You know, I have a question for Christians, and I don't mean to offend, it is a serious question and it comes from a Jewish point of view. Now I have read The Bible, both the KJV and the NIV, and I find many aspects of Jesus to be a bit confusing.
1) The trinity makes no sense to me, how can you have 3 gods? Or 3 parts of one god? To me this seems totally pagan, there is only one God with no image or idol. Not 3 parts or 3 aspects. The word trinity doesn't even appear in the bible, so where are people getting this from?
2) The idea that man can become God, or is God, is a pagan concept to Jews. Man is flawed, he cannot become god ever. Also to worship a man is to go against the law of false idols, and the concept of no man made image of God. Christians are going against these very concepts.
3) Sin, there is no origional sin ever mentioned in the bible. Such a concept is also flawed, some Christians believe that all men are born with sin or commited sin, and we deserve hell. They claim Jesus died for our sins and that only through acceptance that is the only way to go to heaven. This concept goes against God's law completely, for one God does not use human sacrifices, and there is no such thing as origional sin either, it is never mentioned once in the bible. And according to this view, all the Jews that died in the Shoah (Holocaust) are in hell (another concept that is not in the origional texts) and people like Hitler are in heaven becauase they were technically Christians. This is a very backwards, and quite frankly offensive, concept to me. It does not make God out to be loving or merficul.
4) God said his covenant with the Children of Israel is eternal. It is everlasting. So for Christians to deny this is like them calling God a liar, God does not lie. Many of the prophecies Jesus did not meet, he did a few things like come into Jerusalem on a Donkey. But he did not rebuild the temple, drive out the Romans or bring peace to the world and show all children the one true God. There was no resurrection of men either.
I respect Christians and I think Jesus had some great teachings and wisdom. But I don't think he was the messiah. So if Christians can clear up some of my confusions so I can better understand their views I will appreciate it. Thanks!
ShadowMoses900
1 That you have to make the trinity three gods instead of what it really is indicates you are less than sincere in asking the question. Three gods automatically pulls into mind the image of traditional polytheism which the trinity is not. Because we see within the three persons of the trinity them sharing the same divine substance, not being totally individual from each other in terms of their substance unlike the traditional polytheisms we all know. There is no wonder you would call it pagan because you are understanding the trinity on the basis of paganism and not the trinity itself which you will find does not have pagan counterpart. This is why Christians are struck to hear this claim, and why educated Christians dont take it very seriously.
Second, that a word doesnt appear in the bible does not mark the end of discussion in interpreting biblical ideas. Many ideas and concepts you would accept are not found in the bible, consider the most ironic one, that of a bible itself. A collection (I assume you believe in the 66 book canon of Protestantism) is to be nowhere found and specifically define within the books of the old or new testament itself. We understand from history, it was the church which gathered these books and collected them into one volume we know as the bible today, and that the early church had more books than this and that those churches which are most ancient have more books than the protestants who took out books of the bible. The point with this illustration is to say that not all concepts must be clearly defined within the bible itself in order for it to be true. Because we see within books of the bible that there were authoritative works, illustrated within the New testament and how it quotes the old testament constantly to support what is being said, though not all books of the old testament are quoted.
2- The incarnation, first of all you have completely misrepresented the very idea of it in the first place. We are told in the scripture the word which was God became flesh, not the man that was flesh became God. Again this is another proof that you are less than charitable when it comes to understanding the Christian position. And if I may go on a tangent I will say something, that before criticising any idea, we must take strides and efforts to first of all comprehend it as the person who believes in it understand its. We must be charitable. We must be charitable in trying to understand the Islamic concept of tauwhid before criticising it. In the same way we must be charitable towards the trinity before criticising it, this was the mistake of many in the past who did not understand it but nonetheless criticised it. So with that we actually have to present what the incarnation is and this I believe was best said by the apostle Paul and the saints.
Phillipians 2:6 Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man. 8He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross. 9For which cause, God also has exalted him and has given him a name which is above all names: 10That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth: 11And that every tongue should confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.
Iraneaus, against the heretic, book five preface : For it is thus that you will both controvert them in a legitimate manner, and will be prepared to receive the proofs brought forward against them, casting away their doctrines as filth by means of the celestial faith; but following the only true and steadfast Teacher, the Word of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, who did, through His transcendent love, become what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself.
Athanasius of Alexandria : The Word was made flesh in order that we might be made gods. . . . Just as the Lord, putting on the body, became a man, so also we men are both deified through his flesh, and henceforth inherit everlasting life."[13] Athanasius also observed:"He became man that men might be made gods.
That is Jesus Christ was not a finite man who became divine, but the divine that became man, by taking on the very nature of man himself without contorting or it co mingling with his divine nature. Thus your criticisms are inherently flawed from the first premise of your question. Jesus as God the incarnate man can be worshipped and was worshipped by his apostles. But interesting you bring up in your criticsm that Christ is himself if he is God would be the very image of God on earth. This is a great proof for the deity of Christ, and is a great thing.It should not be understood by any means that Christs physical body is the actual true substance of divinity itself, but what it shows is what the saints taught, that Jesus being the image of the invisible God, God on earth to us has shown God truly present with the affairs of the creatures he loves, to the point of dying on the cross.
3. That in the scripture mankind has inherited the nature of adam, of our progenitor, a flawed nature, original sin is made present and clear. That saint Paul speaks that by one man death entered into the world and by one man Christ life entered into the world we see the concept even if the words arent used. Something you are still hung up about it seems. I agree that western notions of original sin, that the guilt of adam is on all creation is very much flawed, we inherited the nature of Adam, not his sin. We are responsible for our own sins.
4. Gods covenant with Israel is everlasting. But who is isreal? Is it the jews who rejected Christ their messiah? No, true Israel was with the apostles that accepted the messiah and thus God remained loyal to them who continued to obey and listen to him. And that gentiles were grafted into Israel by faith, no longer by circumcision. This pervades through the very book of romans itself, that the true branch is the branch of faith which has accepted Christ as Lord. So Israel was never forsaken, Israel persists to this day, in the church of Christ. As for the prophecies Christ did not meet, here we come to the resurrection, through which all the laws of the old testament are fulfilled. That is when Christ rose from the dead the third day with the body glorified as shown in Daniel 12, this is the vindication of Christ to the world that we might know salvation, that death does not reign anymore and has been conquered and trampled over, that God would not raise a false prophet in such a way.
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