to adhere to.

I have an idea, let's put your gender identify up for a vote in this forum. If more people think you identify as a beagle, therefore you must be a beagle. This is what you're essentially advocating for.

What does that mean? It´s pretty clear are you for or against Democracy? It´s not that hard to answer yes or no.

I've already described to you why this line of reasoning is asinine. If you can't realize it, then I can't help you. Fundamental facts about the universe are not subject to a popularity contest.

And your description is completely absurd.

Do you understand how democracy works? Also, do you know what they teach in religious schools? also that anyone can home school their kids which is happening a lot more often then you think.

The law is the only thing that regulates schools curriculums, outside that and as long as the school is in accordance with the law, there is nothing keeping a private school from teaching creationism.

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#59 Posted by LJS9502_basic (166353 posts) -

@theone86 said:

If an omniscient god created man, then why did he make him this stupid? Check and mate.

Entertainment.

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#60 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (10603 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

I've already described to you why this line of reasoning is asinine. If you can't realize it, then I can't help you. Fundamental facts about the universe are not subject to a popularity contest.

And your description is completely absurd.

Do you understand how democracy works? Also, do you know what they teach in religious schools? also that anyone can home school their kids which is happening a lot more often then you think.

The law is the only thing that regulates schools curriculums, outside that and as long as the school is in accordance with the law, there is nothing keeping a private school from teaching creationism.

I'm not advocating for private schools to teach creationism, you can throw that argument out the window. I'm talking about public institutions.

You're entire premise is that 'Not supporting a democratic vote in one instance = Not supporting democracy in general'. That's where your argument is hitting a road block since it's a strawman and it's clear you don't have the ability to properly dissect an argument based on it's own merits.

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#61 Posted by Jacanuk (18276 posts) -
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@Jacanuk said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

I've already described to you why this line of reasoning is asinine. If you can't realize it, then I can't help you. Fundamental facts about the universe are not subject to a popularity contest.

And your description is completely absurd.

Do you understand how democracy works? Also, do you know what they teach in religious schools? also that anyone can home school their kids which is happening a lot more often then you think.

The law is the only thing that regulates schools curriculums, outside that and as long as the school is in accordance with the law, there is nothing keeping a private school from teaching creationism.

I'm not advocating for private schools to teach creationism, you can throw that argument out the window. I'm talking about public institutions.

You're entire premise is that 'Not supporting a democratic vote in one instance = Not supporting democracy in general'. That's where your argument is hitting a road block since it's a strawman and it's clear you don't have the ability to properly dissect an argument based on it's own merits.

It does not matter if it´s private or public schools, we were debating what they can/can´t do, and to be absolutely clear as long as they abide by the law the school could teach creationism or ID as it´s called today.

And you can´t hide your entire counter to my argument is equivalent to sticking your fingers in your ears and going "nananananana" which is the same as not acknowledging democracy.

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#62 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (10603 posts) -

@Jacanuk said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@Jacanuk said:

And your description is completely absurd.

Do you understand how democracy works? Also, do you know what they teach in religious schools? also that anyone can home school their kids which is happening a lot more often then you think.

The law is the only thing that regulates schools curriculums, outside that and as long as the school is in accordance with the law, there is nothing keeping a private school from teaching creationism.

I'm not advocating for private schools to teach creationism, you can throw that argument out the window. I'm talking about public institutions.

You're entire premise is that 'Not supporting a democratic vote in one instance = Not supporting democracy in general'. That's where your argument is hitting a road block since it's a strawman and it's clear you don't have the ability to properly dissect an argument based on it's own merits.

It does not matter if it´s private or public schools, we were debating what they can/can´t do, and to be absolutely clear as long as they abide by the law the school could teach creationism or ID as it´s called today.

And you can´t hide your entire counter to my argument is equivalent to sticking your fingers in your ears and going "nananananana" which is the same as not acknowledging democracy.

It does matter if they are private or public, one is publicly funded.

And no, if you keep insisting on the above fallacy (the democratic voting shtick), then there's no use in continuing this conversation. It's just you being disingenuous.

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#63 Edited by Lach0121 (11391 posts) -

The burden of proof falls on those making the claim. Not those rejecting the claim. Religion, and thus religious people, assert the claim that god exists. (among a much larger rabbit hole of detrimental implications) Those of us that do not accept the assertion do not have to provide evidence of why we do not. We simply apply Hitchens' Razor.

Those 4 in 10 are a prime example of the reason why we need Epistemology, and Ontology, taught as required classes well before college. Though its kinda hard when education keeps getting gutted in favor of tax cuts for the rich, and other BS.

The greatest con that man has ever bestowed on man (religion) is on the decline in the US despite anti-intellectual movements, and coups such as the in-progress "project blitz."

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#64 Posted by theone86 (22417 posts) -
@LJS9502_basic said:
@theone86 said:

If an omniscient god created man, then why did he make him this stupid? Check and mate.

Entertainment.

Touché.

Though that does lend credence to this argument:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

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#65 Posted by 6_Dead_360s (1677 posts) -

How about we just use one or the other to solve the problem.

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#66 Posted by sonicare (56648 posts) -

I highly doubt that study.

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#67 Posted by Serraph105 (33668 posts) -

@horgen said:

So... US education failed about 80% of its population then...?

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but US education doesn't teach people that God doesn't exist. I'm personally fine with people thinking that God guided evolution because at least they believe in evolution. I'm not at all fine with people thinking evolution is a big lie however.