Liberal Democracy is not compatible with Islam

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Avatar image for Skarwolf
#1 Posted by Skarwolf (2263 posts) -

Read this article

If you don't feel like reading the entire thing here's one interesting exerpt.

"Speaking last year at the launch of a book by Zafar Bangash, a Muslim activist in Toronto, Kambiz Sheikh-Hassani, Irans now-expelled chargé daffaires, told the audience: You live in Canada. Liberal democracy is not compatible with our way of life."

Why is ok for them to say it but not us ? We are racist when we state the obvious but they acknowledge it. Why do you want to move to the west knowing your way of life isn't compatible and attempt to change our way of life. This will never happen. Ever.

It is not racist or bigotted for me to say so either. The true racists & bigots are those who refuse to question their ideaology & belief system in response to different views & react with violence.

Avatar image for GazaAli
#2 Posted by GazaAli (25216 posts) -

:| Since when does the west adhere to one way of life? Christians' way of life is not compatible with liberalism either. If you want to go to the west you have to abide by the law. Other than that you can have whatever way of life you want.

Avatar image for TopTierHustler
#3 Posted by TopTierHustler (3894 posts) -

:| Since when does the west adhere to one way of life? Christians' way of life is not compatible with liberalism either. If you want to go to the west you have to abide by the law. Other than that you can have whatever way of life you want.

GazaAli

Christians don't blow up buildings.....

Avatar image for UnknownSniper65
#4 Posted by UnknownSniper65 (9238 posts) -

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]

:| Since when does the west adhere to one way of life? Christians' way of life is not compatible with liberalism either. If you want to go to the west you have to abide by the law. Other than that you can have whatever way of life you want.

TopTierHustler

Christians don't blow up buildings.....

Timothy McVeigh did:|

Avatar image for Mike-uk
#5 Posted by Mike-uk (2088 posts) -

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]

:| Since when does the west adhere to one way of life? Christians' way of life is not compatible with liberalism either. If you want to go to the west you have to abide by the law. Other than that you can have whatever way of life you want.

TopTierHustler

Christians don't blow up buildings.....

That is the most untrue statement I have ever read on this site.
Avatar image for Mike-uk
#6 Posted by Mike-uk (2088 posts) -

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]

:| Since when does the west adhere to one way of life? Christians' way of life is not compatible with liberalism either. If you want to go to the west you have to abide by the law. Other than that you can have whatever way of life you want.

UnknownSniper65

Christians don't blow up buildings.....

Timothy McVeigh did:|

Oklahoma bombing correct?
Avatar image for leviathan91
#7 Posted by leviathan91 (7763 posts) -

You're right. This is why we shouldn't have liberalism and democracies.

Avatar image for theone86
#8 Posted by theone86 (20689 posts) -

Read this article

If you don't feel like reading the entire thing here's one interesting exerpt.

"Speaking last year at the launch of a book by Zafar Bangash, a Muslim activist in Toronto, Kambiz Sheikh-Hassani, Irans now-expelled chargé daffaires, told the audience: You live in Canada. Liberal democracy is not compatible with our way of life."

Why is ok for them to say it but not us ? We are racist when we state the obvious but they acknowledge it. Why do you want to move to the west knowing your way of life isn't compatible and attempt to change our way of life. This will never happen. Ever.

It is not racist or bigotted for me to say so either. The true racists & bigots are those who refuse to question their ideaology & belief system in response to different views & react with violence.

Skarwolf

It's racist when you take the words of one man and generalize them to a whole culture in order to insult that culture. We are talking about one man here, who is supportive of and comes from a theocratic state. In his view Islam is not compatible with liberal democracy, just like in the view of Fred Phelps Christianity is not compatible with true democracy. That doesn't change the fact that his statement is demonstrably false, as there are several examples of Islamic majority countries that have liberalized successfully.

Avatar image for TopTierHustler
#9 Posted by TopTierHustler (3894 posts) -

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]

:| Since when does the west adhere to one way of life? Christians' way of life is not compatible with liberalism either. If you want to go to the west you have to abide by the law. Other than that you can have whatever way of life you want.

UnknownSniper65

Christians don't blow up buildings.....

Timothy McVeigh did:|

maybe I should rephrase: Christians don't blow up buildings in the name of their religion, and acts of violence are few to none, while I hear about Muslims doing something awful every day.

McVeigh did what he did in the name of white supremacy.

Avatar image for Mike-uk
#10 Posted by Mike-uk (2088 posts) -

[QUOTE="UnknownSniper65"]

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]Christians don't blow up buildings.....

TopTierHustler

Timothy McVeigh did:|

maybe I should rephrase: Christians don't blow up buildings in the name of their religion, and acts of violence are few to none, while I hear about Muslims doing something awful every day.

McVeigh did what he did in the name of white supremacy.

There are Christian terrorists too you know? Not as common as Islamic terrorists but still they are around.
Avatar image for theone86
#11 Posted by theone86 (20689 posts) -

[QUOTE="UnknownSniper65"]

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]Christians don't blow up buildings.....

TopTierHustler

Timothy McVeigh did:|

maybe I should rephrase: Christians don't blow up buildings in the name of their religion, and acts of violence are few to none, while I hear about Muslims doing something awful every day.

McVeigh did what he did in the name of white supremacy.

Yeah, and how long did it take us to get to that point?

I don't think anyone's saying that there aren't certain things within Islamic society that need to change, but going around calling all Muslims socially inferior is not going to help affect that change.

Avatar image for Stevo_the_gamer
#12 Posted by Stevo_the_gamer (44825 posts) -
Theocracy and Liberalism are never compatible.
Avatar image for punkpunker
#13 Posted by punkpunker (3383 posts) -

what loads of rubbish, if a muslim is used to liberal democracy then the person would be with the former or oppose it, simple as that.

Avatar image for LordQuorthon
#14 Posted by LordQuorthon (5671 posts) -

I read an article! I am educated enough to jump to conclusions!

Avatar image for Skarwolf
#15 Posted by Skarwolf (2263 posts) -

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="UnknownSniper65"]

Timothy McVeigh did:|

Mike-uk

maybe I should rephrase: Christians don't blow up buildings in the name of their religion, and acts of violence are few to none, while I hear about Muslims doing something awful every day.

McVeigh did what he did in the name of white supremacy.

There are Christian terrorists too you know? Not as common as Islamic terrorists but still they are around.

You're wrong in that McViegh did that in opposition to the government not out of religious belief. Fail on that regard.

Secondly, I'd like to you detail to me at least 5 or more examples of Christian terrorism since the year 2000. Not grasping at straws to point out things that happened 20 years or more ago in relation to the constant and daily, hourly, by the minute ass hattery by the average muslim radical.

Avatar image for themajormayor
#16 Posted by themajormayor (25503 posts) -

Read this, then come back to me.

Avatar image for C2N2
#17 Posted by C2N2 (759 posts) -

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]

:| Since when does the west adhere to one way of life? Christians' way of life is not compatible with liberalism either. If you want to go to the west you have to abide by the law. Other than that you can have whatever way of life you want.

TopTierHustler

Christians don't blow up buildings.....

Christians already had their heyday... A period of human history you may have heard of? We know it as the Dark Ages...

Perhaps you have heard of their various other exploits? The Inquisition, the Crusades, etc...

All during this time there was intellectual advancement in the Middle East and lack of war (large scale war) given the entire Islamic world was under the rule of a caliphate.

Islamic Extremism is a NEW THING... That is a direct result of Western interference in the Islamic world.

- Defeat of The Ottoman Empire who allied with the central powers during WW1.

- The carving up of the Middle East by the British and French afterward (why there are straight line borders in Middle Eastern Nations, British/French laid a ruler on a map and said you get that side we get this side...)

- Creation of British/French Hashimite Kingdoms in Iraq, Syria, Jordan, etc...

Many of the problems in the Middle East today are direct result of European and later American exploitation of the region...

Avatar image for BossPerson
#18 Posted by BossPerson (9177 posts) -

Lol thats my university.

As for the topic: it depends. If you take Islam with the whole package (economics, religion, law) then of course it isnt. But neither is Judaism or Christianity or that matter. But if you only take the theology aspects and some of the morality, then it is just like modern christianity and judaism.

Avatar image for Skarwolf
#19 Posted by Skarwolf (2263 posts) -

[QUOTE="Skarwolf"]

Read this article

If you don't feel like reading the entire thing here's one interesting exerpt.

"Speaking last year at the launch of a book by Zafar Bangash, a Muslim activist in Toronto, Kambiz Sheikh-Hassani, Irans now-expelled chargé daffaires, told the audience: You live in Canada. Liberal democracy is not compatible with our way of life."

Why is ok for them to say it but not us ? We are racist when we state the obvious but they acknowledge it. Why do you want to move to the west knowing your way of life isn't compatible and attempt to change our way of life. This will never happen. Ever.

It is not racist or bigotted for me to say so either. The true racists & bigots are those who refuse to question their ideaology & belief system in response to different views & react with violence.

theone86

It's racist when you take the words of one man and generalize them to a whole culture in order to insult that culture. We are talking about one man here, who is supportive of and comes from a theocratic state. In his view Islam is not compatible with liberal democracy, just like in the view of Fred Phelps Christianity is not compatible with true democracy. That doesn't change the fact that his statement is demonstrably false, as there are several examples of Islamic majority countries that have liberalized successfully.

They only "liberalized" at the behest of their western governments who they'd like to do business with. They just keep the craziness behind doors where they can't see but its still there. Case in point, anytime the "muslim rising" occurs in said country look what happens afterwards. A return to radical asshattery.

Avatar image for BossPerson
#20 Posted by BossPerson (9177 posts) -

Read this, then come back to me.

themajormayor
always looking out for Arabs.... I love you man
Avatar image for themajormayor
#21 Posted by themajormayor (25503 posts) -
[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

Read this, then come back to me.

BossPerson
always looking out for Arabs.... I love you man

love you too bro :3
Avatar image for TopTierHustler
#22 Posted by TopTierHustler (3894 posts) -

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]

:| Since when does the west adhere to one way of life? Christians' way of life is not compatible with liberalism either. If you want to go to the west you have to abide by the law. Other than that you can have whatever way of life you want.

C2N2

Christians don't blow up buildings.....

Christians already had their heyday... A period of human history you may have heard of? We know it as the Dark Ages...

Perhaps you have heard of their various other exploits? The Inquisition, the Crusades, etc...

All during this time there was intellectual advancement in the Middle East and lack of war (large scale war) given the entire Islamic world was under the rule of a caliphate.

Islamic Extremism is a NEW THING... That is a direct result of Western interference in the Islamic world.

- Defeat of The Ottoman Empire who allied with the central powers during WW1.

- The carving up of the Middle East by the British and French afterward (why there are straight line borders in Middle Eastern Nations, British/French laid a ruler on a map and said you get that side we get this side...)

- Creation of British/French Hashimite Kingdoms in Iraq, Syria, Jordan, etc...

Many of the problems in the Middle East today are direct result of European and later American exploitation of the region...

I wasn't aware we still lived in the 1100s.....

Avatar image for C2N2
#23 Posted by C2N2 (759 posts) -

[QUOTE="C2N2"]

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]Christians don't blow up buildings.....

TopTierHustler

Christians already had their heyday... A period of human history you may have heard of? We know it as the Dark Ages...

Perhaps you have heard of their various other exploits? The Inquisition, the Crusades, etc...

All during this time there was intellectual advancement in the Middle East and lack of war (large scale war) given the entire Islamic world was under the rule of a caliphate.

Islamic Extremism is a NEW THING... That is a direct result of Western interference in the Islamic world.

- Defeat of The Ottoman Empire who allied with the central powers during WW1.

- The carving up of the Middle East by the British and French afterward (why there are straight line borders in Middle Eastern Nations, British/French laid a ruler on a map and said you get that side we get this side...)

- Creation of British/French Hashimite Kingdoms in Iraq, Syria, Jordan, etc...

Many of the problems in the Middle East today are direct result of European and later American exploitation of the region...

I wasn't aware we still lived in the 1100s.....

I wasn't aware that I implied we did?

Simply pointing out that FAR more people have been killed because of Christianity than Islam in the history of our world. And that most of the violence Islam is responsible for towards the West today is a direct response to our own actions in the region.

Avatar image for TopTierHustler
#24 Posted by TopTierHustler (3894 posts) -

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="C2N2"]

Christians already had their heyday... A period of human history you may have heard of? We know it as the Dark Ages...

Perhaps you have heard of their various other exploits? The Inquisition, the Crusades, etc...

All during this time there was intellectual advancement in the Middle East and lack of war (large scale war) given the entire Islamic world was under the rule of a caliphate.

Islamic Extremism is a NEW THING... That is a direct result of Western interference in the Islamic world.

- Defeat of The Ottoman Empire who allied with the central powers during WW1.

- The carving up of the Middle East by the British and French afterward (why there are straight line borders in Middle Eastern Nations, British/French laid a ruler on a map and said you get that side we get this side...)

- Creation of British/French Hashimite Kingdoms in Iraq, Syria, Jordan, etc...

Many of the problems in the Middle East today are direct result of European and later American exploitation of the region...

C2N2

I wasn't aware we still lived in the 1100s.....

I wasn't aware that I implied we did?

Simply pointing out that FAR more people have been killed because of Christianity than Islam in the history of our world. And that most of the violence Islam is responsible for towards the West today is a direct response to our own actions in the region.

I'm saying there's no excuse for it in the modern world like there was then.

I think most of the violence we see in Islam is just a result of....Islam.

Like how little girls are afraid to go to school in Afghanistan because the ultra religious threaten to throw acid in their faces.

Avatar image for theone86
#25 Posted by theone86 (20689 posts) -

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="Skarwolf"]

Read this article

If you don't feel like reading the entire thing here's one interesting exerpt.

"Speaking last year at the launch of a book by Zafar Bangash, a Muslim activist in Toronto, Kambiz Sheikh-Hassani, Irans now-expelled chargé daffaires, told the audience: You live in Canada. Liberal democracy is not compatible with our way of life."

Why is ok for them to say it but not us ? We are racist when we state the obvious but they acknowledge it. Why do you want to move to the west knowing your way of life isn't compatible and attempt to change our way of life. This will never happen. Ever.

It is not racist or bigotted for me to say so either. The true racists & bigots are those who refuse to question their ideaology & belief system in response to different views & react with violence.

Skarwolf

It's racist when you take the words of one man and generalize them to a whole culture in order to insult that culture. We are talking about one man here, who is supportive of and comes from a theocratic state. In his view Islam is not compatible with liberal democracy, just like in the view of Fred Phelps Christianity is not compatible with true democracy. That doesn't change the fact that his statement is demonstrably false, as there are several examples of Islamic majority countries that have liberalized successfully.

They only "liberalized" at the behest of their western governments who they'd like to do business with. They just keep the craziness behind doors where they can't see but its still there. Case in point, anytime the "muslim rising" occurs in said country look what happens afterwards. A return to radical asshattery.

That's not true. Morocco is a case in point of an Islamic country liberalizing due to internal pressures and gradual political change. Muslim society is not incompatible with democracy, change has just happened within Islamic society at a different pace.

Avatar image for cslayer211
#26 Posted by cslayer211 (797 posts) -

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="C2N2"]

Christians already had their heyday... A period of human history you may have heard of? We know it as the Dark Ages...

Perhaps you have heard of their various other exploits? The Inquisition, the Crusades, etc...

All during this time there was intellectual advancement in the Middle East and lack of war (large scale war) given the entire Islamic world was under the rule of a caliphate.

Islamic Extremism is a NEW THING... That is a direct result of Western interference in the Islamic world.

- Defeat of The Ottoman Empire who allied with the central powers during WW1.

- The carving up of the Middle East by the British and French afterward (why there are straight line borders in Middle Eastern Nations, British/French laid a ruler on a map and said you get that side we get this side...)

- Creation of British/French Hashimite Kingdoms in Iraq, Syria, Jordan, etc...

Many of the problems in the Middle East today are direct result of European and later American exploitation of the region...

C2N2

I wasn't aware we still lived in the 1100s.....

I wasn't aware that I implied we did?

Simply pointing out that FAR more people have been killed because of Christianity than Islam in the history of our world. And that most of the violence Islam is responsible for towards the West today is a direct response to our own actions in the region.

What has the west done to make them so mad? Freedom of expression and freedom of speech?
Avatar image for worlock77
#27 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="UnknownSniper65"]

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]Christians don't blow up buildings.....

TopTierHustler

Timothy McVeigh did:|

maybe I should rephrase: Christians don't blow up buildings in the name of their religion

Eric Rudolph did.

Avatar image for Gifye
#28 Posted by Gifye (175 posts) -
Any culture that refuses to eat bacon can never integrate with the west.
Avatar image for worlock77
#29 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="C2N2"]

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]I wasn't aware we still lived in the 1100s.....

cslayer211

I wasn't aware that I implied we did?

Simply pointing out that FAR more people have been killed because of Christianity than Islam in the history of our world. And that most of the violence Islam is responsible for towards the West today is a direct response to our own actions in the region.

What has the west done to make them so mad? Freedom of expression and freedom of speech?

- Carving up Middle Eastern countries into borders with our interests in mind, rather than with ethnic/tribal boundaries in mind.

- Persuing an aggressive foreign policy in that region for a century in persuit of oil interests.

- Overthrowing democratically elected governments to prop up tyrannical, but western business frendly, puppet regiems.

- Parking our tanks in their holy city.

- Just f*cking around with and in their countries for ages. That tends to p*ss people off.

Saying they hate us because they hate our freedoms is just ignorance.

Avatar image for thebest31406
#30 Posted by thebest31406 (3775 posts) -

[QUOTE="UnknownSniper65"]

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]Christians don't blow up buildings.....

TopTierHustler

Timothy McVeigh did:|

maybe I should rephrase: Christians don't blow up buildings in the name of their religion, and acts of violence are few to none, while I hear about Muslims doing something awful every day.

McVeigh did what he did in the name of white supremacy.

That's because you watch too much TV.
Avatar image for deactivated-59d151f079814
#31 Posted by deactivated-59d151f079814 (47239 posts) -

[QUOTE="UnknownSniper65"]

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]Christians don't blow up buildings.....

TopTierHustler

Timothy McVeigh did:|

maybe I should rephrase: Christians don't blow up buildings in the name of their religion, and acts of violence are few to none, while I hear about Muslims doing something awful every day.

McVeigh did what he did in the name of white supremacy.

Ok wrong.. We just recently had that whole Youth camp incidient in sweden where a Christian fanatic killed over a hundred people.. What you speak of is EXTREMISM.. There are Muslims and Christians living peacefully within the United States for instance.. That abide by and support democracy..

Avatar image for themajormayor
#32 Posted by themajormayor (25503 posts) -

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="UnknownSniper65"]

Timothy McVeigh did:|

sSubZerOo

maybe I should rephrase: Christians don't blow up buildings in the name of their religion, and acts of violence are few to none, while I hear about Muslims doing something awful every day.

McVeigh did what he did in the name of white supremacy.

Ok wrong.. We just recently had that whole Youth camp incidient in sweden where a Christian fanatic killed over a hundred people.. What you speak of is EXTREMISM.. There are Muslims and Christians living peacefully within the United States for instance.. That abide by and support democracy..

LOL informed as always

Avatar image for thebest31406
#33 Posted by thebest31406 (3775 posts) -
[QUOTE="C2N2"]

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]I wasn't aware we still lived in the 1100s.....

cslayer211

I wasn't aware that I implied we did?

Simply pointing out that FAR more people have been killed because of Christianity than Islam in the history of our world. And that most of the violence Islam is responsible for towards the West today is a direct response to our own actions in the region.

What has the west done to make them so mad? Freedom of expression and freedom of speech?

I think the constant invasions, funding of coups and overthrowing democratically elected administrations in order to serve the west kinda cramps their style.
Avatar image for worlock77
#34 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="UnknownSniper65"]

Timothy McVeigh did:|

sSubZerOo

maybe I should rephrase: Christians don't blow up buildings in the name of their religion, and acts of violence are few to none, while I hear about Muslims doing something awful every day.

McVeigh did what he did in the name of white supremacy.

Ok wrong.. We just recently had that whole Youth camp incidient in sweden where a Christian fanatic killed over a hundred people.. What you speak of is EXTREMISM.. There are Muslims and Christians living peacefully within the United States for instance.. That abide by and support democracy..

Norway dude, Norway.

Avatar image for deactivated-59d151f079814
#35 Posted by deactivated-59d151f079814 (47239 posts) -

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]maybe I should rephrase: Christians don't blow up buildings in the name of their religion, and acts of violence are few to none, while I hear about Muslims doing something awful every day.

McVeigh did what he did in the name of white supremacy.

worlock77

Ok wrong.. We just recently had that whole Youth camp incidient in sweden where a Christian fanatic killed over a hundred people.. What you speak of is EXTREMISM.. There are Muslims and Christians living peacefully within the United States for instance.. That abide by and support democracy..

Norway dude, Norway.

Apologies, but my point still stands there are extremists across the board when it comes to religions.. And to blanket one is ridiculous especially when we have counter examples for it..

Avatar image for ghoklebutter
#36 Posted by ghoklebutter (19327 posts) -
Islam is indeed inherently incompatible with liberal democracy. Any theocracy that relegates certain minorities to second-class status is anti-democratic.
Avatar image for The-Apostle
#37 Posted by The-Apostle (12195 posts) -
[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="UnknownSniper65"]

Timothy McVeigh did:|

Mike-uk

maybe I should rephrase: Christians don't blow up buildings in the name of their religion, and acts of violence are few to none, while I hear about Muslims doing something awful every day.

McVeigh did what he did in the name of white supremacy.

There are Christian terrorists too you know? Not as common as Islamic terrorists but still they are around.

There's a few terrorists in every religion or non-religion. What's your point?
Avatar image for ShadowMoses900
#38 Posted by ShadowMoses900 (17081 posts) -

Extreamism of any kind is not compatibale with Democracy.

I met a girl from Canada that is an Arab Muslim, she id very pretty and was telling me one time how her family made her wear a head scarf when she went out (she wasn't wearing it when I met her because she stopped doing it a long time ago). And she was telling me how her family wanted her to marry someone even though she didn't want to. But she seemed very secular, she ate pork and drank alchohol and everything.

I do not know if she is still a Muslim, but she seemed to fit right in with Democracy. Muslims just need to have a reform movement, we Jews did it and it worked great for us.

Avatar image for cslayer211
#39 Posted by cslayer211 (797 posts) -

[QUOTE="cslayer211"][QUOTE="C2N2"]

I wasn't aware that I implied we did?

Simply pointing out that FAR more people have been killed because of Christianity than Islam in the history of our world. And that most of the violence Islam is responsible for towards the West today is a direct response to our own actions in the region.

worlock77

What has the west done to make them so mad? Freedom of expression and freedom of speech?

- Carving up Middle Eastern countries into borders with our interests in mind, rather than with ethnic/tribal boundaries in mind.

- Persuing an aggressive foreign policy in that region for a century in persuit of oil interests.

- Overthrowing democratically elected governments to prop up tyrannical, but western business frendly, puppet regiems.

- Parking our tanks in their holy city.

- Just f*cking around with and in their countries for ages. That tends to p*ss people off.

Saying they hate us because they hate our freedoms is just ignorance.

It's ignorance when you have many protesters in the Middle East rioting over a video that criticizes their religion? In places were you would be killed if you said or made something similar to it...? I would say it would be ignorant to contest that their motives are not religious or political, or based on their hate for western freedoms that allow open and unpunished criticism of their religion.
Avatar image for worlock77
#40 Posted by worlock77 (22552 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="cslayer211"] What has the west done to make them so mad? Freedom of expression and freedom of speech?cslayer211

- Carving up Middle Eastern countries into borders with our interests in mind, rather than with ethnic/tribal boundaries in mind.

- Persuing an aggressive foreign policy in that region for a century in persuit of oil interests.

- Overthrowing democratically elected governments to prop up tyrannical, but western business frendly, puppet regiems.

- Parking our tanks in their holy city.

- Just f*cking around with and in their countries for ages. That tends to p*ss people off.

Saying they hate us because they hate our freedoms is just ignorance.

It's ignorance when you have many protesters in the Middle East rioting over a video that criticizes their religion? In places were you would be killed if you said or made something similar to it...? I would say it would be ignorant to contest that their motives are not religious or political, or based on their hate for western freedoms that allow open and unpunished criticism of their religion.

I guaren-goddamn-tee you that if we did not meddle about in the affairs of the Middle East then we would not have a single problem with terroism arising from the Middle East. Even our own government recognizes this (re: "blowback").

Avatar image for whipassmt
#41 Posted by whipassmt (15375 posts) -

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="UnknownSniper65"]

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]Christians don't blow up buildings.....

Mike-uk

Timothy McVeigh did:|

maybe I should rephrase: Christians don't blow up buildings in the name of their religion, and acts of violence are few to none, while I hear about Muslims doing something awful every day.

McVeigh did what he did in the name of white supremacy.

There are Christian terrorists too you know? Not as common as Islamic terrorists but still they are around. [/QUOTE]

There's terrorists of pretty much any ideology. I think animal rights and environmentalist ("ecoterrorists") terrorists account for the greatest number of attacks in the U.S. I think Marxist/Communist/Socialist terrorists (such as the Shining Path) are probably responsible for the most deaths.

Avatar image for Blue-Sky
#42 Posted by Blue-Sky (10379 posts) -

Religion is not compatible with democracy. It's a theocracy with "god" at the top.

It's not that christianity is more peaceful, it's that western christians are far less devoted to their religion. They have become more and more secular.

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#43 Posted by MrPraline (21351 posts) -
Islam isn't a religion, but a totalitarian political ideology. True, it's not compatible with our way of life. America pulled it off, so major props to them, but for the majority of Western countries it's one clusterf*ck after another.
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#44 Posted by SaudiFury (8709 posts) -
It's racist when you take the words of one man and generalize them to a whole culture in order to insult that culture. We are talking about one man here, who is supportive of and comes from a theocratic state. In his view Islam is not compatible with liberal democracy, just like in the view of Fred Phelps Christianity is not compatible with true democracy. That doesn't change the fact that his statement is demonstrably false, as there are several examples of Islamic majority countries that have liberalized successfully.theone86
theone86 nailed it, and Skarwolf continues to reveal himself for the bigot/racist he is when it comes to Muslims/Arabs. and just to clarify, no you don't have to believe, or agree, or even like Islam as a religion. it doesn't change the fact that you got millions of them in Western countries, and Muslim-majority democracy, that vote and are law abiding citizens.
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#45 Posted by kingkong0124 (8329 posts) -

worlock77

No excuse for their barbarism..a lot of areas in the world has similar histories but are less violent today..And, if you study the history of the Middle East, it was largely violent before the West came..

And judging by what you're saying right now, i think it'd be safe to assume you think of Al Qaeda as freedom fighters? :roll:

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#46 Posted by SaudiFury (8709 posts) -

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

kingkong0124

No excuse for their barbarism..a lot of areas in the world has similar histories but are less violent today..And, if you study the history of the Middle East, it was largely violent before the West came..

not any more so then any other part of the world really. Why do so many Westerners, who are largely ignorant of Arab history prior to the 1930's, still have this myth that the Middle East is just bloodshed and terror throughout it's history of human existence? Just looking at America, i could cite slavery, racism, native american wars, battles and massacres, the numerous wars and and adventures America has had before WW1 and dawn of the modern world as we know it even began.

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#47 Posted by deactivated-59d151f079814 (47239 posts) -
[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

SaudiFury

No excuse for their barbarism..a lot of areas in the world has similar histories but are less violent today..And, if you study the history of the Middle East, it was largely violent before the West came..

not any more so then any other part of the world really. Why do so many Westerners, who are largely ignorant of Arab history prior to the 1930's, still have this myth that the Middle East is just bloodshed and terror throughout it's history of human existence? Just looking at America, i could cite slavery, racism, native american wars, battles and massacres, the numerous wars and and adventures America has had before WW1 and dawn of the modern world as we know it even began.

... People seem to forget it was the Middle Eastern and Arab culture that helped put Europe into the high middle ages and the Renaissance after the Crusades..
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#48 Posted by SaudiFury (8709 posts) -
[QUOTE="SaudiFury"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

No excuse for their barbarism..a lot of areas in the world has similar histories but are less violent today..And, if you study the history of the Middle East, it was largely violent before the West came..sSubZerOo

not any more so then any other part of the world really. Why do so many Westerners, who are largely ignorant of Arab history prior to the 1930's, still have this myth that the Middle East is just bloodshed and terror throughout it's history of human existence? Just looking at America, i could cite slavery, racism, native american wars, battles and massacres, the numerous wars and and adventures America has had before WW1 and dawn of the modern world as we know it even began.

... People seem to forget it was the Middle Eastern and Arab culture that helped put Europe into the high middle ages and the Renaissance after the Crusades..

it's not just that. Gulf Arabs were little more then traveling nomads, sometimes with blood feuds (again not new or unique, or anymore bloody) with other traveling nomads and small sultans. You also got long periods of time where no major wars or battles took place, because the land was under the control of some empire, whether it was Ottoman, Ummayyed, Abbasid, or even Alexander the Great's Empire. Empires borders almost always were bleeding more frequently then their interior, and this was not unique to the Muslim world either, it was normal state of affairs with all empires, be they Chinese (which went through several dynastic overthrows with the Mandate of Heaven as the reasoning for their overthrows), the British Empire, the various South American states, or even the growing United States into the 'unclaimed' territory. it's this demonization, or making the Middle East as this grossly simplistic caricature of non-stop turmoil and bloodshed, that as a historian buff really pisses me off.
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#49 Posted by Victorious_Fize (6128 posts) -
[QUOTE="SaudiFury"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="SaudiFury"] not any more so then any other part of the world really. Why do so many Westerners, who are largely ignorant of Arab history prior to the 1930's, still have this myth that the Middle East is just bloodshed and terror throughout it's history of human existence? Just looking at America, i could cite slavery, racism, native american wars, battles and massacres, the numerous wars and and adventures America has had before WW1 and dawn of the modern world as we know it even began.

... People seem to forget it was the Middle Eastern and Arab culture that helped put Europe into the high middle ages and the Renaissance after the Crusades..

it's not just that. Gulf Arabs were little more then traveling nomads, sometimes with blood feuds (again not new or unique, or anymore bloody) with other traveling nomads and small sultans. You also got long periods of time where no major wars or battles took place, because the land was under the control of some empire, whether it was Ottoman, Ummayyed, Abbasid, or even Alexander the Great's Empire. Empires borders almost always were bleeding more frequently then their interior, and this was not unique to the Muslim world either, it was normal state of affairs with all empires, be they Chinese (which went through several dynastic overthrows with the Mandate of Heaven as the reasoning for their overthrows), the British Empire, the various South American states, or even the growing United States into the 'unclaimed' territory. it's this demonization, or making the Middle East as this grossly simplistic caricature of non-stop turmoil and bloodshed, that as a historian buff really pisses me off.

You're a liberal but you don't hate us. o.O I don't know what to make of you... I'll just say I represent the bastion of Islamism in KSA and we will not be defeated on our own soil! *^* You know who we are mang. You should join since we're the nicest. =w= But I digress, your posts are very thorough, if not a little orientalist at times, I applaud your effort!
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#50 Posted by CptJSparrow (10897 posts) -
[QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"] You're a liberal but you don't hate us. o.O I don't know what to make of you... I'll just say I represent the bastion of Islamism in KSA and we will not be defeated on our own soil! *^* You know who we are mang. You should join since we're the nicest. =w= But I digress, your posts are very thorough, if not a little orientalist at times, I applaud your effort!

I thought TDH made you leave