Japan wants to lend US half the cost for new rail system

The Japanese government has promised to lend the United States half of the cost of building the first "Super-Maglev" train, reducing travel time between Baltimore and Washington DC to just 15 minutes.

Tokyo is so keen to show off its technology that it will provide loans for half the estimated $8 billion (£5bn) cost of installing the tracks, Japan's Asahi newspaper said on Tuesday.

The American federal government is keen on the project, according to Central Japan Railway Co., and state authorities are especially enthusiastic.

"The national government has shown interest,” a source at the company said. “But a number of the states in the north-east corridor — such as Maryland — are particularly keen for faster rail links and more advanced technology.”

The 37-mile journey between Washington DC and Baltimore presently takes one hour by conventional rail link, and the Japanese government and Central Japan Railway Co. hope to use the project to showcase what it believes will be the transportation technology of the future.

Eventually, a 453-mile track linking the US capital with Boston will be constructed.

The proposal for the Maglev route was first put forward by Shinzo Abe, the Japanese prime minister, during talks with President Barack Obama in February and interest is increasing among states in the north-east of the US, according to Central Japan Railway Co.

"I want to propose that (the United States) introduce the Maglev train system to represent Japan-US cooperation," said Mr Abe at the meeting.

Mr Abe has devoted effort to travelling around the world to promote the export of his country's infrastructure technology. The latest proposal for extending a loan to the United States is part of such efforts.

Maglev vehicles have no wheels and are propelled along their track through electromagnetic pull – doing away with friction and, hence, providing a smoother and quieter ride at a faster speed.

Conventional Maglev technology is already in use on a number of short routes around the world, but is limited to a speed of around 267mph.

Japanese "Super-Maglev" trains are already operating on test tracks at speeds of more than 310mph.

The latest Series L0 maglev was unveiled in late 2012 and measures nearly 92 feet long – of which 49 feet forms an aerodynamic nose section – and is fitted with 24 seats. A full 16-carriage train will be able to carry 1,000 passengers.

The state-of-the-art trains are scheduled to go into use in 2027 and link Shinagawa Station, in central Tokyo, with Nagoya. At present, it takes 90 minutes for a conventional "shinkansen" bullet train to complete the journey between that two stations, although that will be cut to 40 minutes by the new technology.

The aim is to extend the line to Osaka by 2045 and the cost of the new lines has been put at Y8.44 trillion (£64 billion).

The Japanese government is hoping to have the US maglev operational within the next decade and that it will serve to encourage other parts of the US and countries around the world to purchase Japanese mass transit technology.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/10555330/Japan-offers-to-lend-US-half-the-cost-of-Super-Maglev-train-between-Washington-and-Baltimore.html

Sounds really cool. Would you be interested or do you think this investment is worth it? Another line that connects to Canada would be amazing.

All aboard!

Of course they do. Lend it all. Lets play Hardball, only on MSNBC.

Also,

"lend" lmao

So the PS4 is indeed doing better than the XONE? :p

That's a good thing in itself. Now adding more to an already massive debt is never a good thing if I'm understanding this loan correctly.

In any case, the entire world should be more willing and enthusiastic about adopting Japanese state-of-the art infrastructure technology, its quite amazing what the Japanese have accomplished in this field thus far. I remember watching a documentary about it 3 years ago I think it was mind blowing. Their infrastructure technology penetrates even the smallest and most trivial details of everyday public life.

it's not really that massive though, if you look at it as % of gdp.

I do agree that Japan has made some amazing innovations in that field, and I too hope that more countries will implement it.

The debt itself or this loan in particular?

The debt itself.

pocket change

Public transportation. That is a thing that exists.

As long as other stuff is cut from the budget to pay for this loan, I'm fine with it. But does this loan cover how much it will cost to actually lay the track and possibly clear out some buildings in order to make room for it? Or is it simply for the technology?

Probably the former. Japan has developing this technology themselves for a while now. They did say they want to expand their technology so helping out with the actual construction (and possibly maintenance) seems like it makes the most sense.

The most recent source I came by indicates that the U.S' debt to GDP ratio is at 73%. This dates to September 2013.

I've been doing some reading on the subject and I'm not sure if I can have an informed verdict on this. It appears that 77% is the sweet spot. Any further and you start worrying you'll be downgraded by rating agencies.

Though courteous of them, the U.S. already has no problems borrowing money for a very small amount of interest, and realistically, the amount of money involved is rather small, so I don't think that the offer does much in particular. It's just a matter of deciding if it's worth it.

I could theoretically see high speed rail being viable along the coasts (and maybe from the east coast to Chicago).

where are they going to get money?

hell, they are in worse shape than greece and in 50 years half their population is going to be gone.

i wouldn't be that interested in it for long trips (although i'm sure it would be cheaper than flying, which is certainly nice), but it sounds really neat for commuting times.

Imagine how something like this would impact the country. The ability to cross entire states in a matter of minutes to get to work, or see family, or what-have-you, without dealing with the traffic or ridiculous airfare. Imagine schools using this system to give kids a hands-on experience of an entire chunk of the country before getting to high school.

Things like this are what made the Industrial Revolution so world-changing. This is what we should be gearing our scientific advancement towards.

This. Is. Fucking. Awesome.

Yup.

It doesn't make sense to me why the military doesn't work to create more practical technology at home. If they put money towards improving the lives of Americans rather than pissing it away on prototypes that they don't even end up using then the outrageous military budget starts to justify itself.

Considering the average delay on the Japanese rail system is 3 seconds I don't see why this would be a bad idea, in fact it would probably be all kinds of good for the United States.

Of course, I can also see some negatives of the system. Criminals will have a much easier time traveling across state lines, which will confound jurisdictional authority. If the system ever breaks down or crashes, then the death toll would likely be very high, not to mention the impact such a disaster would have on the economy. And I imagine it would be very expensive to maintain across differing weather conditions, though if we've managed this far on Amtrak then perhaps not.

eh, criminals can already move across state lines somewhat quickly (in most areas), so i think the changes here would be marginal

basically, the people who would have been pulled over prior to crossing state lines, which i don't think is too many

also, the TSA will probably end up having a hand in this given the direction of things, so even that mightn't be the case

Eh, even if it's all true, I still think the benefits far outweigh the risks. Every bit of progress carries risks and changes with it, and we'll adapt to them as we always have.

I just don't think it will be worth $8,000,000,000+ in taxpayer money so they can save time. Not to mention that alot of people in the USA, like myself, aren't even going to receive the potential benefits of this new train system. If the states that this new railway will go through would like to take it upon themselves to get it done then they can certainly do that, but I just don't see why it has to be the federal government receiving the loan, paying for it and overseeing the construction of it.

Eh it won't happen. The eco-facists will come out and complain about the frog habitats and stuff being destroyed.

if we're lucky, they'll look at CO2 emissions

but then again, if that was the case, they would let us use nuke plants

they dont always play by their own rules

Time is money, man.

And if it takes off at the start, that could mean more of them will be built to benefit more people. Not everyone needs to benefit from something to make it viable, to think otherwise is just petty and selfish.

What kind of argument is this? By this logic, no infrastructure project should ever be built in the U.S. because the vast majority of the population would never benefit from any individual one. And its pretty obvious why the federal government is involved - it's an interstate rail line which links to the capital city. Also because $8 billion is a paltry sum for the entire U.S. but pretty damn hefty for Maryland and D.C. alone to cough up.

SignificanceStatistical significance, the extent to which a result is unlikely to be due to chance alone →

Kinda would be cool if they linked Richmond and D.C., or at least NoVa.

So...um if a ticket from Tokyo to Kyoto costs 15,000-ish yen how much do you think a ticket from LA to New York would cost....?

Assuming such a line is even built, maybe double or almost triple the cost? 15k yen is about $150 so... $375-450.

If it was a simple matter of comparing the distance it would be at least ten times.

Where did you get that 15k yen figure or is that simply hypothetical? Anyway, I don't think it would be too expensive since it's subsidized by the feds. Definitely cheaper than air travel unless those guys lower their prices drastically to compete.

That's roughly the price you will get if you google "tokyo to kyoto train ticket". Although Japan does have exceptionally high ticket prices compared to European nations with a similar size and infrastructure level.

@Aljosa23:

The first Google results says 13000 so I was off by 2000. I thought I remembered it being higher.

Ah, okay. That makes sense. We can only speculate on the price but it would definitely be cheaper than flying.

Remember this? http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-08-12/revealed-elon-musk-explains-the-hyperloop

Haven't been following development but I'd much rather prefer the train than a pod.

@Aljosa23:

Switzerland and Germany aren't much cheaper.

I'm not so sure about that.

This touring website shows me much cheaper train ticket prices (generally 30-50% less) than Tokyo-Kyoto for much greater distances. Although it looks like it depends a lot on the level of accommodation you want on the way. Would still put trains-CONUS train tickets into the hundreds of dollars though.

Assuming the states aren't going to pay for any of it, I know exactly why the US government is going to be involved - it isn't worth the time, money, and effort to the states who could be receiving this railway to actually build it in the first place. It would not provide a net gain to the economy if they had to pay for it - it would be a net loss. You even agree with that by mentioning that the cost would be hefty for Maryland and D.C. That is why the federal government would be getting involved, so they can use tax dollars collected from other states to pay for this project. What this means is people from other parts of the country would be subsidizing the creation of this railway. If it is a loss for the very areas it will be built in, then it will certainly be a loss for the federal government overall. There is no reason these states (plus D.C.) can not organize themselves and attempt to fund this project together if they truly thought it was a good investment. But they know it is not a worthwhile investment, that is why everyone else would have to pay for it if they actually agree to build it.

My point is not that there shouldn't be spending on infrastructure, it is that that spending should not be coming from the federal government, regardless of whether or not it connects to D.C. Federal money should not be spent on these sorts of projects. States are fully capable of investing in themselves.

It is not petty and selfish to want projects that EVERYONE IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY paid for, to benefit everyone. In fact, it is just the opposite from what you think. The people who want this project to go through are petty and selfish for wanting to take money from the masses and distribute it to the few. I agree that time is money. However, to save 45 minutes per person when there is already a reliable mode of transportation is NOT worth $8 billion plus interest plus any unforeseen costs. Maybe once the federal government, as well as these citys/states, get their finances in check they can argue that it would be a good investment. But as it is today, they should not be adding to their already massive debt piles for an increase in the speed of a train.

baltimore deserves nothing better than the MARK, also lol if anyone in japan thinks they can get an accurate construction quotes from maryland planners. if they think it should cost 8 billion it will easily cost 4 times that.

Oh, I see! Another entitlement for the rich!

We can't add more to the debt, or else the country will fail, so we should reject this and just survive on our current, crumbling infrastructure.

@hoola: I fail to see how it wouldn't be worth it to go from Baltimore to D.C. in 15 minutes. For commuters and businesses, that is huge, and the Baltimore-Washington metropolitan area is among the largest and wealthiest in America with known traffic problems. The "reliable" mode of transportation you speak of consist of outdated and old trains that waste way more money to maintain in the long run. I don't even need to mention the pollution caused from idling cars on the freeway. Maglev trains are famous for having low maintenance and ongoing cost and they're safer with only two significant incidents since 1991, both attributed to human error. You should read up on these trains and see incredible they are. Besides, the MTA is already in the process of looking to expand their transit system and going this route makes the most sense.

Sorry, I just completely disagree with your view. The American government has never stifled technological innovation for the sake of "fairness" (more of these systems would pop up if the first became successful and I'm sure the Feds would help out there, too) and there's no reason why they should start now. There are plenty of programs and services that aren't used by most of Americans, why should this be any different? The Federal government helping to fund a worthwhile system that could potentially revolutionize the lives of millions of Americans makes way a lot of sense to me than a lot of other stuff they spend money on. I know I would be perfectly fine if my government created a line connecting Quebec City and Montreal.