Jeb Bush illegal immigration act of love

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#1 Edited by Serraph105 (31775 posts) -

So last month or so Jeb Bush spoke about illegal immigration and said this.

JEB BUSH: There should be penalties for breaking the law. But, the way I look at this, and this is not, you know — I’m going to say this and it will be on tape, and so be it. The way I look at this is someone who comes to our country because they couldn't come legally, they come to our country because their family's dad who loves their children was worried that their children didn't have food on the table, and they wanted to make sure their family was intact. And they crossed the border because they had no other means to work to be able to provide for their family.

Yes, they broke the law, but it's not a felony. It’s kind of -- it's a, it’s an act of love. It's an act of commitment to your family. I honestly think that that is a different kind of crime that should be, there should be a price paid, but it shouldn't be -- it shouldn't rile people up that people are actually coming to this country to provide for their families. And the idea that we're not going to fix this but with with comprehensive reform ends up trapping these people, when they could make a great contribution for their own their families but also for us.

.

So what do you guys think of this belief?

Personally I think this is a stance that should be adopted by both republicans and democrats. I feel like if you can get people to relate to those you are advocating for, this more than anything can be used to push for a cause. Often times with illegal immigration it seems as though we focus on the fact that a felony has been committed, but we don't stop to ask why it was committed. Once you see someone as a felon you stop considering them to be good people even though this may not be the case.

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#2 Posted by Serraph105 (31775 posts) -

tldr perhaps? watch the video I posted in the first sentence above.

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#3 Posted by korvus (10685 posts) -

@Serraph105 said:

tldr perhaps? watch the video I posted in the first sentence above.

I read all of it but I'm European, so I don't think I should have an opinion on this particular subject =)

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#4 Posted by airshocker (31700 posts) -

I don't think people come over into the US because they purposefully want to break the law. I understand why they do it. There, however, should be penalties. Fines, loss of services, etc. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Also, Jeb Bush is going to run for President. You heard it here first.

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#5 Posted by Serraph105 (31775 posts) -

@airshocker said:

I don't think people come over into the US because they purposefully want to break the law. I understand why they do it. There, however, should be penalties. Fines, loss of services, etc. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Also, Jeb Bush is going to run for President. You heard it here first.

Quite probably which is why this conversation is worth having.

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#6 Edited by GamingTitan (657 posts) -

Well hmmm. Their ship sank and we have a life boat. I understand the desire to want to go and help the drowning people, but try to help too many and the life raft will capsize and then we are all drowning.

It's a tough one.

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#7 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (22291 posts) -

How do those immigrants who went the legal way feel?

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#8 Edited by TwistedShade (3139 posts) -

Call me a conspiracy guy but it sounds like a Republican who is planning on running for President is trying to appeal to the minorities his party surely isn't.

Not saying that's a bad thing but it's the way I see this.

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#9 Posted by Serraph105 (31775 posts) -

@TwistedShade said:

Call me a conspiracy guy but it sounds like a Republican who is planning on running for President is trying to appeal to the minorities his party surely isn't.

Not saying that's a bad thing but it's the way I see this.

mmm I wouldn't be so sure on that, the Bush family in general has always been pro-immigration reform.

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#10 Edited by david61983 (288 posts) -

@Serraph105 said:

@TwistedShade said:

Call me a conspiracy guy but it sounds like a Republican who is planning on running for President is trying to appeal to the minorities his party surely isn't.

Not saying that's a bad thing but it's the way I see this.

mmm I wouldn't be so sure on that, the Bush family in general has always been pro-immigration reform.

Also, Jeb's wife was born in Mexico. He's always been in favor of immigration.

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#11 Edited by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -

Jeb vs Hillary 2016 with Hillary winning due to a hidden video of Jeb saying something Republican.

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#12 Edited by Perfect_Blue (29946 posts) -

@TwistedShade said:

Call me a conspiracy guy but it sounds like a Republican who is planning on running for President is trying to appeal to the minorities his party surely isn't.

Not saying that's a bad thing but it's the way I see this.

Meh. A politician's moral compass isn't really important, it's his results that really matter.

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#13 Posted by TruthTellers (3393 posts) -

First of all, I don't want another Bush or Clinton in the White House, they've caused enough damage and I don't think putting more in will solve anything.

Now, about Jeb's comments on foreigners coming to the US in violation of the nations laws... there are good people that come here illegally and bad people that come here illegally. I personally like those that learn English and come to the US to work and make their lives, their families lives, and the United States better, but the issue is that there are problems that can come from such actions. First is that many of the illegals don't come here to work and instead take the food stamps and other handouts paid for by taxpayers. This creates a strain that has caused legitimate entitlements to go down for those that truly need them who are in actual need of them and they struggle with what they're already given; It would be more just to give $500 a month in food to someone who can't afford to feed their self who is American than give $250 to that person and someone who isn't an American. There is also the issue of those immigrants who commit crimes and destabilize the justice system. The strain that these illegals put on the welfare system and the justice system is unsustainable.

Second, the integration of illegal immigrants, of which many do not acclimate to the culture and do not speak it's native tongue, diversify said nation. Diversity does not create stronger nations as we have seen not only the US, but many countries in Europe move towards a multicultural society that panders to those that speak little or none of the nations native languages and adapts little or none of that nations customs causing division that harbors negative tendencies such as prejudice. Nations only grow stronger when it's own citizens, of it's own culture and creed, of a shared heritage, unify in the pursuit of freedom, tolerance, equality, and individual rights. Basically, the guy that hops the fence to help feed his family, while noble, are only in pursuit of the needs of the few and not the many. As we all know, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. His best course of action is to return to his homeland and right its wrongs in order to create a stronger, more united nation. Only then will his family's, his people's, and his country's suffering come to an end.

Jeb Bush is either pandering to minorities to increase his chances of winning in the 2016 elections or is oblivious to the truth and as such, he does little to help his country as his brother before him and his father before him.

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#14 Edited by TruthTellers (3393 posts) -
@4myAmuzumament said:

Jeb vs Hillary 2016 with Hillary winning due to a hidden video of Jeb saying something Republican.

The nation cannot survive another Bush or Clinton presidency especially with the staggering foibles of both of them. IMO, either David Petreaus or Allen West are the best leaders to become the next president of the United States.

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#15 Posted by lamprey263 (34425 posts) -

i think if you're a Republican with these beliefs it's probably better to keep them to yourself.

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#16 Edited by TruthTellers (3393 posts) -
@lamprey263 said:

i think if you're a Republican with these beliefs it's probably better to keep them to yourself.

Why do you think this?

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#17 Posted by lamprey263 (34425 posts) -

@TruthTellers said:
@lamprey263 said:

i think if you're a Republican with these beliefs it's probably better to keep them to yourself.

Why do you think this?

Because he predictably got blowback from his party on it from straying from the conservative mainstream on this issue. Don't get me wrong though, I agree with his position, I'm speaking more to how this effects any political viability to higher office. And if he's going to want to be considered as a presidential contender in 2016 he's going to have to avoid opposition against him, and avoid being vocal about moderate positions, moderates in the GOP are dropping like flies, fringe is in vogue these days. I think a problem with Republican presidential hopefuls in generally is they step into the limelight too early, and then end up running their mouth too long until they say something they regret, whereby they fall off the radar entirely.

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#18 Posted by 4myAmuzumament (1791 posts) -

I hope Newt Gingrich and Santorum run again.

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#19 Edited by TruthTellers (3393 posts) -
@lamprey263 said:

@TruthTellers said:
@lamprey263 said:

i think if you're a Republican with these beliefs it's probably better to keep them to yourself.

Why do you think this?

Because he predictably got blowback from his party on it from straying from the conservative mainstream on this issue. Don't get me wrong though, I agree with his position, I'm speaking more to how this effects any political viability to higher office. And if he's going to want to be considered as a presidential contender in 2016 he's going to have to avoid opposition against him, and avoid being vocal about moderate positions, moderates in the GOP are dropping like flies, fringe is in vogue these days. I think a problem with Republican presidential hopefuls in generally is they step into the limelight too early, and then end up running their mouth too long until they say something they regret, whereby they fall off the radar entirely.

Could say the same about Ms. Benghazi, I mean Hillary prior to 2008. I don't think there was a period between 2004 and 2008 that she wasn't running for president.

And the issue with Republicans currently is that they're led by crying pussies like John Boehner or milk toasts like Mitt Romney.

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#20 Edited by LJS9502_basic (161972 posts) -

I think in theory it's a nice idea....but in practice it will lead to increased economic problems. At some point some politician.....any politician....really needs to start thinking about the country first.

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#21 Posted by deactivated-5985f1128b98f (1914 posts) -

@Serraph105 said:

@airshocker said:

I don't think people come over into the US because they purposefully want to break the law. I understand why they do it. There, however, should be penalties. Fines, loss of services, etc. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Also, Jeb Bush is going to run for President. You heard it here first.

Quite probably which is why this conversation is worth having.

The conversation is worth having AFTER we secure the fucking border.

Someone please explain to me why we cannot take steps to stem the tide of people crossing our southern border illegally NOW. Right fucking NOW !!!

Before we decide how to deal with the people already here.

Before we decide how many we are going allow to come here in the future.

Enforce the law. Secure the border as best as possible.

I know this will never happen because the democrats want the voters and the republican establishment (i.e. the crony capitalist chamber of commerce) wants the pool of low skilled, low paid labor.

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#22 Edited by GazaAli (25216 posts) -

@airshocker said:

I don't think people come over into the US because they purposefully want to break the law. I understand why they do it. There, however, should be penalties. Fines, loss of services, etc. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Also, Jeb Bush is going to run for President. You heard it here first.

I don't think I would have expected you to hold such views on the issue of illegal immigration.

In any case, I agree that illegal immigrants shouldn't just be welcomed into any country with open arms, but wouldn't integration programs be much more beneficial to all parties involved? Instead of wasting the resources and manpower of both the state and illegal immigrants in the imposition and execution of penalties, they could be utilized in integrating immigrants into the host society and molding them into productive members of society.

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#23 Edited by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

I'd happily vote for Jeb Bush in 2016, especially if he ends up running against Hillary. He's one of the few politicians who has the courage to frame immigration as a moral issue in the face of those who use pedantic legal reasoning to conceal xenophobic and racist beliefs.

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#24 Edited by Serraph105 (31775 posts) -
@-Sun_Tzu- said:

I'd happily vote for Jeb Bush in 2016, especially if he ends up running against Hillary. He's one of the few politicians who has the courage to frame immigration as a moral issue in the face of those who use pedantic legal reasoning to conceal xenophobic and racist beliefs.

I guess the question I have is why vote for the politicians with those type of beliefs to begin with? Maybe I'm assuming too much.

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#25 Posted by CommandoAgent (1703 posts) -

@4myAmuzumament said:

I hope Newt Gingrich and Santorum run again.

Those idiots and war dogs?

Newt Gingrich:(I defeated the Russians With the Assistance of our NGOs!

According to him the state of Palestine is a created fake state. As for Santorum if his a christian why is he supporting the regime state of Saudi Arabia like the other Republicans are?

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#26 Posted by airshocker (31700 posts) -

@GazaAli said:

@airshocker said:

I don't think people come over into the US because they purposefully want to break the law. I understand why they do it. There, however, should be penalties. Fines, loss of services, etc. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Also, Jeb Bush is going to run for President. You heard it here first.

I don't think I would have expected you to hold such views on the issue of illegal immigration.

In any case, I agree that illegal immigrants shouldn't just be welcomed into any country with open arms, but wouldn't integration programs be much more beneficial to all parties involved? Instead of wasting the resources and manpower of both the state and illegal immigrants in the imposition and execution of penalties, they could be utilized in integrating immigrants into the host society and molding them into productive members of society.

No, because there still needs to be some semblance of justice. We shouldn't pick and choose what laws we should and shouldn't enforce. It sends a bad message.

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#27 Edited by TruthTellers (3393 posts) -
@-Sun_Tzu- said:

I'd happily vote for Jeb Bush in 2016, especially if he ends up running against Hillary. He's one of the few politicians who has the courage to frame immigration as a moral issue in the face of those who use pedantic legal reasoning to conceal xenophobic and racist beliefs.

You're a brainwashed fool if you'd "happily vote for Jeb Bush in 2016." If the only choice given to us were between another Bush and another Clinton the people should be rioting in the streets. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! THE BUSH'S AND CLINTON'S DO NOT OWN THIS COUNTRY AND IF WE MUST BURN THE NATION TO THE GROUND TO PROVE THIS WE WILL!

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#28 Posted by LittleMac19 (1638 posts) -

@4myAmuzumament said:

I hope Newt Gingrich and Santorum run again.

I miss those guys already, they provided a steady flow of Lol's along with Romney.

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#29 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (9372 posts) -

Its nice hearing this kind of rhetoric. Jeb will most likely run in 2016 and I think this approach has to be taken in order to garner the large Hispanic voter base.

Now lets see him 'evolve' his stance on gay marriage and views towards science. Hell I might vote republican if that were the case.

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#30 Posted by Serraph105 (31775 posts) -

@HoolaHoopMan said:

Its nice hearing this kind of rhetoric. Jeb will most likely run in 2016 and I think this approach has to be taken in order to garner the large Hispanic voter base.

Now lets see him 'evolve' his stance on gay marriage and views towards science. Hell I might vote republican if that were the case.

I personally can't vote republican for the most part because they deny science and equality, but yeah I could support those who do trust scientists on things such as climate change and are willing to lead the charge on reducing it. Whatever happens in the 2016 elections it would be nice for it to come down to two people who are willing to listen to the experts and do what is right for the public good and not just corporations.

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#31 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@TruthTellers said:
@-Sun_Tzu- said:

I'd happily vote for Jeb Bush in 2016, especially if he ends up running against Hillary. He's one of the few politicians who has the courage to frame immigration as a moral issue in the face of those who use pedantic legal reasoning to conceal xenophobic and racist beliefs.

You're a brainwashed fool if you'd "happily vote for Jeb Bush in 2016." If the only choice given to us were between another Bush and another Clinton the people should be rioting in the streets. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! THE BUSH'S AND CLINTON'S DO NOT OWN THIS COUNTRY AND IF WE MUST BURN THE NATION TO THE GROUND TO PROVE THIS WE WILL!

lol

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#32 Posted by airshocker (31700 posts) -

@Serraph105 said:

@HoolaHoopMan said:

Its nice hearing this kind of rhetoric. Jeb will most likely run in 2016 and I think this approach has to be taken in order to garner the large Hispanic voter base.

Now lets see him 'evolve' his stance on gay marriage and views towards science. Hell I might vote republican if that were the case.

I personally can't vote republican for the most part because they deny science and equality, but yeah I could support those who do trust scientists on things such as climate change and are willing to lead the charge on reducing it. Whatever happens in the 2016 elections it would be nice for it to come down to two people who are willing to listen to the experts and do what is right for the public good and not just corporations.

You do realize that anything that can be done about climate change would hurt all but the richest of us, correct?

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#33 Edited by Serraph105 (31775 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@Serraph105 said:

@HoolaHoopMan said:

Its nice hearing this kind of rhetoric. Jeb will most likely run in 2016 and I think this approach has to be taken in order to garner the large Hispanic voter base.

Now lets see him 'evolve' his stance on gay marriage and views towards science. Hell I might vote republican if that were the case.

I personally can't vote republican for the most part because they deny science and equality, but yeah I could support those who do trust scientists on things such as climate change and are willing to lead the charge on reducing it. Whatever happens in the 2016 elections it would be nice for it to come down to two people who are willing to listen to the experts and do what is right for the public good and not just corporations.

You do realize that anything that can be done about climate change would hurt all but the richest of us, correct?

Do you realize that not doing so would hurt all of us including the richest?

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#34 Posted by airshocker (31700 posts) -

@Serraph105 said:

@airshocker said:

@Serraph105 said:

@HoolaHoopMan said:

Its nice hearing this kind of rhetoric. Jeb will most likely run in 2016 and I think this approach has to be taken in order to garner the large Hispanic voter base.

Now lets see him 'evolve' his stance on gay marriage and views towards science. Hell I might vote republican if that were the case.

I personally can't vote republican for the most part because they deny science and equality, but yeah I could support those who do trust scientists on things such as climate change and are willing to lead the charge on reducing it. Whatever happens in the 2016 elections it would be nice for it to come down to two people who are willing to listen to the experts and do what is right for the public good and not just corporations.

You do realize that anything that can be done about climate change would hurt all but the richest of us, correct?

Do you realize that not doing so would hurt all of us including the richest?

Yes and I frankly don't care. Life is already hard enough for most people. There's no reason for us to do anything if China, India or Russia aren't going to take the same steps.

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#35 Posted by Makhaidos (2162 posts) -

I'm sick and tired of these illegal immigrants takin' our Jebs.

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#36 Posted by mattykovax (22693 posts) -

I think I have to agree with airshocker on this, he has already said what I feel. Good topic though.

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#37 Posted by Serraph105 (31775 posts) -

@mattykovax said:

I think I have to agree with airshocker on this, he has already said what I feel. Good topic though.

yeah? no extra nuance to it?

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#38 Edited by melonfarmerz (1294 posts) -

As a Canadian looking in, do you guys know anyone under the age of 40 that is actually supportive of the Republicans? I don't understand Republicans at all. From what I've learned, for example, Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ spent years, one after another, building a strong social system and easing Cold War tensions and Regan comes in and literally just cuts all social programs and ramps up military spending again, completely denying all the work his predecessors did. Somehow, this makes him a Republican hero...

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#39 Posted by whipassmt (15375 posts) -

Bush has a point. Maybe it's time for a comeback of "compassionate conservativism". The way I see it, not all illegal immigrants should be treated equally. If they overstayed a visa, or came here to work some low-paying job to send money back to their family in their home land, or to reunite with family members already in the U.S., that is one thing. I think some small penalty like a fine is reasonable here, but I don't think we should treat them too harshly. On the other hand I feel that allowing children who were brought here as illegal immigrants with their families to get in-state tuition in the state they reside in may be unfair to U.S. citizens from other states (for example if a U.S. citizen from Florida were to pay out of state tuition at UMASS, while a non-citizen from Boston got in-state tuition at the same college). On the other hand if an illegal immigrant is a part of an organization involved in drug, weapons, or human trafficking, or a terrorist, then those are the people we need to worry about and to punish more severely.

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#40 Posted by Serraph105 (31775 posts) -

@whipassmt said:

Bush has a point. Maybe it's time for a comeback of "compassionate conservativism". The way I see it, not all illegal immigrants should be treated equally. If they overstayed a visa, or came here to work some low-paying job to send money back to their family in their home land, or to reunite with family members already in the U.S., that is one thing. I think some small penalty like a fine is reasonable here, but I don't think we should treat them too harshly. On the other hand I feel that allowing children who were brought here as illegal immigrants with their families to get in-state tuition in the state they reside in may be unfair to U.S. citizens from other states (for example if a U.S. citizen from Florida were to pay out of state tuition at UMASS, while a non-citizen from Boston got in-state tuition at the same college). On the other hand if an illegal immigrant is a part of an organization involved in drug, weapons, or human trafficking, or a terrorist, then those are the people we need to worry about and to punish more severely.

Why would you ever want conservatives to not be compassionate?

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#41 Posted by whipassmt (15375 posts) -

@Serraph105 said:

@whipassmt said:

Bush has a point. Maybe it's time for a comeback of "compassionate conservativism". The way I see it, not all illegal immigrants should be treated equally. If they overstayed a visa, or came here to work some low-paying job to send money back to their family in their home land, or to reunite with family members already in the U.S., that is one thing. I think some small penalty like a fine is reasonable here, but I don't think we should treat them too harshly. On the other hand I feel that allowing children who were brought here as illegal immigrants with their families to get in-state tuition in the state they reside in may be unfair to U.S. citizens from other states (for example if a U.S. citizen from Florida were to pay out of state tuition at UMASS, while a non-citizen from Boston got in-state tuition at the same college). On the other hand if an illegal immigrant is a part of an organization involved in drug, weapons, or human trafficking, or a terrorist, then those are the people we need to worry about and to punish more severely.

Why would you ever want conservatives to not be compassionate?

I wouldn't. "Compassionate Conservativism" was a term used by George W. Bush while running for president, I think.

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#42 Posted by TwistedShade (3139 posts) -

At this point I'll vote whichever Republican has the best shot of winning. After the trainwreck that Obama has been I don't think the nation will survive if Clinton or any other Democrat gets in again.

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#43 Edited by Serraph105 (31775 posts) -

@TwistedShade said:

At this point I'll vote whichever Republican has the best shot of winning. After the trainwreck that Obama has been I don't think the nation will survive if Clinton or any other Democrat gets in again.

Train wreck? Incredibly average would be legitamitely arguable, train wreck not so much.

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#44 Edited by TwistedShade (3139 posts) -

@Serraph105 said:

@TwistedShade said:

At this point I'll vote whichever Republican has the best shot of winning. After the trainwreck that Obama has been I don't think the nation will survive if Clinton or any other Democrat gets in again.

Train wreck? Incredibly average would be legitamitely arguable, train wreck not so much.

Train wreck is a correct term for his presidency. His international handling has been a mess, his healthcare law has been met with a ton of resistance and he basically lied his way through the whole thing then acted like he didn't realize people wouldn't people to keep their plans, etc. I don't think I've seen such a giant liar in quite some time, he hasn't handled up to anything he promised to fix and he's basically lied throughout his whole terms.

There's tons of examples of his incompetence from Bangzhai, to the whole Gun Control debates, to the giant Obama Care mess.

The latest example of his complete incompetence is this whole deal with the FCC and "Net Neutrality". He previously stated he would end lobbyists from running Washington and here he goes and hires a scumbag lobbyist who's only interest is to make himself money as the head of the FCC. Then this same scumbag completely goes against the interests of hundreds of thousands of american's and big companies so he can protect his only profits and interests to side with the big cable companies and throughout all of his protest Obama has basically shrugged the whole thing off and hasn't commented on it. He's the guy who hired Wheeler so he at least owes American an explanation as to what is going on that he allows a corporate lobbyist to sell out to big cable businesses.