Kotaku Reported To Exchange Positive Game Coverage For Sex

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#51 Posted by super600 (32403 posts) -

@Timstuff said:

@super600: Again: would you write anything negative about your co-worker's girlfriend? Kotaku is not a big gloomy office building where a bunch of people hide behind cubicles doing their own thing. It's a clubhouse, and the only way to get a job there is basically if you're friends with one or more of their editors. There is no shortage of fluff pieces about Zoe on Kotaku, and there are pretty much no criticisms of her or her behavior either in the past or present. It is no stretch of the imagination that Nathan Grayson could ask someone like Patricia Hernandez to write something nice about the girl he is sleeping with and to avoid mentioning any accusations being hurled at her, especially since said girl shares the political agenda of pretty much everyone in the office.

I don't think anyone in this thread works at kotaku or has been anywere near Nathan,Patricia and Zoe so it's kinda hard to see if they did something like that.For now this story is mostly about a big mistake she made in her personal life that really isn't connected to the gaming industry at all. So of the other parts of the boyfriend story if true are connected tothe gaming industry.

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#52 Posted by Timstuff (26839 posts) -

@super600: I could care less how many men she slept with. It's who she slept with that makes this a scandal worth discussing, and the broader implications it has on the gaming journalism industry. People have long accused websites like Kotaku and RPS of having an incestuous relationship with the people they write about, and now we have more evidence than ever that the winners and losers are being picked by who is friends with who.

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#53 Posted by yokofox33 (30774 posts) -

Sounds like I need to start reviewing games for Kotaku.

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#54 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

It seems that this story is legit

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#55 Posted by _Judas_ (785 posts) -

God damn it... I guess every industry is in danger of being corrupted. I'd just hope that "our" industry would remain untainted. Possible very naive of me to think so...

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#56 Edited by SambaLele (5552 posts) -

@super600 said:

@Timstuff said:

@super600: Again: would you write anything negative about your co-worker's girlfriend? Kotaku is not a big gloomy office building where a bunch of people hide behind cubicles doing their own thing. It's a clubhouse, and the only way to get a job there is basically if you're friends with one or more of their editors. There is no shortage of fluff pieces about Zoe on Kotaku, and there are pretty much no criticisms of her or her behavior either in the past or present. It is no stretch of the imagination that Nathan Grayson could ask someone like Patricia Hernandez to write something nice about the girl he is sleeping with and to avoid mentioning any accusations being hurled at her, especially since said girl shares the political agenda of pretty much everyone in the office.

I don't think anyone in this thread works at kotaku or has been anywere near Nathan,Patricia and Zoe so it's kinda hard to see if they did something like that.For now this story is mostly about a big mistake she made in her personal life that really isn't connected to the gaming industry at all. So of the other parts of the boyfriend story if true are connected tothe gaming industry.

Did you read Totilo's (Grayson's boss) answer to the issue? Grayson didn't talk to him about it, he had to take the iniciative to ask his subordinate about it, which didn't deny the event (he admitted it), just downplayed it, saying it didn't start when he was writing the piece that mentioned her. Are you saying this kind of story represents no conflict of interests between journalism and developers?

What about this article, by one of the 5 guys?

Of course there should be no personal crusade against the dev and her intimacy, but a professional ethics analysis of this surely must take place. But no one other than forum users seem to be willing to, and they are facing extremes that wants to make this a misogynistic crusade on one side, a SJW crusade on the other, and a barrage of evasives from the professional medias that could (or even should) talk about the implied ethical issues.

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#57 Edited by EJ902 (14471 posts) -

The ex boyfriend added an update to his website correcting a date he'd written and said he doesn't have any reason to believe Zoe was sleeping with Nathan for anything in return, though others pointed out his chatlogs contradicted his own correction. We also know that at least one Kotaku journalist (not Nathan) is a regular donor to Zoe Quinn, listed as one of her patrons on Patreon. So if he's giving coverage to a developer whose work he is funding, then that would be a more obvious and less gossipy example of conflict of interest.

Frankly though I'm not convinced this is going to amount to anything, the whole event will probably die down into nothing. Lots of people are discussing it and coming out with observations of corruption in the game industry but none of them are working together to compile the main issues down on paper with evidence to support them, let alone a plan of what to do with it all or who to present it to.

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#58 Posted by ominous_titan (1215 posts) -

anyone willing to lose their honour and credibility to sleep with her deserves to lose it. chimpanzees trade sex for favours too so i guess the apple didn't fall to far. shes nothing special and not worth becoming ostracized from the community. why are people so stupid?

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#59 Edited by Timstuff (26839 posts) -

@EJ902 said:

Frankly though I'm not convinced this is going to amount to anything, the whole event will probably die down into nothing. Lots of people are discussing it and coming out with observations of corruption in the game industry but none of them are working together to compile the main issues down on paper with evidence to support them, let alone a plan of what to do with it all or who to present it to.

We are never going to get some dramatic resolution to this scandal like mass firings at all the involved news outlets, if that is the kind of expected outcome you are implying. However, the more people hear about the story, the more it damages the public perception of websites like Kotaku, Polygon, RPS, The Escapist and Destructoid, all of whom have a stake in the scandal. Everyone in Zoe's social circle is making an effort to suppress the information or defend her "honor" (I use quotes, since she has none), and the aforementioned websites are either refusing to mention the incident, or at most telling their readers "4chan randomly targeted a female game developer for a misogynistic trolling / slut shaming attack. There is nothing more to this story, and don't believe anything you read about it." And of course, their attempts at damage control and censorship are contributing to the Streissand effect and is making people all the more eager to look into it.

The outcome of this situation, hopefully, will be that the websites that are trying to use "video game news" as a medium to disguise social justice propaganda will have reduced popularity and influence. People should not trust gaming websites that try to mix political propaganda into video games, and all of the websites involved with this scandal are guilty of politicizing video games and other aspects of "geek culture" for the cause of social justice. The end result may not be the closure of Kotaku, but if it means that these political crusaders masquerading as "journalists" have even a little less influence in the gaming industry, then I will consider some good as having come out of this fiasco.

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#60 Posted by dave123321 (35329 posts) -

Why are people getting so mad about any addressing of social issues with this medium anyhow

Avatar image for super600
#61 Posted by super600 (32403 posts) -

@SambaLele said:

@super600 said:

@Timstuff said:

@super600: Again: would you write anything negative about your co-worker's girlfriend? Kotaku is not a big gloomy office building where a bunch of people hide behind cubicles doing their own thing. It's a clubhouse, and the only way to get a job there is basically if you're friends with one or more of their editors. There is no shortage of fluff pieces about Zoe on Kotaku, and there are pretty much no criticisms of her or her behavior either in the past or present. It is no stretch of the imagination that Nathan Grayson could ask someone like Patricia Hernandez to write something nice about the girl he is sleeping with and to avoid mentioning any accusations being hurled at her, especially since said girl shares the political agenda of pretty much everyone in the office.

I don't think anyone in this thread works at kotaku or has been anywere near Nathan,Patricia and Zoe so it's kinda hard to see if they did something like that.For now this story is mostly about a big mistake she made in her personal life that really isn't connected to the gaming industry at all. So of the other parts of the boyfriend story if true are connected tothe gaming industry.

Did you read Totilo's (Grayson's boss) answer to the issue? Grayson didn't talk to him about it, he had to take the iniciative to ask his subordinate about it, which didn't deny the event (he admitted it), just downplayed it, saying it didn't start when he was writing the piece that mentioned her. Are you saying this kind of story represents no conflict of interests between journalism and developers?

What about this article, by one of the 5 guys?

Of course there should be no personal crusade against the dev and her intimacy, but a professional ethics analysis of this surely must take place. But no one other than forum users seem to be willing to, and they are facing extremes that wants to make this a misogynistic crusade on one side, a SJW crusade on the other, and a barrage of evasives from the professional medias that could (or even should) talk about the implied ethical issues.

If I remember all totilo said is that he talked to nathan and the leadership team also looked at the evidence sent to them and they found nothing that indicated that that the accusations were true about zoe using that guy for publicity. No website is going to cover this story in detail because there really isn't that much proof that she actually used any of those guys for publicity.Even the boyfriend does not think she used any of the guys for nefarious reasons.

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#62 Edited by super600 (32403 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

It seems that this story is legit

Parts of it are legit, while the parts where people kinda jumped to conclusions are false.I'm talking about the part where she slept with those guys. That part was twisted a bit. Some parts of the story's timeline may also be wrong.

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#63 Posted by LostProphetFLCL (18526 posts) -

@dave123321 said:

Why are people getting so mad about any addressing of social issues with this medium anyhow

It is more the specific things people are crying feminism about and the issue that pretty much no one credible has gotten involved. Instead we get dumbasses like Anita Sarkeesian who isn't even a fucking gamer and swindled money out of people via kickstarter (which apparently this Zoe Quinn also likes funneling money by playing victim, albeit she isn't make false promises like Anita).

It doesn't help that the main issue in regards to misogyny in gaming isn't even being brought up by these crusaders. They would rather bitch about devs giving a character a penis or a female character NOT being likeable, rather than bring up the major issue which is the gaming community itself, not the devs.

Females can't get a true place in the industry as long as there is the mass "boys club" attitude going around. Get a female in an online game and you can lose some faith in humanity as it completely takes over the chat because "OMG VAGINA!" I have seen it too many times where people freak because a girl is playing, and I have seen some seriously attention depraved women completely play into and encourage that behavior online as well.

It shouldn't make a difference if someone in the match is a female. As long as they aren't a team killing fucktard they should just fit in with the rest of the players.

In the end, all it takes is getting more and more women into gaming, which will lead to more female developers and a more female friendly attitude in the dev community which will lead to more and more positive female characters in games. I think it is ridiculous for people to bitch about protagonists being overwhelmingly male when the devs and the communities they create for are overwhelmingly male dominated still.

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#64 Posted by Masculus (2878 posts) -

The good ole quote: "News is what somebody somewhere wants to suppress; all the rest is advertising.". People shouldn't be surprised, there is no such thing as gaming journalism. There is just an advertisement machine for publishers - like those small fishes constantly glued to the back of the big bad shark. Now, when you are and indie dev and don't have anyone backing you, a good fellatio might seal the deal (just like Hollywood!).

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#65 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@super600 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

It seems that this story is legit

Parts of it are legit, while the parts where people kinda jumped to conclusions are false.I'm talking about the part where she slept with those guys. That part was twisted a bit. Some parts of the story's timeline may also be wrong.

so she didn't sleep with those guys? Then how did she make them post all the stuff?

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#66 Posted by super600 (32403 posts) -

@The_Last_Ride said:

@super600 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

It seems that this story is legit

Parts of it are legit, while the parts where people kinda jumped to conclusions are false.I'm talking about the part where she slept with those guys. That part was twisted a bit. Some parts of the story's timeline may also be wrong.

so she didn't sleep with those guys? Then how did she make them post all the stuff?

She slept with the guys, but there is not enough evidence to claim that she slept with them for nefarious reasons.

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#67 Edited by SambaLele (5552 posts) -

@super600 said:

If I remember all totilo said is that he talked to nathan and the leadership team also looked at the evidence sent to them and they found nothing that indicated that that the accusations were true about zoe using that guy for publicity. No website is going to cover this story in detail because there really isn't that much proof that she actually used any of those guys for publicity.Even the boyfriend does not think she used any of the guys for nefarious reasons.

What about the other article I linked to?

But I guess you're missing the point. The question is: is it ok for such liaisons to occur between such professionals? Isn't there a potential conflict of interests?

Edit: RPS - A game and a chat. 03/22. I don't know how close friendships can't affect bias.

Edit+: Robin Arnott, of the other article in my previous post, was also a jury member in giving Depression Quest the IndieCade annual Night Games party award. Also, here. And here.

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#68 Posted by toast_burner (24666 posts) -

@super600 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@super600 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

It seems that this story is legit

Parts of it are legit, while the parts where people kinda jumped to conclusions are false.I'm talking about the part where she slept with those guys. That part was twisted a bit. Some parts of the story's timeline may also be wrong.

so she didn't sleep with those guys? Then how did she make them post all the stuff?

She slept with the guys, but there is not enough evidence to claim that she slept with them for nefarious reasons.

Pretty much this. This whole thing is nothing more than a witch hunt.

Avatar image for The_Last_Ride
#69 Posted by The_Last_Ride (76371 posts) -

@super600 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@super600 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

It seems that this story is legit

Parts of it are legit, while the parts where people kinda jumped to conclusions are false.I'm talking about the part where she slept with those guys. That part was twisted a bit. Some parts of the story's timeline may also be wrong.

so she didn't sleep with those guys? Then how did she make them post all the stuff?

She slept with the guys, but there is not enough evidence to claim that she slept with them for nefarious reasons.

but it does seems suspicious that those journalists gave positive publicity

Avatar image for -Blasphemy-
#70 Edited by -Blasphemy- (3353 posts) -

@super600 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

@super600 said:

@The_Last_Ride said:

It seems that this story is legit

Parts of it are legit, while the parts where people kinda jumped to conclusions are false.I'm talking about the part where she slept with those guys. That part was twisted a bit. Some parts of the story's timeline may also be wrong.

so she didn't sleep with those guys? Then how did she make them post all the stuff?

She slept with the guys, but there is not enough evidence to claim that she slept with them for nefarious reasons.

it doesnt take a genius to figure out what happen. kotaku is just saving face. we are expected to believe the relationship with the journalist only started after he writes an article about her? come one man. people lie to make themselves look good. if i knew i had been ousted in a situation like this i would say anything to keep my job.