James Cameron was high on Ectasy when he wrote Terminator 2

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#1  Edited By warmblur
Member since 2017 • 7664 Posts

https://www.ign.com/articles/terminator-2-john-connor-james-cameron

As Cameron tells it, he was quite high when he conceived of John Connor, who is an unborn child in the original film and a snarky 90s kid in the sequel. Cameron remembers, "I remember sitting there once, high on [ecstasy], writing notes for Terminator, and I was struck by Sting’s song, that, 'I hope the Russians love their children too.' And I thought, 'You know what? The idea of a nuclear war is just so antithetical to life itself.' That’s where the kid came from."

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#2 Poarstman
Member since 2013 • 177 Posts

some of the best ideas come from being hopped up...what a surprise

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#3  Edited By warmblur
Member since 2017 • 7664 Posts

@poarstman said:

some of the best ideas come from being hopped up...what a surprise

Absolutely

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#4  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 46278 Posts

I thought Edward Furlong was very good in Terminator 2 both as an actor and character. He develops into the hero naturally, as opposed to being "great" from the start. Which would result in a very boring character.

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#5 JustPlainLucas
Member since 2002 • 80134 Posts

I work in a library. Seeing the vast amount of crazy ideas in picture books, I'd be surprised if half of the authors weren't on something when they were writing/drawing them.

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#6  Edited By mrbojangles25  Online
Member since 2005 • 50539 Posts

That explains why it is so great.

.

...The idea of a nuclear war is just so antithetical to life itself....

Most obvious statement ever stated lol

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#7 mrbojangles25  Online
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@uninspiredcup said:

I thought Edward Furlong was very good in Terminator 2 both as an actor and character. He develops into the hero naturally, as opposed to being "great" from the start. Which would result in a very boring character.

You mean the movie wouldn't be as good if he, a bratty 90's mall rat, was able to just pick up a weapon he was completely unfamiliar with and completely ruin an enemy that was programmed and trained since inception to destroy?

Hmmmm....

No but on a serious note, I really liked how when they were driving away, they had him reloading. Like they weren't all "Hey let's give this kid a gun and let him shoot this super deadly cyborg liquid metal dude, that'd look super kewwwlll bro". No they're like "No, he is a kid. He'd probably hit himself in the face with the gun, that's a 1911 it has a lot of kick." So they just put him in the back of the seat and had him pass clips of ammo to his mom.

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#8  Edited By uninspiredcup
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@mrbojangles25: Yes. It's established in the movie before his mother went to the nut-house she prepared him with training. But he doesn't turn into Rambo.

His mother mental ill, training him for the apocalypse and being thrust to step-parents who hate his ass is like, a logical reason he's a delinquent rather than just having him be a prick for the sake of it.

He doesn't really come into being blasting people, but eventually going from a passive role to taking command of his mother as she becomes increasingly weary and unstable, to the point of literally picking her up and hauling her around, similar to her role in the first movie.

The idea, further, enforced by him imprinting lessons about humanity to the blank slate Terminator similar to the Iron Giant.

Basically seeing him turn into a general.

Edit - Come to think of it, he kind of gets "Rey'd" as well in Dark Fate.

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#9  Edited By PSP107
Member since 2007 • 18104 Posts

@mrbojangles25:

How did the mom go from a defenseless lady from the 1st movie to a chick you don't want to mess with in the 2nd movie?

@uninspiredcup:

Who trained her?

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#10 mrbojangles25  Online
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@PSP107 said:

@mrbojangles25:

How did the mom go from a defenseless lady from the 1st movie to a chick you don't want to mess with in the 2nd movie?

In Terminator? I think she hooked up with some badass hombres.

But the beauty of it is that she went through a baptism of fire first. She was this damsel in distress at first. She was rescued by this knight in shining armor. She was swept off her feet. Knocked up. "oh save me save me." Then reality sets in and suddenly that need to fight for something real forces her to seek out training, arms, and so on.

Sarah Connor is in so many ways the prototypical female action hero of the modern era and, again in so many ways, unrivaled because so many modern heroines are just Mary Sues.

Any struggle a female has to endure is perceived as weakness, and any weakness can be perceived as criticism of the female gender, so therefore movie studios don't want to do that to female characters, so they don't. Therefore females action heroes are just asskickers right out the gate. It's why as @uninspiredcup said Rey made for such a boring character. I would also like to nominate Katpiss Evergreen from the Hunger Games (though tbh I think she has a nice attitude, despite being a boring character).

It's also why Daenerys Targaryen was so popular. Little blond girl, sold to big horse man as a princess, woe is me, grows up to conquer nations and rides dragon and burns armies to ashes after enduring hardship and torture. What's not to love? Except Emilia Clarke's mediocre acting, I mean.

This article explains it well.

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#11 PSP107
Member since 2007 • 18104 Posts

@mrbojangles25:

So she didn't want to play a waitress again?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YMi3Md6QijQ

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#12  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 46278 Posts

@PSP107: As the video mentions, this was before the story was penned, a direction they wanted to go for.

Returning to a waitress role after the original character development and ending would make little sense, effectively be an unnatural reset button.

Becoming militaristic, increasingly unstable, having her son removed and deemed mentally ill, with John disavowing her is a far more realistic progression.

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#13 GoldenElementXL
Member since 2016 • 5990 Posts

Well he must have been on something better when he wrote the first film. T1>T2. Special effects are all T2 has going for it. And HD/4K kinda ruined some of that.

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#14 PSP107
Member since 2007 • 18104 Posts

@uninspiredcup: "Becoming militaristic, increasingly unstable, having her son removed and deemed mentally ill"

I can buy the mentally ill but not the military veteran.

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#15 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 46278 Posts

@PSP107: Well, the time span between T1/2 is what? 14-15 years? Let's say she gets put in a mental hospital for 3-4 years. Still a great deal of time to train.

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#16 palasta
Member since 2017 • 411 Posts

@poarstman: Then why does Hollywood produce so much shit these days? You dont wanna tell me they all gone abstinent...

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#17 PSP107
Member since 2007 • 18104 Posts

@uninspiredcup: " Let's say she gets put in a mental hospital for 3-4 years. Still a great deal of time to train."

How can one train themselves to be a military expert?

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#18  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 46278 Posts

@PSP107: Presumably learning fire-arms, self-education, trained by other people?

Pretty sure the film indicates (whose name I can't recall) the Latino fellows she comes across are the people she trained with.

In real life, there are militaristic anti-government groups who have compound like settlements.

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#19  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 16246 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:
@PSP107 said:

@mrbojangles25:

How did the mom go from a defenseless lady from the 1st movie to a chick you don't want to mess with in the 2nd movie?

In Terminator? I think she hooked up with some badass hombres.

But the beauty of it is that she went through a baptism of fire first. She was this damsel in distress at first. She was rescued by this knight in shining armor. She was swept off her feet. Knocked up. "oh save me save me." Then reality sets in and suddenly that need to fight for something real forces her to seek out training, arms, and so on.

Sarah Connor is in so many ways the prototypical female action hero of the modern era and, again in so many ways, unrivaled because so many modern heroines are just Mary Sues.

Any struggle a female has to endure is perceived as weakness, and any weakness can be perceived as criticism of the female gender, so therefore movie studios don't want to do that to female characters, so they don't. Therefore females action heroes are just asskickers right out the gate. It's why as @uninspiredcup said Rey made for such a boring character. I would also like to nominate Katpiss Evergreen from the Hunger Games (though tbh I think she has a nice attitude, despite being a boring character).

It's also why Daenerys Targaryen was so popular. Little blond girl, sold to big horse man as a princess, woe is me, grows up to conquer nations and rides dragon and burns armies to ashes after enduring hardship and torture. What's not to love? Except Emilia Clarke's mediocre acting, I mean.

This article explains it well.

Yeah, agreed, the problem with writing well-developed and compelling characters is that the conveyance of strength and power necessitates the exposure of weakness and vulnerability….things Hollywood are incredibly reticent to touch lest it be construed as sexist or politically undesirable in an environment where gender delineations are being obfuscated and/or conflated. Except it IS sexist in the implicit notion women are so incapable of bearing the burden of weakness they must be written without it or in the stereotypical framework of what is traditionally viewed as a powerful male.

What I love about Cameron’s writing is that he finds exceptionalism in the mundane.…neither Ripley nor Sarah are exceptional.…and he doesn’t shy away from their weaknesses. Instead he uses them to manifest their strengths. He’s also brilliant in including maternal underpinnings in the empowerment of his characters. Aliens (Newt), Terminator (John). Both were largely driven and given strength not necessarily all by the traits of their character, but by their maternalistic instinct to protect. Of course now it’s considered sexist to write females in any way that demonstrates the potency of maternity…..because then, they’re only the “exploited tools of the patriarchy” or some such feminist nonsense. But it’s telling that some of the most hardened (and beloved) heroines in cinema are so because they not only demonstrate weakness, but because they hone in on appreciating and valuing motherhood.

On a side note: I’m not sure if it was intended or a brilliant auto-correct….but “Katpiss Evergreen” has to be up there with one of the more amusing takes on a character’s name I've come across, thanks. 😂

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#20 comp_atkins
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@mrbojangles25 said:
@PSP107 said:

@mrbojangles25:

How did the mom go from a defenseless lady from the 1st movie to a chick you don't want to mess with in the 2nd movie?

In Terminator? I think she hooked up with some badass hombres.

But the beauty of it is that she went through a baptism of fire first. She was this damsel in distress at first. She was rescued by this knight in shining armor. She was swept off her feet. Knocked up. "oh save me save me." Then reality sets in and suddenly that need to fight for something real forces her to seek out training, arms, and so on.

Sarah Connor is in so many ways the prototypical female action hero of the modern era and, again in so many ways, unrivaled because so many modern heroines are just Mary Sues.

Any struggle a female has to endure is perceived as weakness, and any weakness can be perceived as criticism of the female gender, so therefore movie studios don't want to do that to female characters, so they don't. Therefore females action heroes are just asskickers right out the gate. It's why as @uninspiredcup said Rey made for such a boring character. I would also like to nominate Katpiss Evergreen from the Hunger Games (though tbh I think she has a nice attitude, despite being a boring character).

It's also why Daenerys Targaryen was so popular. Little blond girl, sold to big horse man as a princess, woe is me, grows up to conquer nations and rides dragon and burns armies to ashes after enduring hardship and torture. What's not to love? Except Emilia Clarke's mediocre acting, I mean.

This article explains it well.

Loading Video...

yuppers

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#21  Edited By judaspete
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@comp_atkins: @uninspiredcup: I actually thought Rey and Ben were the more interesting parts of Episode 7, being the one area they tried something different from Episode 4. Ben starts out like a boss, but we soon find out he's just brat with power. Then we start to see he's a conflicted villain trying to mask his self-doubt with over the-top-rage outbursts.

TLJ really pulls off the mask (Haha *snort*) and shows how lonely he is how Snoke uses his feelings of inadequacy to manipulate him. In fact I get the sense Snoke chose both Hux and Ben not for their competence, but for how easily manipulated they are. He constantly puts them down, berates them, acts like they should be greatfull he keeps them around at all. It's heartbreaking if you actually stop and think about it. This is part of why I say TLJ will be the most respected of the ST, once some Dave Filioni type breaks it down and overanalyzes it for the YouTubers.

Now Rey, I've enjoyed plenty of movies about some guy who starts out awesome, and just continues to be that way, Die Hard, James Bond, any Tom Clancy character. If "because he's a cop" is a good enough explanation, then I say "because she grew up alone on a harsh desert planet" explains Rey's abilities well enough. I get the arguments she is overpowered, but I don't agree she has no interesting arc going on. Rey is already competent but confidence. So she latches on to anyone she thinks might give her a place in the world. Waiting for her parents who are long gone, latching on Han, then Luke, then looking back for her parents again. TLJ had her finally move past that, largely thanks to Ben, and set her up to find her own way forward in Episode 9. But RoS messed all that up trying way too hard to please the fandom menace.

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#23  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 46278 Posts

@judaspete: Die Hard and James Bond are awesome because of their character traits. They have charisma in dire situations. And go from weak positions to incremental ones of power.

Arguably the best (and one I would agree with) Bond film is Skyfall.

It jumps the fourth wall incorporating the reality that Bond has been around for a very long time in a world that has modernized and changed.

He's old, not what he once was, and seems antiquated. He fails tests, accidentally drops the man he was supposed to interrogate off the roof. Shakes uncontrollably during a farce duel and returns his painful Scottish roots in order to effectively remove the modern world.

His opposition, Raoul Silva is by design, modern and at the top of his game. Utilizing weaponry alien to Bond.

M is mother figure for both. Raoul Silva rejected, ego run mock, and Bond, someone she has blind faith in because of his character regardless of his ailing body.

At the end of the film, it literally takes him to his parents grave where his living mother figure, dying acknowledges him as her legacy, overcoming Raoul Silva by confronting his roots prior to the modern world.

Rey by comparison, has absolutely no charisma. As a character, she's a brick. It's a paint by numbers recreation of Luke, without what made Luke a compelling character. Or Ahsoka, Or Ezra for the matter.

These characters actively fail or develop in compelling ways.

In the case of Kylo Ren being the brat, Anakin comes to mind.

The difference is, Anakin doesn't start off as a prick, he develops into one by A) The Jedi Order being shitty and B) Palpatine grooming him, all of which we see.

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Regardless of what people think of The Prequels, there is a A-B developed downfall of the character. George Lucas has a set path.

We don't really see any of this with Kylo Ren. Nor is he particularly intimidating as a villain. He's basically a space incel, watching Alex Jones and The Quartering between posing with his mask in front of the mirror.

More pathetic, and basically left with nothing burger Snoke as wanna-be low rent Emporer, or low rent Emporer because audience recognize thing.

Like, suppose to give a shit he kills Han. But they are never on-screen together or develop, other than when he's doing the stabby stabby and Harrison Ford looks like he's shat himself.

I get the idea of what they are trying to do, the reverse of Jedi training where he must relinquish his past. But he's already a murdering asshole prior to this. You need to show some good first, to make me give a shit.

A lot of people hate these movies for political reasons, weirdo right-wingers complaining "womans" and other just praising it, because "womans".

Just a shit character. *shrug*

Movies in general, just, feel soulless as shit. Pretty screensavers. Can forgive a lot of stuff in movies if they at least make you feel something. Just, nothing there. IDK. If people enjoy them, great. But take shit like the Prequels or the animated spinoffs over these in a heartbeat.

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#24 comp_atkins
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@judaspete said:

@comp_atkins: @uninspiredcup: I actually thought Rey and Ben were the more interesting parts of Episode 7, being the one area they tried something different from Episode 4. Ben starts out like a boss, but we soon find out he's just brat with power. Then we start to see he's a conflicted villain trying to mask his self-doubt with over the-top-rage outbursts.

TLJ really pulls off the mask (Haha *snort*) and shows how lonely he is how Snoke uses his feelings of inadequacy to manipulate him. In fact I get the sense Snoke chose both Hux and Ben not for their competence, but for how easily manipulated they are. He constantly puts them down, berates them, acts like they should be greatfull he keeps them around at all. It's heartbreaking if you actually stop and think about it. This is part of why I say TLJ will be the most respected of the ST, once some Dave Filioni type breaks it down and overanalyzes it for the YouTubers.

Now Rey, I've enjoyed plenty of movies about some guy who starts out awesome, and just continues to be that way, Die Hard, James Bond, any Tom Clancy character. If "because he's a cop" is a good enough explanation, then I say "because she grew up alone on a harsh desert planet" explains Rey's abilities well enough. I get the arguments she is overpowered, but I don't agree she has no interesting arc going on. Rey is already competent but confidence. So she latches on to anyone she thinks might give her a place in the world. Waiting for her parents who are long gone, latching on Han, then Luke, then looking back for her parents again. TLJ had her finally move past that, largely thanks to Ben, and set her up to find her own way forward in Episode 9. But RoS messed all that up trying way too hard to please the fandom menace.

the problem with rey is that they established in 6 films already that the force takes time and training to master. that is an established rule of the sw universe.

to have someone come alone and be like "nope, i'm just going to be naturally awesome at everything because reasons" is jarring to say the least.

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#25 judaspete
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@comp_atkins: Dude, Anakin could see the future and blow up capital ships by accident "because the force" in Episode one. He was the only human with fast enough reflexes to fly a pod racer, and he built robots for fun because he just naturally knew how things worked. The only difference with Rey is she also knew how to fight, and wasn't 8 years old.

I can understand people saying she wasn't an interesting character, but nothing about her breaks cannon. Plus, I can't get behind this idea that force sensitive people don't notice it's there until someone tells them. Like with any other skill, it's always better to have a teacher, but there will still be a few who are naturally gifted.

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#26 judaspete
Member since 2005 • 4879 Posts

@uninspiredcup: Sorry, I was talking pre-Craig Bond in my post. The new movies made a point of giving him some faults, to the point they kept repeating "this 007 makes mistakes sometimes" in the press releases leading up to Casino Royale. I think that was a good move, but still enjoy the old takes on the character as well.

I also agree the SW prequels have a good story to tell, and would even argue that Episode 3 is a genuinely good movie despite it's flaws, but it's all poorly made. The situation is hard to take seriously when the characters keep awkwardly telling the audience what they are feeling, through actors that look more confused than anything else. The sequels have the opposite problem in that the filmmaking exceptionally well done, but the overall story being told keeps getting messier. ST is like listening to Harry Dresden books read by Ian McKellen, and the PT is like hearing Lord of the Rings read by Ben Stine. Bad story told well vs good story told poorly.

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#27 Speeny
Member since 2018 • 2968 Posts

Haven't watched that movie in years, but I do remember enjoying it lol.

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#28 Peasly
Member since 2004 • 454 Posts
@JustPlainLucas said:

I work in a library. Seeing the vast amount of crazy ideas in picture books, I'd be surprised if half of the authors weren't on something when they were writing/drawing them.

I agree with you there. Makes you wonder how many other great books/films we've read/seen over the years that have been helped along by 'substances'..!!